laser grading

[bobcatuser]

I was wondering if anyone dose laser grading with a skidsteer or tractor? I have been thinking about a laser box blade for some time but would like to find out more before buying. The two models I have looked at are the 7’ dual dozer and the PL84 by Level Best.

[stuvecorp]

Try searching, I think guys were talking about it in some threads awhile ago.

[ksss]

I have a library on the topic. I have spoken with Dual Dozer and Level Best, and Southern Laser now known as Southern Precision. The dual plane Level Best is MSRP at about 25k and Dual Dozer was about 21K. I have spent a lot of time on this topic an after years of procrastination I am finally about to buy in. I am getting the Southern Pecision grader. I am going to use the Dual DanFoss valve rather than SP's valve. I will have CAT come and install the system on the grader and my 440. They will warranty the components and provide training on the system. It is costing about 1500 more than had I bought everything from SP. However, I now have someone I can work with locally. I have no clue how this stuff works and I am willing to pay more to have the guts of the system installed here.

My personal thought is if your going to do it go with a dual plane system.

I have been getting everything in order year by year. The dual plane laser, Apache proportional receivers, new vibratory roller, VTS tracks. Now all I need is the attachment, oh and a water truck.

[wanabe]

Ksss, what kind of attachment are you getting? Must be some kind of grader for that much$. I know a box blade, reciever, and hydraulic kit is in the $8-9xxx.00 range.

[RockSet N' Grade]

Pull the trigger and write the check so I can come see how it works. I would love to have that set up, but I spent all my extra frog-skins on a new turbo and injectors - besides that, I am just chicken. :) I do believe there is a market for a fine grading unit like that and once you get established and known for that you will be the "go-to" guy. If you need to practice a bit, drive on down....I just had the "city's finest" try to install (operative word there is try) a new road base driveway with a crown in the middle ( what's that?) and graded from the street into the yard with some sembalance of grade/slope. Only took them 2 1/2 days to screw the pooch on that one.......help Mr Laser Grader Man!

[stuvecorp]

Ksss, when you getting the grader? Seems the prices for the graders really went up.

I find the grading attachment/market very interesting, may never get in to it but love to read about it.

[ksss]

Ksss, what kind of attachment are you getting? Must be some kind of grader for that much$. I know a box blade, reciever, and hydraulic kit is in the $8-9xxx.00 range.

Well I don't know about 9K. The dual plane laser transmitter is 3500 all on its own. The two proportional receivers are about 2K a piece for Apache. If your just looking at a single plane than yes, you can get by for less. However your capability is reduced to flat grade only.



http://www.sprecise.com/products/Skid-Steer.php

The unit I am working on is the Skid Master Pro. The picture shows a single plane unit.

[Construct'O]

Actually i think there is places you could still use the single grade box.By having a graded laser(not just a level laser),you you could set the grade in the direction you was running the pad.

You would set the laser at the slope degrees you need it to slope then run the machine in the direction you need the slope to be.

Like normal pad instead of going length wise you would be grading side to side of the pad.Now if you had a pad where you had to have slope in it length way and side ways then the dual grade box would be a must.

I did do a hog feeding sloped pad that had grade going length wish and side ways.Plus started out flat,then to dual slope to flat at the bottom with some grade to one end of the floor.

That was with a dozer,so it can be done.That is the only thing that i can think of that i ever used a combination of that many slope and grade changes at one time on a job.:usflag:

[ksss]

There are places to use a single slope. However I don't want to buy twice. My criteria was to be able to pull both the X and Y axis in one pull and not have to do checker boarding. What I like is the system is totally automated. You dial the slope in the laser and drive the skid steer. My hope is that I wont have to be on every technical concrete prep. I have the ability now to do single slope using the slope laser and my Apache plus 5. However it is not automated.

[Construct'O]

I understand your concern for not having to invest more then once.

Just wanted to point out that it can be done with a single slope, one reciever box scraper,and graded laser just would take longer.

How many jobs would you normally have to have a dual grade slope on a year and what would be an example,compared to the one i gave ?

I see a lot of side slope jobs,but not many with the dual grade as in length and side slope in the pads.I suppose since i thought more about it i would answer my own question.Parking lots would be an example.

Just one more thing,the SP Master Pro,won't probably work on a Case:confused: All they had them mounted on was a Bobcat and a Deere:rolleyes:.

Would like to see a picture of their dual grade set up.The Hitch Doc one i thought was one of the best of all them i looked at(my choice).I know lots of money.It looked to be very good engineering,heavy duty, and thought out.

Plus they had a lot of close up pictures to see it and how it would work.Looked fool proof pretty much.Probably no chance of demo being that far away.Good luck and send me some closeups when you get it sometimes.:usflag:

[ksss]

The Hitch Doc is nice but somethings I did not like was the homemade control box in the skid steer. It is all in house fabricated, meaning that any issues or replacement has to come from Hitch Doc. I was not as impressed with the older technology Trimble components. The other thing was the wheels behind the blade. I am not so sure about that. The unit is more compact but I think have the wheels out in front would make it more smooth in grading, kinda like road grader. I am spending about the same money as I would on the Hitch Doc. I am just buy the best system with at least some support.


I am waiting on the pictures and some verbage in the purchase order needs to be corrected.

[bobcatuser]

Having your local CAT dealer set it up is great idea, I haven’t been able to get any info locally. Dual plane is what I need for doing slab prep in underground parking garages.

I have been getting everything in order year by year. The dual plane laser, Apache proportional receivers, new vibratory roller, VTS tracks. Now all I need is the attachment, oh and a water truck.

You’re closer than me, I need everything Including a new CTL. The way I look at it is. The work is there because I’m already doing it, now it’s time to work smarter not harder.

[ksss]

[QUOTE The work is there because I’m already doing it, now it’s time to work smarter not harder.[/QUOTE]


This also my thinking. I make good money on concrete prep. Our grade is dare I say perfect. The problem is it takes time to make it so. I am hoping to maintain the high level of quality and do it a lot faster with less work.

I sent an email to Bob at Hitch Doc. I had been talking with him about their product. I told them I was not interested in paying full MSRP on their attachment if my dealer was in Salt Lake City. He was going to check and see what he could do. Have not heard from him for a month. Guess thats a clue. You pay full price with or without any support on the attachment.

[Construct'O]

My idea of the wheels in the back compared to the ones in the front is the opposite of your thoughts.The wheels in the front if there is clads,rocks:cry:,or mounds of dirt in front of you the front wheels will be running on uneven ground.

Where with the wheels at the back of the box the box is leveling anything in front of the rear wheels,so the wheels should be running on level ground most of the time compared to the wheels in the front.If you was grading when backing up you might have the same as the other system.

Nothing work perfect in the real world 100% of the time!!!!!!!!!!!

You could also use the example of starting out on uneven ground the machine may be setting on a bump or hump so will have to get moving before the grading gets leveled.

Anyway that was my thought,altho i'm building mine with the wheels out front and welded plate on the box scraper and plan on running the skid on float with the laser set for my grade,and hydraulics running the grade cylinder on the front wheels.

I understand the thoughts of no support also.For me it will have to be the low budget system and now a summer project:usflag:

[bobcatuser]

The Hitch Doc is nice but somethings I did not like was the homemade control box in the skid steer. It is all in house fabricated, meaning that any issues or replacement has to come from Hitch Doc. I was not as impressed with the older technology Trimble components. The other thing was the wheels behind the blade. I am not so sure about that. The unit is more compact but I think have the wheels out in front would make it more smooth in grading, kinda like road grader. I am spending about the same money as I would on the Hitch Doc. I am just buy the best system with at least some support.


I am waiting on the pictures and some verbage in the purchase order needs to be corrected.

You have a good point about the old school electronics.

http://www.laser-grade.com/bullseye_dual.htm
Is this what you’re looking at for the control box?.

[bobcatuser]

Anyway that was my thought,altho i'm building mine with the wheels out front and welded plate on the box scraper and plan on running the skid on float with the laser set for my grade,and hydraulics running the grade cylinder on the front wheels.


I don't think there would be enough down pressure if you were running with the loader in float.

[ARP]

Interesting discussion going on here. I've been looking at entering the concrete prep market in my area but something I'm still trying to understand is the proper pricing for such a service. I understand the benefits to a contractor in terms of the savings in concrete and rework for an exact pad but how do you quantify the benefit to the contractor and charge accordingly?

What kind of premiums does the concrete prep market charge over say just using a bulldozer and a laborer with a hand held receiver eye?

Thanks for the help!

Andrew

[Construct'O]

If you didn't like there in house control box just buy the attachment add your own laser system .You have eveything you need all but the control box the way i see it.You would have to use the valve and hydraulics that he has on the attachment.

Make sure you get porptionial???? valve.I think you already mentioned that before.

I have the automactic control box and everything for my dozer and trencher.Apache has a good looking control box go with theirs.Will match with what you have.

Other then some extra electric cables(battery) to box for your system you have most of what you need.The rest of the support for the box scraper will be the same as for the SP unless your saying Cat is the dealer for the SP system is that it????? Again just my thought.

Here is a link to the last time we discussed this project for others......
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=206137 :usflag:

[ianh]

Sounds like we're all takin' the plunge at the same time :)

My new SR80 c/w Topcon laser and Level-Best PL84'' box grader should be delivered late next week... fingers crossed... $AU155k :dizzy:

[ARP]

Thanks for the link Construct'o.

[bobcatuser]

Sounds like we're all takin' the plunge at the same time :)

My new SR80 c/w Topcon laser and Level-Best PL84'' box grader should be delivered late next week... fingers crossed... $AU155k :dizzy:

Is that your first laser grader,how much tax/import duty is in that price tag? :dizzy:

[ksss]

You have a good point about the old school electronics.

http://www.laser-grade.com/bullseye_dual.htm
Is this what you’re looking at for the control box?.

Yep thats the one. I got the run down on it at Conexpo. Very easy to use. Compare that to the Hitch Doc and you can see the difference. The Hitch Doc may work fine, but I guess I just feel better about Apache components.

[stuvecorp]

Construct'O, how is your build going?

Ianh, I would hope there is some kind of conversion rate going on, thats not right.

[ksss]

If you didn't like there in house control box just buy the attachment add your own laser system .You have eveything you need all but the control box the way i see it.You would have to use the valve and hydraulics that he has on the attachment.

Make sure you get porptionial???? valve.I think you already mentioned that before.

I have the automactic control box and everything for my dozer and trencher.Apache has a good looking control box go with theirs.Will match with what you have.

Other then some extra electric cables(battery) to box for your system you have most of what you need.The rest of the support for the box scraper will be the same as for the SP unless your saying Cat is the dealer for the SP system is that it????? Again just my thought.

Here is a link to the last time we discussed this project for others......
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=206137 :usflag:


I would be inclined to do that. Actually I think that would be a great system. I wish that Hitch Doc would lose their current technology and got with the more current offerings. Given what is available they could do better. I am not sure that Hitch Doc is so willing to sell that attachment separate. I will find out if the salesman gets my email and calls as requested. If they would that be something to consider. One area that the Hitch Doc machine have over the others is the amount of available articulation left and right. Hitch Doc has 8" and the SP has 3". Don't know that you would ever need that much but it is there.

[stuvecorp]

Yep thats the one. I got the run down on it at Conexpo. Very easy to use. Compare that to the Hitch Doc and you can see the difference. The Hitch Doc may work fine, but I guess I just feel better about Apache components.

So you have your main or regular laser set up then that dual prop. thing is set up right to the blade? I am starting to see where all the money is going.

[bobcatuser]

Yep thats the one. I got the run down on it at Conexpo. Very easy to use. Compare that to the Hitch Doc and you can see the difference. The Hitch Doc may work fine, but I guess I just feel better about Apache components.

Two days Conexpo wasn’t enough for me. I didn’t get a chance to see half the exhibitors.:drinkup: I wonder how long before this technology becomes price competitive like home electronics.

[Construct'O]

Stuvecorp my project is on hold until summer gets here,time main thing now since getting busy with work.

KSSS i think the Apache Laser system is the best for now for the automactic system.When i talked to them they was going to stay mainly with the laser system setup and not so much GPS if any,which for most of us GPS is out because of size of bus and cost.If i was going to a new system it would be Apache.Brand of laser would be who knows.Probably Topcon and Trimble.I also like that new control box.

A couple more things i liked about the Hitch Doc was the distance behind the box scraper for moving material backwards as will as forward.I know forward is the main direction ,but at time moving material backwards would be a time saver.

After reading your last post the amount of travel i would think might be another advanage,their could be place that you might need i would think more then three inches travel as with the SP system.Also if you wanted to go with the HD you could get the adaptor to also change it back and fore from skid to tractor use.

I'm sure not that important to you but might be for others.Might be something i will consider in my project.

You would think that Hitch Doc would be willing to sell just the attachment.I figure that is what makes them the most money,since the attachment is made in house and the laser system is someone elses.

With out better picture of the SP system i'm still for HD.The thing i liked about HD was that he had a bunch of picture and close up so not hard to see hows thing was going to work.Where the other sites picture are far off and not many to really get down to the barebone of the attachment.

Of course for me i'm wanting more idea for my project.:rolleyes::usflag:

[ksss]

The SP can push and pull material I also agree that is a time saver. The SP can also be used on a tractor or skid steer. As far as the travel, I agree I would rather have more than less, even if I never needed it. HD has not been that easy to work with. Good at answering questions, but as soon as I told them that I didn't really think that paying full MSRP was a great deal for me when everyone that buys one in SLC has support for it. I buy one take it to Idaho, I have no support (Wheeler CAT is Utah, Western States is Idaho) as the local CAT dealer has nothing to do with them. After that conversation, nothing. I actually looked at the HD in SLC. It was still on the pallet so it was hard to see everything, but I will say that it was well built.

As far as ConExpo, I flew in on Tuesday and stayed until 2 hours before it closed on Saturday, and I still was finding buildings that missed on the last day. There were no laser grader guys down there. There was the side walk grader attachment guy but that was all I had seen.

[ianh]

Is that your first laser grader,how much tax/import duty is in that price tag? :dizzy:

Yep, first venture into this type of laser control, but we've been in the contracting business since '81 doing subdivisions, pipelines, houses etc. I'm an engineering surveyor by profession (no longer practicing) and thus very familiar with the use of lasers in that field so don't anticipate any probs in that area. Whilst fairly adept with most machine types after all these years, I'm expecting a steep learning curve to start with in the SR80.

There's not all that much in the exchange rates $AU155 = $US144k atm. I don't know how much import duty is involved... the direct cost ex tax for the SR80 is $AU90k (incl cab u/graded a/c, window tinting. ext warranty, 4 in 1 bucket) the rest is attachments ( the Level Best and assoc laser gear incl single grade laser and two receivers, flail mower, forks, tilting hitch, and bolt-on Rezloh edge plus loading ramps, reverse camera, beacon and other such odds and ends). For the cost involved, i figured I'd hire a dual grade laser as and when required... there's a local agent so that's not a problem. I don't want one sitting as we are required to have documentary evidence of laser testing every six months as part of QA so it will soon add up.

[ksss]

I spoke with HD today.......(thats me sighing).

What I learned was they have never sold just the attachment. Salesman said he would asked but doubts it would happen. OK then what about putting the components that I want such as a Dual DanFoss valve and everything else Apache on the machine (not exactly what I want but...)? I told him that I was not a fan of his control box, and that I would like components that were more advanced than the Trimble components they were using (nothing against Trimble, just that technology has advanced and they are still using the older stuff not the more current). I thought what I heard was very telling. Nothing, no dissenting view, no our stuff is cutting edge. I of course know that it is not. I spoke with both Trimble and Apache people (same company now but they are still different people).

I told them that I wanted to use the Apache Dual Plane controller. He had never heard of it (I call BS on that, its your business to know whats out there). The Apache control box can be used on dozers and graders as well as this application. You could pull the Apache out of the skid steer and throw it in your blade if you wanted to. That is adaptability. That is not possible with HD controller.

He said that he would get back to me. I doubt that will happen. This guy wants to sell the machine as it sits, don't bother me with questions, don't make me seek permission to vary from the norm.

Construct'O you may be right. This maybe the best box blade on the market for this application. I maybe wrong on the wheels in the back verse the back. I would seriously consider buying the box without their components if they would offer me that (at a reasonable price) but that isn't going to happen I don't think.

[Construct'O]

My thoughts are that they are marking up(prices) on there laser setup and by selling the attachment without there system they have to come up with a new price number and they don't know where to start:rolleyes:.

To bad,i do like their attachment ,but i also like the Apache auto laser system,and again if i was going new that would be the one i would go with.

They was real friendly and informative on there products and where they was going in the furture.Support their products(laser systems),that are still going and furnish upgrades to the system as they update their system.Not make them obsolete like some other companys.

Your call,but my feeling is like yours they aren't wanting to budge.Good luck:usflag:

[ksss]

My thoughts are that they are marking up(prices) on there laser setup and by selling the attachment without there system they have to come up with a new price number and they don't know where to start:rolleyes:.

Your call,but my feeling is like yours they aren't wanting to budge.Good luck:usflag:


Actually that is just what I told them. I said that I am sure your profit is selling the machine as is, not in piecing it out or making changes. He said he has been asked this before. They want to be able to charge 20K plus for this thing and thats it. I guess I cant blame them if they can get it.

[ksss]

Well the Laser Leveling attachment is on a truck and headed to Idaho. CAT will be here the last week in May to install the control system.

BULLET BIT

[Construct'O]

Hopefully it will meet,or do what you want to do. where is it getting shipped from?

Good luck with your new equipment(attachment)!!!!!!!

By the way was that a "Silver Bullet":confused::usflag:

[ksss]

Hopefully it will meet,or do what you want to do. where is it getting shipped from?

Good luck with your new equipment(attachment)!!!!!!!

By the way was that a "Silver Bullet":confused::usflag:


Florida is the start location. Couldn't get much further away.

It will feel like a Golden Bullet by the time it is done.

[ASCHAL45]

Hey KSSS has the laser setup arrived yet

[SuperDuty335]

I'm not familiar with the laser equipment you're talking about but one of our biggest grading customers bought a GPS system for a couple of their D4's and motor graders and a hand-held rover. The display screens on the equipment look like an Atari game screen with just a dozer symbol and a grade at the bottom of the screen. The signal fluctuates constantly to the equipment causing the blades to move up to 0.2' when the equipment is stationary. The other day I staked out a small parking lot island with a light pole in the middle of it. When the grading foreman came over with the rover it showed the light pole being 10' outside the island. I checked back in with him an hour later and the rover showed the pole was 6' out of the island on the opposite side. With that said I think the GPS system is pretty good for rough grading but I'm not so sure about fine grading.:nono:

[jmf]

Did you happen to notice who the gps manufacturer was?

jmf

[ksss]

CAT spent two days installing the system. The guy was going to come out on Sat. and show us how it works and to finish setting it up, but he had a family emergency and had to go back to Boise. He said he will out on Monday. The Dual Plane Apache control box is kinda big and finding a place for it in a skid steer cab was a challenge. However we were able to make it work. There is a lot of cabling, but they did a good job managing it.

I will say this at least so far. I glad I went this route. Had this been shipped to me with the attachment ready to go, the skid steer would still have to have been wired for the system and I would have no one to help me with the set up. This is definetly the way to go. At least now I have CAT who can warranty the components and more importantly, show me how to properly set up and run the system. The techs were impressed with the build quality of the attachment itself. I hope it acutally works as promised.

I have been talking to people and trying to create some buzz. It is working. I want to see how the attachment actually performs before lauching a full court press. The other issue is that I have a huge backlog of work right now so spending time with it is going to be difficult in the near future.

I will say this if this takes off I will likely keep the VTS and all the laser stuff on this 440 and buy another wheeled machine (440-3). I will know by Fall whether that is practical. It would give me a dedicated tracked machine, and I would leave the laser stuff hooked up to the machine (removing it is not a big deal, but it the less monkeying that is done with it can only be a good thing).

[RockSet N' Grade]

Ksss.....since you have such a huge backlog, I can come up.......take it off your hands for awhile and let you know how it works come fall.......give a holler when you get some gravel delievered to your yard and I will peddle my bicycle up your way to watch and learn. Make sure to give me some time, cause I will be driving my riding lawn mower (fuel prices you know - get good mpg out of my toro riding mower) or the above mentioned peddle power.......its down hill on the way home, so I can coast most of the way....

[bobcatuser]

Well I finally took delivery of a level best 7' box with Apache controls. We spent the day calibrating everything now I should be ready to try it on a job next week, after I get some practice.

[ARP]

Nice setup- I was talking to my dealer about the same setup earlier this summer as well. I will be interested to hear your feedback on the unit.

[ksss]

CAT comes out tommorrow and finally finish mine. The Dual Plane Apache controller was defective as it turned out. We install the new one, CAT proves to me that it works as it should and I also can start practicing. I have learned already that there is a learning curve to this.

[bobcatuser]

The build quality of the box blade is excellent. Doing the installation of the wire harness is quite simple, I need to add some wire loom and shorten some of the wires but nothing major. Calibrating the control box took some time but now I know how most of input settings work.

The learning curve is there for this attachment. I have heard stories of guys buying these type of attachments, only to return it when they can't operate it properly.

[Scag48]

Looks good! I'm curious to know how it works out for you. There is definately a market for this type of work and I believe it's growing. Lower overhead when compared to a dozer and more versatile when the carrier unit is not finish grading. Can handle much smaller jobs more cost effectively, allowing the machine to stay busy regardless of customer needs. Definately a growing niche, that's for sure.

[stuvecorp]

Looks good! I'm curious to know how it works out for you. There is definately a market for this type of work and I believe it's growing. Lower overhead when compared to a dozer and more versatile when the carrier unit is not finish grading. Can handle much smaller jobs more cost effectively, allowing the machine to stay busy regardless of customer needs. Definately a growing niche, that's for sure.

Yet it is kinda expensive to buy so that limits who would buy it and how many skidjockeys have the patience to run it?

Bobcatuser, keep us posted on how it goes.

[ccstrebe]

Well I finally took delivery of a level best 7' box with Apache controls. We spent the day calibrating everything now I should be ready to try it on a job next week, after I get some practice.

Excellent choice.

[bobcat_ron]

I like the mirror on the front. Neat idea.

[ccstrebe]

I like the mirror on the front. Neat idea.

I count on that mirror a lot. Sometimes it is the only way to know if you got dirt in the box.

[wanabe]

Ya that mirror is a good idea. I am ready for the job site pics!

[dozerman21]

The build quality of the box blade is excellent. Doing the installation of the wire harness is quite simple, I need to add some wire loom and shorten some of the wires but nothing major. Calibrating the control box took some time but now I know how most of input settings work.

The learning curve is there for this attachment. I have heard stories of guys buying these type of attachments, only to return it when they can't operate it properly.

Nice looking setup

For a 7 foot Level Best, are those around $20K installed, not including the laser?

How are they in hard ground, or does the dirt need to be soft or scarified?

Also, how close to grade do you need to be before you use the automated box?

[RockSet N' Grade]

I went to CAT "laser days" the other day and learned some stuff. I also demo'd a dual-dozer for a couple days to laser grade this guys back yard ( 51,000 sq. ft.). Nice units. I have learned an incredible amount about these systems and am most impressed. One little thing they don't tell you in set-up is to level the front blade to the back blade and make sure they are the same height.......most important. In a nutshell, I rototilled the 51k yard to loosen the material and then blazed through the grading part in about 4 hours and it was SWEET!!! I mean the cats meow!.......There is a niche for these machines, and I am in love with the dual slope. If you have the cabbage, buy the dual slope laser with "grade match" and a remote so you can adjust your grades without going to the laser. Little spendy ($7,500) but I believe well worth the money long term. If winter was not knocking on the door, I would pull the trigger on either the dual dozer or laser level....I believe they are both high quality.

[bobcatuser]

After working with different materials I will get a feel for the accuracy.

A short video of me grading road milling's. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmcxjevassA

Now who wants to hire me, I have a good $$$ referral system.:laugh:

[bobcat_ron]

What's your rate and do you work for doughnuts?

[bobcatexc]

KSSS, in the last discussion you commented that grading for large buildings such as walmart's are going for 25 to 75 cents a square foot. Does that include you having to purchase, place and grade the rock or just laser grade the rock. Most larger projects like this that I've been on the excavating contractor places the rock on the pad so everybody has rock to work off of. But then the concrete contractor would regrade after the plumber and electrician screw it all up.

[RockSet N' Grade]

Bobcatexc.......I am curious about price also, although right now they are all over the map. One pipe job was sent out to bid by a contractor and he got over 100 bids from excavators around the area.........must be a little hunger in the air? I would like to know what "normal times" sq. ft price is vs. bottom feeder prices are.

[Gravel Rat]

I can see that being good for doing slab on grade preparation or basement floors. So how does the blade adjust are you constantly feathering the control up and down to keep a steady beep or light ?

[ksss]

I can see that being good for doing slab on grade preparation or basement floors. So how does the blade adjust are you constantly feathering the control up and down to keep a steady beep or light ?


No its automated.

[bobcat_ron]

The skid steer is just providing the hydraulic and travel power, the rest is the laser's work.

[Gravel Rat]

I never seen one before so I didn't know if it was automated or not. I used laser level/transits quite abit but never had any dealings with laser grading.

[bobcat_ron]

I never seen one before so I didn't know if it was automated or not. I used laser level/transits quite abit but never had any dealings with laser grading.

The system that bobcatuser has is the one my brother wants real bad, the set up we have on the D4 is a manual one, keep it in the green, but it doesn't teel you if the blade is level, only if you are on the right elevation level.

[RockSet N' Grade]

One of the things I learned from " Laser Day's " at CAT from one of the topcon tech's (who is an older fart than me and was actually in the dirt business) is that a tractor equipped with a grading box will do 2 times more fine grading work vs. a skid equipped with the same grade box. I don't know from actual experience if that is true or not, but that is what I was told. Another tip the topcon chap made to me was, that the more you can keep the machine running forward vs. backwards, your production increases expodentially. I believe any way to automate a machine will give you an edge and that the price tag is just a way to separate the competition out......

[Gravel Rat]

The contractor I worked for had laser level attachement to the excavators for digging basements etc but it was easier to have the grade stick and keep checking grade.

Laser levels have revolutionized grade checking no more scope and rotten graduated stick. I was never good at math so trying to keep track of numbers is tough :laugh:

[ccstrebe]

One of the things I learned from " Laser Day's " at CAT from one of the topcon tech's (who is an older fart than me and was actually in the dirt business) is that a tractor equipped with a grading box will do 2 times more fine grading work vs. a skid equipped with the same grade box. I don't know from actual experience if that is true or not, but that is what I was told. Another tip the topcon chap made to me was, that the more you can keep the machine running forward vs. backwards, your production increases expodentially. I believe any way to automate a machine will give you an edge and that the price tag is just a way to separate the competition out......

I can tell you this much, if you have looked at the pictures of my track you can see the results of laser grading the day before I took the pictures. With my track layout there is no way I would be able to laser that track with a tractor, you would need way too much of a buffer zone to turn around that wouldn't get graded.

As far as speed goes, one of the reasons for having such a big machine and a tracked machine is so that I can go full speed. I learned the hard way that a smaller machine with wheels (440 Case and 6ft box) would do the job but it was slow going.

As far as running backwards. I never go backwards, for me it is counter productive. In fact, I'm thinking of taking off the back blade because the front blade wears and the back one doesn't, so if I accidently go backward, I'm taking off more dirt than what the front just took off and I don't need to be messing with keeping both blades adjusted, which is what you have to do if you use it in both directions..

[stuvecorp]

One of the things I learned from " Laser Day's " at CAT from one of the topcon tech's (who is an older fart than me and was actually in the dirt business) is that a tractor equipped with a grading box will do 2 times more fine grading work vs. a skid equipped with the same grade box. I don't know from actual experience if that is true or not, but that is what I was told. Another tip the topcon chap made to me was, that the more you can keep the machine running forward vs. backwards, your production increases expodentially. I believe any way to automate a machine will give you an edge and that the price tag is just a way to separate the competition out......

I would love to go to something like 'Laser Day'. I have many questions when it comes to lasers and the grade control stuff.

[RockSet N' Grade]

CCs.......I have perused your website and track extensively. I agree you are optimally set up for a skid. What I was more referring to was open slab areas, yards like I did, etc. . Laser Days had free food, way way too many salesmen who knew less than I did, GPS set up on dozers and blades, lasers set up on blades and several skids. Cat also had some of their new mini-ex machines there with "ya-hoo's" trying to dig little trenches and a full scoop out of a pile.........if I had been on my game, I would have done the "cup trick" and stacked some cups and made some bucks. I did, however, meet two or three guys worth their salt who would give you the straight scoop regardless of machine color/instrument color and that was worth the adventure. We pulled into "Laser Days" on the way home from a job with the dump truck and ho loaded on the trailer.......some dummy salesman asked me what kind of ho that was (since I took off all the stickers and repainted it) and I told him it was an older customized CAT......after a puzzled look on his face he walked away with not much to say.........kinda fun....

[ccstrebe]

CCs.......I have perused your website and track extensively. I agree you are optimally set up for a skid. What I was more referring to was open slab areas, yards like I did, etc. . Laser Days had free food, way way too many salesmen who knew less than I did, GPS set up on dozers and blades, lasers set up on blades and several skids. Cat also had some of their new mini-ex machines there with "ya-hoo's" trying to dig little trenches and a full scoop out of a pile.........if I had been on my game, I would have done the "cup trick" and stacked some cups and made some bucks. I did, however, meet two or three guys worth their salt who would give you the straight scoop regardless of machine color/instrument color and that was worth the adventure. We pulled into "Laser Days" on the way home from a job with the dump truck and ho loaded on the trailer.......some dummy salesman asked me what kind of ho that was (since I took off all the stickers and repainted it) and I told him it was an older customized CAT......after a puzzled look on his face he walked away with not much to say.........kinda fun....

How are you liking that hitch doc? Where do they have the laser days at?

[Construct'O]

Hy ! Rock was that Laser Days or Lazy Days:laugh:Sounds like you had fun.Guess it pays to be at the right place at the right time !!!!

All my training which isn't much came with trial and error:rolleyes:

So what's the hold up on your system.Is this another pounder before we leap thing.Looks to be the way to go,don't get caught or left behind in the past,need to move up to the new millieum:laugh:

Should have told him it was a Cat in disguise:cool2::usflag:

[RockSet N' Grade]

I did not buy the hitch-doc. Instead, I bought a breaker that fits the skid and got an adapter for the hoe so I can use the breaker on both. Had a pool demo and figured I would buy instead of continue to rent worn out rental breakers. Too close to winter and the calls for precision grading just aren't there........Rather wait and see if it appears in my Christmas stocking. Kinda shy on cash flow right now after remodeling my house and don't want to add any more debt without more cash flow........just put in all new windows, took out old fireplace and rebuilt with high efficiency wood burning heater firebox as a back up source of heat, repaint the interior and various other interior nightmares plus sanding and painting outside.....

[ccstrebe]

I did not buy the hitch-doc. Instead, I bought a breaker that fits the skid and got an adapter for the hoe so I can use the breaker on both. Had a pool demo and figured I would buy instead of continue to rent worn out rental breakers. Too close to winter and the calls for precision grading just aren't there........Rather wait and see if it appears in my Christmas stocking. Kinda shy on cash flow right now after remodeling my house and don't want to add any more debt without more cash flow........just put in all new windows, took out old fireplace and rebuilt with high efficiency wood burning heater firebox as a back up source of heat, repaint the interior and various other interior nightmares plus sanding and painting outside.....

Sounds like a good move all around with the slow down and all, plus I'm sure the wife appreciates all that you did for the remodel. The more I read about the Hitch Doc the less I like about it, specifically their proprietary set-up and all the problems you and others had getting their demo's going. Iv'e owned two Level Best graders and both times they were plug-and-play, now to be fair they were single plane not dual but the only difference between the two should be making sure that the two recievers are in sync on their masts.

When you do get around to getting one I got a number for you of the people I deal with on the laser end of things, they are in northern California, good people.

This week I'll be getting my Level Best wired up to the new Cat, I'll post some pics.

[RockSet N' Grade]

My problem was not really with the Hitch-Doc itself. My problem (twice) was with the carrier unit......i.e. the CAT skids they brought me were broke and would not hook up to any implement on the first skid and the second skid you had to kick the door to open it/close it and the pilot controls had a mind of their own or "issues". Must have been an omen.
CCS - pm me the no. calif. laser people. I may go ahead and start looking or purchase another receiver and upgrade my laser if the price is right.

[Construct'O]

I did not buy the hitch-doc. Instead, I bought a breaker that fits the skid and got an adapter for the hoe so I can use the breaker on both. Had a pool demo and figured I would buy instead of continue to rent worn out rental breakers. Too close to winter and the calls for precision grading just aren't there........Rather wait and see if it appears in my Christmas stocking. Kinda shy on cash flow right now after remodeling my house and don't want to add any more debt without more cash flow........just put in all new windows, took out old fireplace and rebuilt with high efficiency wood burning heater firebox as a back up source of heat, repaint the interior and various other interior nightmares plus sanding and painting outside.....

Let's get through Oct>Halloween first before we move on!!!!

I still have a sh$$ pot load of work to get done before winter hits.

All my cash flow went to remodeling and repair the dozer and trenchers.But they love me:laugh::usflag:

[ccstrebe]

What a job. It was a lot of work but I got it done.

The first pic shows the cables that I recieved when I first bought the Level Best. The Yellow one was for power and the grey one was to control the control box and the power mast from the cab. The problem with this set-up was that I had to hook up 2 cables every time I had to use it. Also the grey cable switches were permanently fixed in the cab so I had to store the grey cable on the floor when I wasn't using the laser, plus both cables were too short, so if I lifted the boom and tilted the box down 90 degrees it would rip the cables and the hydro hoses out, that happened to me twice.

The second picture shows the new cable set-up. I had to buy 3 cat wiring harnesses (to get the right length from the control box to the cab) and ran it into the cab headliner. Very expensive proposition ($500.00 each) but it looks like it came from the factory that way. I followed the same path as the existing harnesses. I also had to get longer hoses made.

The third picture shows the switches in the cab. There were three blank locations that worked perfect. I found some rocker switches that have removable covers. I have ordered yellow covers for them that have black engravings that show up and down arrows for the blade and mast and manual/auto for the hydraulics.

The other pictures just show different angles of the laser grader.

[bobcat_ron]

Geez man, when you gonna get that 297C plastered in mud and dirt?!?!

[bobcatuser]

That's a clean instillation job.

What did you do for the auto/manual switch and why did you buy 3 harnesses?

[Construct'O]

What function do the three switches in the cab control or do?

Do you remove the control box off the Levelbest when not in use?I wouldn't want to leave it on the machine because of weather and other things like theft!

The reason for the powermast is because of the grade changes on your race track,so that the receiver can find the laser with the powermast moving up and down.Right?

What is the laser your using .Is it Laser Alignment?Dual or single grade,since the Levelbest is just set up for single.

I mounted my control box inside on my dozer,which i like.Why don't you have yours mounted inside your cab?

Get a few with it in action sometime,if you get a chance.Thanks for the pictures,nice setup:usflag:

[ksss]

What function do the three switches in the cab control or do?

Do you remove the control box off the Levelbest when not in use?I wouldn't want to leave it on the machine because of weather and other things like theft!

The reason for the powermast is because of the grade changes on your race track,so that the receiver can find the laser with the powermast moving up and down.Right?

What is the laser your using .Is it Laser Alignment?Dual or single grade,since the Levelbest is just set up for single.

I mounted my control box inside on my dozer,which i like.Why don't you have yours mounted inside your cab?

Get a few with it in action sometime,if you get a chance.Thanks for the pictures,nice setup:usflag:


Mine mounts in the cab. Not easy finding a home for it. I had to take the door and some of the flashing off to make it fit. The nice thing is it unbolts and I can take it with me at night. I had the auto/manual switch wired to the control handle on the 440 into a switch I wasn't using. Having that switch mounted on the control handle is a huge benefit.

[ccstrebe]

Geez man, when you gonna get that 297C plastered in mud and dirt?!?!

It had a good coat of dust on it. I washed it before taking the pictures.

[RockSet N' Grade]

From my use of the system and looking at yours (inside cab pictures I didn't understand): your control box is mounted outside and you will find when you "bump" out of grade, you will need to reset your receivers with the manual control switch on the control box which is mounted outside the cab.

[ccstrebe]

That's a clean instillation job.

What did you do for the auto/manual switch and why did you buy 3 harnesses?

Thanks

It took one to go from the boom to inside the engine compartment and one to go from the engine compartment to the cab and one to go from the boom to the control box. It was the factory eight wire harness and I needed exactly eight wires to do it. The harness I used to go from the boom to the control box was the harness that they used for the Cat cold plane.

The three switch functions from left to right are as follows.

#1 toggle - mast up/mast down
#2 on/off - auto/manual
#3 toggle - blade up/blade down

[RockSet N' Grade]

Nice.....super clean install. I get it now with the explanation of the switches.

[RockSet N' Grade]

CCS......would you share some closer pics of the mast and receiver and how it adjusts and is mounted? May I ask your bottom line on the entire unit? You said earlier you had a hook-up for laser/receivers in No. Cal. ........would you pm me with their info?

[ccstrebe]

What function do the three switches in the cab control or do?

#1 toggle - mast up/mast down
#2 on/off - auto/manual
#3 toggle - blade up/blade down

Do you remove the control box off the Levelbest when not in use?I wouldn't want to leave it on the machine because of weather and other things like theft!

I leave it on the machine because it is always stored inside.

The reason for the powermast is because of the grade changes on your race track,so that the receiver can find the laser with the powermast moving up and down.Right?

That is correct. Also, with the power mast, I do not have to remove the pole and receiver in order to store it inside the cargo container that I keep it in. You can see the cargo container that I keep the Level Best and the Cat in, in the track photos. With my first Level Best I didn't have the power mast and had to dismantle the pole and receiver everytime I stored it in the container, it was a pain in the you know what.

What is the laser your using? Is it Laser Alignment? Dual or single grade, since the Levelbest is just set up for single.

It is a self leveling, single grade Topcon.

When I bought my current Level Best two years ago they didn't make their dual grade machine or I would have gotten it. I don't need it out at the track but I've always been the one to buy for the future.

I mounted my control box inside on my dozer, which i like. Why don't you have yours mounted inside your cab?

Like any skid steer attachment, when ever you disconnect the attachment you also have to disconnect the cabling and the hydraulics. I wanted the simplest way to connect and disconnect (plug and play) it was alot of work, but this was it. Keep in mind, with a loader like mine we have the ability to lift the whole attachment above the cab so the cabling needs to be able to accomodate those kinds of motions.

The cable that goes from the control box to the power mast is a 16 wire cable. The reason it has so many wires is because in addition to controlling the mast up and down it feeds information back and forth to the control box to a digital display giving me information like limit stops and mast elevation. Besides not wanting to take up the space in the cab, there was no way I wanted to run that 16 wire cable and the additional cable from the control box to the hydro valve through the cab and engine compartment and down the boom.

Not to mention the fact that when adjusting the cutting edge or doing any other work outside of the cab that requires moving the blade or the mast up and down, I have the control box right there at my finger tips. It's the best of both worlds.

Get a few with it in action sometime, if you get a chance. Thanks for the pictures, nice setup:usflag:

I want to and I will. I need to take some video courses from BC Ron.

[ccstrebe]

CCS......would you share some closer pics of the mast and receiver and how it adjusts and is mounted? May I ask your bottom line on the entire unit? You said earlier you had a hook-up for laser/receivers in No. Cal. ........would you pm me with their info?

I am out of town this whole week. I can get some closer pictures for you next week.

I bought the Level Best from Gearmore through our local Bobcat/Case dealer (Gearmore will not sell direct) and I bought all the laser stuff through Pacific Laser http://www.pacificlaser.com/ and mounted it myself because Level Best quit using the Laser Alignment (now Leica) stuff and went to Apache, but Apache doesnt' have a powered mast and the powered mast was a necessity for me, especially in and enclosed cab. I have used a laser with and without a powered mast/controls in the cab. I would never consider a unit without this setup, at least for single grade. Dual grade might be a whole different story, I havn't done any research on dual grade other than seeing that Leica just came out with a brand new dual grade set-up.

I would have to look at the paperwork, and it was two years ago, but I think it was between $20,000.00 to $22,000.00 all together.

[ccstrebe]

Mine mounts in the cab. Not easy finding a home for it. I had to take the door and some of the flashing off to make it fit. The nice thing is it unbolts and I can take it with me at night. I had the auto/manual switch wired to the control handle on the 440 into a switch I wasn't using. Having that switch mounted on the control handle is a huge benefit.

Do you use it in manual much? The only time I use it is when I'm setting the blade to the grade I want and raising the mast/reveiver to the laser beam to hold that grade or moving from one location to another.

[ksss]

Do you use it in manual much? The only time I use it is when I'm setting the blade to the grade I want and raising the mast/reveiver to the laser beam to hold that grade or moving from one location to another.



When the blade gets too full and you need to drop off material, I use the manual feature. When the laser moves out of the band width, the wheels come all the way up. The manual feature prevents that and lets you square away the grade and finish it to grade by clicking the auto feature back on when you ready. Much faster than having to take you hands off the controls and reach for the control box which is the standard feature.

[Construct'O]

Reason of mounting the control box in the cab for me was that i do graded terraces and as you get out to the ends and your putting grade in the channels of the terrace sometimes you need to break(change) grade .

With the control box inside with you you can reset your grade .The display will tell you what you have changed it too.Run the powermast up or down till the receiver finds the laser and you set to go.Without getting out reset the receiver on the pole like when everything is manual.

To bad Leica bought out Laser Alignment.I always thought they was top of the line.I have a dual grade LB4 that i have had for a long time.I have post before about the problems of Leica taking over.

KSSS where are you pics at:confused: I would like to see your setup sometime if you get time.Sure your busy trying to get things done before the weather changes.Sounds like it's here the way it sounds.:rolleyes::usflag:

[Construct'O]

Here is another option that someone might be interested in.

http://www.agl-lasers.com/

I liked the looks of the control boxs,receivers,and they have a powermast.Also valves for the machine to make it auto.

Don't know about their lasers.They are located in Arkansas:usflag: