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Chris J
03-26-2008, 10:51 PM
I posted this on the landscape forum, but I guess I'll put it here as well in case any new guys wander in looking for info:

So here's the deal. I've bought a new home that has a 1/2 acre lot, and large back yard. Right now the back is a blank slate with no plants or anything except grass. Just a square piece of land. Being in the landscape lighting business, I'm wondering if any of you seasoned landscape designers might be willing to trade designs. I'll provide pictures of the yard, and you provide a CAD drawing of a detailed landscape plan. In return, I will help you on your next job that involves lighting; from fixture selection to placement to wiring design and setup. I'll also provide my personal phone number to assist you during the processs. I'll even help you sell it! If you are interested, please contact me via PM or through my website (you should be going to my website so you will know you are in good hands).
Let me know if you wanna do some horse trading, but please do not respond if you're not on top of your game. I do quality work, and that is what I want for my yard as well.

Thanks,

NightScenes
03-26-2008, 10:55 PM
You know Chris, I trade out lighting for landscaping on my place. I have a landscaper who has put in some wonderful landscaping at my home and I illuminated his home. He came back and did a boat load more landscaping at my home and now I'm lighting his father's home.

Do you have anyone there who might want to work something like that out with you?

Chris J
03-26-2008, 11:01 PM
I'm going to make some calls in the next few days to see if I can find someone. I don't have any "real good" relationships with quality landscape designers, so this might be a good opportunity to make some new friends.

klkanders
03-26-2008, 11:04 PM
Chris I would help ya just to help ya but I dont know a palm tree from a telephone pole. Ok I'm not that bad. But you are in a way different zone buddy ( the twilight zone :) ) so I wouldnt be much help I'm afraid. I do applaud you for the idea tho and I hope you get a solid taker on your offer. Plz keep us updated with pics of before and after if you would.
I will trade you my weather for yours......all the snow was pretty much gone but tonight we are gettin 4 - 8" of wet snow. :(

Keith

Chris J
03-26-2008, 11:07 PM
Yuck! I was actually sweating my butt off today! 80 degrees tomorrow, but fortunately the job we have lined up is a small one. Geez, listen to me. I'm already complaining about 80 degrees!
Actually, I wouldn't need too much help with the actual trees/plants. I'm looking more for a concept if you will. I'll get some pictures once I move in next week. All I need is a layout. The plan could say something like "tall bushy tree here", "low ground cover here", "paver walkways here", glorious water feature with 12' falls, koi pond, hammock area, fire pit area, tiki hut/bar, summer kitchen here. I want this place to be bad to the bone! I intend on raising the value of the surrounding homes by 50k in two months! Weekly lighting demos at my place of course, complete with BBQ cookout and drinks for all! I think that would actually be a tax deduction as well? hmmmm......

The Lighting Geek
03-26-2008, 11:13 PM
Chris, contact your local chapter of the Association of Professional Landscape Designers or APLD. It is a worldwide organization and there is most likely a chapter near you. I am on the board for the Sacramento chapter and it is a great group to network with. You might find a very good designer who is looking to improve thier understanding of Landscape Lighting. I have found it to be invaluable and have helped many landscape designers who have in return referred me for lighting. Anyone can PM me for info.

Chris J
03-26-2008, 11:22 PM
Tommy, I meant to tell you that I met a guy from cali the other day who knew you. I was doing a rework of his ex-wife's place in Ponte Vedra, and he happened to be in town. His name escapes me at the moment, but he does some incredible work with artificial stone and morter as he creates pools and water features. Know who I'm talking about? Kind of a short guy, slim/in shape, real short hair (balding). He's looking to move to my area and was picking my brain for area info. Hope to hook up with him if him comes this way.

Pro-Scapes
03-26-2008, 11:30 PM
I might be able to help ya some chris just email me some photos.

The Lighting Geek
03-26-2008, 11:31 PM
You just described everyone I know! LOL Nobody comes to mind but if you get a name let me know. I actually have people come to table at restaurants and ask me if I am 'The Lighting Geek' when I have my truck in the parking lot. He could be one of them? or one the dozens of people who honk thier horn at me because of my name..LOL I just made it worse by getting a Lic plate 'GEEKSTR' ....my friends tell me I need to seek help...LOL

klkanders
03-26-2008, 11:46 PM
Tommy u are hilarious! I wish we could get some kind of a conference call going where anyone who wanted could jump on. Kinda a rountable thing. Is this possible? We could get Chris's landscape figured out between the laughs and stories!

Keith

pete scalia
03-27-2008, 01:42 AM
You just described everyone I know! LOL Nobody comes to mind but if you get a name let me know. I actually have people come to table at restaurants and ask me if I am 'The Lighting Geek' when I have my truck in the parking lot. He could be one of them? or one the dozens of people who honk thier horn at me because of my name..LOL I just made it worse by getting a Lic plate 'GEEKSTR' ....my friends tell me I need to seek help...LOL

Now if only you could win over eden lights' heart.

Lite4
03-27-2008, 03:45 AM
Chris, I am an LA. I have been designing for many years now. Send me some photos and a "plot plan" if you have one (a plan of the layout of the house on the lot with dimensions.) I will get some feedback from you about some particulars and then I can email you back a CAD plan of your yard. with hardscape, plants, and incidentals. PM me if you want me to help.

Chris J
03-27-2008, 06:51 AM
Sounds great Tim. Got a bunch of packing to do this weekend, but I'll send you some pics once I get moved in. I'll also post the pics here for some additional brain storming and even lighting ideas. Thanks!

Mike M
03-27-2008, 08:16 AM
glorious water feature with 12' falls, koi pond, hammock area, fire pit area, tiki hut/bar, summer kitchen here. I want this place to be bad to the bone!

Don't think for a second that Chris is kidding.

...Weekly lighting demos at my place of course, complete with BBQ cookout and drinks for all! I think that would actually be a tax deduction as well? hmmmm......

Chris did you see that article in Landscape or Lawn & Landscape this month about the landscaper who uses his yard, complete with Sinatra music, as a demo for his landscape biz?

Sounds like you are figuring out a way to do demo's without all the BS.

If you don't find a good trade on deigns, consider this. You still have to buy the plants and dig the holes. If you just go to an awesome landscape design co. in Jacksonville, one that is weak on lighting, you could just buy it outright and develop a good referral source/work relationship.

Also, I read somewhere that not only is it a tax write-off, but FL will give you a tax break when you entertain neighboring out-of-staters with steak parties and the like.

JoeyD
03-27-2008, 01:10 PM
Tommy u are hilarious! I wish we could get some kind of a conference call going where anyone who wanted could jump on. Kinda a rountable thing. Is this possible? We could get Chris's landscape figured out between the laughs and stories!

Keith


If you were serious I could put this togeather. I would love to do this so everyone could openly discuss verbally topics and ask questions to one another. I would be happy to moderate or one of you could. I could provide the conference number and what not. Let me know!

Joey D.

Chris J
08-27-2008, 11:11 PM
Chris, I am an LA. I have been designing for many years now. Send me some photos and a "plot plan" if you have one (a plan of the layout of the house on the lot with dimensions.) I will get some feedback from you about some particulars and then I can email you back a CAD plan of your yard. with hardscape, plants, and incidentals. PM me if you want me to help.

OK! We went this route with no results after 5-6 months worth of correspondence. I've been depending on Mr. Tim for quite a while now, yet he has let me down miserably. I almost wish he would have never volunteered because now I'm 6 months down the road with no plan "in hand"!
So, instead of asking for any more help from this forum I intend on recruiting help locally. Floridians seem to keep their word a little better than others here. If anyone else would like to give some suggestions, I'm all ears. I know a lot of you guys have a background in landscape design, so I would love to have your opinion on a job that I'm being forced to do myself!!!

Thanks again Tim Ryan, Firefly Professional Lighting. Your word has gone a long way with me pal.

Pro-Scapes
08-27-2008, 11:20 PM
tims not a bad guy and a good designer.

Anyways. I offered to help you this winter. Gotta see where this hurricane goes tho. People are already hording supplies and gas.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
08-27-2008, 11:38 PM
Just a thought Chris... you know, perhaps Tim got a little bit busy with his real job this summer, you know the one he gets PAID to do? That might take first priority over a freebie.

Don't be so harsh on the guy... We all have busy lives to lead.

Of course in the worst case, you might actually have to pay someone to do the design... imagine that!

Chris J
08-28-2008, 12:22 AM
Just a thought Chris... you know, perhaps Tim got a little bit busy with his real job this summer, you know the one he gets PAID to do? That might take first priority over a freebie.

Don't be so harsh on the guy... We all have busy lives to lead.

Of course in the worst case, you might actually have to pay someone to do the design... imagine that!

You're getting pretty good at being WRONG! After several months with no response, I offered to pay him a significant wage. Also, he left his other job a long time ago and now he does lighting only. Even if he were so busy to not find the time to put a simple landscape design together, he could have said so. I don't mind being put off due to unforseen circumstances, but there is no freakin reason that I should have to wait 6 months for an initial plan.
As I told him via PM, if you don't have the time to do it, just say so. Instead, I got a bunch of lip service and a promise that it will be here in a couple of days (over and over). I don't have the patience for that kind of crap. I'm a guy that lives by the words of my father (who would be an old guy if he were still here). You may conduct your business this way, and I don't care. But for me, my word is my badge. When I say I'm going to do something for someone, I DO IT! Maybe you guys don't put that much emphasis on integrity, do you Mr. Integra?
Does that answer your question, Jack?

David Gretzmier
08-28-2008, 12:28 AM
This forum is not always the best place to seek and get help. I remember asking for help on my last marketing plan, and I got...very little. I tend to post and give whatever help I can to pretty much everyone, but not everyone else is the same. I will say this, when I commit to do something for someone, free or not, 99% of the time I do it. I'd say 99% of my customers and friends would agree. :)

Chris J
08-28-2008, 12:44 AM
This forum is not always the best place to seek and get help. I remember asking for help on my last marketing plan, and I got...very little. I tend to post and give whatever help I can to pretty much everyone, but not everyone else is the same. I will say this, when I commit to do something for someone, free or not, 99% of the time I do it. I'd say 99% of my customers and friends would agree. :)

Amen to that Mr. Gretzimier. Your word shold be all that matters.

irrig8r
08-28-2008, 02:35 AM
Seems to be a common enough place for some of us to loose our tempers though, right Chris?

TPnTX
08-28-2008, 08:47 AM
I just went through a similar situation except maybe the other way around. This guy I know has sent me a few jobs over the last couple of years. So when it was time to landscape his yard he asked for my help. In return he would promote me to his neighbors etc... I agreed. Then I got slammed this spring all the way into the summer. I never blew him off or made a bunch promises. Instead I instructed him how to rip out his old landscape and move in some new bedding soil cleaning the slate for me to come in and landscape it.

Then it got hot, real hot. Then it started to rain. so on and so on. He was blowing my phone up. So we decided to wait for the fall.

Here comes my point to the story.

Recently he a new job and the house is going on the market because he's relocating. He was freaking out that he had no landscape. I dropped what I was doing, totally screwing up my schedule. Two jobs comming to a halt. I drew up a design, I went to the nursery and pickout the plants, I delivered the plants and several yards of mulch and landscaped his home. Totally messed up my week but I did it anyway. BECAUSE I GAVE MY WORD. Which sometime is all have.

Now had I known before what I know now about how little this guy appreciates things. I would have thrown in a row of boxwoods and 4 hawthorns. Gave him a builders package and been done with it. There are 2 small things I asked in return marketing wise. Cost them nothing but a couple of hours maybe. 3 weeks now, notta. I called him on it yesterday. "Sorry been real busy...". Aren't we all.

Lesson learned? getting into this sort of arrangement almost always turns out wrong. Unless of course you lead a charmed life like Paul :)

punt66
08-28-2008, 09:07 AM
You're getting pretty good at being WRONG! After several months with no response, I offered to pay him a significant wage. Also, he left his other job a long time ago and now he does lighting only. Even if he were so busy to not find the time to put a simple landscape design together, he could have said so. I don't mind being put off due to unforseen circumstances, but there is no freakin reason that I should have to wait 6 months for an initial plan.
As I told him via PM, if you don't have the time to do it, just say so. Instead, I got a bunch of lip service and a promise that it will be here in a couple of days (over and over). I don't have the patience for that kind of crap. I'm a guy that lives by the words of my father (who would be an old guy if he were still here). You may conduct your business this way, and I don't care. But for me, my word is my badge. When I say I'm going to do something for someone, I DO IT! Maybe you guys don't put that much emphasis on integrity, do you Mr. Integra?
Does that answer your question, Jack?


people dont owe you a thing. look at me look at me waaaaaa.

Chris J
08-28-2008, 10:05 AM
Look. I simply asked for a little advise and he offered his assistance. I was very grateful for the offer, so I put my faith in the guy. Because he offered, I have done nothing to the landscape while I await his ideas. Now it's months down the road, and I still have nothing to show for it.
I know it was a generous offer, but don't offer it unless you are going to follow through. That's just doing nothing but wasting my time. You are absolutely correct; people don't owe me anything. But when I tell someone I'm going to do something for them, I do it. As I said earlier, I gave him the option to back out long ago. Instead of doing that, he kept promising that he would do it "shortly." Again, wasting my time.
Furthermore, I don't recall asking for your opinion anyway Punt66!

Dreams To Designs
08-28-2008, 10:33 AM
Chris,

If you are unable to find someone locally, I'd be happy to help you with a design for my standard contractor's hourly rate. Design, consultation, project management and education are all that I do, so I don't get tied up with installations and typical client issues. I have completed a few long distance designs for installers and homeowners, so I do understand much of the logistics. I can also tell you, pencil does not touch paper until cash changes hands. I get a minimum of a third down for all my design work, as often folks don't understand or appreciate quality design work.

With a site plan of your home, lot's of pictures and plent of detail and desires from you and your wife, I'm sure a beautiful landscape design can be created that will result in a landscape you can be proud of and enjoy.

Kirk

Pro-Scapes
08-28-2008, 10:36 AM
kirk has helped me in the past and is great to work with. I will vouch for him on this.

Lite4
08-28-2008, 10:43 AM
Ok, I have responded to Chris via PM and now I will respond publicly. Yes, I offered to help Chris quite a while ago when my design work load was very low. About 2 weeks after that I was approached by a local landscaper who asked me do all of their design work for them since they had just lost their inhouse designer. This has now required me to work lighting all day and some nights as well as hit the computer at night, sometimes until 2 or 3 in the morning to get plans done for their pressing deadlines. These are paying customers which take precedent over all "Charity" work. Now, I have no problem doing charity work, but it does take a back seat to "paying" customers. And Chris, you may have offered at one time to pay for a design but no "handsome" fees were ever discussed. As any designer will tell you, creating a good and functional landscape design is not like just sitting down and typing up an invoice. There is a lot of thought that and visualization that goes into plannning how a space will be utilized and enjoyed. Many revisions will take place to get just the right end result. Now, I have your design pretty much completed (for the second time), since you informed me that your backyard holds water and does not drain well. I completely scrapped the first one and started over with a completely new design to overcome these site challenges and it is pretty much finished other than some notes that needed to be added. However, I no longer feel the desire to help your "charitable cause". When you come to a forum you are generally seeking "free" advice or help. If you had a strict deadline you needed to keep you should have paid a designer locally to help you out instead of soliciting help on a forum. Chris, once again you have demonstrated your ability over the years to lash out at others in a some what malicious and generally discourteous manner only to seemingly make yourself feel better. Even when they have been trying to help you. You just don't get it my friend. Somehow I no longer feel "charitable" toward your cause and will not be forwarding on your drawing. Perhaps you should have taken a lesson from your father about bridling your tongue and not burning bridges.

punt66
08-28-2008, 12:11 PM
Look. I simply asked for a little advise and he offered his assistance. I was very grateful for the offer, so I put my faith in the guy. Because he offered, I have done nothing to the landscape while I await his ideas. Now it's months down the road, and I still have nothing to show for it.
I know it was a generous offer, but don't offer it unless you are going to follow through. That's just doing nothing but wasting my time. You are absolutely correct; people don't owe me anything. But when I tell someone I'm going to do something for them, I do it. As I said earlier, I gave him the option to back out long ago. Instead of doing that, he kept promising that he would do it "shortly." Again, wasting my time.
Furthermore, I don't recall asking for your opinion anyway Punt66!

You sound like a kid who didnt get his way. Move on then. Your a grown up. Take life by the horns and get YOUR project done. You did ask for my opinion when you started a thread on a public forum. If you wanted a private conversation then PM or email. I have and will never rely on somebody else and expect free work.

Mark B
08-28-2008, 12:13 PM
What an interesting thread... Anyone want a cold sam adams or honey moon, shot of patron chilled?

JoeyD
08-28-2008, 12:39 PM
I'll take one................well actually give me about another 8 hours!!

Chris J
08-28-2008, 01:07 PM
This is hard for me as I really want to just hammer some of you right now. Instead, I'm offering up an apology. After driving around this morning feeling like crap for my statements, I realize I was in the wrong for being so harsh. I was very excited about getting this done, and the long wait eventually aggravated me to the point of no return. I have much respect for Tim, and I shouldn't have said the things I did to him over PM or here. Now that you guys have stomped on me sufficiently, I will swallow my pride and simply ask forgiveness.
Tim, I am not expecting you to change your mind about the plans. I will chalk it up as a loss and find some help elsewhere. Thank you for at least trying.

tonyGub
08-28-2008, 01:13 PM
I cant wait to meet you guys in scottsdale next year.

NightLightingFX
08-28-2008, 01:42 PM
Chris,
I LOVE you for who you are, and I appreciate your honesty and willingness to speak your mind. I am also VERY glad you appoligized because, you REALLY needed to check yourself on this one.
~Ned

JoeyD
08-28-2008, 02:02 PM
This is hard for me as I really want to just hammer some of you right now. Instead, I'm offering up an apology. After driving around this morning feeling like crap for my statements, I realize I was in the wrong for being so harsh. I was very excited about getting this done, and the long wait eventually aggravated me to the point of no return. I have much respect for Tim, and I shouldn't have said the things I did to him over PM or here. Now that you guys have stomped on me sufficiently, I will swallow my pride and simply ask forgiveness.
Tim, I am not expecting you to change your mind about the plans. I will chalk it up as a loss and find some help elsewhere. Thank you for at least trying.


Sometimes it's how you resolve an issue that says the most about you and your character. I think we all know your a pull no punches kind of guy, and working for a guy who is exactly like that I have grown to appreciate that type of personality. Although I didnt fully agree with the way you stuck it to Tim here, at the same time I see your frustration. This is a somewhat unique situation here in that one guy really was just trying to help another and in the process some communication and time was lost. But reality is we all make mistakes and are sometimes left in a positon to admit fault and take heat. I know all about that, especially on this forum where I have been called out on things I have said that either were wrong or just plain stupid.

TPnTX
08-28-2008, 09:24 PM
I had a customer come out and jump my azz today. He is an irrational, a.d.d, hdad, ocd, closeted you know what and I am going through one of the most difficult and devastating personal situations you can imagine. So I stood there and took it knowing that any reaction would have been explosive costing me literally thousands of dollars.

After I cooled down I approached and offered a sincere appology for ignoring "youre the boss" on an issue.

He completely ignored my apology and changed the subject.

How do you like that? Chris and Tim you both know how thick skinned you gotta be. Want some advice ? Let it roll.

Chris J
08-28-2008, 09:42 PM
Thanks. I have let it go, but I realize that I made a huge mistake by pounding on Tim. Hopefully he'll find a way to let it be water under the bridge (you know, that water that was supposed to be under the bridge in my back yard?). :laugh: Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

David Gretzmier
08-28-2008, 09:50 PM
I'm glad Chris apologized, but I'll leave it at this-I built a free small retaining wall on last friday night from 5:30 pm to 9pm. why? Because I said I would. I gave up family time and weekend time to keep my word. Giving involves choosing to do something for others OVER something else that benefits yourself. The act of giving also is a self sacrifice, and you don't get to make a determination whether the recipient is "deserving".

Perhaps we should make a rule in the forum to not agree to help each other for anything. That way no one would ever be disappointed when help does not arrive.

Also, I feel if you agree to help someone in a public way...then you accept the consequences of your actions publically if you do not follow through. Reputation is built by promises and actions.

I have told my 11, 5, and 4 year old and it is same for adults. There are two lists of people in your head. the folks you can count on, and the folks you can't. two very important things- live your life to be on the list folks can count on, and never give a project to someone on the other list.

punt66
08-28-2008, 10:32 PM
I'm glad Chris apologized, but I'll leave it at this-I built a free small retaining wall on last friday night from 5:30 pm to 9pm. why? Because I said I would. I gave up family time and weekend time to keep my word. Giving involves choosing to do something for others OVER something else that benefits yourself. The act of giving also is a self sacrifice, and you don't get to make a determination whether the recipient is "deserving".

Perhaps we should make a rule in the forum to not agree to help each other for anything. That way no one would ever be disappointed when help does not arrive.

Also, I feel if you agree to help someone in a public way...then you accept the consequences of your actions publically if you do not follow through. Reputation is built by promises and actions.

I have told my 11, 5, and 4 year old and it is same for adults. There are two lists of people in your head. the folks you can count on, and the folks you can't. two very important things- live your life to be on the list folks can count on, and never give a project to someone on the other list.

I dont count on anybody. I work hard and set my life in a direction i want it to go and proud i did without charity. There are needy people out there but they dont need landscape plans. In the past i have installed paver walks, walls, designs etc for friends. The same friends who dont rsvp to party invites and the same friends who didnt visit me in the hospital when i was diagnosed with brain cancer. I will no longer help people because as we witnessed with this thread they usually arnt very thankful. If there is one thing i have learned there is only 2 people you can count on. God and yourself.

punt66
08-28-2008, 10:37 PM
Chris, as i read my last post i realized that can be taken as a dig at you. I didnt mean it that way.

Chris J
08-28-2008, 11:19 PM
Thanks for the clarifiication, but I think just being on this forum and learning from each other would be considered help and/or charity, if you will. We are all here to learn and share ideas, so that in itself is free assistance.

Mark B
08-28-2008, 11:26 PM
Let me ask one more time....Anyone want a COLD sam adams (summer ale), hoegarden, honey moon, magic hat # 9, or a beam bomb, or a shot of chilled patron???? Ya'll have finished yer group hug now lets have some drinks and move on.

It sucks it turned out the way it did, it is water under the bridge. Lets move on.

Dreams To Designs
08-29-2008, 10:30 AM
Chris, I can only speak for myself, I enjoy sharing ideas and technique, but when it comes to work, I want to be paid. I have done more than my share of "free" services, but when I have to sit and draw, research or create materials lists, that is time I should be paid for. Your work is typically done onsite with tangible materials, design is often times esoteric. Design is thoughts and ideas mingled with knowledge and research that is often taken for granted as without an installation, it is just ideas.

I have 3 clients, two of which could be called professionals, that have not paid me for my design work, even though my designs were installed on the projects they asked me to create. They always come up with ridiculous excuses as to why they are not paying, but it comes down to my time and effort put forth with no pay. It hurts me financially, mentally and has created a large distrust for folks requesting my services.

Your apology to Tim was a very stand up thing, and I respect you even more for that. You'd be amazed at how often people think design work should be free. There is a thread in the landscape forum right now illustrating this exact point. I have spoken with Tim a few times and we have exchanged ideas and notes and I very much respect his talents, but I also understand, he like most of us here need to make a living and income takes priority to even our own homes and friends.

Kirk

Mike M
08-29-2008, 05:18 PM
I know Chris watches a lot of the cage-fighting stuff and perhaps he could be one of those guys in the group counseling scene in the Adam Sandler movie anger management, but I know he wasn't looking for free work, he posted a trade in the landscape forum and mentioned it here.

In return, I will help you on your next job that involves lighting; from fixture selection to placement to wiring design and setup. I'll also provide my personal phone number to assist you during the processs. I'll even help you sell it! If you are interested, please contact me via PM or through my website (you should be going to my website so you will know you are in good hands).
Let me know if you wanna do some horse trading, but please do not respond if you're not on top of your game. I do quality work, and that is what I want for my yard as well.

jnewton
08-29-2008, 06:33 PM
All I know is that it takes a pretty decent guy to apologize like that. I have a fair amount of experience apologizing, and I can recognize a humble, sincere apology when I see it. It's kind of disarming, isn't it?
John

klkanders
08-29-2008, 09:42 PM
Thanks Mike. I was thinking the same thing. I read thru all this last night but was too tired and mad to reply then. I just had to say something. I was involved with this post from the beginning. I had to re-read the title after reading thru all the posts. There it was: Wanna Trade?
Why then were the words charity and free brought in to the posts? Chris was wanting to exchange lighting design for landscape design. Is one more valuable than the other? That is up to both parties to establish....not us.
I respect both Tim and Chris for sharing ideas, comments, pictures, advice, etc... and will continue to do so. Much respect on the apology also Chris.

Chris J
08-29-2008, 10:17 PM
Thanks for the kind words guys, but I was the one at fault for the blow-up. The past few posts do explain my frustration as I never wanted a freebie in the beginning of all of this. Kirk's post explains it sufficiently: Design cost time and that is worth money. It's the same in the lighting business. I never want to do a design for free unless there is something in it for me as I know my experience, knowledge and passion are worth a great deal. I know it may sound like a moot point, but I was absoultely going to pay Tim back somehow for his knowledge. In the beginning of this post, I expected to recruit help from someone that knew nothing about lighting, thus my "trade" would have been a good deal for someone. When Tim volunteered, I was thrilled but realized that there was nothing other than money that I could offer. Money is tight right now, and that's the reason I was willing to put forth the labor to accomplish the desisn. I'm happy to see that some of you can see both sides, but I'm still waiting to see if Tim accepts the apology.
Thanks again to all of you that I consider true friends. I know I seem like an azz sometimes, but those of you who know me know the real truth.

Chris J
08-29-2008, 10:54 PM
Having said all of that, I also want to apologize to the rest of you. Some of you have no idea who or what I am, and therefore don't read my sarcasim or humor into my posts. I've said it before, and it will be a continuing problem with this forum: You can't read emotion into web-based posts, so most of the time I've been taken personally when I was actually just joking around. I know I've offended and angered a bunch of people on this site, and for that I am truly sorry. If you attacked me first, then I guess this is not directed at you because I was probably ticked off when I replied and meant every word. For the other 99% of you that have had conflict with me, please don't take it personal. If we ever get a chance to meet, you'll see that I'm a teddy bear with a wacky sense of humor.
By the way sleepy head, love your myspace page. You seem like a really cool kind of guy. Also, if you want some proof of my statements, me and Mike Gambino are once again good friends. As some of you know, he and I had the blow out of all blow outs a while back and were ready to kill each other. After we had a chance to meet and talk at the last conference, we both realize that we are different people than we thought of each other before meeting. It just goes to show that you can't make judgements about a person until you actually meet them. Again, my apology to everyone who has been offended by any of my comments. I come in peace!

TXNSLighting
08-30-2008, 11:02 AM
Having said all of that, I also want to apologize to the rest of you. Some of you have no idea who or what I am, and therefore don't read my sarcasim or humor into my posts. I've said it before, and it will be a continuing problem with this forum: You can't read emotion into web-based posts, so most of the time I've been taken personally when I was actually just joking around. I know I've offended and angered a bunch of people on this site, and for that I am truly sorry. If you attacked me first, then I guess this is not directed at you because I was probably ticked off when I replied and meant every word. For the other 99% of you that have had conflict with me, please don't take it personal. If we ever get a chance to meet, you'll see that I'm a teddy bear with a wacky sense of humor.
By the way sleepy head, love your myspace page. You seem like a really cool kind of guy. Also, if you want some proof of my statements, me and Mike Gambino are once again good friends. As some of you know, he and I had the blow out of all blow outs a while back and were ready to kill each other. After we had a chance to meet and talk at the last conference, we both realize that we are different people than we thought of each other before meeting. It just goes to show that you can't make judgements about a person until you actually meet them. Again, my apology to everyone who has been offended by any of my comments. I come in peace!


Wow never woulda thought you and Gambino would be friends...But good Post Chris i know when i posted my first ever lighting job you ripped me a new one. But i was glad for it. It really has helped out my designing. So i thank you for your Lash outs sometimes! :laugh:

Chris J
08-30-2008, 04:53 PM
Wow never woulda thought you and Gambino would be friends...But good Post Chris i know when i posted my first ever lighting job you ripped me a new one. But i was glad for it. It really has helped out my designing. So i thank you for your Lash outs sometimes! :laugh:

Umm.....your welcome? Just trying to help TXNSLighting. Let me know when I can do it for you again. :rolleyes:

TXNSLighting
08-30-2008, 06:06 PM
Umm.....your welcome? Just trying to help TXNSLighting. Let me know when I can do it for you again. :rolleyes:

Done and done!! ha!

Eden Lights
09-01-2008, 10:50 AM
I'm glad Chris apologized, but I'll leave it at this-I built a free small retaining wall on last friday night from 5:30 pm to 9pm. why? Because I said I would. I gave up family time and weekend time to keep my word. Giving involves choosing to do something for others OVER something else that benefits yourself. The act of giving also is a self sacrifice, and you don't get to make a determination whether the recipient is "deserving".

Perhaps we should make a rule in the forum to not agree to help each other for anything. That way no one would ever be disappointed when help does not arrive.

Also, I feel if you agree to help someone in a public way...then you accept the consequences of your actions publically if you do not follow through. Reputation is built by promises and actions.

I have told my 11, 5, and 4 year old and it is same for adults. There are two lists of people in your head. the folks you can count on, and the folks you can't. two very important things- live your life to be on the list folks can count on, and never give a project to someone on the other list.

Excellent comments, a man is only as good as his word. As I get further and further into this business and life, I say "Yes we can do that" much much less. If you say your going to do something, you should do it. My daughter reminds me jokingly from time to time "Hey lying is a sin"

Chris J
09-01-2008, 10:59 PM
No word from Tim yet. Either he's busy, or he's looking straight down his nose at me at the moment. Hope he responds soon though. I'd like to know if I have a friend still, or another enemy.

Mike M
09-02-2008, 08:10 AM
Send him some cupcakes.

Chris J
09-02-2008, 09:26 AM
What flavor do you suggest? Should I include the candy sprinkles on top, or do you think this would be an overly aggressive approach?

Mike M
09-02-2008, 09:32 AM
Chris, I wouldn't hold back on the rainbow sprinkles. In fact, dump them in the batter so they appear inside, too. I've seen my wife do that trick for my daughters.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
09-02-2008, 01:29 PM
Sprinkles are okay on top I guess, if you are into that kid-candy stuff.

Personally I would go with chocolate chips in the batter, and some on top too.... what the hey, blow the budget!

Lite4
09-02-2008, 01:58 PM
Hey Chris and others here,
Sorry for the delayed response, I have not been around much this weekend. Number one - Chris, Yes I whole heartedly accept your apology. Water off a ducks back. I don't hold grudges, so it's gone. I would also like to publicly apologise for my remarks back to you on a public forum which were inappropriate and hurtful. I should have just let it go! Also and more importantly, I would like to apologise for breaking my word to you on getting you that design in a timely manner. It is no excuse that I got busy and couldn't get right to it. I should have been more upfront with you and telling you I couldn't get it done in time for you instead of just dragging it out. I guess I am too much of a people pleaser and have a hard time saying no. Anyway, I hold no amimosity toward you at all Chris.

Mark B
09-02-2008, 02:13 PM
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping: bite of cupcake :clapping::clapping::clapping: wash it down :drinkup::drinkup::drinkup: :clapping::clapping::clapping:

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
09-02-2008, 02:16 PM
Ahhhh Serenity Now. :)

JoeyD
09-03-2008, 01:47 PM
I want a cup cake? LOL