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JLC
11-28-2001, 05:09 PM
I've got a lawn that got grub damage this fall and is going to need a major renovation next year. Customer didn't call until the damage was done and it is nasty. The lawn has about 1 inch of thatch in the areas that were hit. Will a tine dethatcher pick this much thatch out of the turf?

HBFOXJr
11-28-2001, 06:12 PM
No dethatcher of any kind will remove this material. If it does, it will remove the remaining lawn. This is why I think dethatching is a joke and a disservice to sell to the client.

Multiple pass core aeration with broadcast seeding or aeration & slit seed is the only way to go.

I did side by side test plots this fall with slit seed (no aeration) and with aeration and broadcast seed and you essentially can't tell the difference in results 90 days later.

Turfdude
11-28-2001, 06:21 PM
JRC,

You may just have to remove these areas i root system is totally gone. Unfortunately if it is as bad as yousay, it is a lot of work and you may nees some soilto replace the bare areas too. I disagree w/ Fox's opinion on thatching not being aviable service. Actually, slit seeding (also known as veticutting or vertipacking) is very rarely used anymore. What I recommend is to thatch bi-directionally, clean-up debris, then aerate 1-2X's and overseed at approx. 5-8 lbs. seed per 1000 SF.

Good luck.

BOB

Kent Lawns
11-28-2001, 06:49 PM
Slit seeding is the same as verticutting?

o...kay.

My advise is to slit seed it and leave the dead grass there to decay as mulch.

mdb landscaping
11-28-2001, 07:12 PM
im no expert on aeration or verticutting, but de thatching is a beneficial service. one, it gets up the thatch. two it loosens up sticks, rocks, and stuck leaves from the winter so the blowers can get it. and three, i think the grass starts to grow faster after thatching since its not all matted down. now as to your question. i guess you could use the jrco to get the dead stuff up, but it would be a lot of work.

GroundKprs
11-28-2001, 09:34 PM
From <a href="http://www.agry.purdue.edu/turf/pubs/ay8.htm">Purdue Turf Document</a>:

"Thatch Control
Thatch is a tightly intermingled organic layer of dead and living shoots, stems, and roots that accumulate just above the soil surface. Thatch accumulation is due to either over-fertilization, over-watering, and/or soil compaction. A neglected lawn will never accumulate a thatch layer whereas an intensely managed lawn will. A small amount of thatch is desirable because it moderates soil temperature fluctuations and provides a cushion on the soil surface. Too much thatch interferes with water and air movement, reduces fertilizer and pesticide response, and increases disease and insect activity. Eventually, roots may start growing in the thatch, and since thatch does not hold much water, the turf then becomes very susceptible to drought stress."

Dethatching machines are power rakes with blades that cut through the thatch down to the soil surface. As the blades revolve, dead and live organic material is torn loose and brought to the surface. Dethatching machines that cut with knives or blades are preferred for their effectiveness. Avoid machines with flexible rake-type tines and dethatchers that attach to your rotary mower blade. Dethatching machines can be rented from rental companies, or dethatching can be done by a professional lawn care company. The organic material removed by the dethatcher must be raked, removed, and used as a mulch or in a compost pile."

If the thatch layer is 0.5 inch or more thick, a number of passes in different directions with the dethatcher will be necessary. Several passes will produce large quantities of refuse, and the lawn will look very ragged for some time. Reseeding may be necessary after dethatching lawns with 0.5 inches or more of thatch. Thatch thicker than 1.0 inch is most easily removed with a sod cutter. A sod cutter set at the soil surface removes the sod easily in light and manageable strips. The lawn must then be reestablished. Although reestablishment is hard work, it is better in the long run."

Note the last sentence!!

Since the lawn is mostly dead, and the thatch is so heavy (BTW, heavy thatch attracts insect and disease damage), best to remove the thatch by multiple power rake passes or sod cutter. If thatch is really 1" (check in different places), the job will be a lot easier using a sod cutter. Cleanup of the refuse of power rake is a REALLY messy job. If using sod cutter, just try to not remove much soil, but get all the thatch.

Trying to seed in this amount of thatch will not be very successful, and the thatch problem will still be there. If you want, go to the link above and print it out for your client, or go here http://www.agry.purdue.edu/turf/pubs/ay-8.pdf for the same document in .PDF format (prints nicer).

And even though they call it a "dethatcher", the JRCO is just an expensive rake.

PaulJ
11-29-2001, 12:48 AM
Jlc

The Jrco dethatcher does a good job of removing thatch, but the key is multiple passed. I've used one on yards thet have taken up to 6 passes to get most of the thatch. Make your passes in different directions. The good thing about a spring dethatcher is it loosens and lifts the thatch WITHOUT damaging the healthy grass and roots.

Now for you situation you might want to consider usion an actual power rake in the damaged areas since the turf is probably pretty much gone anyway. Useing the power rake to loosen the thatch then rake or mow up the residue.

I consider the dethatcher a maintenance tool and the power rake a renovation tool.

joshua
11-29-2001, 01:10 AM
power rake at lowest setting, remove dead grass, add alittle organic compost, seed, starterfert. , straw, and watch it grow

captdevo
11-29-2001, 01:23 AM
been there did this.........


i have had a few customers here in s.e. Iowa with the same problem.

i've never used the jrco, but i use a dethatcher on my Walker GHS and remove the thatch completely.

i have found that if the thatch is thick and has been down for a while it probably contains fungus, disease and insects and is best to remove it.

once thatch is removed, i aerate, re-seed, and fertilize.

i've had great results with this numerous times

GroundKprs
11-29-2001, 02:09 AM
For the guys who think that they are "dethatching" with a spring type or vertical flail type tool or machine, just how do you define "thatch"?

And how do you determine that you have successfully removed a significant amount of thatch?

The best description of dethatching as a maintenance practice was given <a href="http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?postid=16979#post16979">IN THIS POST</a> a year and a half ago: "The purpose of dethatching a lawn is to get the customer to part with their money."

HBFOXJr
11-29-2001, 08:44 AM
We are like minded individuals. Others don't know and can't define thatch.

Guys. I've been at this 30 years. Proper ph, fert practices, watering and mowing will do more for the long term health of the turf than anything.

The statement is quite right that a sod cutter is required. Vertical knives of any kind cut a groove and will remove some thatch while also taking the live turf with it. If you get down to the soil and actually remove 1" of thatch and still have a lawn you'll get a TV show of your own.

Pay attention to what the man says. Your just making and raking up some debris.

MOW ED
11-29-2001, 09:44 AM
The great thing about this site is that we sometimes "think" we know something until we Learn more about it here.

I use the spring tine type rake - Walker calls it a dethatcher - I always thought thats what it did.

On 99 out of 100 lawns this piece of equipment does a nice job of lightly scarifying and lifting some debris as well as the mat of the grass. This is done here in the spring and I must say that it is responsible for 35 percent of my gross for the year. It is what the customer demands but as we know, the customer isn't always right.
In my 6 years I have done more than 500 lawns which is enough for me to see a variety of lawn conditions. The spring tine dethatcher is easy on the lawns and new growth that starts in the spring. There have been a couple of lawns that I tried to "dethatch" with the spring tine and had very poor results. These were the lawns with a true thatch problem.

I tried multiple passes with a little better luck but soon found that time spent was not worth the final result. I now will closely inspect any potential new "dethatching" job before I show up for the actual work. This gives me the chance to either use the vertical mower, flail rake, verticutter or whatever the regional naming favorite name of the machine is , (BTW I know that there are knives on the cutter and springs of on the mower, naming conventions can be discussed later)

I do not believe in running equipment over a lawn and not doing a service, I also do not agree with what some guys do around here as far as running a vertical mower over a lawn that doesn't have thatch every year. I believe that some thatch is beneficial and necessary for healthy turf.

It comes down to knowing what we are doing as professionals and I strive to continually learn. If you know what you are looking at then you can solve the problem. You have to know what thatch is in order to take care of a thatch PROBLEM. Your customers are paying you to be more than an equipment operator. Act and know like a pro and get paid like a pro.

Listen to GroundKprs and Mr. HBFOXJr. These gents have been on many lawns and are excellent knowledge bases, if you don't agree then pick up some Turf books and start reading.

Runner
11-29-2001, 12:13 PM
It is CERTainly true, that a JRCO rake is NOT a dethatcher. While this piece of equipment does an EXCELLENT job at rakeovers, especially in the spring, when the grass is matted, and there are leaves and sticks stuck down in the soil, it does NOT lift a whole layer of thatch - no matter HOW many times you go over it. (In some extreme instances, I'll go over it twice with the JRCO. This does pull SOME material up to the surface. When you actually dethatch with a machine, you will get an entire BLANKET of material out of the subsoil. Because it is "fluffed" when it comes up, it's hard to believe how much actully comes out of a lawn. I am talking tarps upon tarps! Now, we were always taught (and I follow) not to do any actual dethatching, unless it is so extreme, that it is believed that core-aeration will not loosen it, or it is so heavy that dethatching and replenishing time will actually be faster than the slower decomposition after aeration. We were ALSO taught that while this can be don at anytime, it is BEST done in the early fall. At this time, live grass and rhyzomes are well established and healthy, as opposed to Spring, when they are still weak from coming out of dormancy, and are not fully and firmly rooted yet. I have two dethatchers, and haven't used either one of them in years, now. I DO however, use my JRCO quite a bit in the springtime, as I can rake and pick up a whole lawn in a matter of minutes.:) (I wish I would have had this years ago) It's nice, because you can lift the grass, and let air and light in, and it turns green faster. I never charge as an actual "dethatching", but simply state it as a "rakeover and pickup of all turf areas." O.k., I'll step down now.:D

GroundKprs
11-29-2001, 02:03 PM
Hey, Runner, a question: have you ever done half of a property with the JRCO, and compared the weed pressures during the year on the treated and untreated areas?

I use the Bluebird F-20 "lawn comber", flails on reel, and used to do a small commercial property every year in spring because of the buildup of butts and other smaller debris. But the weed pressure there was immense, much worse than any other property. Finally did 1/2 one year and found that the "dethatching" increased weed pressure by 500% to 800%. It seems to me that the light fluffing of the JRCO may not remove so much of the vegetative debris on the soil surface, compared to flail or spring reels, and then you would not have so much soil surface open for successful weed germination.

And it's nice to see someone else considers the JRCO a rake, instead of a "dethatcher."

Runner
11-29-2001, 03:54 PM
Jim,
That's an interesting thought, and something to consider. I have never done any sort of comparison of any type, although, I can tell that the combing helps it come out of dormancy faster. (can tell by the ones NOT done). It makes sense though, like you say, because let's think of it. Here we are, opening up greater spans in the soil of no surface vegetation. (not huge ares, this is taking place within fractions of an inch). Now, comes the perfect time of year for weeds and new germination to take place. This is culminated bt a season's worth of weed seeds being distibuted. Without, and/or before a PreM is put down, this is perfect opportunity for this "new" (undesirable) vegetation to grow.
This next season, however, I'll be doing the same thing as I did this last season when starting. I hit my props with one last app. of 24-5-11, and in the early spring, right when the grass JUST starts coming out of dormancy, and it's still all brown, I go in and cut it right down low. When I do this, it explodes! It all turns real green that vary week, and in the few weeks following, my customers have a green flourishing lawn, while all the others (that I don't do) on the street, are still brown. People love it, and I'm cutting sometimes twice a week, and they have the nicest looking lawns in the neighborhood.:)
I do also agree with Kentlawns, though, that if you are able to use a sliceseeder, like the Lesco Renovator, - (worth it's weight in gold), then I don't bother removing the old top layer. It works well to help absorb and retain moisture. I just hit the area with Roundup, to kill off any chickweed or anything else infiltrating the area, and come back and graph it a week later. It fills right in, and you would never even know it looked like that. That is if you can keep the freakin' MOLES out of there! This is of course, after the cause of the damage has been treated, as well.

HBFOXJr
11-29-2001, 07:56 PM
Do us a favor and buy a cooking/meat thermometer capable of lower readings. Then next spring when you have some mowed short lawns compare temps on yours vs. other s every day for a week or 2. Could be the crew cut lets the soil warm up faster.

Let us know. Thanks.

captdevo
11-29-2001, 08:34 PM
terminology is everything.......

Thatch is a tightly interwoven layer of living and dead tissue existing between the green vegetation and soil surface.

It is composed primarily of products from stems, leaf sheaths, and roots that are fairly resistant to decay.

Although a little thatch improves the wear tolerance of a lawn, excessive thatch harbors disease organisms and insects making the lawn more susceptible to damage from disease and drought.
In many lawns, organic matter is produced faster than it can decompose and thatch gradually develops. Several factors determine the rate of thatch development by affecting how fast organic matter is produced or by affecting its rate of decomposition.

These factors increase thatch development in grass by increasing production of stems, leaf sheaths, and decay-resistant tissue:

*choosing particularly vigorously growing grass varieties
*applying excessive amounts of nitrogen, especially in spring
*mowing infrequently or allowing grass to grow too tall before mowing
*growing varieties that are known to produce large amounts of tough, fibrous tissue
*compacted soil conditions leading to shallow root development

These factors decrease the rate at which thatch decomposes:
*acidic soil conditions
*pesticides that restrict micro-organism or earthworm activity
*allowing lawns to go dormant

Generally, the more aggressively grass is growing, the faster it will develop a thatch layer. Newer, improved varieties of Kentucky bluegrass that have been developed for vigorous growth and better recovery on athletic fields and high-quality home lawns develop thatch more quickly than the less vigorously growing common types of Kentucky bluegrass. Fine fescue lawns, though less vigorous in growth than Kentucky bluegrass, can form dense thatch because the plant tissues are more fibrous and resistant to decomposition.

Adequate levels of plant nutrients are essential for healthy lawns; however, excessive amounts, particularly nitrogen, stimulate too much production of stems and leaves increasing thatch development. Infrequent mowing also increases thatch development because more of the plant growth goes into producing stems and other parts of the plant that are resistant to decay. The primary time for stem growth is spring and early summer. Reduce spring applications of nitrogen so as not to encourage additional stem growth.

Other factors increase thatch development by limiting the rate at which organic matter is decomposed. Decomposition is principally accomplished through the activity of micro-organisms, earthworms, and insects. Acidic soil conditions or poor soil aeration reduce the activity of most organisms involved in the breakdown of organic matter. Using insecticides or fungicides may also reduce the amount and activity of organisms in the thatch.

To determine the amount of thatch accumulation, remove a two-inch deep, pie-shaped wedge from the lawn and measure the amount of thatch between the soil surface and green vegetation. If the layer is one-half inch or less, it usually is not a problem. If, however, the layer exceeds one-half inch, a program of thatch management should be started.

Thatch control may include both prevention and removal. Preventing excessive thatch should concern all homeowners and turf managers interested in maintaining a high-quality lawn. A thatch removal program should be considered any time thatch has accumulated in a layer more than one-half inch thick.

While you can remove thatch in spring, fall removal is preferred because it results in fewer weed seeds sprouting. Remove thatch when two or three weeks of reasonable growing conditions still remain before weather turns too hot in summer or six weeks before soil freezes in autumn - usually the end of September or early October


true, the Walker dethatcher is just a "rake"


the question at hand was removing the thatch left behind by grubs.


as i stated before i have used this "rake" for the same problem with less cost and effort than sod cutters, slicers or anything else with great results.....

GroundKprs
11-29-2001, 09:20 PM
Hello, Harold. Runner is just about 100 miles NE of me, so he has similar weather conditions. Out here we mow short to stimulate growth in the springtime. No, mowing it short in Feb won't make it green, LOL. Just when it is starting to break dormancy, cutting the leaves short stimulates new leaf growth, so you get a lot more new green leaves more quickly. This, in combo with a late fall fertilizer application give you the spring greenup. The late fall app must be done after leaf elongation has ceased, but the leaves are still green; at this time the grass will make food for storage for spring growth. Timing has become hairy in the last few years for this last app. I just did mine a week ago, and it's supposed to be back in the 50s here next week. Hope I don't have to mow into Jan. LOL But lawns mowed 10 days ago might need it again. Leaf elongation generally ceases after 2-3 hard frosts (late Oct here), but so far we've only had one light frost.

I assume the short mowing would get the same effect anywhere on any grass when it is coming out of dormancy. Even zoysia here, when it is at 25% greenup, cut as short as possible, will be a great green within 10 days. Others not cut short will take longer.

The short mowing here would not help to increase soil temp that dramatically, because it is a slow process. Soil mass and cool nights compensate for sunny days.

GroundKprs
11-29-2001, 09:34 PM
It would be helpful to all members if you would give a source for your information. I try to provide a link so others can review the document(s) and save them for their own future use.

You may be using data from an area with problem soil, or outdated information. In this area, thatch = mismanagement, plain and simple. But to be honest, if I would move my business 200 miles, I would have to learn the new environment all over again.

And if you are using your "rake" to grind away 1" of thatch, you will be grinding for quite a while. And let's say you are doing 1000 ft² of this 1" thatch. With my sod cutter I will get a little over 3 - 4 cu yd of compacted thatch, just roll it up and throw in trailer. With your ground fluff, you will have at least 10 - 12 cu yds to pick up and dispose of.

PaulJ
11-29-2001, 10:46 PM
If you want to remove thatch then use a dethatcher properly (multiple passes) . If you want to remove soil, roots, grass, and maybe a sprinkler head or two, and generally tear the sh#* ot of things then use a power rake/ slicer/ verticutter/etc... :blob4: :blob4:

GroundKprs
11-30-2001, 12:09 AM
If it stops raining here tomorrow, I will get some pictures so you can understand what thatch really is. As others, in the business for many years, have stated in this thread, you cannot successfully remove thatch with a JRCO.

Try this once: walk up to a JRCO booth at a trade show, and ask the rep: "Why do you name the tool a dethatcher, when it doesn't do anything to the thatch layer?" The only answer they have given me is to turn their backs and walk away from me muttering. ROFLMAO on that one.

When I get the pics, it will be in a new thread "What really is thatch?"

And a little suggestion on sprinkler heads: all my irrigated properties are tape measured and mapped to locate heads exactly, and heads are flagged by me before any work that could damage them. So I can start work in spring before irrigation is turned on, and easily find heads that haven't been up for 4-5 months. The time for flagging is added to the time for the job. The time for initial mapping is covered by the pricing of all services on new accounts at 5.26% higher than established accounts for the first two years, so that my time in learning the property (like the irrigation mapping) is covered. Clients actually save in the long run by not having to call for irrigation repairs.

JLC
11-30-2001, 08:37 AM
Hey guys, thanks for the overwhelming amount of information. Sorry I haven't had a chance to reply yet. I will try to post some more details of the property this weekend (if excite@home doesn't get shut down and I loose my cable modem). The lawn seriously does have an inch of thatch in some areas. It is in nasty shape. I've been looking at the Purdue documents and will post what I think I will be proposing in terms of lawn renovation to get your thoughts.

Ben

kutnkru
11-30-2001, 05:56 PM
Here is a little bit more education on the terms associated with these services for those interested.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11533

Hope this too helps.
Kris

PaulJ
11-30-2001, 11:41 PM
Jim--

I know that it is a must to mark all sprinkler heads when using a power rake (or any equipment that DIGS into the soil and rootzone). My comment above was "sarcasm" :rolleyes:
and to make a point that a power rake (or slicer or verticuter) digs deeper than nessecary to remove thatch in most situiations. At least in my area with mainly bluegrass lawns, some fescues, and a few zoiyza.

Do you feel it neccesary to remove grass, soil, and roots to get the thatch? Somewhere the damage to the turf starts to outway the benefit of the thatch romoval.

I have used a tine dethatcher on lawns and seen them benifit from it, and I have seen similar lawns "tore up" with power rakes and take MUCH longer to recover from the damage caused by the machine.

lawrence stone
11-30-2001, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by The Groundskeeper
Jim--

I know that it is a must to mark all sprinkler heads when using a power rake (or any equipment that DIGS into the soil and rootzone). My comment above was "sarcasm" :rolleyes:
and to make a point that a power rake (or slicer or verticuter) digs deeper than nessecary to remove thatch in most situiations. At least in my area with mainly bluegrass lawns, some fescues, and a few zoiyza.

Do you feel it neccesary to remove grass, soil, and roots to get the thatch? Somewhere the damage to the turf starts to outway the benefit of the thatch romoval.

I have used a tine dethatcher on lawns and seen them benifit from it, and I have seen similar lawns "tore up" with power rakes and take MUCH longer to recover from the damage caused by the machine.

Maybe you should learn how to adjust your equipment better.

I have a snapper (kees) power rake and I can either lighly comb like a jrco or make a new seed bed for the renovation an entire area.

If you don't rake bluegrass once a year in early spring you are setting yourself to a season of potential problems espically if you return the clippings into the turf.

If you want to mulch the entire season and you have to bite the bullet and do a rake, plug job, and apply fert w/pre-m asap as soon as the ground can be worked in March.

GroundKprs
12-01-2001, 12:24 AM
Sorry, Paul.

I was trying to help the initiator of this thread, who asked about a dead lawn area. The loyalty of JRCO users to their tools was causing them to feed this man erroneous information. There was no turf for him to damage by removing thatch in the most efficient manner.

And, yes, most any lawn with 1" of thatch is in need of major remedy. If the client wishes to wait a few years, it can be accomplished by less destructive means. But if the client wishes a proper, more timely repair, I would be powerraking, not just picking his pocket with a surface scratching JRCO.

PaulJ
12-01-2001, 12:34 AM
LS--

I know how to set a power rake. But I have seen alot of damage done by those who don't. I have used one in cases of extreme thatch, and for renovations.

If you can use your power rake like a jrco then why not use a jrco?

As far as mulching all the time-- I don't.. I bag grass when neccesary (if removing more than 1/3 of the blade or if the custumer insists).

What works well here is core arreation every year and a jrco or similar dethatcher every 1 to 2 years.

I aggree exsecive thatch can be prevented with proper management . Some of us don't have the luxury of having control over the total lawn care system for all our custumers. They water, they fertilize ( or hire someone else), they say " my dead husband always bagged the grass so you have to too" .

Well thats all for now, we might have to just agree to disagree on this one




Paul

PaulJ
12-01-2001, 12:44 AM
GroundKprs--

I must have been typing my last post at the same time you were. If you'll look back at my first post of this thread (right after yours from Purdue) I agreed that a jrco is probably not for his situation, but can remove regular thatch.

bye
paul

GroundKprs
12-01-2001, 10:40 AM
Any additional one-on-one debate of this thread should be continued by email or PM. I hope I have made the point to most readers that thatch is a word that is often misused in our industry. Many well intentioned people do services that they think are performing a function for the plants, but in fact these services are just cosmetic.

I was just trying to get a common definition for the term "thatch", so that future discussion of it could be on the same plane. For two years on Chuck's boards I have seen the term used very loosely, while there is a specific definition. But note immediately above that after days of input, a new term '"regular" thatch' appears. It would help all of us to communicate better if there was an agreed definition for terms we commonly use.

With this in mind, I started a thread <a href="http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22508">What really is thatch?</a>, to try to get a single definition for thatch. If someone has any input on enhancing (simplifying, not complication) this definition, please post to that thread.

lawrence stone
12-01-2001, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by The Groundskeeper
LS--

If you can use your power rake like a jrco then why not use a jrco?



Well because the jrco is nothing but a front mounted rake the works great once you get the thatch under control by first using a power rake.

I use my tine rake 46"/power rake combo twice a year in March and August.

If I can get my hands on a hydro traction unit for my 62' deck I will upgrade to a 60" rake.

JLC
12-02-2001, 09:40 PM
Well guys I was at the lawn yesterday and it seriously has approx. 1 inch of thatch over the entire front lawn (12000 sq ft). Took several core samples with a soil sampler. Obviously it is quite clear now that this is not the job for the JRCO. No way possible. Sad part is that the problem is so bad now the remaining good grass will be ripped out because 95 percent of the root system is in the thatch layer. Very little of the grass roots are rooting into the soil. It is making me sick to think about using a sod cutter on the whole thing, but something drastic will have to be done. I wonder if a properly set power rake would to the trick. I know there would be a lot of fluff, but I'm equiped to handle it efficiently. Then I could go back through in two directions with a slicer seeder/Lesco renovator to reseed the whole area. Might poke holes with an aerator between those steps and add lime and the starter fertilizer. The PH is pretty low (soil test says it needs 100# per thousand). I just applied 20-25# per thousand. Purdue website says to poke 20 to 40 holes per square foot with the largest tines possible. Does the 40 sound excessive to anyone? How would you go about renovating this lawn? Thanks.

Runner
12-02-2001, 10:01 PM
Yes, I have to admit, 20 per sq.ft. is a whole bunch but 40 per sq. ft.? I think they also call that ah...................roto-tilling. If you are going to use a slice seeder on it, hey, you're in great shape. Strip that stuff out of there with a dethatcher, (a real one), lay the lime and phosphorus to it, and slice your seeds in. Always go two directions with the seed, of course!:)

GreenStar
12-04-2001, 02:51 PM
remove the damaged area's and re-sod. treat with a prevenative insectacide easy as that.

GroundKprs
12-05-2001, 10:39 PM
JLC, be sure to plan for a lot of junk:

12,000 ft² x 1" = 1000 cu ft = 37 cu yd.

With a sod cutter the actual cutting will take longer that 2-3 passes of a powerrake. But the powerrake will fluff it up dramatically. Do you want 37 cuyd of sod cut thatch, or 100 cuyd of fluff?