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View Full Version : What would you have done?


landscaper22
03-27-2008, 05:29 PM
I was thinking about this incident today (while mowing) that happened late last summer. I thought I would post the situation. The more I thank about this, the angrier I get. I will try to make it as short as possible...
An ex-employee had worked for me part time for about a year or longer. He was in his teens and overall was a decent employee. He was a pastor's son, home schooled, and was able to help me out even during the school year (well it started out that way anyway). One day he asked me if he could borrow my old lawn mower to cut the softball field at the church because they needed to use the field for some church wide event that Sunday. This mower was not my nice Z, but rather a Crapsman 42" that I used for a couple of accounts that I would not put my Z in because of rocks and junk (they were still profitable none the less).
Well, against my better judgment I said he could borrow it. Well, the day he was using it, he calls me....And to make a long story short, it turns out when he had checked the oil, he didn't tighten the dip stick down. So guess what, oil was everywhere, and eventually the engine locked up. I feel like anyone with any common sense would have noticed the problem before the thing locked up, but that is a different story. He and his father said that they would replace it for me. The boy was really upset, and I told him not to worry himself sick about it. I told them I would check into the matter, as I would not be buying a new crapsman. But I would try to find a used one. So the boy continues to work for me for a few more weeks. During that time I found a good used crapsman, almost like the one I had, and only paid $300. Now, being the nice guy that I am, I never actually asked him to pay me the money back. He never voluntered it again. I told him I had bought another mower, and left it at that. So anyway, after pulling a couple of other crazy stunts, and suddenly deciding he was going out of town every other week, I really started getting mad at the boy and he only worked for me a couple of months after the mower incident.
Now before I ask you what you would have done in this situation their are a few facts you really need to know that may just influence your decision....

1) There was (and still is) a member of the church that is a LCO and gets paid good money to cut this property.
2) It has been said that people in the church are dissapointed in his work and I would probably get the contract when he quit (which he was supposed to be leaving the country...so I thought it was a sure thing.) I didn't want to rock that boat too much.
3) The boy was cutting the field in the first place because the LCO was not doing his job. The church hates to say anything to the guy bacsue he is sooooo involved in the church and they don't want to run him off.
4) Later I found out the other LCO actually paid the boy some money since it was the LCO's responsibility in the first place. I think it was only like between $20-30.
5) The mower he used was not new but I had just put like $150 in repairs a couple of months before this happened. So, it was in great running condition.

In summary, this kid borrows my mower to cut his church property that someone else gets paid to cut. He ruins my mower doing the work that this sorry LCO was supposed to do and ends up getting paid a little for the work. I hate to rock the boat too much becasue I feel I have a 90% chance of getting this account that would be near $1000 per month. Well the other LCO is still here and still servicing the property. Looks like I am S.O.L. any way you look at it.....I get a little angrier every time I think about this.....What would you have done?

GSPHUNTER
03-27-2008, 05:37 PM
First thing I thought when I read your post was that you are letting yourself get too wrapped up in other things than your biz. What I mean is, business is business. Don't worry about "rocking the boat" with the curch. Go find another property to mow if you don't want to "rock the boat." If you want to church go and place a bid on it. Try to cut out personal relationships with your biz and keep things goal oriented and business related.

Good luck with figuring things out.

daveintoledo
03-27-2008, 05:39 PM
but my first thought was if your hiring a kid, your not a legal business, your not paying workers comp, or matching his soc sec , and probably paying him under the table..... Karma....most states you have to be at leats 17 to legally operate machinery....

do the right things and the right things will happen to you....

landscaper22
03-27-2008, 05:46 PM
He was getting paid legally. He was 16 when I hired him. No WC, but that was not required. But taxes were taken out and unemployment was paid.

And Yeah I don't want you to think that possibly getting the contract was the only deciding factor. I probably would have done the same thing even if that was not the case...But sure it was in the back of my mind.

landscaper22
03-27-2008, 05:52 PM
And actually I think he could operate the mower at 16...I don't know. But when I first hired him it was mainly for extra work like sod, straw, etc....Then as he learned I put him on the string trimmers and bloweers, etc

daveintoledo
03-27-2008, 06:02 PM
i think i would have taken the cost out of his pay, (if that is legal, would have to check)

and not always as binding as some contracts, i would have them sign a no compete clause also....

i also stay away from churches.....they have the most money, but want to pay the least, if at all.....

mattfromNY
03-27-2008, 06:22 PM
I would have reprimanded him for making money behind your back, using YOUR equipment. Short of that, I wouldn't break a friendship or relationship with the church over $300. It sounds like that $300 is already burning an ulcer in your guts, you're still frettin it. let it go man. Learn from it and move on. Just dont let it happen again.

landscaper22
03-27-2008, 06:23 PM
i think i would have taken the cost out of his pay, (if that is legal, would have to check)

and not always as binding as some contracts, i would have them sign a no compete clause also....

i also stay away from churches.....they have the most money, but want to pay the least, if at all.....

I wish I had handled things a little different. I don't think it would be legal to deduct from his pay check. Don't know for sure though.
He didn't cut the property expecting to get paid, so I don't think a no compete clause would have done any good. He cut it because the LCO was slack. I think the LCO just paid him a little as an after thought becasue it made him look bad that someone else was cutting the place.
I feel like the boy should have at least given me the money he got paid for cutting the place. That would have been a good gesture. No, $30 or so would not do anything for me, but maybe it would have been enough to teach him to pay better attention in the future.
Because I am nice, I would have never expected him to pay me the full amount. But he should have made some effort. But, I have learned a lesson too.

I hate that I have not totally let it go. But, that's just me....It's not a big thing. It is just one of those cases where you make a decision to allow someone to do something even though your gut tells you not to do it. And it turns out just like your gut tells you it will. I forgive, but I don't forget. It runs in the family. :laugh: Just thought I would get some input from some others. on the matter.

Howard Roark
03-27-2008, 09:44 PM
You should have called the Father when you found the other mower and told him the cost and to arrange payment. And yes, earlier good advice was to keep emotions out of business.

Hope it all works out.

DuallyVette
03-28-2008, 12:28 AM
(1) If an employee wanted to borrow a mower to mow his church, My 1st question would be "who usually mows it", " why didn't they do it"?, "who ask you to do it". I may or MAY NOT ALLOW IT.

(2) Your employee was probably taught to check the oil before using a mower. Who taught him? He could just as easily left the plug loose while mowing your property as any other. If he had the "accident" on your time and property, it would be your loss. I accept the losses because I was stupid enough to think that they were smart enough and capable enough to perform the task. My fault !!

(3) Any time I hear an employee hollar " OUCH !! or "DAMMMM" I'm delighted if its less than $500 in damage.

I hope this helps you let go. It was your fault. He's a minor. His dad would be responsible (legally) if it was WILLFULL damage. Your lucky that you lost a $300 mower. and not more.

landscaper22
03-28-2008, 01:45 PM
(1) If an employee wanted to borrow a mower to mow his church, My 1st question would be "who usually mows it", " why didn't they do it"?, "who ask you to do it". I may or MAY NOT ALLOW IT.

(2) Your employee was probably taught to check the oil before using a mower. Who taught him? He could just as easily left the plug loose while mowing your property as any other. If he had the "accident" on your time and property, it would be your loss. I accept the losses because I was stupid enough to think that they were smart enough and capable enough to perform the task. My fault !!

(3) Any time I hear an employee hollar " OUCH !! or "DAMMMM" I'm delighted if its less than $500 in damage.

I hope this helps you let go. It was your fault. He's a minor. His dad would be responsible (legally) if it was WILLFULL damage. Your lucky that you lost a $300 mower. and not more.

Yeah, lesson learned! I guess I was more mad at myself than anything else. For what? Being too nice sometimes. You hate to come across as a hard ass all the time. And I am the one that taught him to check the oil. He knew to do that from working with me. And it is not like the damage was a result of any horse play on his part. I took all that in consideration when it happened.
I think the thing that makes me mad the most is the fact that it would not have happened if the LCO that services the property would have done his job. I mean if this was a poor church with 40 members and no budget for lawn maintenance, I would not have been as big of a deal. The boy only did the work because he thought it would not otherwise get done. And the fact that the other LCO did in fact pay him some for doing the work (which it was several weeks later before I found out) using my equipment was just like pouring a little salt on the wound.
But, I just thought I would get some opinions if you had been in my shoes. But I live, I learn. That gut feeling is there for a reason. Go with it!

IA_James
03-28-2008, 01:52 PM
1st, if you haven't got the $300 yet, you're probably not going to. Forget it as bad debt.

2nd, go get that $1k a month contract, and then do such a good job on it that the deacons say "I wish we hired this guy to begin with" and the members say "Why isn't he doing our yard?" If the property lays right, you have a 50+ person audience for your yardwork as well as the sermon. Maybe 10-20% of the people will actually notice, but that's still 5 or 10 potential customers who get to look at your work.

Mrs. H
03-28-2008, 09:31 PM
1. We learned a long time ago that employee "borrowing" equipment means they are going to try to make money with your equipment. :nono:

2. There are a lot of teenagers without common sense.

3. I'm a firm believer in letting the "flock" do their own work. Whole other story, but we just had to hunt Easter Eggs with dirty underwear in our church yard because the guy who we lost the contract to (who DID seriously lowball by $200) doesn't care about our church like we do. Anyway...just my 2¢!

CALandscapes
03-28-2008, 11:00 PM
Let it go...

It's over, hopefully you learned from it, and as far as the boy - karma's a *****.

landscaper22
03-30-2008, 12:53 PM
1st, if you haven't got the $300 yet, you're probably not going to. Forget it as bad debt.

2nd, go get that $1k a month contract, and then do such a good job on it that the deacons say "I wish we hired this guy to begin with" and the members say "Why isn't he doing our yard?" If the property lays right, you have a 50+ person audience for your yardwork as well as the sermon. Maybe 10-20% of the people will actually notice, but that's still 5 or 10 potential customers who get to look at your work.

I still hope to get it one day...We are all still on good terms. So, only time will tell. And I agree with what you said. And It is probably about a 350-400 active member audience. So, I feel like there would be some more business generated from the members.

landscaper22
03-31-2008, 04:08 PM
1. We learned a long time ago that employee "borrowing" equipment means they are going to try to make money with your equipment. :nono:

2. There are a lot of teenagers without common sense.

3. I'm a firm believer in letting the "flock" do their own work. Whole other story, but we just had to hunt Easter Eggs with dirty underwear in our church yard because the guy who we lost the contract to (who DID seriously lowball by $200) doesn't care about our church like we do. Anyway...just my 2¢!

I do agree that a lot ot teens have no common sense. If it goes beyond pushing the buttons on an xbox controller, many of them are clueless. :laugh:

As far as letting him borrow the mower. I know it was borrowed with good intentions. I don't question if he was trying to make money from my equipment. He is always doing things at the church and for the church, and he wanted the grounds to look good for a particular event. He knew he could not depend on the LCO to get it done, so he took it upon himself to do what he did. But like I said, after the fact he did get a little money. And I do feel that was not right, as I did mention.

But yeah, great advice.

big acres
03-31-2008, 04:28 PM
A favor like that should always be preceded with "you break it, you buy it". Those few words would have him rightfully obligated to compensate you.