Failed overseed with slit seeder

[nashmower]

Ok,
Spring overseeding - not best. This I know, but I had a couple of clients that had dirt work done or large bare spots and it had to be done.

For all of the hype surrounding it, I rented and tried the Lawn Solutions Turf Revitalizer. (6.5hp).

I am now in the middle of April and about to have to GO BACK and overseed again because of an 1) underpowered machine that 2) sometimes had a sticky seed-bin gate.

I'm trying not to blame the equipment as I should have known better - I should've just done it the hard way, but I was trying to quell weed infestation by using a slit seeder.

So - any advice on the best way to go back and make things right for these clients?

I applied starter fert and Transition TTF 4 weeks ago after aeration (I know - spring aeration and fert - aerated because some hadn't done it in YEARS, and after last year's drought, they had some serious hard-pack).

We have had a torrent of rain since I seeded, with 3.5" in the last 7 days -- it's raining today, and will rain again on Friday.

Most of these lawns are established lawns with large bare areas or sparse grass, and I need to get grass growing ASAP (my money - they've already payed for the job).

Dare I try the 9hp Turf Revitalizer? Will it be powerful enough that I can verticut an entire yard, bumps, troughs and all?

Can I just go back and scratch these bare areas, apply seed, and more starter fert? (weeds - I know).

How long after I seed can I sub someone to come in and apply a post-emergent.

Thanks - it's tax week, and all of my spring turf renovation clients have (with good reason) been hurling dung at my fan. :)

I've never screwed seeding up before, and some of these are new clients, so as far as their concerned, I can't do anything right.

Maybe I'm thin-skinned on this, but I'm small enough that I can't just hack-off clients and leave, . . nor can I afford to do everything twice.

thanks in advance.

[nashmower]

ideas anyone?

[capetan]

so when did you put the seed down ? maybe the seed isnt growing becuase the temperature isnt high enough ...... i put seed down mid to late march and still nothing, i think the temp just needs to be higher, i would wait at least one to two months after planting the seed (in early spring), if it was the summer you should definitely see growth within in 10 to 14 days

[nashmower]

Thanks capetan,

It was 4 weeks ago. Soil temp was in the mid 50's when I seeded. We had a frost a couple of days later, but then temps warmed right back up. I seeded my yard 3 weeks ago and have plenty of grass coming up. I have another client seeded at the same time who has grass growing everywhere. :(

[capetan]

was the area in alot of shade ?
was there a pre emergent or weed and feed put down with in the last 2 months
maybe the soils hard or has clay
has the client been watering or has it been raining more than once a week

[nashmower]

Area is normally in shade, but leaves are not out yet, so it is not shady yet.

It most likely has some clay and is fairly hard. That's why I aerated the FOOL out of it.

[jbturf]

maybe the seed washed out in the heavy rains

[nashmower]

That's what I'm thinking, but if I go back with a more powerful slit-seeder, and actually get the seed in the ground, shouldn't I be ok?

I mean, . . that is the principal right?

thanks-

[vegomatic40]

The 9 hp model may well be plenty powerful if you select the right depth (not over 1/2") but may be a bear to operate if there is any slope whatsover. As you well know and have stated, spring is a terrible time to seed in Nashvegas. I wouldn't simply apply more fert. arbitrarily either. Fert. will not promote germination, but will help once it is up and going. Lots of people around Nashville squandered the opportunity last fall to seed after the disastrous summer and will be sorry. Just make sure to set the proper expectations with the customers. I try to discourage and even turn-away several spring seed jobs for many reasons but primarily it distrupts the sequence of herbicides and the poor rates of germination/survival. If they are just small areas SOD and be done with it.

[Lawncop26]

How big is the area, and do you have pictures?

[nashmower]

I did 8500 sq ft. Some was fescue, some was zoysia!? some was just weeds, and some was bare ground. I'll be back on the lawn next Monday. I'll try to remember and take some pics. Please check back Monday night for them. The house is right around the corner from Al Gore's house. Lawn has been a little neglected. :)

tree cover is from dogwoods and black walnuts if I remember correctly. - maybe a couple of oaks.

[nashmower]

Vegomatic,

I was very deliberate in explaining to them the difference in 'return on investment' in spring seeding vs waiting for the fall. Nobody remembers your words of caution once they've written a check.

[Lawncop26]

I think there most likely will be a soil problem, maybe a soil test? inform them of the seed box, if you properly install the seed, which you said you have experience, and I believe you do, then it can only be one of a few things... soil,timing(prob. not, since you have germination on your other lawns), a application of pre-m put down without you knowing, a washout, or customer not following up as instructed. Lets try to fix this with the least amount of $$$ possible, since its coming from your pocket. Pics will help alot, check back Monday.

[cgaengineer]

If it matters I am farther south and I seeded over 7 days ago and not a single seed has sprouted yet. Temps have been cooler and we have been lacking in sunshine. Area has stayed moist do to the amount of rain and cloudy sky's so I am hoping in another 4-5 days I will see something. This weekend more rain coming in so more cloudy sky's and also cooler temps again. I used an even less powerful machine (Bluebird PR22) and it really did a nice job preparing a seedbed in soils that are hard as a rock. Scotts brand starter fertilizer was applied after raking in the seeds.

[DoetschOutdoor]

And you are absolutely positive no pre emergent was put down or the customer didnt throw somthing like Halts down to control the weeds?? You should definately be seeing grass germinating. I planted grass seed over a stump 10 days ago and grass has been coming up for 3 days now and Im north of you.

[vegomatic40]

That area (BelleMeade) is notorious for excess shade due to those humongous old trees so even though the leaves are just now begining to put out, shade may still be a issue. You also mentioned it possibly had some (Black) Walnut trees providing a canopy. That isn't good at all since they make a natural "herbicide" that discourages undergrowth. As someone else mentioned, a soil test to determine pH may be in order as those old properties sometimes have many years of leaves ground up into the soil. Good for humus and O.M., not good for pH. Anyway good luck with it.

[LawnSolutionsCP]

Nashmower,

Glad to hear to chose one of our machines, wish you had better luck.

I have been in Nashville several times over the last few weeks training the rental stores where I assume you rented our seeder.

When attempting to seed dirt with our machine, we high do not recommend doing it in the spring, but if you do...make sure you only set the blades 1/4" deep. The reason is you will move too much dirt and cover the seed too deep causing uneven seed germination. The main reason we don't recommend attempting to seed dirt in the spring is both excessive rain to wash the seed away and low temps which delay germination. It may take weeks or just a few days depending on the weather. Then you add the chance of just 1 good rain to wash the seed away.

On existing turf where roots (dead or alive) are present in the soil, the seed is held in place by the slits that are cut in the ground even during heavy rains. It there is only dirt, it washes away very easily.

I talked to several people today who have had excellent results doing existing turf in the Nashville area this spring.

My recommendation: over seed again and let them know don't expect too much this spring... You will probably get good result now that the weather is warmer but plan on seeding this fall for best results. If they want instant results, put down sod. Or, wait until fall and they can have lush turf in about 1-week do to the time of year.

Hope this help.

David

[nashmower]

Thanks for the response all --

I went by the property yesterday to take a look. The client has drainage issues after the city put in a new sidewalk. The largest offending area looked like it had been a pond for most of the last 3 weeks and I still had a what looked like 50% germination rate. - not bad.

Most of the rest of the yard was taking well. They just didn't hear my words of warning about germination rate in the spring and fertilization in the middle of weed-pollen-party-time. All is well. I'm going to go by and spread some more seed on the moist, bare areas and gently pat it into the soil.

As for the Turf Revitalizer, David, thanks for the response. Your father was by hear the week I had rented it to make some mods to it. Nice guy - enjoyed the conversation.

I think it is simply a matter of the 6.5hp is NOT enough to do justice to any average yard in the Nashville area. It doesn't matter whether you are commercial or homeowner. These are not top-dressed, laser-leveled lawns (Far from it), so most of the troughs just don't get the seed into the ground. That makes the unit effective at 50% or less of the terrain on my average yards. And even if I was a homeowner who was renting, I don't feel like that's an acceptable success rate in seed placement.

I will try the 9hp when I get the chance.

Again, thank you all for the advice and help.

Vegomatic40, I briefed the client well beforehand about possibly hiring an arborist to come in and clear some light-lanes. BUT - with one of (so I hear) 3 coffee-bean trees in the state, a red dogwood, several other dogwoods, black walnuts and VERY mature oaks, I'm letting them know that they are getting a pretty good germination rate, and that they are making a conscious decision to value their trees over their turf. I can grow turf-grass a lot of places, but trees like theirs are hard to come by. It's their choice, . . and frankly, - it's beautiful. The turf will always be ok, . . but the lot as a whole is breathtaking.

Thanks again-

TurfMonkey

[LawnSolutionsCP]

Nashmower,

I was down there with all the stores last week. I showed them and let them demo the 9-hp model and the 30" model. They are looking at purchasing some of both models for a few stores in Nashville. I'll let you know as soon as they have them.

Our 6-hp model has been designed with 90% of the same parts as our 9-hp model but design to be easy to use for homeowners. They are commercial grade but not the speed machine that our larger model are known for.

Basically, both machines are great, but the difference is like a Porsche and a VW. The are both great German cars and will get you from A to B, but....a pretty large difference in performance.

David