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imowit
01-18-2000, 05:35 AM
I plan on buying a new 60 inch cut, midmount ztr this spring. (Make still undecided.)<br>My question is: Have all the problems with the Kohler 25 been fixed? Would there be much chance of getting a bad one in a new machine now? Would I be better off going with the Kohler 22?<br>Your thoughts on this will be appreciated. <p>----------<br>Mike's Lawn Service<br>

Lazer
01-18-2000, 05:42 AM
Still undecided on brand?! A demo on an eXmark Lazer Z is in the cards for you.<p>We had the same problems with the 22hp as we did with the 25hp's. We resolved the problem by purchasing Kawasaki's. eXmark has that new Kohler 26hp EFI, don't know if that's any better or not.<p>I think it's kinda sad American made engines generally aren't as good as their Japanese counterparts.<br>

Charles
01-18-2000, 05:59 AM
My Exmark Kohler 23 is running fine. What kid of problems did Kohler have?<br>Charles

Lazer
01-18-2000, 06:11 AM
Kohler 23? I never saw one. Kawasaki made a 23hp.<p>What problems? Boy! Ignition modules, lifters, rocker arms, head gaskets. We've had our share. I don't work on any of them, so I don't know the details. When they stopped running, we brought them back to the dealer for service. Now with the Kawsaki's, we only go there for some maintenance parts.<p>

imowit
01-18-2000, 06:31 AM
I guess I should have been more specific. I have read quite a few older posts where people were having head gasket problems with the Kohler 25.<p>----------<br>Mike's Lawn Service<br>

Charles
01-18-2000, 06:42 AM
Yep, Kohler now has a command23 put on the lazers.<br>Charles<br>

Lazer
01-18-2000, 06:42 AM
Oh yeah, we had plenty of those as well. It would take me a while to document all the repairs on the Kohlers. I'd say every engine had problems 2-3 times/year. And they're all within 3 years new.

Lazer
01-18-2000, 06:45 AM
Charles,<br>Is it the new Gold series, horizontal shaft?

Barkleymut
01-18-2000, 07:51 AM
I have a 25 HP Kohler on my Dixie Chopper that I bought new in March of 99. After 25 hours of mowing it started spewing black smoke from the exhaust. I was scared to death that I got one of the dreaded 25 HP Kohlers that has such a bad track record. But since I have had zero problems. I now have over 350 hours. Just make sure they put on the redesigned Reed valve (thats what Dixie Chopper told me when I called them). Seems to have solved my head gasket problem.

lbmd1
01-18-2000, 08:12 AM
Our Toro Z Master 2 years ago came with the Kohler 25 that did blow a head gasket. Kohler issued an alert to reinstall by hand torqueing a new gasket. We had only about 20 hours on our machine when it blew. The dealer did an incredible job fixing it in less then 5 hours and we now have over 900 hrs on it without one problem. We since purchased anothe Z Master with a newer designed Kohler 25 Command Pro on it. Hope this answers any concerns. I don't know how most of you feel, but we have had nothing but problems after a year or 2 with our Kawasaki engines, also with gasket problems. I myself would never buy another Kawasaki engine.<p>Mike

Evan528
01-18-2000, 09:51 AM
i dont like reading this...haha. i have a 4 month old toro z master with a 25 hp kohlor, its a horizonal shaft. were most of the ones with problems the vertical shafts? spent 7500 bucks and i dont intend to have any problems.

Lazer
01-18-2000, 09:57 AM
Evan,<br>I don't know if they made a 25hp vertical. Yours is so new, you're probably going to be fine. Kohler did make some changes.

Retro67
01-18-2000, 09:59 AM
Lazer-<br>Does the 23 Kawi seem to have as much torque as they say it does? They said it is actually more powerful under load than the Kohler 25 when I talked to the factory reps from Ferris. Just curious how anyone else with experience with the 23 has liked it.<p>John<br>

Lazer
01-18-2000, 10:14 AM
Retro,<p>We don't have any Kaw 23's. I don't know if eXmark uses those. We have 19hp on our new tracers and 22hp liquid on our new Lazers. I don't pay much attention to the horsepower/torque claims. Most of them are munipulated in some way to sell the mower. They all seem to have enough power when you need it. Geez, 15 years ago we were mowing with a 52&quot; WB w/ 11hp, now we've got 8&quot; more deck and 2.5 times the power.<p>I will say I am pretty impressed though, with the 19hp Kaw on our Tracers, they perform right alongside the 22hp Kohlers. (Kohlers are a year older, though)<p>I would think that claim Ferris makes is probably accurate, Kaw's have always had good torque. I personally won't buy another Kohler ('til they change) but others, (like lbmd1 for example) have had different experiences.<p>I've probably owned 35 Kohlers in my career and maybe 25 Kawasaki's and I know what works for us right now.

gorrell
01-18-2000, 10:46 AM
It's too bad they're not available yet, but Kohler is now making a 23 hp vertical water cooled engine that is basically the same size as the command pro. It has an integral radiator attached to the blower housing(pictured on their web site) I asked Kohler about it, and they said all production at this time is going to oem sales. Guess we'll have to wait. The engine has a 3 year warranty. Thanks, Lynn Gorrell

Charles
01-18-2000, 07:06 PM
Lazer, I couldnt find any info on what your question was in the manual about the gold part. I know it is a horizontal shaft. That it is a 23hp kohler on a lazer. It is new though. Used a couple of months with no problems so far (knock on wood).<br>Charles

Eric ELM
02-02-2000, 07:20 PM
Does anyone know if the 23 Kohler is just a 22 with a longer stroke, more compression, or something to make a 22HP a 23HP? BTW: Dixie Chopper is now putting Kawasaki's on their cheaper models disigned for homeowners.<p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.townserver.com/elm/&quot;&gt;Eric@ELM&lt;/a&gt;<br>

Lazer
02-02-2000, 08:16 PM
I thought all their mowers were designed for homeowners. LOL<p>Actually a Briggs & Stratton would be a fine engine for Dixie Choppers. Then you could spend equal time working on mower and engine.

lawrence stone
02-02-2000, 08:36 PM
Hey Lazer some of us are STILL mowing with<br>15 year old toros with 11hp briggs engines.<p>About 4 years ago I &quot;found&quot; a 1985 toro<br>11 hp briggs I/C with a 52&quot; deck for $500<br>sitting outside in the snow in the back<br>of a farm equipment dealer in NW New Jersey.<p>All I really wanted was the 52&quot; deck for a<br>16hp kohler magnum traction unit. I have used that traction unit (11hp)to steal parts from<br>(instead of going to the toro dealer) the<br>last few years.<p>I was going to sell the unit so I took it<br>to the local toro dealer to fix (I wanted to<br>throw him a bone in case in need his services in the future).<p>For a $250 he installed a nearly new carb,<br>breather, and replaced the rope, spring and<br>ratchet on the recoil starter.<p>I have a 48&quot; pure recycler deck (1991) hooked to the traction unit.<br>When I picked up the unit from the dealer I<br>could not belive the performance. When you<br>turn the electric cluth on the thing does<br>not miss a beat and does not smoke one bit.<p>Now you could not give me enough cash for that machine. Although the quality of cut<br>is not as good as the side discharge decks<br>it is the perfect trimming mower for large<br>commecial sites. Since the mower does not<br>discharge it is a perfect machine on sites<br>with high pedestrian traffic.<p>It's now at my welder having the rear of<br>the machine reinforced with a piece of angle<br>iron and having a sulky plate attached.<p>I will NEVER buy a new machine again for<br>I plan on buying every old gear drive unit<br>I can afford and I am planing on building<br>a lawn maint. empire from old junk.<p>I don't know about you but I am not comfortable giving min. wage laborers $7000<br>lawn mowers to operate.<p>

Lazer
02-02-2000, 08:49 PM
I agree, I wouldn't give a minimum wage earner a 7000.00 mower either.<br>'course I wouldn't give a minumum wage earner a job mowing, but that's another story.<p>I think 1985 was the only year for the 2 gallon steel gas tank and the idler pullies on the drive belts were red instead of black. Sound like yours? <p>(And you thought you were the only one who knows Toros. lol)<p>I liked the 48&quot; recycler when we had one. I found it striped awesome when you used like 80% of the deck, with major overlaps. Does yours do this?<p>

thelawnguy
02-03-2000, 08:19 AM
Im not a Toro fan, but my sister has an old Toro wb 60 or 61 inch deck I think, 8hp briggs and scrapiron engine she uses it to mow her 2 acre property bought it used eight years ago. This thing sits out uncovered year round in sun and snow, always starts for her and she will mow foot high grass no problem. Only problem, last fall it only wanted to go in circles one of the brake bands rusted up. She changes the oil and sharpens the blades, some grease once or twice a year and thats it. <p>The T-bar is a big drawback IMO, tho others think its the best thing.<p>Bill

lawrence stone
02-03-2000, 10:00 AM
Lazer,<p>We live in two totally differnet locations.<br>You do the big money burbs on 20 mile road.<br>I live in the hard coal region of PA where<br>a 100 people will apply for a $15k/yr. job.<p>As for the 1985 unit it has the plastic tank<br>and sorta &quot;rust&quot; colered idelers HAHAHA<p>The old 48&quot; recycler deck was last used in<br>the fall of 1994. I bought a &quot;brand new&quot;<br>unit with a 44&quot; deck the next spring.<br>The recycler was just to slow (3rd gear)in periods of high growth. Plus the machine had<br>to have the under deck pressure washed every<br>day when the turf contained any moisture.<br>You could not just get by with a scrap job<br>(DNC) and a blade change like a side discharge unit.<p>You were right about the striping. I have<br>a 5 acre industrial site on a high traffic corner and I got all kind of complements<br>concerning the 2 1/2 open tract of turf<br>on that site.<p>I hope all the northern turf managers have<br>a sussessfull season and you southern guys<br>use skin block for the UV.<p>This is my last post to this forum.<br>A group of us licensed contractors have<br>formed a private e-mail list to the benifet of OUR needs.<p>We can no longer tolerate the interfernece<br>from the administrator of this forum.<p>Good luck and goodbye.<br>

Retro67
02-03-2000, 10:13 AM
I haven't been on my walk behind all day, but I do feel like dancin'! ;-)&lt;p&gt;John

JJ Lawn
02-03-2000, 08:32 PM
John,<p>How long do you expect that feelin to last? :)<p>----------<br>Jim.....from Fouke, Arkansas (Home of the Boggy Creek Monster)<br>

lbmd1
02-03-2000, 08:52 PM
Strike 3 and you're out!<p>Good Guys 1<p>Coal Miners 0

JJ Lawn
02-04-2000, 12:12 AM
John,<p>Put your dancing shoes up....... the sounds of silence did not last long.<p><p>----------<br>Jim.....from Fouke, Arkansas (Home of the Boggy Creek Monster)<br>