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Detroitdan
04-01-2008, 08:44 AM
Thinking about buying a new mower. I started part time summer before last, I got a Yard Card and bought a used walk-behind. I only mow one, sometimes two days a week, so it's been enough. I'd like to pick up some more work this year, but I don't want to unless I can get a zero turn. Found what Iwant yesterday, called up my Yard Card account and asked if I could increase it by$6000 and they said no, only gave me $2000. Didn't really want to use that account anyway, would rather get a loan from my credit union, but I was curious if they'd give it to me. Now I'm worried I'm not going to be able to get the money.
I have a personal and a business account at my new credit union, personally I'm pretty maxed out. The business acount has just been so I can deposit mowing and plowing checks. Do you think I could go in and borrow money on my business account, totally seperate from the personal account? When I had both accounts at a local bank it seems like they were always trying to loan me money for the business.
As a side note, I left that bank because they were so expensive, closed my accounts and went to the credit union. Now it seems that they did not in fact close my accounts, after telling me they did, and are chasing me for money I don't owe them, just tons of fees for having no money in the accounts AFTER I closed them. So recently they told me they are sending negative reports to the credit bureau, so I don't even know how far my credit score may have dropped. Maybe that's why I couldn't increase my limit on Yard Card from 4 to 10? Last year my credit was great, this is all their fault but they are able to kill my credit. Man I am frustrated!
Anyway, sorry about the rant. My question is, any suggestions on where to get the money for a piece of equipment for a business?

Tim Johnson
04-01-2008, 08:48 AM
The only way to find out is to go and apply for a loan. Most banks want 3 years or more of years in business. You can always get a loan thru sheffield, they give money to everybody interest rates can be high, but they always have special going on.

sky_lawncare
04-01-2008, 09:33 AM
I've learned this the hard way so many times. Debt is bad. Debt is risky.

If I can help it at all I do everything cash.

You pay SOOOO much more for everything you finance, and in some cases end up upside down in your loan as your asset depreciates.

As far as risk, if anything happened to your income stream it may affect your ability to repay. Think about it, if you pay cash theres monthly payment beating down your mailbox!

It's far better to work harder, wait longer if you have to, and buy everything out-right. You will be much richer in the long run.

I've taken a vow to stop making banks rich. It's a paradigm shift that seems to come from age and experience. I urge you to adopt it as well.

Instead of mowing a couple lawns a week, double that, and buy your zero turn cash.

TexasFire221
04-01-2008, 10:34 AM
Sheffield has high intrest and they will probably want half down. I went in the bank and asked for $6000 and got it. Three weeks later went in a asked for $8000 more and once again got it. I didnt think my credit was all that great but something was right I guess. The bank will usually give you better intrest rates than some place like Sheffield.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
04-01-2008, 10:43 AM
I've learned this the hard way so many times. Debt is bad. Debt is risky.

If I can help it at all I do everything cash.

You pay SOOOO much more for everything you finance, and in some cases end up upside down in your loan as your asset depreciates.

As far as risk, if anything happened to your income stream it may affect your ability to repay. Think about it, if you pay cash theres monthly payment beating down your mailbox!

It's far better to work harder, wait longer if you have to, and buy everything out-right. You will be much richer in the long run.

I've taken a vow to stop making banks rich. It's a paradigm shift that seems to come from age and experience. I urge you to adopt it as well.

Instead of mowing a couple lawns a week, double that, and buy your zero turn cash.

Per above, definitely agreed. Do you want to be the master or the slave of your business?

topsites
04-01-2008, 10:50 AM
On the other hand you can just take out a loan, then when it fails and you're left with a liability your parents won't have the money to bail you out because they're fixin' to be as broke as the rest of us so then maybe you'll be ready to step down off your high fallootin' horse and start becoming a bit more reasonable concerning hourly wages and salaries as it concerns if you were to work for someone else, yup, dang straight.

Or, you can do it the hard way and stop counting on everyone else's money, that is, save it up and then buy used, cash.
Oh yeah and stop thinking Ztr's too, foo', who you think you is come up around here you gonna RIDE in comfort while working?
You're a funny guy, you could watch the news to see how things are or you could take the short cut and start thinking run-down walk behind and sweat, dirt and sweat and hard manual labor, and lots of it.

But, the choice is yours.

Detroitdan
04-01-2008, 11:02 AM
Wow, thanks for all the incredibly off-base and unrealistic responses.
Tim and Greenskeeper, thanks for taking my question seriously and answering it, without going off on a wild tear about debt, and my parents, and whatever else some people were talking about.

To clarify, I don't have $6000 in cash to buy the machine. I can't do the extra work with my old WB to get the $6000. If I can borrow $6000 and make more than my payment will be, then that's how it's going to be. That's how many, if not most do it. If you can pay for your equipment in cash, good for you. I have paid for a lot of my equipment in cash, but not something this big. Can't do it. So why tell me not to borrow? You aren't going to have to make my payment. And I won't be asking my parents for money, I am 40 years old and I support my 70 y/o widowed mother in addition to raising a family.
I checked with Sheffield just for S&Gs. I'm going to go to the Credit Union today and ask.

Detroitdan
04-01-2008, 11:10 AM
On the other hand you can just take out a loan, then when it fails and you're left with a liability your parents won't have the money to bail you out because they're fixin' to be as broke as the rest of us so then maybe you'll be ready to step down off your high fallootin' horse and start becoming a bit more reasonable concerning hourly wages and salaries as it concerns if you were to work for someone else, yup, dang straight.

Or, you can do it the hard way and stop counting on everyone else's money, that is, save it up and then buy used, cash.
Oh yeah and stop thinking Ztr's too, foo', who you think you is come up around here you gonna RIDE in comfort while working?
You're a funny guy, you could watch the news to see how things are or you could take the short cut and start thinking run-down walk behind and sweat, dirt and sweat and hard manual labor, and lots of it.

But, the choice is yours.
I see you've almost reached 10,000 posts. Are they all rants like this? How am I on a high falutin' horse? Were you drunk when you wrote this? Or is it heavily disguised sarcasm. I don't get it.
Has no one in this business ever financed a new machine? I mean, I started with an old used WB, and a used trailer, and my truck is 11 years old. Heck, even my string trimmer is used. Lot's of guys out there finance 40,000 dollar 1 ton dumptrucks with plows and enclosed trailers full of new riders. Not where I'm heading. I just want to add a better mower on my used and paid for trailer behind my used and paid for truck, so I can feel more secure taking on some additional work.
WTF, dude, can you relax?

Paulup
04-01-2008, 11:42 AM
Wow, thanks for all the incredibly off-base and unrealistic responses.
Tim and Greenskeeper, thanks for taking my question seriously and answering it, without going off on a wild tear about debt, and my parents, and whatever else some people were talking about.

To clarify, I don't have $6000 in cash to buy the machine. I can't do the extra work with my old WB to get the $6000. If I can borrow $6000 and make more than my payment will be, then that's how it's going to be. That's how many, if not most do it. If you can pay for your equipment in cash, good for you. I have paid for a lot of my equipment in cash, but not something this big. Can't do it. So why tell me not to borrow? You aren't going to have to make my payment. And I won't be asking my parents for money, I am 40 years old and I support my 70 y/o widowed mother in addition to raising a family.
I checked with Sheffield just for S&Gs. I'm going to go to the Credit Union today and ask.

First off, these guys are just trying to help, and share their experiences in the business. Lawn care goes up and down, one day you might have 40 clients, and the next week you can have 15. Building debt around what you have or plan to have in the future can come back to bite you in the ass, and these guys are just trying to prepare you for that so you don't make the mistakes that some of them have made in the past.

On to your topic, i was in the same boat last week, needed solid equipment and I couldn't earn enough to buy it without having the equipment. Went to the local John Deere dealer, and they set me up with a JD717A for 6k, 36 months interest free financing. If you really want to get into a good zero turn, and have to borrow money to do it, I'd recommend heading to your local JD dealer and seeing if they can help you out.

Redbeard
04-01-2008, 12:02 PM
Cash is no doubt the best option and I'm sure their are many who have been caught with their pants down by not following this advice. The risks must definately be evaluated. That is why it is necessary to have a good business plan established before assuming debt. With that said, their are 1000's of small businnesses that would not have been established without some type of small business loan.

I to am in a similiar situation to yours. I just added a ZTR from Exmark. Thankfully I qualified for their 1.9% financing.

Best of luck in your endeavor.

supercuts
04-01-2008, 12:51 PM
The only way to find out is to go and apply for a loan. Most banks want 3 years or more of years in business. You can always get a loan thru sheffield, they give money to everybody interest rates can be high, but they always have special going on.

i financed my last one through sheffield, it was 0% 36months, 2.9% for 3 yr and 3.9% for 4 yr. i took the 0%. doesnt seem high to me. i like free money

lawnmaggot
04-01-2008, 01:02 PM
i financed my last one through sheffield, it was 0% 36months, 2.9% for 3 yr and 3.9% for 4 yr. i took the 0%. doesnt seem high to me. i like free money

I highly doubt the money was free, I was talking to my dealer, he said that they usually charge a 450.00 loan fee to do the loans as 0% interest...

Detroitdan
04-01-2008, 06:16 PM
Well, I got shot down in flames. Seems a little dispute with my old bank has cost me a bunch of points on my credit score. Was turned down by my credit union, Sheffield, and Capital One. This is amazing. I've had excellent credit all my life, now at 40 years old my credit is screwed because the bank is trying to screw me out of $581.
Only option I have left is to borrow against my pickup, which I paid off early but has plenty of equity in it. Don't really want to do that, but my credit score is not going to improve in time for this season. I think what I need to do is advertise and try to put together a good solid list of accounts before I dig any deeper.

nautica1580
04-01-2008, 07:44 PM
Well, I got shot down in flames. Seems a little dispute with my old bank has cost me a bunch of points on my credit score. Was turned down by my credit union, Sheffield, and Capital One. This is amazing. I've had excellent credit all my life, now at 40 years old my credit is screwed because the bank is trying to screw me out of $581.
Only option I have left is to borrow against my pickup, which I paid off early but has plenty of equity in it. Don't really want to do that, but my credit score is not going to improve in time for this season. I think what I need to do is advertise and try to put together a good solid list of accounts before I dig any deeper.

Hang in there man, keep putting forth effort and it will work out. Dont get discouraged and give up. My advice, See exactly how many accounts your able to pick up, see what income that brings and see what your payments would be on the refi of your truck. The banks have really tightened up on loaning money due to the banking giving so many loans during the big real estate boom. Market yourself, keep digging and your going to have that new mower you have your heart set on. I wish you the best of luck man, props on you taking care of your mother- what goes around, comes around. God Bless.

Detroitdan
04-01-2008, 07:47 PM
Thanks Nautica

tsi guy
04-01-2008, 09:17 PM
I'm on your side dan. That guy had to be on drugs ranting like that. There are some people real negitive on here, but alot of them really nice guys. I just bought a ztr with no accounts. But that makes me get out there and find them to make sure my mower pays for it self this year. but I have a full time job that if worst came to shove I can make my 100 a month payment.I just wanted to compete against other lco. with a small w/b it's hard to compete, and real tired of walking. I want to sit and drink my margarita while I work. lol so more power to you and best of luck!!

ALC-GregH
04-01-2008, 09:58 PM
I'm looking at taking out a small business loan from my bank. My credit scores are well over 700. I don't have a job. What's the chances of this happening if I present a well drawn out business plan?

My sister opened her own business (not the same but...) by taking out a loan and she got her loan approved for over 50K. She said she'd help me draw it up.

I really don't need that kind of money. All I want the loan for is to market/advertise my business and get a few pieces of equipment that will allow me to be up to speed to get the jobs done in a timely manner. I want to also have a larger sum in capital to get started. The loan would be for 5 years and with some good strategy's I might have the ability to pay it off much earlier.

Is this a wise move being I don't have a job currently? I can sell very well and have a good personality. My biggest thing is, I do not want to go back to work for someone else ever again. That's my drive and desire.

j05h22
04-02-2008, 01:46 AM
Don't let people scare you, financing is your friend... Controlling your assets is just as good as owning them, sometimes better, just be smart and you'll be just fine.

topsites
04-02-2008, 04:10 AM
All right...

Why not get a new Wb?
Would set you back far less, cost less to operate too.

It's not about being drunk or being a jerk, it's about the fact that you don't seem to be aware of the current economic situation, and what it means. I could've saved you the trip to the bank, but they just told you what I was trying to say, in different words.

The reason I say things the way I do is because even when I come off loud nobody ever listens.
So I don't see how it would register if I came across meekly.

That's just me, and the fact I don't drink or do drugs might have something to do with it.
The effect is similar, never touch the stuff, not even a sip.
I like what that does to the mind, the worst of it is the demons but much beyond that it's smooth sailing.
And you thought you had to have mind altering substances to get high?
Not in this world, try going 100% without, see what that does. :laugh:

.......
btw the demons are actually kind of fun at first.

Exact Rototilling
04-02-2008, 04:28 AM
FWIW,

When you file a dba with your state, it's not uncommon to get those 0% credit card offers for 12 to 18 months etc. in the mail under your biz name. Did you get any of these yet? For what ever reason CC companies always give your business way more rope to hang yourself with than a personal line of credit.

If I was in your shoes I'd avoid the big ticket items and press on until your credit score rises.

My situation is different since I have 0% biz debt which is just that. I have real estate money from the sale of my house in investments that is gaining at a faster rate than 10% per year so it pays to use a teaser rate credit card to fund some expenses. An yes I'm renting & waiting for the housing market to tank before I jump back in. I'm losing way less $ by renting than by paying on a upside down mortgage.

Anyhow a warning to those of you who dive in on those 0% credit card offers. The CC companies are hoping and waiting that you screw up and miss a payment, misplace a bill etc. so they can slam you with mega %.

Trust me - it's way less stress to pay cash. No debt of any kind - no leverage - just cash all the way.

But then again it takes money to make money.

Detroitdan
04-02-2008, 05:26 AM
All right...

Why not get a new Wb?
Would set you back far less, cost less to operate too.I hadn't really thought about it. A new one wouldn't really change the things I don't like about the one I already have

It's not about being drunk or being a jerk, it's about the fact that you don't seem to be aware of the current economic situation, and what it means. I am aware. Things are tough. But I have a stable job and a home, just want to make some more money in my free time

The reason I say things the way I do is because even when I come off loud nobody ever listens.
So I don't see how it would register if I came across meekly.

That's just me, and the fact I don't drink or do drugs might have something to do with it.
The effect is similar, never touch the stuff, not even a sip.
I like what that does to the mind, the worst of it is the demons but much beyond that it's smooth sailing.I'm worried about you.
And you thought you had to have mind altering substances to get high?
Not in this world, try going 100% without, see what that does. :laugh:
I don't drink or do drugs either.
.......
btw the demons are actually kind of fun at first.

I'm not really sure I understand you, but thanks for the participation anyway

Reliable Lawn Care
04-02-2008, 04:06 PM
I've learned this the hard way so many times. Debt is bad. Debt is risky.

If I can help it at all I do everything cash.

You pay SOOOO much more for everything you finance, and in some cases end up upside down in your loan as your asset depreciates.

As far as risk, if anything happened to your income stream it may affect your ability to repay. Think about it, if you pay cash theres monthly payment beating down your mailbox!

It's far better to work harder, wait longer if you have to, and buy everything out-right. You will be much richer in the long run.

I've taken a vow to stop making banks rich. It's a paradigm shift that seems to come from age and experience. I urge you to adopt it as well.

Instead of mowing a couple lawns a week, double that, and buy your zero turn cash.

I 2nd this motion !!!! Best way to operate if a person can

Reliable Lawn Care
04-02-2008, 04:33 PM
Detroitdan, ok, after reading all the messages on this thread, I would just like to offer my 2 cents. I have been there with the bad credit issue. Things really happen to good people. It took a couple of years to get things cleared up and I now sit just fine. You can do the same. I would first get that bank taken care of asap! That is costing your credit greatly. Either pay it or lawyer up if you really feel you are correct in the matter. Loaning institutions don't like negative reports on your report about another loaning company. If that is the only negative on your report, just resolve it and you should be on your way soon. If you have credit cards, get the balance you carry down to 10% or paid off as soon as you can. That will increase your score just about over night. I am getting off track here, but my main point is that it is hard to run from debt. I am not that Suze Orman lady, but I have lived thru similar issues. I now spend alot of time studying economic issues.. I never thought I would have said that back in high school LOL ! For some of the other posters on here, I am Reliable Lawn Care, and I drink BEER !!! No demons, just beer! Seriously , Good luck to you. Think it, be smart about it and do it!!!

Detroitdan
04-02-2008, 06:47 PM
Yeah, I've decided I'm going to do a little refurb on my old WB, try to hook another 8 or 10 lawns and bust my butt, and put everything I take in towards paying off my cards.
That's what I said last winter, too. I was going to take all my plowing money and pay off my Yard Card, then buy a new stander this spring. I made a pile of money plowing, but a lot of it went back into the truck, and a lot went towards heating the house and trying to stay afloat. Stinks that this was my best year ever for plowing, but seems like I've got nothing to show for it.

The old Ferris is pretty beat, but tuned up and running good it really does an awesome job. I've had other 'scapers tell me they are impressed with how my lawns look when I'm done.

Time to tighten my belt and dig in.

ALC-GregH
04-02-2008, 08:24 PM
best of luck to you. I hope you can dig your self out. Keep you head

N.H.BOY
04-09-2008, 08:59 AM
Hey bud....I see you are in Epping...go down to that cub cadet dealer and get a w/b for 0% interrest for three years. I think they are still having this deal on. I got my Tank a few years back when I first started out and all the money I got from my customers I paid that off in two years. When I first started I put an Echo from home depot (biggest they had) and a trimmer and put that on my H.D. card at 0% for 6 months and paid that off just in time before it went up. They only thing I had to buy with help of a loan was my trailer and IMO if I had to buy a trailer, I went with the longest one I can get, because when I started out guys on here told me get the biggest because you will grow into it. And I did and Im glad I got it. It looked funny my first year with just a push mower and a used W/B and one trimmer bunged on the floor. Now I got my Tank with bagger, Exmark hydo 48" W/B with dethater, my W/B blower, three trimmers two backblowers, and push mower. Yes I do have a trimmer rake now...:drinkup:

mngrassguy
04-09-2008, 09:35 AM
Owning a business isn't always as good as it's cracked up to be. I have way more bosses now than I had working for a big LCO. Every customer is a boss, they sign my checks. My wife is a boss, she controls my spending. My biggest boss is my bank, they demand more from me than all of the above.

Borrowing money is almost always the beginning of the end. Just my 2 cents

edgeman2003
04-09-2008, 12:39 PM
I just started in the business and I got a scag turf tiger. I got the 1.9% with sheffield. me, I'm just part time so as long as I can make enough to cover my payment, gas and a few bucks then thats all good.I have a full time job, so even if I made no money or during the winter months, I still can pay my payment. To me a ztr in a good investment, especially the turf tiger. it will pay for it self, so when the right commercial company comes by, I will already be ready to tackle it myself. the best thing to do is get rid of some debt so your ratio looks good to the bank. Credit history only goes so far, they mostly worried about debt-to-income ratio. Thats the biggest part . scores and history are factors also.

Detroitdan
04-09-2008, 02:20 PM
I need to pay off the bank that screwed me, I've fought them and fought them, but I can't win. Once that's paid the "hold" on my credit should be released, so I (hopefully) will be able to buy something. I really wanted a stander but now I'm leaning toward a ZTR because of the availability of a collection system for it, whereas the stander it seems you can only put a grasscatcher basket on. I don't worry too much about picking up grass clippings, but for fall the collection system would be a big help.
But, I'll probably change my mind fourteen times between now and the purchase.

edgeman2003
04-09-2008, 02:53 PM
yeah I know what you mean. so soon as you take care of that you should be fine. Do you have another job or do you only mow? I hope in two years I can go full time. Right now, I do two double shift and a single at my job. So that gives me four days off. Since I work with kids at a behavioral treatment center, it not that bad on my body, its just the mental stress that gets to you. That why mowing grass is peaceful to me. There is no stress with that. even if the bank gives you a high interest rate, I would take it if it your only choice. they tried to give me a high rate 16% on $9,600 vs 1.9%. But my wife was able to co-sign with me to get the lower rate. that rate save me $37.00 per/mo for 36/mo. thats a saving of $1,332 over 3 years. to me that doesnt seem like a big difference from 1.9% to 16%. If it the only choice I have to get the big jobs which are going to be the big money makers, then Im taking the high rate. That just me.

Detroitdan
04-09-2008, 05:30 PM
yeah I know what you mean. so soon as you take care of that you should be fine. Do you have another job or do you only mow? I hope in two years I can go full time. Right now, I do two double shift and a single at my job. So that gives me four days off. Since I work with kids at a behavioral treatment center, it not that bad on my body, its just the mental stress that gets to you. That why mowing grass is peaceful to me. There is no stress with that. even if the bank gives you a high interest rate, I would take it if it your only choice. they tried to give me a high rate 16% on $9,600 vs 1.9%. But my wife was able to co-sign with me to get the lower rate. that rate save me $37.00 per/mo for 36/mo. thats a saving of $1,332 over 3 years. to me that doesnt seem like a big difference from 1.9% to 16%. If it the only choice I have to get the big jobs which are going to be the big money makers, then Im taking the high rate. That just me.

I work fulltime 40+ hours, usually at night or evenings, only occasionally work days. But I pretty much get bounced around the schedule a lot, which blows. But I normally have at least 3 or 4 days a week when I can mow during the day. My day job doesn't pay enough to make my bills, but mowing only pays enough to pay for my equipment. If I take on more I need more equipment, which is more bills. I really don't care as long as the equipment pays for itself.
You're right about the stress, I have one property I mow that is a beautiful 200 y/o farm, when you're on the back side and can't see the road it's like going back in time 100 years. Very relaxing.
Hopefully the bank thing will get settled soon and I can buy. If not, I'm going to try to use my tax return, plus I'm selling some land that my mother owns, maybe she will take pity on me and loan me some money.

edgeman2003
04-09-2008, 10:20 PM
I work fulltime 40+ hours, usually at night or evenings, only occasionally work days. But I pretty much get bounced around the schedule a lot, which blows. But I normally have at least 3 or 4 days a week when I can mow during the day. My day job doesn't pay enough to make my bills, but mowing only pays enough to pay for my equipment. If I take on more I need more equipment, which is more bills. I really don't care as long as the equipment pays for itself.
You're right about the stress, I have one property I mow that is a beautiful 200 y/o farm, when you're on the back side and can't see the road it's like going back in time 100 years. Very relaxing.
Hopefully the bank thing will get settled soon and I can buy. If not, I'm going to try to use my tax return, plus I'm selling some land that my mother owns, maybe she will take pity on me and loan me some money.

Sounds like a plan, I hope everything work out for you. I will pray for you. If not for the lord, I don't know where I would be in my life or even living. I m tankful that I have a loving wife and kids that keep me grounded. good luck with everything

retrodog
04-09-2008, 10:43 PM
Sheffield has high intrest and they will probably want half down. I went in the bank and asked for $6000 and got it. Three weeks later went in a asked for $8000 more and once again got it. I didnt think my credit was all that great but something was right I guess. The bank will usually give you better intrest rates than some place like Sheffield.

Sheffield is usually nothing down, they could care less as long as you fall into their catergories. Pretty much guaranty a 625 or up. Dixie Choppers bank is guarantied financing to anyone with a 575 or up. About the best I know of for bad credit customers.

edgeman2003
04-10-2008, 12:41 AM
also you should be able to re coupe some of the money paid in interest for equipment during tax filing time.

elamey
04-18-2008, 11:58 PM
I don't think it's your credit as much as the economy. Banks (including consumer finance like Yard Card) are REALLY tightening up thier credit qualifications.

All I can say is what I would do. I think the following, with everyone out there cutting my rates in 1/2, I'm lucky and very glad I made the sacrifice to pay my equipment off quickly. I've got a good and paid for rig, including my cheapo truck (i'm a good mower/crappy truck kinda guy) that can sit in my driveway for years if need be. With gas at 4 bucks, no way in h311 i'm doing lawns for $20 bucks. I am not paying someone to do thier lawn.

The second factor i'm considering is with a bad economy, people stop spending on extras, the stocks of many "extras" companies have cratered lately to prove that point. Look up Starbucks and Gators (those funky plastic shoes all the young uns' are wearing), the Gap, etc....stocks all going way down. People will start mowing thier own lawns until this mess is over and that could be a few years.

I'm not saying your decision is a good or bad one, only you know your situation and i'm for you brother. I just know that I am glad I can leave my rig sit and flip burgers in the bad times. Because right now, flipping burgers is looking pretty good compared to doing a 1 hour job for 25-35 bucks.

Best wishes.