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View Full Version : Contracts? NYS DEC Requirement


Whitey4
04-06-2008, 10:44 PM
Good freakin grief! I am shot. I have done some one-shot contracts for early apops this year, but in NYS to be legal, I need a signed contract for every app. That, and I need to supply all the CAUTION sections of the label for each control product... BUT... those cut and pasted labels also have to be in 12 point type. That means copying each label, blowing it up on my printer, cut and paste, recopy, and attach each control material label to be applied to every customer's contract.

Then it has to get signed by the customer, wait two days at least, notify adjoining property owners of a pesticide app, then finally, apply. I'm goin through black ink cartridges on my printer like there is no tommorrow.

Finally got them all done, and drove around dropping them off on a Sunday night, because with the recent warm weather, I have to get my Lebanon w/Barricade down this week. Then, I have to keep each signed contract on file for 3 years for DEC audits.

This is my first year as a legal certified app tech and registered pestricide business with the state (that only cost another $450) and the paperwork takes more time than doing the apps!

This is NYS nonsense.... how bad is the paperwork trail for the rest of you? It's already killin me....

turf hokie
04-07-2008, 06:14 AM
Whitey, No need to notify for a granular app of anything. There are also exempt liquid products, not many for turf but plenty for non-selective, and trees, ornamentals etc. Also, since your lawns seem to be small, look into a 32 oz sprayer and do spot treatments. This would exempt you from notifying no matter what you sprayed.

jrc lawncare
04-07-2008, 06:26 AM
At least the $450 is for three years. Glad I don't have neighbour notification in my area, that sucks. Yup, the paperwork blows, I think these dec azzholes justify there job by dreaming up half this sheot.:hammerhead: What a waste of good paper, I buy it by the case for my copier. Most of my contracts are already back, still waiting on a few stragglers.

Whitey4
04-07-2008, 08:25 AM
Whitey, No need to notify for a granular app of anything. There are also exempt liquid products, not many for turf but plenty for non-selective, and trees, ornamentals etc. Also, since your lawns seem to be small, look into a 32 oz sprayer and do spot treatments. This would exempt you from notifying no matter what you sprayed.

Yeah, I knew that about granular apps... another reason I use granular whenever I can, but for my broadleaf apps... it bites. I refuse to use a granular for that. I also know about the 32oz "spot spraying" not requiring notification. I have some large beds to cleanup, and I'll have to use my packpack sprayer pretty often... ivy eradication too. I do have 3 32oz sprayers.

jrc... That stupid notification law was sponsored by my idoit state assemblyman, Marcellino. Strictly a political thing to look like a hero and was doing something about the breast cancer rate in Long Island. Freakin moron. He excempted golf courses and cemetaries... so when Pat Voges asked him why, he said "Politicians play golf." Voges said "Yeah, ad they use cemataries too. I hope you use one soon."

RigglePLC
04-07-2008, 08:04 PM
ridiculous in NYS, Whitey. Like anybody is going to read all those precautions. We get by fine here without signed contracts--and no one asks or wants to read all the precautions for all the products. Stupid politicians, and DEQ. We have flags and Epa numbers (and rate and chemical name and percent concentration and target pest, and gallons used) on the invoice. We have a sensitive persons registry and a neighbor list. Not too many fortunately.

Whitey4
04-07-2008, 09:54 PM
ridiculous in NYS, Whitey. Like anybody is going to read all those precautions. We get by fine here without signed contracts--and no one asks or wants to read all the precautions for all the products. Stupid politicians, and DEQ. We have flags and Epa numbers (and rate and chemical name and percent concentration and target pest, and gallons used) on the invoice. We have a sensitive persons registry and a neighbor list. Not too many fortunately.

That is just the start of it in NY.... in Feb, we have to submit a report.... for EVERY app we do, saying "front lawn" isn't good enough... it has to say "east of driveway to eastern property line". West side of house, ten foot wide strip of turf, west of driveway to western property line. 100 long, 3 foot wide strip of turf between sidewalk and street. Rear section of turf in backyard from deck on the south, to western edge of garden bed, and south of garge to southern property line.

It is ridiculous. The bastards will fine you too, if your records aren't "right'.

vegomatic40
04-09-2008, 08:32 AM
Whitey, reading stuff like this gives me chills just thinking if Hillary is elected. Regulations run amok. I can't imagine Obama or McCain being much better. Suffering from "electile dysfunction" this year. No candidate excites me in the least.

lawnguyland
04-09-2008, 07:52 PM
That is just the start of it in NY.... in Feb, we have to submit a report.... for EVERY app we do, saying "front lawn" isn't good enough... it has to say "east of driveway to eastern property line". West side of house, ten foot wide strip of turf, west of driveway to western property line. 100 long, 3 foot wide strip of turf between sidewalk and street. Rear section of turf in backyard from deck on the south, to western edge of garden bed, and south of garge to southern property line.

It is ridiculous. The bastards will fine you too, if your records aren't "right'.

Oh crap- I just write 'entire turf area as needed' on mine. I'm tired of this. That's enough. When my certification runs out they can shove it.

lawnguyland
04-09-2008, 07:55 PM
They make us jump thru hoops and NEVER enforce the law anyway. Illegals running around sprayin and applying here constantly. Then they sell the same crap in Lowes to uneducated joe home owner or weekend warrior who apply whatever, wherever, whenever, with NO records. What a crock of ****. Fudge U Albany and Nassau

SMC
04-09-2008, 07:56 PM
I stopped doing applications in New York State. The neighbor notification laws are crazy. I don't know how anyone operates a business in New York.

AL Inc
04-09-2008, 08:16 PM
Yep, it was enough to make me stop doing applications, I sub everything out now. I'll make my money doing other things. I've been a certified applicator since 1996 and just couldn't stand it anymore, the regulations, the paperwork, everything. I agree with lawnguyland, screw Albany.
I do hope things work out for you, Whitey, that line from Pat Voges made me laugh, I can just see him saying that:laugh:

Whitey4
04-09-2008, 08:24 PM
It's pretty screwed up, that's for sure. For turf apps, I just save the property's turf description once, and save it. Then I can just cut and paste for any turf apps.

80% of my profits (excepting electives like plantings, mulching, etc) come from my apps. I don't have a business without them. There is no money to be made in maintenance. The going market rates for mow and blows are knee high to a toilet bowl here. I don't see that I have much of a choice.

barefeetny
04-09-2008, 09:50 PM
Whitey...

my brother how you been... i was in oceanside today.....I forgot how wacky the island is.longest traffic lights in the history of the world..... But i am jealous of the great sandy soil you guys have to dig in... Hope the season is going well

Nate

lawnguyland
04-10-2008, 06:14 AM
Apps are a big $ maker- that's why I still do it and deal with the BS.-for now

But really- half the apps are fertilizer and I don't need no stinkin badges for that! I hate you corrupt politicians, all of you.

jrc lawncare
04-10-2008, 06:19 AM
Apps are a big $ maker- that's why I still do it and deal with the BS.-for now

But really- half the apps are fertilizer and I don't need no stinkin badges for that! I hate you corrupt politicians, all of you. True there, ny politicians suck. $$$$ is why I do it as well.... $$$$$$.

Whitey4
04-10-2008, 07:49 AM
Whitey...

my brother how you been... i was in oceanside today.....I forgot how wacky the island is.longest traffic lights in the history of the world..... But i am jealous of the great sandy soil you guys have to dig in... Hope the season is going well

Nate

Doin' pretty good Nate. Business is going well, I'm getting extra turf renovations and garden bed installs too. Still picking up new customers from the 800 door hangers I put out well over a month ago. How are things upstate? BTW.... I don't hit ANY lights on my route. It's that tight, all within 3/4 mile of my house on side streets. Big help with gasoline and travel time.

lanwguyland... I hear ya... but no fert plan is complete without a pre-M as you know. We are at the mercy of the pols... in our businesses and every other thing in life it seems. At leastthe market rate for apps around here is higher than elsewhere...

barefeetny
04-10-2008, 09:35 AM
Yeah I'm busy..... but work has slowed a little... about the only big stuff I'm seeing is people who arn't going to be traveling....want a small oasis in the yard... maintenace is tight, but i'm still banging out clean-ups...

hopefully i can liberate a few people off their free income tax money

I'll be on when i can and keep plugging away

Nate