Nice to rent .......but not to own

[ConstSvcs]

Renting certain pieces of iron has always been a favorite part of the job. At least the ones with the real heavy price tags that we don't use often.

The 624 made moving fill at our recent project a snap since space was to confined for an dump. What a powerhouse !

[Gravel Rat]

Deere has come a long ways in their loaders. I think they can pretty well now rival Cat and leave Krapmatsu at the dealer.

[Dirt Digger2]

why not go with a trackloader?

[coopers]

Any more pics of that nice looking loader?

[Scag48]

I think they can pretty well now rival Cat and leave Krapmatsu at the dealer.

Have you run a Komatsu loader? They're pretty nice. I was in a WA200-5 at the grounds a few weeks ago, loved it. Compared to a Deere 744H which isn't a slouch machine either, I really liked the Komatsu, size differences aside between the two. I hear the new Deere's are nice, but the H is the newest I've run.

[ConstSvcs]

why not go with a trackloader?

We move backfill in and around a fairly large foundation and loaded structural fill into tri axles at the same time. We felt this was the right machine for production using one machine and operator.

[ConstSvcs]

Any more pics of that nice looking loader?

Yep......I'l have to find them

[bobcat_ron]

A wheel loader is the better choice over a tracked loader when the soil you are driving on is still hard and dry and it still makes less disturbance and gives a smoother ride than the tracked.

[Dirt Digger2]

A wheel loader is the better choice over a tracked loader when the soil you are driving on is still hard and dry and it still makes less disturbance and gives a smoother ride than the tracked.

i agree, he said space was an issue so i was wondering why he opted out of a trackloader that can spin 360...fun looking job, i agree we need more pictures

[Gravel Rat]

The mines have tried Komatsu and they last 1/2 as long as a Cat. One of the mines thought they could save some money running Komatsu wheel loaders guess what they didn't they are back to Cat.

I can't imagine loading trucks quickly with a track loader we have tried a older 2.5 yard trackloader when the backhoe was broke down. It was painfully slow it dug into the piles easier than the 590 backhoe but traveled slower.

You get a person that is good on a wheel loader they can whip around get the truck loaded in no time. If you have a 950-966 size machine then it takes a little longer not like a 980 or 988. Get a 88 with a spade bucket on it goes into a pile scoops up 9-10 yards and drops into the truck.

If the machine isn't tiller steer and has a steering wheel you gotta have a suicide ball on the steering wheel :laugh:

[bobcat_ron]

Tiller steer? Is that like a U shaped steering wheel?

[Gravel Rat]

Nope it a joy stick I can't remember which side its on but it controls the steering gear shifting. A few years ago I got to run a brand spanking new 988
it was being shipped to one of the mines.

The tiller steer was designed for the constant turning like dig and load but they don't work well for long distance hauling like dig a bucket full then run to the jaw crusher couple thousand feet away. When the traveling distance is 1/4 to 1/2 a kilometer it is cheaper to use ADT.

The 988 that went to the mine was the one of the first ones Finnings sold. The mine was sort of the guinea pig the operators had to have a day at school to run the machine properly.

Oh the sound of power was impressive I don't know what the 988s were powered with 10 years ago.

[BIGBEN2004]

The mines have tried Komatsu and they last 1/2 as long as a Cat. One of the mines thought they could save some money running Komatsu wheel loaders guess what they didn't they are back to Cat.

I can't imagine loading trucks quickly with a track loader we have tried a older 2.5 yard trackloader when the backhoe was broke down. It was painfully slow it dug into the piles easier than the 590 backhoe but traveled slower.

You get a person that is good on a wheel loader they can whip around get the truck loaded in no time. If you have a 950-966 size machine then it takes a little longer not like a 980 or 988. Get a 88 with a spade bucket on it goes into a pile scoops up 9-10 yards and drops into the truck.

If the machine isn't tiller steer and has a steering wheel you gotta have a suicide ball on the steering wheel :laugh:

Have you ran a newer track loader recently. The new 953's and 963's could easily out perform a wheel loader on a tight job sight. They are not tipsy when raising the loader in the air and turning like a wheel loader. I feel a track loader is a hard machine to replace. They can do almost anything. I can load trucks, dig foundations and carry the dirt anywhere I need it to balance the lots off, spread stone in driveways, carry dirt, fine grade, demolition, land clearing, heavy mud mucking jobs, ect. They are a great all around machine to have. I have even dug frost footers with a 953C. Their only downside is they are pricey and like to drank the fuel in a day.

[Gravel Rat]

The newest trackloader in the area nowwadays is 1980 but their is CTLs if you call them a production machine.

Any truck loading now is done with a excavator. Even in the mines wheel loaders are not used to load trucks. A large mass excavator something like a Hitachi 400 or larger with a big digging bucket loading ADT 8 hours a day.

On jobsites if you have to move fill around the site you build a road so the gravel truck can get near the pile to move. Then use a 16-20 ton excavator load the truck.

I said this before but if you walked into a Finning Branch (Caterpillar) and said I would like to order a brandnew trackloader they wouldn't have any salesmen old enough to even know what a
trackloader looks like :laugh:

[stuvecorp]

Trackloader over a wheel loader? The wheel loader every time, especially a J series Deere.

[P.Services]

Trackloader over a wheel loader? The wheel loader every time, especially a J series Deere.

i agree, i havnt seen a track loader in 10 years. the only place they belong is on a big building demo job.

[stuvecorp]

Here is some pictures from 07, did some pushbacks.

Another benefit to the wheel loader, don't have to trailer it to the jobsite.

[ConstSvcs]

OK.................more eye candy, More loader on the job pics, the site and something that keeps running strong............the 790 with 12,000 plus hrs :weightlifter:

[Dirt Digger2]

ConstSvc very nice...any more specifics on the job? I get turned on by engineering stuff :dancing:...haha


But on another note trackloaders and wheel loaders are in their element in two different terrains...but to say a trackloader can't match the performance of a wheel loader is completely false. Thats all they use to load trucks around here. Heck we have an old 955L, the guy running it one day loaded 100 tri-axles in 8 hours...can a wheel loader do the same thing?...sure, but its just going to prove that maybe GR thinks trackloaders are obsolete, but with someone that actually knows how to run one they are the extreme multi-purpose go anywhere machine...my boss likes them so much we have 3...and no wheel loaders

[ksss]

Its interesting how those things never caught on out here in the West. I would think for difficult on site conditions they would be better than a wheel loader, however other than I would think the slower ground speed would be a factor as well as what appears to be lower dump height. They certainly have a place. I just cant get over what they cost. Over 200K new, that is crazy for a dozer with a loader mounted on it? What am I a missing, why all the money?

[coopers]

I just cant get over what they cost. Over 200K new, that is crazy for a dozer with a loader mounted on it? What am I a missing, why all the money?

I agree with you on that one.

[bobcat_ron]

I agree with you on that one.


I've seen the price on a new D4K here, trust me, $175,000 is just the starter price, no EROPS or LGP yet. $200,000 isn't that far off for a new 963D.

[Dirt Digger2]

Over 200K new, that is crazy for a dozer with a loader mounted on it? What am I a missing, why all the money?

that is exactly why...they are a dozer...they will run through whatever you put in its way. If you take a trackloader and wheel loader that both weigh the same the track loader will out preform any day...pushing through piles, traction, drawbar pull, maneuverability...you name it...plus the fact the center of gravity is lower so they are much more stable on a slope then a wheel loader

[ksss]

that is exactly why...they are a dozer...they will run through whatever you put in its way. If you take a trackloader and wheel loader that both weigh the same the track loader will out preform any day...pushing through piles, traction, drawbar pull, maneuverability...you name it...plus the fact the center of gravity is lower so they are much more stable on a slope then a wheel loader

I can see where on some sites all that is true. However when your on an improved site with some asphalt or concrete, larger sites with involving greater distances that a wheel loader would be much faster with reduced maintainance. I am sure a track loader would be a good initial machine to put on a job expecially if the site conditions are nasty. It just seems like they bring a lot of money for what they do. I was surprised at how cheap some of the hourly rates are that have been posted for these things judging by what they cost.

[Dirt Digger2]

haha thats why we have 3...we work small sites with mud/dirt everywhere. We primarily dig/backfill basements with them, but we also cut driveways, load trucks and do other "fun" things with them

[Gravel Rat]

I have run trackloaders and I know what they can do and I liked running the old 1970s Cat trackloader. It was good for spreading the coarse rip rap rock then packing it down so it isn't too rough for the trucks.

Wheelloaders are not used on jobsites either the gound is just too uneven so if you have lots of material to move a rubber tired hoe is used.

[Scag48]

I've seen the price on a new D4K here, trust me, $175,000 is just the starter price, no EROPS or LGP yet. $200,000 isn't that far off for a new 963D.

What?! I priced a new D5K on Cat's website, loaded up minus LGP but with cab and a/c it was like $160K.

[Gravel Rat]

Smaller dozers hold their value I know even old D7 sized machines sell for 40-60 grand and I mean old 15-20 years old.

[bobcat_ron]

What?! I priced a new D5K on Cat's website, loaded up minus LGP but with cab and a/c it was like $160K.


It's always a tad bit higher here due to the currency conversion, road tariffs, fuel surcharges, battery taxes and PDI Levy.

[Scag48]

Oh yeah, you guys get shafted pretty good with all the taxes, forgot about that.

[02DURAMAX]

Thats a nice lookin loader!..what size would that be in a Cat?

[Scag48]

Thats a nice lookin loader!..what size would that be in a Cat?

The 624J is about the same as a Cat 938 in both weight and horsepower.

[Gravel Rat]

The other problem is Finning holds a pretty good monopoly on Cat machines seeing as they are the only dealer in Western Canada.

[BIGBEN2004]

The other problem is Finning holds a pretty good monopoly on Cat machines seeing as they are the only dealer in Western Canada.

That is how Cat is everywhere. They have dealerships that have multiple locations under the same name. I know where I live the dealer is ALBAN CAT. If I want to buy a machine from them I can only go to the ALBAN dealer that is in my district. I can not just go to any ALBAN and get better prices. I can not go to PA or VA and get a machine from the Cat dealers their. It is how they keep their dealers more equal on sales and can keep them in business. I know John Deere is starting to do the same thing at least on the AG side. If the machine is used then I can buy it anywhere but if it is new then that is how it works.

[Dirt Digger2]

BIGBEN that sounds like they are giving you a bunch of B.S....its your money, you should be able to spend it where and how you want. I bet if you were to tell them "F-this, I'm going to go buy a Case or Deere" then they might treat you differently. I know around me there is Ransome Cat...but then an hour up the turnpike is Cleavland Brothers Cat...so i guess we have a little more "selection"

[Gravel Rat]

Alberta used to have Angus Caterpillar but Finning's bought them out so now Finning is the largest Cat dealer. They also are dealer in UK and a few overseas locations. They have 12,000 employees :dizzy:

[Scag48]

BIGBEN that sounds like they are giving you a bunch of B.S....its your money, you should be able to spend it where and how you want. I bet if you were to tell them "F-this, I'm going to go buy a Case or Deere" then they might treat you differently. I know around me there is Ransome Cat...but then an hour up the turnpike is Cleavland Brothers Cat...so i guess we have a little more "selection"

Yeah, you can, because they are two different independently owned dealerships. What Bigben was talking about is the same for most dealerships running multiple locations. NC Machinery is the Cat dealership in WA, they have 6 or 7 locations throughout WA, but you can't drive across the state and pick up a machine for less, they won't sell it to you. Unless you have a fake address that isn't your place of business, you're SOL.

[Dirt Digger2]

yea...i know that, i was saying...for example Ransome has a few different locations...one in Delaware...if i want to go down to Delaware to buy a machine with no tax and they won't sell it to me because i have a different dealer closer by, then i would tell them where to stick it and go buy a Case or Deere...are they really that concerned on where you buy it? you would think that if the check says "Ransome" it all goes into the same bank account

[Scag48]

I see what you're saying now. I still think they'd tell you to pound sand, I guess it would have to be one of those situations where you'd really have to be in it to figure out which way it would go.

[BIGBEN2004]

I know a local large excavation company in my area purposely bought ground in VA and PA so that they could use those addresses and buy machines at better cost. They could compare prices that way. If I were to go to VA or PA they would not sell to me since I have a MD address. It sucks but what can I do. Don't buy Cat is one way....... No just kidding, if they have a machine that I want and I can afford it then I will have a Cat. I don't just look at one brand I give them all a chance and buy what fits my needs and budget the best.

[Construct'O]

This has been discussed some before ,but it has to do with warranty claims.

They can sell out of their territory,but if they get caught they will have to pay warranty money giving too them(seller) to the dealer that the machine was sold in.

It is up too the dealer if they want to take the chance,or if the customer wants to return the machine back to the dealer he bought it from for warranty work.

Sometimes the sales rep is the one that turns the machine into Cat for being in his territry and not sold by him.In which he didn't get his commisson for the sale also.

Plus if caught i'm sure Cat hears about it and dealer would hear from Cat in return.:usflag:

[Fieldman12]

I started out on a Cat 931 C track loader and have also run wheel loaders. The track loaders are great as far as pushing power and working in mud. A wheel loader is great when you need to move some wheres fast and working on pavement. Another thing that i think slows a track loader down especially on the old ones is when turning. One track is for the most part doing all the turn. On a wheel loader your not only turning in then middle but your other wheels are still turning just at a slower speed. Im sure though the newer track loaders are much quicker and make better use of the tracks while turning.

[BIGBEN2004]

I started out on a Cat 931 C track loader and have also run wheel loaders. The track loaders are great as far as pushing power and working in mud. A wheel loader is great when you need to move some wheres fast and working on pavement. Another thing that i think slows a track loader down especially on the old ones is when turning. One track is for the most part doing all the turn. On a wheel loader your not only turning in then middle but your other wheels are still turning just at a slower speed. Im sure though the newer track loaders are much quicker and make better use of the tracks while turning.

A 931C is not a very good track loader to run as a comparison. I would never consider them as a track loader. Now a 953C or a 963C is what I am used to running and that is what I always compare things too. Also the new D series look incredible and I want to run one the first chance I get. The nice thing about a track loader is how versicle a machine they are. You can dig a basement with them and can't dig one with a wheel loader. You can carry dirt and grade yards over a very large area which you can't do with a track hoe. You can put them on very steep slopes or in very muddy conditions which you can't do with a wheel loader. They can do so much and they only require one machine and one operator. What makes me mad is when people say they don't like them and then in the same sentence say that the one they ran was a 1970 something Cat 955 loader. They have improved like everything else to an incredible extent. They are nothing like they used to be. Once they introduced the first rear mounted engine loader they have evolved into something that was once looked at as a slow dinosaurs into a quick nimble machine ready to tackle almost any job at hand. They are a hard piece of machine to work with out at least on the east coast. I say for anyone that thinks they are useless to try and get some seat time in a newer machine. They have come a long away especially in the past 10 years.

[Dirt Digger2]

atleast 2 of us support track loaders...BIGBEN i got your back...haha

new track loaders counter-rotate, much like a CTL. They have Hydrostatic transmissions so theres is infinite speed...not like the old powershift models

i imagine you can get the twin stick loader controls in wheel loaders?....i like running those a lot more then 1 joystick

[stuvecorp]

A 931C is not a very good track loader to run as a comparison. I would never consider them as a track loader. Now a 953C or a 963C is what I am used to running and that is what I always compare things too. Also the new D series look incredible and I want to run one the first chance I get. The nice thing about a track loader is how versicle a machine they are. You can dig a basement with them and can't dig one with a wheel loader. You can carry dirt and grade yards over a very large area which you can't do with a track hoe. You can put them on very steep slopes or in very muddy conditions which you can't do with a wheel loader. They can do so much and they only require one machine and one operator. What makes me mad is when people say they don't like them and then in the same sentence say that the one they ran was a 1970 something Cat 955 loader. They have improved like everything else to an incredible extent. They are nothing like they used to be. Once they introduced the first rear mounted engine loader they have evolved into something that was once looked at as a slow dinosaurs into a quick nimble machine ready to tackle almost any job at hand. They are a hard piece of machine to work with out at least on the east coast. I say for anyone that thinks they are useless to try and get some seat time in a newer machine. They have come a long away especially in the past 10 years.

Ben, I like track loaders but for the majority of us they just don't pencil out. I've run a 855 loading trucks and some grading but I will probably never run one again. We have done almost everything a crawler loader can do with a wheel loader, I can plow with a wheel loader (during the winter of course), load trucks, road it to the next jobsite and strip topsoil and drive it back to the shop. The big tires are expensive but so are undercarriages. An excavator with a skid or wheel loader will work better from my experience.

[BIGBEN2004]

atleast 2 of us support track loaders...BIGBEN i got your back...haha

new track loaders counter-rotate, much like a CTL. They have Hydrostatic transmissions so theres is infinite speed...not like the old powershift models

i imagine you can get the twin stick loader controls in wheel loaders?....i like running those a lot more then 1 joystick

I agree the two lever once used to it is the best for control and accuracy. At first I must say I hated them but now after almost 4,000 Hrs on track loaders I feel that I would never want a joystick, at least in a track loader. It amazes me how track loaders are not popular in the west. Everyone I know that runs track loaders I tell them how they are not used in the West. They always ask how they rough grade yards I tell them with a dozer. Then they ask how they dig basements and I say with a Track hoe. Then they ask how they load trucks I say with rubber tire loaders. Then they laugh and say how would they load trucks in some of the situations we are in like steep slopes that separate the trucks from the pile or very long stretches of mud and muck. I say beats me.

[Dirt Digger2]

Then they laugh and say how would they load trucks in some of the situations we are in like steep slopes that separate the trucks from the pile or very long stretches of mud and muck. I say beats me.

waste time and money stripping the mud or making a temp. road to the pile?? haha

[Fieldman12]

Dirt Digger 2, I perfectly agree with you. The 931C is a small track loader and yes is older. I know the new ones with the rear mounted motor are much improved. I would love to try out the new D series Cat. For most jobs a track loader in my opinion is better. Around here for a while track loaders where almost gone. Last few years they have popped up everywhere. As we both said before great for pushing power, digging, and working in mud. Not so great for long distance especially for the tracks. That is in my opinion where the wheel loader is best and on surfaces such as concrete and blacktop.

[BIGBEN2004]

I love when people say that they ran a track loader and it was an old worn out piece of junk. That would be like me saying I ran a wheel loader and it was junk and that all of them must be junk since the one I ran was junk and then I show a picture like this one.
http://www.impact-enterprises.com/photo/1218019a.jpg

[stuvecorp]

I love when people say that they ran a track loader and it was an old worn out piece of junk. That would be like me saying I ran a wheel loader and it was junk and that all of them must be junk since the one I ran was junk and then I show a picture like this one.
http://www.impact-enterprises.com/photo/1218019a.jpg

Old or junk has nothing to do with it, I think the ride and having more hours in a wheel loader are it for me. I know you guys love them but for the money, what does say a five year old 953 do for?

[Dirt Digger2]

hell...our old 955L could out perform a wheel loader...on a proper jobsite...anyday of the week, it doesn't go as fast as a wheel loader, but it will push as good as a D6 and i am not kidding about that...for those of you that have operated a 955L you know what i mean...then again she burns 50-60 gallons in an 8 hour day...if it and another machine are onsite we almost need 2 trucks just to refuel both of them

[ksss]

hell...our old 955L could out perform a wheel loader...on a proper jobsite...anyday of the week, it doesn't go as fast as a wheel loader, but it will push as good as a D6 and i am not kidding about that...for those of you that have operated a 955L you know what i mean...then again she burns 50-60 gallons in an 8 hour day...if it and another machine are onsite we almost need 2 trucks just to refuel both of them

Gives new meaning to the term "turn and burn". That is a lot of fuel.

[BIGBEN2004]

They do drink allot of fuel a day but since they are also doing the work of three machines in one they aren't so bad.

[cpaum]

How about really hard hard ground? So it nurns a ton of fuel but how much faster is it? Fuel vs. Time????

[BIGBEN2004]

How about really hard hard ground? So it nurns a ton of fuel but how much faster is it? Fuel vs. Time????

Hard ground is no problem for a Track loader. They chew it up nicely.

It is allot faster since it can do everything and you only have to move one machine into the job so it is also less fuel and time in transportation. Once you have a 953C on a job big or small they start and finish it.

Once I get my scanner up and running I will post pictures of jobs I have done with start pictures and finish pictures with a 953C. Man I miss that thing.

[Dirt Digger2]

juat snapped a pic of the old oil burner

[bobcat_ron]

She's a beauty!

[Stick Pro]

that is one of the reasons we have track loaders the can did swimming pools like nothing hard pan or sand it does not matter! It is a very versitle tractor we can be digging a swimming pool one day and the next day i will be demoing a house. Only way to go