PDA

View Full Version : Bad Boy...


Danielslawnservice
03-27-2008, 11:57 AM
hey
you guys with this how good is the cut, ride, horsepower??

i was watching some of the media on there site it looks like they do wheelies pretty easily...
looks like fun...

Dan

ranger351w
03-30-2008, 07:11 AM
hey
you guys with this how good is the cut, ride, horsepower??

i was watching some of the media on there site it looks like they do wheelies pretty easily...
looks like fun...

Dan
Wheelies?? If my mower could do wheelies it would scare me to death. what happens on a grade? Yes I know about the right way to mow a grade but stuff happens. sounds dangerous to me.

bigclawn
03-30-2008, 08:09 AM
Just wait---Retrodog will come slobbering in about his BB's-----just wait-----

kjslawn
03-30-2008, 09:01 AM
hey
you guys with this how good is the cut, ride, horsepower??

i was watching some of the media on there site it looks like they do wheelies pretty easily...
looks like fun...

Dan

That sounds professional

tb8100
03-30-2008, 09:05 AM
And....the Bad Boy hating begins (by people who have never seen or driven one).

Mike Blevins
03-30-2008, 09:43 AM
I have driven them. And I didn't like them so I'll get in on it. Nothing like another Badboy advertising thread.

bigclawn
03-30-2008, 09:54 AM
Thank you Mike.

jnova35
03-30-2008, 09:59 AM
i just bought the lightning and i like it. I hope you ask me at the end of the year and i say the same.

wall
03-30-2008, 10:02 AM
I have driven them. And I didn't like them so I'll get in on it. Nothing like another Badboy advertising thread.

What he said.

WREBELMACHINE
03-30-2008, 01:28 PM
Yea more hype about the strongest deck and frame and best price and lighter in weight than anything else! It is good to be sold on your product but some guys just take it way too far!

retrodog
03-30-2008, 02:57 PM
Big C, your right here I go....lol...I won't say much, cause they are already giving me a hard time. I just got my new 31hp Kawasaki with 60" deck and I love it. $8495 retail and they are bulletproof. They will take anything you throw at them, even flipping down the highway @ 70mph....lol (wouldn't recommend though). Ride is awesome with the 4 wheel suspension and Michigan air-seat, Horsepower is unbelievable with the options they offer (they offer a 48" with a 30hp Kohler Command for $6395, we sell quite a few of these), and the cut quality is awesome with their new baffling system. There are many threads on them, just search bb. And yes, they do wheelies, but almost all zt's will if you do it right. Its funny on youtube, there is a guy mid 30's to 40 that took his deck off, laid the camera down by the road, and rode wheelies up and down the road...my wife and I got a kick out of that. The first day I got mine, my wife ran outside and told me to put my helmet on if I was going to mow like that....lol. They definatley have alot more fun factor than my Grasshoppers did...lol. Even the big diesel with the huge counter weight in the front will wheelie if you do it right. To all you haters, the exmark, deere, ferris, dane, etc will wheelie too.....they will find anything to bring negative responses to something they don't get. Just check out for your self and get a demo. The only thing that will be a change for you is the controls are gonna be more touchy than your Exmark, might take a little bit to get used to. BB's have 12cc and 16cc pumps on their lower line mowers, and give you alot more power. Sorry retro haters, I said more than I meant too...lol. Just pm me if you have more questions.

davink
03-30-2008, 03:04 PM
Big C, your right here I go....lol...I won't say much, cause they are already giving me a hard time. I just got my new 31hp Kawasaki with 60" deck and I love it. $8495 retail and they are bulletproof. They will take anything you throw at them, even flipping down the highway @ 70mph....lol (wouldn't recommend though). Ride is awesome with the 4 wheel suspension and Michigan air-seat, Horsepower is unbelievable with the options they offer (they offer a 48" with a 30hp Kohler Command for $6395, we sell quite a few of these), and the cut quality is awesome with their new baffling system. There are many threads on them, just search bb. And yes, they do wheelies, but almost all zt's will if you do it right. Its funny on youtube, there is a guy mid 30's to 40 that took his deck off, laid the camera down by the road, and rode wheelies up and down the road...my wife and I got a kick out of that. The first day I got mine, my wife ran outside and told me to put my helmet on if I was going to mow like that....lol. They definatley have alot more fun factor than my Grasshoppers did...lol. Even the big diesel with the huge counter weight in the front will wheelie if you do it right. To all you haters, the exmark, deere, ferris, dane, etc will wheelie too.....they will find anything to bring negative responses to something they don't get. Just check out for your self and get a demo. The only thing that will be a change for you is the controls are gonna be more touchy than your Exmark, might take a little bit to get used to. BB's have 12cc and 16cc pumps on their lower line mowers, and give you alot more power. Sorry retro haters, I said more than I meant too...lol. Just pm me if you have more questions.

I just had to ask, Can I try shooting my 50cal Desert Eagle at it? I bet I can get a shot into that will make it no good! LOL :laugh::laugh:

ALarsh
03-30-2008, 03:04 PM
How do you know an 08 model is bullet proof? Come on now. They aren't even proven in the contractors hands yet.

bigclawn
03-30-2008, 03:08 PM
Didn't [I tell you he'd come slobbering in! Just can't help himself!

TheOctagon
03-30-2008, 03:13 PM
Didn't [I tell you he'd come slobbering in! Just can't help himself!

I dont understand how he can get criticized so much for loving a product that he both uses and sells. Just his opinion just like each of you have but at least hes talkin up a brand vs just bashing everything.

bigclawn
03-30-2008, 03:15 PM
and talking and talking and talking and talking........on and on and on--give it a rest

TheOctagon
03-30-2008, 03:16 PM
and talking and talking and talking and talking........on and on and on--give it a rest

If people keep asking why wouldnt you keep telling? Its not his fault people keep asking about them.

grassyguy
03-30-2008, 03:22 PM
I use scag right now, but my next mower will proabably be a bad boy. I have researched them and they are very comparable to scag and they are considerably cheaper. My brother in law bought one yesterday and I got to go ride it. 14 mph across his field and it didn't shake me to death like my scag. Nothing is easier to maintain as well. Im not sure about cut yet. There wasnt much to mow yesterday. I am holding out to find out how the cut looks when the grass gets thick and greens up. But so far I really like them.

Happy Frog
03-30-2008, 03:37 PM
Wheelies are for Dummies...
I don't think there is a risk of flipping the front of a Bad Boy over your head unless you really want to.
The operator seat is slightly in front of the rear axle for a reason and it would take a pretty steep hill to flip any of their mower.
IMHO, the Bad Boy are great ZTR's and to be honest with you, I don't think there is actually one real argument against them.
Ask questions like I did and you'll find out that most people bashing them are not saying the whole story.
For instance someone will state something like:
I demoed one of them and they cut like crap.
The real story might be:
I demoed a 2006 model with the old style deck (not fully baffled like the new ones) and cut one of my account at full speed (14 mph) and the cut quality was not as good as my XXX brand ZTR cutting at 9.5 mph max.
Well, guess what: try to cut this account at 9.5 mph with a Bad Boy having the new style deck and then compare the cut quality... :hammerhead:
The fact is that unless you are using a Walker with the deck specific to your grass, under normal circumstances, Bad Boy mowers will leave a cut close enough or better (under same conditions) than any other mower on the market today.
Of course, under special circumstances like high speed, high cut (3"+) and so on, a specific mower may give you a better cut, you just have to demo to make sure. :drinkup:

Happy Frog
03-30-2008, 03:38 PM
How do you know an 08 model is bullet proof? Come on now. They aren't even proven in the contractors hands yet.

Try to shoot one in the back of the deck... :cool2:

retrodog
03-30-2008, 03:56 PM
Try to shoot one in the back of the deck... :cool2:

lol, I might try that with my 26hp and use my nine millimeter just to have a true claim...lol.

tb8100
03-30-2008, 08:02 PM
How do you know an 08 model is bullet proof? Come on now. They aren't even proven in the contractors hands yet.

there hasn't been any significant changes from 2007 to 2008. Couple of different engine options. The addition of proven ZT2800 transaxles on the ZT. Like Happy Frog said, 99% of arguments made against them are uninformed. I mean, what the crap does "I didn't like how it drives" mean? Same pumps and wheel motors as virtually all other commercial mowers.

How many of the Bad Boy haters have actually sat on one and driven one? How many of them have sat on one other than the model sitting at Tractor Supply? Bottom line is, there are lovers and haters of every mower. Demo each and decide for yourself which you like best.

Mike Blevins
03-30-2008, 11:00 PM
I guess my definition of "I didn't like how it drives" is this. The badboy I tried out wasn't at Tractor supply. It was at a Badboy dealer if thats what you want to call it. He stocks one of each type mower and hardly has any parts for service and his service personnel aren't "trained to work on Badboy mowers specifically" like my Scag dealer. How it drives means that I didn't like how they sit or rode on hills,how the hydro controls responded (forward,backward,left turns,right turns, etc.) I also don't think that 90% of the badboy "haters" that post on here are people that don't know what they are talking about. I think that there are some badboy dealers on this website that are trying to sell machines. I also think that there are ALOT better mowers that are out there. Thats why every badboy thread turns out the same way. Two dealers trying to post prices and comparing badboys to everything under the sun trying to sell machines.

kleankutslawn
03-30-2008, 11:13 PM
i have yet to try this mower out.does anyone know who the closest dealer is to me?

Happy Frog
03-30-2008, 11:21 PM
You can search for dealers by zip code on their web site.

ncls
03-31-2008, 12:02 AM
I've got two 60's, both Pups, and one 50" ZT. For my customers/type of work, they are great. My high end clientele, get a Walker rider, with a Lesco walk-behind.

For the money I saved on the Bad Boys, I am one happy camper.

You guys that complain about the Bad Boy need to review your customer mix. If your mowing all high end, perfectly manicured properties, then Bad Boy is not for you.

Bad Boy mowers are geared to a certain type of landscaper.

Some people on this site, try to compare mowers like they are all designed to do the same job. They aren't. Try and compare a Walker, a Bad Boy, and a Dixie Chopper. They all cut grass, but they aren't for the same type of customer.

And no, I'm not a Bad Boy dealer. Because most of my customers are not high end, I'm able to take advantage of Bad Boys low prices and well built machines.

MJB
03-31-2008, 12:57 AM
Let see some pictures of the cut quality . Anyone mulching show us your pics.

kleankutslawn
03-31-2008, 12:59 AM
thanks Happy Frog.why don't bad boys get good reviews on high end properties?

drains
03-31-2008, 02:11 AM
A little something I got at a Gravely dealers showroom a while back.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i74/shmeagol1/Picture002.jpg

bigclawn
03-31-2008, 07:26 AM
Thank you Mike! I share your feelings totally.

ProStreetCamaro
03-31-2008, 08:19 AM
A little something I got at a Gravely dealers showroom a while back.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i74/shmeagol1/Picture002.jpg



Puts things into perspective nicely doesnt it? Heck for that matter cub commercial has a 3 year warranty.

drains
03-31-2008, 09:22 AM
Puts things into perspective nicely doesnt it? Heck for that matter cub commercial has a 3 year warranty.

Yes it does.

Happy Frog
03-31-2008, 11:18 AM
thanks Happy Frog.why don't bad boys get good reviews on high end properties?

Not sure. I have not found many posts on actual cut quality with the new baffled deck and the one I have found are from people comparing 8 or 10 mph cuts with full speed cut (14-15 mph) on the Bad Boy.
I posted some pictures of my rig a little while ago and the property it sits on is a property I started to cut with the mulching kit on (I only bag partialy my residential accounts with the 21").
Although the lawn is not in good shape (too early in the season and no fert/weed control for more than a year or two), the cut still looks pretty good.
Here is the link to them: http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=220908
My take on cut quality is this: if you need top notch cut quality and the customer is willing to pay for it, get a Walker and pay the price for it (slow, expensive equipment). For everything else, Bad Boy is probably the best choice (unless you have the super dupper XXX brand dealer next door who will fix your ZTR before you knew it was broken and will fill your gas tank for free every morning, bla bla bla... you see what I mean...).

Happy Frog
03-31-2008, 11:59 AM
A little something I got at a Gravely dealers showroom a while back.


This is inaccurate and has been discussed on this Forum before.
The Bad Boy web site warranty statement also confuses people as to what their warranty really is.

For the sake of the discussion, here it is with highlights to get a better picture and I added my comments at the end:

For any Bad Boy (except ZT) purchased after January 2006 and used commercially (not rental), the warranty given on their web site is as follow:

Complete Unit
The warranty period is limited to one year from the date of retail purchase on behalf of the original owner of a Bad Boy complete unit. This warranty will provide the cost of repair or replacement (at the discretion of Bad Boy) of the defective part, including labor. This warranty applies in like form to the original retail purchaser of a Bad Boy complete unit used commercially, or for income producing purposes.

Drive Train
The hydrostatic drive components (pumps and wheel motors only), of the Bad Boy complete unit will be warranted for two years from the retail purchase date on behalf of the original owner against defects in materials or workmanship. Labor required to repair or replace components of the hydrostatic drive system will be covered by Bad Boy for the first year and at the unit owner's expense during the second year from the original purchase date.

Deck Spindle Assembly
Parts and labor for the replacement of the complete deck spindle assembly of the Bad Boy complete unit will be warranted for two years from the retail purchase date on behalf of the original owner against defects in materials or workmanship on any machine purchased after January 1, 2006.

Clutch
Parts and labor for the replacement of the clutch of the Bad Boy will be warranted for two years from the retail purchase date on behalf of the original owner against defects in materials or workmanship on any machine purchased after January 1, 2006.

Engine
Engine warranty is provided by the engine manufacturer. Please refer to the engine manufacturer warranty statement included within the ownership materials provided with the unit.

Tires, Blades, Batteries and Belts
Tires and blades are considered to be consumable-wear items, and therefore carry no warranty. Belts are warranted for a period of 90 days against materials or workmanship defects, not for wear or abuse. Batteries are warranted for one year prorated from the retail purchase date against materials or workmanship defects. The battery warranty must be obtained through the battery manufacturer.

My comments: Like most of us, I wish Bad Boy would give a two or three years warranty bumper to bumper statement but they chose to make it more complicated than it needed to be.
The warranty is just that, a warranty. It does not define the quality of the mower itself or its components. Since manufacturers are using the same brands for the major components, we all get the same quality for them anyway.
The fact is that one has always the option to buy a two, three or four years extended warranty covering the entire ZTR for a few hundreds Dollars if he feels the need for it...

retrodog
03-31-2008, 01:06 PM
I like to offer my customers the failsafe warranty, for around 9% of the purchase price of the mower you can get an extra 3 year extended warranty (over the manufacture warranty) that covers pretty much everything. Failsafe is really good at paying us really fast. The only thing you have to pay is taxes and any fluids that have to be replace. Usually comes out to an extra couple of hundred bucks to get this warranty.

Frue
03-31-2008, 01:12 PM
I noticed on the pumps you have to pay labor the second year?

grassyguy
03-31-2008, 01:20 PM
Sure but the biggest expense is the pump itself.

Happy Frog
03-31-2008, 01:28 PM
Like I said, I wish Bad Boy would make it simpler but here it is...
You may ask yourself how often a pump fails in the second year of use? They usually fail in the first few months or after two or three years of heavy use, don't they?
Also, the labor cost to work on the Bad Boy is greatly reduced by the swing away design. Everything is accessible within seconds or a few minutes.
The Failsafe warranty seems a good option on any mower though. :rolleyes:

bigclawn
03-31-2008, 05:17 PM
Thr "failsafe" program, with it's initial cost and deductables is not all that attractive. Th eprices quoted by the dealer usually reflect a 50 to 100% MARKUP OVER ACTUAL COST. Our desler looked into this extensivly several years ago and was not impressed to teh point he felt it was value for value.

tb8100
03-31-2008, 07:25 PM
You guys mention hydro failures, which are possible on any mower, but don't forget, the hydros aren't tucked away underneath the seat or anything. They're out in the open and have 6" fans on top of them as well, not to mention the larger hydro capacity allows them to run cooler. With this configuration, the lower fluid and overall pump temperatures extends the life of the hydro system.

Another thing is that Bad Boy does not have a problem with warranties. They only have two people in the warranty department. Since they run a dealer-direct system, there's no distributor network with warranty departments. These two people are it, and as it stands right now, they don't need more people. Bad Boy is great at running this monstrous business all while minimizing cost (though before somebody says it, I know they need to lend attention to the marketing department...).

That said, I think there's some clarification that needs to be made on warranties. What exactly is a warranty? Sure, it involves a manufacturer standing behind their product for the duration of the warranty term, but does the varying warranty terms throughout the industry mean that manufacturers don't believe in their product as much as the next manufacturer with a longer warranty? Does Scag not believe in their Freedom series mowers because their warranty is a year shorter than Hustler's Fastrak (3 years vs. 4 years)? The answer is, no. Both are good machines for their respective applications.

A warranty is virtually just insurance on the equipment in question. Insurance that covers a premature death on the specified components. When a manufacturer offers a longer warranty, there is a cost involved, not necessarily because something WILL happen, but because something COULD happen. They have to cover their butts, and it only makes sense to do that. When a manufacturer offers a longer warranty, they build it into the cost of the machine. No ifs, ands, or buts. The more things you add to an insurance policy, the more the premium runs (lower deductible, options like theft, collision, uninsured/underinsured, etc.). In this instance, the option is the term, or the length, of the warranty. In which case, why not add a Failsafe extended warranty onto the product and be done with it, should you want the insurance for an additional year, two years, three years, etc.?

Bad Boy is extremely cautious about keeping costs down and it's why they're able to offer so much at each given price point.

Just an FYI, but Bad Boy actually offers a lifetime (parts and labor) warranty on the frame and leading edge of the deck, though it's not in writing. I've discussed it with Bad Boy, and the reason they don't have it in writing is that 99% of the time, claims on the frame will be from abuse such as dropping it off the trailer or other similar situations.

tb8100
03-31-2008, 07:31 PM
Thr "failsafe" program, with it's initial cost and deductables is not all that attractive.

Another year of warranty isn't worth $300? There is no deductible on any Failsafe program. More misinformation.... :hammerhead:


Th eprices quoted by the dealer usually reflect a 50 to 100% MARKUP OVER ACTUAL COST. Our desler looked into this extensivly several years ago and was not impressed to teh point he felt it was value for value.

What's wrong with that? $300 at the retail level is EXTREMELY affordable. Thats a bargain. Did you know when you buy parts at your dealer, there's typically a 100% markup? We dealers are not getting rich, and we have to cover our costs and make a living just as you do in your business. :waving:

tb8100
03-31-2008, 07:35 PM
Sure but the biggest expense is the pump itself.

Hardly. The installation isn't much of anything on these mowers. 1 hour labor or less per side. Show me a mower company that warranties the entire mower including the hydros for 3 years parts and labor. Scag's "Simply the Best" warranty doesn't cover the hydros for more than 2 years parts and labor (except on the Freedom series for residential usage), and they have one of the better warranties in the industry.

Dunn's
03-31-2008, 08:04 PM
You guys mention hydro failures, which are possible on any mower, but don't forget, the hydros aren't tucked away underneath the seat or anything. They're out in the open and have 6" fans on top of them as well, not to mention the larger hydro capacity allows them to run cooler. With this configuration, the lower fluid and overall pump temperatures extends the life of the hydro system.

Another thing is that Bad Boy does not have a problem with warranties. They only have two people in the warranty department. Since they run a dealer-direct system, there's no distributor network with warranty departments. These two people are it, and as it stands right now, they don't need more people. Bad Boy is great at running this monstrous business all while minimizing cost (though before somebody says it, I know they need to lend attention to the marketing department...).

That said, I think there's some clarification that needs to be made on warranties. What exactly is a warranty? Sure, it involves a manufacturer standing behind their product for the duration of the warranty term, but does the varying warranty terms throughout the industry mean that manufacturers don't believe in their product as much as the next manufacturer with a longer warranty? Does Scag not believe in their Freedom series mowers because their warranty is a year shorter than Hustler's Fastrak (3 years vs. 4 years)? The answer is, no. Both are good machines for their respective applications.

A warranty is virtually just insurance on the equipment in question. Insurance that covers a premature death on the specified components. When a manufacturer offers a longer warranty, there is a cost involved, not necessarily because something WILL happen, but because something COULD happen. They have to cover their butts, and it only makes sense to do that. When a manufacturer offers a longer warranty, they build it into the cost of the machine. No ifs, ands, or buts. The more things you add to an insurance policy, the more the premium runs (lower deductible, options like theft, collision, uninsured/underinsured, etc.). In this instance, the option is the term, or the length, of the warranty. In which case, why not add a Failsafe extended warranty onto the product and be done with it, should you want the insurance for an additional year, two years, three years, etc.?

Bad Boy is extremely cautious about keeping costs down and it's why they're able to offer so much at each given price point.

Just an FYI, but Bad Boy actually offers a lifetime (parts and labor) warranty on the frame and leading edge of the deck, though it's not in writing. I've discussed it with Bad Boy, and the reason they don't have it in writing is that 99% of the time, claims on the frame will be from abuse such as dropping it off the trailer or other similar situations.


So if more waranty is always added into the price why does Echo products cost a little less then their counterparts, but have a better warranty.

bigclawn
03-31-2008, 08:54 PM
more slobber

TheOctagon
03-31-2008, 09:32 PM
more slobber

Cant you go hate on some other pages? Ive never seen someone so afraid of change or a new product. Quick stomp the new companies into the ground we cant have competition... Just one company making mowers for 50,000 dollars a piece since they dont have anyone to compete against.

kleankutslawn
03-31-2008, 09:50 PM
not my post but thanks for the info Happy Frog

tb8100
03-31-2008, 10:38 PM
So if more waranty is always added into the price why does Echo products cost a little less then their counterparts, but have a better warranty.

Either the manufacturer, the distributor, or the dealer gets a lower margin. Plain and simple. A warranty is not free for anybody.

tb8100
03-31-2008, 10:41 PM
more slobber

Your posts easily win the "least helpful" award on here. :hammerhead:

Happy Frog
03-31-2008, 10:45 PM
You are welcome.
It's funny how heated these Bad Boy treads gets. :dizzy:
Have you noticed that most people bashing this brand are Scag users?
I guess, when one spend more money for less equipment, it is hard to admit that a Bad Boy may be a good choice... :drinkup:

Happy Frog
03-31-2008, 10:57 PM
Oops, double post (deleted)

dancce
04-01-2008, 01:30 AM
You guys mention hydro failures, which are possible on any mower, but don't forget, the hydros aren't tucked away underneath the seat or anything. They're out in the open and have 6" fans on top of them as well, not to mention the larger hydro capacity allows them to run cooler. With this configuration, the lower fluid and overall pump temperatures extends the life of the hydro system.

Another thing is that Bad Boy does not have a problem with warranties. They only have two people in the warranty department. Since they run a dealer-direct system, there's no distributor network with warranty departments. These two people are it, and as it stands right now, they don't need more people. Bad Boy is great at running this monstrous business all while minimizing cost (though before somebody says it, I know they need to lend attention to the marketing department...).

That said, I think there's some clarification that needs to be made on warranties. What exactly is a warranty? Sure, it involves a manufacturer standing behind their product for the duration of the warranty term, but does the varying warranty terms throughout the industry mean that manufacturers don't believe in their product as much as the next manufacturer with a longer warranty? Does Scag not believe in their Freedom series mowers because their warranty is a year shorter than Hustler's Fastrak (3 years vs. 4 years)? The answer is, no. Both are good machines for their respective applications.

A warranty is virtually just insurance on the equipment in question. Insurance that covers a premature death on the specified components. When a manufacturer offers a longer warranty, there is a cost involved, not necessarily because something WILL happen, but because something COULD happen. They have to cover their butts, and it only makes sense to do that. When a manufacturer offers a longer warranty, they build it into the cost of the machine. No ifs, ands, or buts. The more things you add to an insurance policy, the more the premium runs (lower deductible, options like theft, collision, uninsured/underinsured, etc.). In this instance, the option is the term, or the length, of the warranty. In which case, why not add a Failsafe extended warranty onto the product and be done with it, should you want the insurance for an additional year, two years, three years, etc.?

Bad Boy is extremely cautious about keeping costs down and it's why they're able to offer so much at each given price point.

Just an FYI, but Bad Boy actually offers a lifetime (parts and labor) warranty on the frame and leading edge of the deck, though it's not in writing. I've discussed it with Bad Boy, and the reason they don't have it in writing is that 99% of the time, claims on the frame will be from abuse such as dropping it off the trailer or other similar situations.

You make some really good points here, and I agree with everything you state----with the exception of referring to warrantys as "insurance".
Insurance and warrantys are two different things entirely. Product warrantys are for the express purpose of covering manufacturing defects. Insurance normally covers accidental damage, theft, and vandalism. My experience, as an ag equipment dealer, has been that some customers think that a warranty should cover abuse and/or accidental damage.
In other words, they feel that the manufacturer's warranty should cover any failure of the machine, regardless of the cause, as long as it is within the warranty period.

Yes, I am a Bad Boy dealer-----and this is my first post on this site. I have not seriously been in the Zero Turn Mower business until recently. (Sold some Woods, just because we are a dealer for them---mostly three point tractor attachments).

We have become serious about the mower business with Bad Boy, primarily because of the quality and price of the product-----and the, what I call , "no B.S. warranty".
I seriously looked at Hustler---which I think is a good machine,(not as good as Bad Boy, though)---but all of their "lifetime" B.S. warrantys, to me, are rediculous. All that does for me, as a dealer , is cause potential problems and hard feelings with my customer-----when they accidentally damage their machine and think it should be covered under warranty----when , in fact, their insurance company should have been contacted.

Any manufacturer, that is reputable, and serious about their success, will handle any manufacturing defects, no matter what their printed warranty states.

dancce

ranger351w
04-01-2008, 07:29 AM
Are the ones sold at TSC the same quality as any others or are they cheapened up? I see a couple there that have the 31 hp in them.

ProStreetCamaro
04-01-2008, 08:50 AM
What I want to know is HOW DOES IT CUT?

How long have they been in buisness now? How come I have never seen any pictures of the cut quality? How come I have never seen any videos of the cut quality? Everything I have seen they have been used as a bush hog. Who gives a flying #@$%^ any mower can cut down 2 feet tall junk. I want to see the cut quality plain and simple. If it isnt good im not buying plain and simple. I dont care how much cheaper they are. And dont show me the cut quality of southern turf because any mower can cut that stiff crap they call grass. I want to see the cut quality of fine northern turf fescue. I want to see how well the deck creates vacum to stand up and cut clean the soft limp northern grass. Untill then Bad Boy might as well go out of business as far as I am concerned.

bigclawn
04-01-2008, 08:57 AM
Amen! Well Said!

tb8100
04-01-2008, 11:36 AM
You make some really good points here, and I agree with everything you state----with the exception of referring to warrantys as "insurance".
Insurance and warrantys are two different things entirely. Product warrantys are for the express purpose of covering manufacturing defects. Insurance normally covers accidental damage, theft, and vandalism. My experience, as an ag equipment dealer, has been that some customers think that a warranty should cover abuse and/or accidental damage.
In other words, they feel that the manufacturer's warranty should cover any failure of the machine, regardless of the cause, as long as it is within the warranty period.

Yes, I am a Bad Boy dealer-----and this is my first post on this site. I have not seriously been in the Zero Turn Mower business until recently. (Sold some Woods, just because we are a dealer for them---mostly three point tractor attachments).

We have become serious about the mower business with Bad Boy, primarily because of the quality and price of the product-----and the, what I call , "no B.S. warranty".
I seriously looked at Hustler---which I think is a good machine,(not as good as Bad Boy, though)---but all of their "lifetime" B.S. warrantys, to me, are rediculous. All that does for me, as a dealer , is cause potential problems and hard feelings with my customer-----when they accidentally damage their machine and think it should be covered under warranty----when , in fact, their insurance company should have been contacted.

Any manufacturer, that is reputable, and serious about their success, will handle any manufacturing defects, no matter what their printed warranty states.

dancce

Dancce, you misunderstood my post. I only used the term insurance with regard to protection against premature failure of specified components. When a machine is abused, the resulting failed components don't die prematurely. They've met or exceeded their life cycle, though thanks to the abuse, its not as long as it would have been if the machine was used properly.

Insurance can cover many different types of things. Accidental damage to your equipment, accidental damage to other equipment, theft, etc. A warranty is insurance against defective components on a machine for the given time frame.

That said, welcome to the Bad Boy family. You've picked a good product with a great company that stands behind it. What line of tractors are you carrying? We're also a tractor/mower dealer as well.

tb8100
04-01-2008, 11:43 AM
What I want to know is HOW DOES IT CUT?

How long have they been in buisness now? How come I have never seen any pictures of the cut quality? How come I have never seen any videos of the cut quality? Everything I have seen they have been used as a bush hog. Who gives a flying #@$%^ any mower can cut down 2 feet tall junk. I want to see the cut quality plain and simple. If it isnt good im not buying plain and simple. I dont care how much cheaper they are. And dont show me the cut quality of southern turf because any mower can cut that stiff crap they call grass. I want to see the cut quality of fine northern turf fescue. I want to see how well the deck creates vacum to stand up and cut clean the soft limp northern grass. Untill then Bad Boy might as well go out of business as far as I am concerned.

why don't you freaking demo one instead of getting your panties all in a wad because you don't know how they cut?

jason_2005lawnman
04-01-2008, 11:53 AM
well do you know how they cut ; if not then dont post; i agree until i see real demo of how they cut i will not even look at them; damn, tell i got rained out today; lol

Kalawnsnow
04-01-2008, 11:58 AM
I Have a fleet of bad boy mowers and they are great. The don't bog down and are faster,stronger than any mower on the market.

tb8100
04-01-2008, 12:00 PM
well do you know how they cut ; if not then dont post; i agree until i see real demo of how they cut i will not even look at them; damn, tell i got rained out today; lol

yes I has cut with them and others have as well. There have ben numerous pictures posted of the cut by members, but for some reason that's not good enough.

Tell me again why you won't even look at one til the manufacturer pots pictures or videos of the cut? You're only cheating yourself. Go out and spend some seat time on one and report back.

Happy Frog
04-01-2008, 12:11 PM
What I want to know is HOW DOES IT CUT?

How long have they been in buisness now? How come I have never seen any pictures of the cut quality? How come I have never seen any videos of the cut quality? Everything I have seen they have been used as a bush hog. Who gives a flying #@$%^ any mower can cut down 2 feet tall junk. I want to see the cut quality plain and simple. If it isnt good im not buying plain and simple. I dont care how much cheaper they are. And dont show me the cut quality of southern turf because any mower can cut that stiff crap they call grass. I want to see the cut quality of fine northern turf fescue. I want to see how well the deck creates vacum to stand up and cut clean the soft limp northern grass. Untill then Bad Boy might as well go out of business as far as I am concerned.

You are right, the ability to cut grass properly is the primary reason to buy a ZTR. Like I said before, wheelies are for dummies.
I wish there was some videos available showing the cut of different types of grass as well. I went yesterday on the Scag web site to look at their videos and for some reason, except for a very short segment, they do not show their mowers actually cutting the grass (no clippings coming out). The turf they are showing their mowers on has already been cut. :dizzy:

One thing I noticed, though, is that in the first two seconds of the video showing the Saber Tooth Tiger, the mower is bouncing like crazy on a pretty smooth turf. :laugh:
Check it out: SabreTooth06 (http://www.scag.com/video/SabreTooth06_large.wmv)

This really shows that there is no substitute to demo the machines for ourselves. And if possible, in the same conditions we'll be operating the machines on a daily basis...

tb8100
04-01-2008, 12:14 PM
*I have cut with them

nitro121
04-01-2008, 12:25 PM
I've heard about this for years.....even tried to base my buying decision on it. But honestly....the grass looks the same whether using my huster, murray tractor, or in-laws 15 year old craftsman. As long as the deck is level I have never seen a difference in cut. I know everyone tries to make grass cutting rocket science.....but really, how much of a difference is there. I've never seen it.

If I had bigger properties I'd jump on the Bad Boy 60". Looked at it over the weekend at Tractor Supply. If they come out w/ a 42" for about 3 grand, I'm all over it for my next mower.

Peace

ProStreetCamaro
04-01-2008, 02:47 PM
why don't you freaking demo one instead of getting your panties all in a wad because you don't know how they cut?



If my nearest dealer was closer than 2 hours away I would have before I bought my new Gravely 160 a couple weeks ago. Oh well I dont think I missed out on much and I know it wouldnt have been any cheaper than what I paid for my 160Z. So far this spring the X-Factor deck is really impressing me. :dancing:

ProStreetCamaro
04-01-2008, 02:59 PM
I've heard about this for years.....even tried to base my buying decision on it. But honestly....the grass looks the same whether using my huster, murray tractor, or in-laws 15 year old craftsman. As long as the deck is level I have never seen a difference in cut. I know everyone tries to make grass cutting rocket science.....but really, how much of a difference is there. I've never seen it.

If I had bigger properties I'd jump on the Bad Boy 60". Looked at it over the weekend at Tractor Supply. If they come out w/ a 42" for about 3 grand, I'm all over it for my next mower.

Peace



You my friend need glasses or contacts. I can almost tell you what mower cut a particular yard by looking at it when I drive by. Scags are real easy to spot. They just dont leave a clean crisp cut like some mowers do.


Here is an example. This was cut last spring 2 hours after 1" of rain. This was real deep and wet and is a high quality lush turf. Most mowers would have clumped and left a heck of a mess in these conditions. This was done with our Tank M48.

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/2534/fuckingaround001rp2.jpg

tb8100
04-01-2008, 07:27 PM
If my nearest dealer was closer than 2 hours away I would have before I bought my new Gravely 160 a couple weeks ago. Oh well I dont think I missed out on much and I know it wouldnt have been any cheaper than what I paid for my 160Z. So far this spring the X-Factor deck is really impressing me. :dancing:

why are you getting your panties all in a wad about them if they're not even close enough for you to be interested in them (though they are priced better than Gravely). Even if they had videos on their website of their mowers cutting manicured lawns, you would just find another reason to complain. :hammerhead:

retrodog
04-01-2008, 07:29 PM
You my friend need glasses or contacts. I can almost tell you what mower cut a particular yard by looking at it when I drive by. Scags are real easy to spot. They just dont leave a clean crisp cut like some mowers do.


Here is an example. This was cut last spring 2 hours after 1" of rain. This was real deep and wet and is a high quality lush turf. Most mowers would have clumped and left a heck of a mess in these conditions. This was done with our Tank M48.

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/2534/fuckingaround001rp2.jpg

I have crappy southern turf that doesn't really stripe, but I could put pics on here anyways. I have been cutting some major clover build ups at full speed, and I am leaving a clean cut with no blades sticking up. The other mowers I see get bogged up pretty bad in wet clover and leave clumps, but not my new 31hp lightning. Hey, are you sure you saw a 31hp at TSC? They only sell the 26hp Briggs 60" deck for Bad Boy and nothing else. They can't even special order the smaller deck ZT.

bigclawn
04-01-2008, 08:06 PM
Don't look no different than any other good mower for cut and thats a mighty heavy machine to be using on a residential run.

Mike Blevins
04-01-2008, 08:34 PM
You my friend need glasses or contacts. I can almost tell you what mower cut a particular yard by looking at it when I drive by. Scags are real easy to spot. They just dont leave a clean crisp cut like some mowers do.


Here is an example. This was cut last spring 2 hours after 1" of rain. This was real deep and wet and is a high quality lush turf. Most mowers would have clumped and left a heck of a mess in these conditions. This was done with our Tank M48.

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/2534/fuckingaround001rp2.jpg

Scag don't leave crisp cut :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: :laugh::laugh: Here have another beer your starting to talk out of your a$$.:drinkup: :hammerhead:

Razorblades
04-01-2008, 08:43 PM
Don't look no different than any other good mower for cut and thats a mighty heavy machine to be using on a residential run.

I guess Prostreetcamaro didn't think that his M 48 Cub was too heavy to use on the residential lawn that you are referring to since that was his picture.

dancce
04-01-2008, 10:06 PM
What I want to know is HOW DOES IT CUT?

How long have they been in buisness now? How come I have never seen any pictures of the cut quality? How come I have never seen any videos of the cut quality? Everything I have seen they have been used as a bush hog. Who gives a flying #@$%^ any mower can cut down 2 feet tall junk. I want to see the cut quality plain and simple. If it isnt good im not buying plain and simple. I dont care how much cheaper they are. And dont show me the cut quality of southern turf because any mower can cut that stiff crap they call grass. I want to see the cut quality of fine northern turf fescue. I want to see how well the deck creates vacum to stand up and cut clean the soft limp northern grass. Untill then Bad Boy might as well go out of business as far as I am concerned.

Wow, what did Bad Boy do to you to hack you off????

First off----that southern stiff "crap" is a whole lot tougher to cut than the "fine northern turf fescue" that you refer to.
I was raised in Ohio, and cut lawns for money in my younger days---so I know how "hard " it is to cut that stuff. All you need is sharp blades. ( Not really rocket science.)

I plan to do a video of the Bad Boys in action, in different cutting conditions. Hopefully this will put this "cut quality" question to rest.

I agree, that the vacuum created , is an important factor when it comes to quality of cut-----but I think that most high end manufacturers have this figured out today.

dancce

dancce
04-01-2008, 10:23 PM
Dancce, you misunderstood my post. I only used the term insurance with regard to protection against premature failure of specified components. When a machine is abused, the resulting failed components don't die prematurely. They've met or exceeded their life cycle, though thanks to the abuse, its not as long as it would have been if the machine was used properly.

Insurance can cover many different types of things. Accidental damage to your equipment, accidental damage to other equipment, theft, etc. A warranty is insurance against defective components on a machine for the given time frame.

That said, welcome to the Bad Boy family. You've picked a good product with a great company that stands behind it. What line of tractors are you carrying? We're also a tractor/mower dealer as well.

I understood your post. I was just expanding on it---( and venting some--because of some things that I have experienced, with regard to misunderstandings as to what a warranty actually is).

Thanks for the welcome. I am a dealer for Branson, and Zetor tractors, and Krone haying equipment, and several other tractor attachment lines. (Also looking at taking on Deutz-Fahr and/or McCormick.)

dancce

AdamChrap
04-01-2008, 10:49 PM
Just to clear this up for me. Are we talking about the same Bad Boy mowers they sell at TSC? What do you do when they break and you have no dealer? Were do you even get parts? The one I looked at had a combined wheel motor and pump, I don't think I like that. I figure you get what you pay for and at $5000 for a 60" 25hp I would run.

tb8100
04-01-2008, 10:56 PM
I understood your post. I was just expanding on it---( and venting some--because of some things that I have experienced, with regard to misunderstandings as to what a warranty actually is).

Thanks for the welcome. I am a dealer for Branson, and Zetor tractors, and Krone haying equipment, and several other tractor attachment lines. (Also looking at taking on Deutz-Fahr and/or McCormick.)

dancce

Ah ok.

Those Bransons any good? How are they priced compared to Kubota, New Holland, and some of the other compacts out there?

dancce
04-01-2008, 10:59 PM
Are the ones sold at TSC the same quality as any others or are they cheapened up? I see a couple there that have the 31 hp in them.

To my knowledge, they are the same machines.
The only drawback to buying equipment at ANY large box store, is that they do not, and can not, provide the after-sale service that a full line, full service dealer, can. (And the initial prices are the same.)

dancce

tb8100
04-01-2008, 11:01 PM
Just to clear this up for me. Are we talking about the same Bad Boy mowers they sell at TSC? What do you do when they break and you have no dealer? Were do you even get parts? The one I looked at had a combined wheel motor and pump, I don't think I like that. I figure you get what you pay for and at $5000 for a 60" 25hp I would run.

Only one of the many Bad Boy models is featured at TSC. It's a lead-in model- 26hp Briggs ELS, 60" cut. They have that unit in a 36" and 50" as well. The ZT2800 transaxle is fine, though I would prefer separate pumps and wheel motors. Loads better than the IZT and EZT transaxles found on homeowner mowers.

Bad Boys range from $4500-$12700, so there is a mower for just about every niche in the zero turn market. www.badboymowers.com

dancce
04-01-2008, 11:49 PM
Ah ok.

Those Bransons any good? How are they priced compared to Kubota, New Holland, and some of the other compacts out there?

Thanks for putting the soapbox at my feet!:weightlifter:
Yep, they are great tractors. Heavy frames, Cummins diesel engines in all.
They manufacture most all of the machine components---parent company is one of the largest steel companys in the world.
Prices are very competitive.

What line/lines do you handle??

dancce

tb8100
04-02-2008, 12:12 AM
Oh yeah, service is done either at nearby Bad Boy dealers or if they're not close by, an authorized service center. Parts can be had factory direct if an independent dealer is too far away.

tb8100
04-02-2008, 12:23 AM
Thanks for putting the soapbox at my feet!:weightlifter:
Yep, they are great tractors. Heavy frames, Cummins diesel engines in all.
They manufacture most all of the machine components---parent company is one of the largest steel companys in the world.
Prices are very competitive.

What line/lines do you handle??

dancce

Cummins diesels? Really?

In the lawn and garden side, we handle Scag, Bad Boy, Snapper, and Echo. Looking at maybe adding Bearcat. For tractors, we're just handling used stuff right now, but we're thinking about adding a new line. Tractor companies are real picky about territories around here! There are certain companies where the nearest dealer is nearly 40 miles away and the territory rep says they don't wanna crowd dealers. We move a couple hundred used tractors a year and would like to try our luck at new tractors if we can find a reputable company with a quality product line.

For trailers, we handle Continental Cargo and a local utility trailer line, C-5 trailers. And a good selection of used models as well.

How does Branson stack up against Kioti, Mahindra, and Montana? Price, strength, features, etc.

tb8100
04-02-2008, 12:31 AM
Oh, and what is the steel company that owns Branson? I don't know why, but I'm like a sponge when it comes to equipment trivia. I like soaking up all this information so I can share it with my customers and fellow OPE fanatics.

tb8100
04-02-2008, 12:51 AM
Hey, check out www.ppecongress.com. It's a really cool dealer message board with alot of good members and great information. It's fairly quiet, but there are some very helpful members on there.

dancce
04-02-2008, 09:48 AM
Oh, and what is the steel company that owns Branson? I don't know why, but I'm like a sponge when it comes to equipment trivia. I like soaking up all this information so I can share it with my customers and fellow OPE fanatics.

Branson's warehouse , offices, and assembly facility here in the US is in Rome, Georgia and is owned by Kukje Machinery of South Korea---and Kukje is a subsidiary of Dong Kuk Steel in South Korea, which I understand is the 3rd or 4th largest steel co. in the world.
Branson, Mahindra, and Kioti are all manufacturers of their own tractors, where as Montana is a distributor who get their tractors mostly from LS (was LG) from South Korea. All are good tractors, generally priced lower than the so-called major names. NH,JD,Kubota are mostly all made in Japan, and are generally lighter framed---All this is referring to the compact class of tractors, roughly 45hp and under.

dancce

dancce
04-02-2008, 10:33 AM
Cummins diesels? Really?

In the lawn and garden side, we handle Scag, Bad Boy, Snapper, and Echo. Looking at maybe adding Bearcat. For tractors, we're just handling used stuff right now, but we're thinking about adding a new line. Tractor companies are real picky about territories around here! There are certain companies where the nearest dealer is nearly 40 miles away and the territory rep says they don't wanna crowd dealers. We move a couple hundred used tractors a year and would like to try our luck at new tractors if we can find a reputable company with a quality product line.

For trailers, we handle Continental Cargo and a local utility trailer line, C-5 trailers. And a good selection of used models as well.

How does Branson stack up against Kioti, Mahindra, and Montana? Price, strength, features, etc.


The full story about the Cummins engines in Branson tractors is that about 5 years ago Cummins went to Branson/Kukje to have them manufacture all of the A series Cummins for them and build them to the Cummins specs. Engine parts can be obtained from Cummins and/or Branson for the tractor engines. Same part numbers, etc.---just cost more from Cummins.

Sometimes, I think selling just used tractors, is a smarter way to go. Each one ,is one of a kind, because of condition and how well it was purchased, as opposed to having to compete with other dealers with the exact same product. There is sometimes the ocassion where another dealer will almost give away a tractor, if they are strapped for cash, or one has come due on a floor plan. Fortunatley, many local customers will buy locally from someone they know and trust, and will give good after sale service----but with the advent of internet shopping, some people overlook service, and just look at initial price.
I'm venting again----it can be tough at times to make a buck in any retail type of business. Still love it, though:usflag:

dancce

tb8100
04-02-2008, 08:08 PM
The full story about the Cummins engines in Branson tractors is that about 5 years ago Cummins went to Branson/Kukje to have them manufacture all of the A series Cummins for them and build them to the Cummins specs. Engine parts can be obtained from Cummins and/or Branson for the tractor engines. Same part numbers, etc.---just cost more from Cummins.

Sometimes, I think selling just used tractors, is a smarter way to go. Each one ,is one of a kind, because of condition and how well it was purchased, as opposed to having to compete with other dealers with the exact same product. There is sometimes the ocassion where another dealer will almost give away a tractor, if they are strapped for cash, or one has come due on a floor plan. Fortunatley, many local customers will buy locally from someone they know and trust, and will give good after sale service----but with the advent of internet shopping, some people overlook service, and just look at initial price.
I'm venting again----it can be tough at times to make a buck in any retail type of business. Still love it, though:usflag:

dancce

That's interesting. I have to say, I'm really impressed that there are Cummins engines in these tractors. Cummins makes a great diesel. Is that usually the selling feature of the tractor? I know it would be around these parts, or one of them. Everybody drives Dodge around here.

On a side note, I didn't realize Cummins made an engine this small. I wonder why they haven't put them in turf applications yet. The Cummins would be a major hit in this industry as there is really only 3 diesel options- Daihatsu (Vanguard/Briggs), Caterpillar, and Kubota. If Branson ever made a zero turn, that would be the way to go. I'm sure they'll make a zero turn at some point, like many other tractor manufacturers. But that engine would help them propel up to be a real contender, so long as the rest of the unit was built well.

Where did the name Branson come from? I like it- sounds more American, though I know they're no more American than the next tractor company. Where are they in the top 10 list of tractor manufacturers? I know Mahindra is shooting up to the top and isn't far away from that point (they claim they'll hit the top next year...we'll see). CNH is a huge contender, as is Kubota and Deere (is Deere at the top?). There are a million little compact tractor manufacturers, but alot of them just don't have brand recognition. If we carried a compact, it wouldn't have to be a Kubota or Deere, but we would want a brand that at least had some brand recognition (in addition to having quality fit/finish, good bang for the buck, warranty, and financing).

We'll never get out of the used tractor business, but there's a market we'll never penetrate with used tractors, so we want to expand to where we can attract customers we wouldn't see otherwise. Plus, it's nice to be able to sell a tractor with a warranty and good financing!

If you want, you can reply in a private message so this thread can get back on track!

tb8100
04-02-2008, 08:10 PM
Shibaura is penetrating the turf market for the first time through Hustler, and Hustler is jumping into the tractor market as I'm sure you're well aware. That'll be interesting to see where they go with that.

supermoon
05-17-2008, 02:18 AM
hey
you guys with this how good is the cut, ride, horsepower??

i was watching some of the media on there site it looks like they do wheelies pretty easily...
looks like fun...

Dan

I was pleasantly surprised at how well it cut. I have heard others down grade the cut , but I think it is great. Plenty of HP to mow through just about anything. The combination of the easy ride suspension and the suspension seat make for a really good feel. :usflag:

Leisure Time Lawn Care
05-17-2008, 10:56 AM
I was pleasantly surprised at how well it cut. I have heard others down grade the cut , but I think it is great. Plenty of HP to mow through just about anything. The combination of the easy ride suspension and the suspension seat make for a really good feel. :usflag:

I will back you up on that supermoon. I will try and get some pics up later today of wht the finish cut looks like...

tb8100
05-17-2008, 11:09 AM
can't wait to see the pics! :waving: