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treemonkey
04-10-2008, 03:50 PM
This is not to fault JohnDeere/Lesco, they get enough bashing here already.

Our local JD Landscape had an open house today and while I was in the back room watching a guy put together some Lesco spreaders, I noticed that the box said "Made in China". The guy said "Yea, that's why I am assembling them in the back room." They still look to be the same high quality. I could not find any "made in" references on the spreader itself.

Bought some Dayton electric motors at W.W. Grainger today....now made in China.

Am I the only one that is concerned about the level of outsourcing going on?

Sad, sad, sad.

gregory
04-10-2008, 03:53 PM
most everything is made other places...cheap labor....its our own fault...

IN2MOWN
04-10-2008, 03:54 PM
This is not to fault JohnDeere/Lesco, they get enough bashing here already.

Our local JD Landscape had an open house today and while I was in the back room watching a guy put together some Lesco spreaders, I noticed that the box said "Made in China". The guy said "Yea, that's why I am assembling them in the back room." They still look to be the same high quality. I could not find any "made in" references on the spreader itself.

Bought some Dayton electric motors at W.W. Grainger today....now made in China.

Am I the only one that is concerned about the level of outsourcing going on?

Sad, sad, sad.



A little but the fact remains that until we can get American guys to do the work for what the Chinese or other Southeast Asian workers do it for then nothing will change.

America flys the flag of independence yet we rely way to much on other countries to do things for us.

LushGreenLawn
04-10-2008, 07:26 PM
Mabye if minimum wage went away, some of the lowballers would go out and lowball the guys working at mcdonalds.

teeca
04-10-2008, 07:53 PM
if the government of the usa owned every business, then we could compete with china, i hope that never happins!

lesco (i mean JD Landscapes) must be making a boat load off those POS right now!! maybe they will redesign them so they spread evenly left to right and more then 3'. but then i wouldn't have any SS spreader to spread salt on the sidwalks in the winter.

IA_James
04-10-2008, 08:14 PM
most everything is made other places...cheap labor....its our own fault...

Yeah, stupid Americans. Won't work for $2 a day, what are they thinkin? If this was a 3rd world country, it'd be okay.

sedge
04-10-2008, 08:48 PM
most everything is made other places...cheap labor....its our own fault...

Yes, it's our own fault we want cheap, cheap, cheap. If you want low prices and barely ok quality, then expect to have it out sourced. If you want to pay 2x, 3x or more and better quality, then it can be made here..... guess where "most" would rather have it made?

Makes me laugh, Dem's ***** all day about American jobs leaving, but they all run to Wal-Mart to buy their personal stuff as cheap as they can. Go figure.:laugh:

gregory
04-10-2008, 09:09 PM
i don't shop at wal mart...hate the place...if our money went futher then we wouldn't have to pay some other country to do our work for us.....its not only cheap labor its also cheap material......that old sayin is true you get what you pay for...there is alot of different grades of SS...its not only cheap labor....

hell look at the auto industry..look at the touble they are in its there own fault..truck prices have never been higher and there have never been more plastic on a trk..maybe some of the high paid ceo should take a pay cut and drop the price of there trks alittle and increase the quality.....do you think diesel prices are $4.00 a gallon in these 3rd world country's? i went to costa rica 2 years ago everything was a diesel i aksed the guy how much diesel was and it converted over to .50 a gallon american money......hmmmm makes you think alittle.....lets pay americans welfare for doing nothing that plan has been working good

rob7233
04-10-2008, 10:05 PM
most everything is made other places...cheap labor....its our own fault...

The answer to this is the FAIRTAX. Read more, Search amazon etc for: ISBN 978-0-06-087549-7

Go to Fairtax.org

tlg
04-10-2008, 10:40 PM
We have become a country that produces less and less. Manufacturing is be sent over to other countries like China because it has become impossible to compete. Government regulations, cheap imports and a weak dollar all have caused this problem. When we don't make anything people don't have jobs. When people don't have jobs they can't buy anything from China or anywhere else for that matter. Try to buy made in the USA products if you can. Chances are you will be looking for a long time. It does not surprise me that JDL- LESCO has went to China. Wal-mart, Lowe's, Home Depot, Kmart do to. I bet the price on that Chinese spreader is the same as the old USA model too. At some point we will all be victims of this mess and perpetrators as well.

Hissing Cobra
04-10-2008, 10:53 PM
Guys, I've assembled a lot of the new Stainless Steel Spreaders at our John Deere Landscapes store. The quality is actually better than the models that they're replacing. The part number is different but everything else is of better quality. Lesco/John Deere Landscapes even provides a Hopper Cover with the new versions - at no extra charge. The price is still the same @ $369.99.

The frame and closing assembly is now made out of GRADE 1 Stainless Steel instead of Grade 3 Stainless Steel. They also have all rough edges of the steel sanded and the entire unit is polished - neither of which took place on the older models. It's even packaged better than the older units, as everything is held together inside the box with zip ties, bubble wrap and tape. The Chinese even thought to take the wheels off of them and package them inside the hopper so that this allows them to use a smaller box. As a result, they can now ship them "3-High" on a pallet instead of "2-High", thus reducing shipping charges.

Also of note is our brand new 50 lb. spreader. It's a smaller version of the Stainless Steel model but has a few differences. The wheels are smaller (but still filled with air), it has a 4:1 gearbox (instead of the 5:1) and a Black Powdercoated Carbon Steel Frame (instead of the Stainless Steel Frame. The closing assembly is still made out of the Stainless Steel and the settings are the same as the 80 lb. Stainless Steel Model. There will be a manual side deflector shield available for these in the coming weeks, as well as a remote side deflector shiled and remote 3rd hole closer. The best part? They're priced perfectly @ $159.00 and I can't even keep them in my store. I just thought you all may want to know about these.

I'm concerned about outsourcing our stuff to other countries and I'm also concerned about the quality of the stuff that we're importing but when someone's got a better idea, you have to explore it. Us Americans could learn a LOT from other Nation's.

PHS
04-11-2008, 07:40 AM
Us Americans could learn a LOT from other Nation's.


I agree, we're going to have to make changes if we are going to stay successful as a country. After WW2 we had a long run of essentially uncontested manufacturing/economic dominance in the world and during that time the government and the unions have squeezed manufacturing companies for everything they're worth. That was fine when there was no other place to go but now there's a host of countries that can do the same thing for a fraction of the cost.

gregory
04-11-2008, 08:43 AM
I agree, we're going to have to make changes if we are going to stay successful as a country. After WW2 we had a long run of essentially uncontested manufacturing/economic dominance in the world and during that time the government and the unions have squeezed manufacturing companies for everything they're worth. That was fine when there was no other place to go but now there's a host of countries that can do the same thing for a fraction of the cost.

very true........like i said its our own fault...

Ric
04-11-2008, 10:26 AM
very true........like i said its our own fault...

Gregory

Ronald Regan wasn't the great communicator he was given credit for. His BUY AMERICAN statements were never embraced by the Unwashed Masses or Corporate America who went for the God Almighty Dollar.

If History has been recorded correctly, It is Colonization not Globalization that built great powers.

IA_James
04-11-2008, 10:50 AM
I agree, we're going to have to make changes if we are going to stay successful as a country. After WW2 we had a long run of essentially uncontested manufacturing/economic dominance in the world and during that time the government and the unions have squeezed manufacturing companies for everything they're worth. That was fine when there was no other place to go but now there's a host of countries that can do the same thing for a fraction of the cost.


So we should go back to the standard of living "enjoyed" by America prior to WW2? A little Great Depression action is just what we need? Living like a 3rd world country?

gregory
04-11-2008, 02:16 PM
i don't think anybody here is saying lets go back to pre WWII ..but lets keep american money in america...how muich money a year is enough? from ceo to large companys to oil companys to pro sports players....

IA_James
04-11-2008, 02:26 PM
Well is it greedy CEOs and football players or the UAW? These companies all had actuaries who could run the numbers on this, they knew what it would cost or close to it. The only difference between then and now is that nobody could predict that GM would spend the last 10 years or so making ugly cars. There isn't naything the matter with the Big 3 automakers that having a decent product wouldn't cure entirely. Of course, that's because China doesn't make cars yet. Thank the gov't for the trade policies that got us in this boat.

Marcos
04-11-2008, 02:36 PM
Guys, I've assembled a lot of the new Stainless Steel Spreaders at our John Deere Landscapes store. The quality is actually better than the models that they're replacing. The part number is different but everything else is of better quality. Lesco/John Deere Landscapes even provides a Hopper Cover with the new versions - at no extra charge. The price is still the same @ $369.99.

The frame and closing assembly is now made out of GRADE 1 Stainless Steel instead of Grade 3 Stainless Steel. They also have all rough edges of the steel sanded and the entire unit is polished - neither of which took place on the older models. It's even packaged better than the older units, as everything is held together inside the box with zip ties, bubble wrap and tape. The Chinese even thought to take the wheels off of them and package them inside the hopper so that this allows them to use a smaller box. As a result, they can now ship them "3-High" on a pallet instead of "2-High", thus reducing shipping charges.

I'm concerned about outsourcing our stuff to other countries and I'm also concerned about the quality of the stuff that we're importing but when someone's got a better idea, you have to explore it. Us Americans could learn a LOT from other Nation's.


Yeah...A couple weeks I bought 3 of these spreaders...thinking that they were the same thing I'd bought 3-4 years ago...but they're not.

The METAL may indeed be better...but when you examine the unit closely, it's obvious the plastic parts on it are of an inferior "jinky jink" quality to what was produced in Cleveland. Now I wish I'd bought a few more of the USA built spreaders, and shelved them, a few years ago.

But that wouldn't work out for long, of course, because Lesco-eaten-by-a-Deere would just "phase out" the KEY parts for the older-style spreaders, anyway !!!

:hammerhead:

Hissing Cobra
04-11-2008, 05:05 PM
Once again, you couldn't be more WRONG!

The plastic pieces (Hopper, Adjustable Keys, Enclosed Gearset and Housing, Impellar, Bushings and Wheels are of the SAME exact quality on the "NEW" spreaders as they are on the "OLD" spreaders. Not only do they share the same specifications but they also share the same part numbers. These components must be manufactured to Lesco/John Deere Landscapes' specifications and are of the same exact quality as before. Not only did Deere IMPROVE the quality of the spreader by adding Grade 1 SANDED/POLISHED Stainless Steel, they've thrown in a spreader cover to boot. This is a Win/Win for the consumer, especially since the price has been kept the same. What's NOT to like about that.

You can stay up high on your horse and dream about the "Good 'Ole Days", when EVERYTHING was built better because it originated in the States. You may want to put sunglasses on though, because you're starting to become blind by change.

teeca
04-11-2008, 05:56 PM
wow, a free hopper cover and an optional side deflector $$, and optional third hole shut off$$ ? go figer, my SR2000 came standard with all that and stainless steel that doesn't rust and spreads farther and better. i hope anyboy in the market for a spreader checks out the SR200 before they buy a lesco or other.

Hissing Cobra
04-11-2008, 10:38 PM
Well, I've used the SR200 and the shield is horrible - definitely not as good as the Lesco curved shield. As for the Lesco spreaders, the 3rd hole shut is standard on all models. There's a reason why the Lesco is the top selling spreader. Can you say QUALITY?

LIBERTYLANDSCAPING
04-12-2008, 10:03 AM
Want to buy "real American made"? Buy a Spyker spreader-Made right here in Indiana & far superior in spread & build quality to the Lesco. :) ...Oh, & it's cost the same.

LIBERTYLANDSCAPING
04-12-2008, 10:06 AM
Well, I've used the SR200 and the shield is horrible - definitely not as good as the Lesco curved shield. As for the Lesco spreaders, the 3rd hole shut is standard on all models. There's a reason why the Lesco is the top selling spreader. Can you say QUALITY?


Lesco is probably the best selling spreader (or at least it was...) because of the widespread availabilty... In the Lesco stores. With the attitude toward Lesc/JD that may change, as less people frequent that store. P.S.-I realized you are biased & beating the Lesco/JD drum because you work there:laugh:

tlg
04-12-2008, 01:59 PM
Somewhere in Ohio theres a guy out of work who used to build Lesco spreaders. He was your customer as well as the customer of countless other companies. He like the many other people have become victims of this global economy. He no longer has his lawn fertilized or his grass cut by you our anybody else. He may be on the verge of losing his house and he struggling to feed his family. This is a really a vicious cycle with no end in site. I understand JDL - Lesco's dilemma. They are cutting cost anywhere they can just like the rest of us in business would. The problem is this in the long run will end up costing us all a lot more.

treemonkey
04-12-2008, 03:10 PM
Very well said tlg. Most of us are either sticking our heads in the sand regarding the deep impact of all of this and/or we just don't know what to do to change things.

Here in Michigan, we have never gotten out of the last recession.

jrc lawncare
04-12-2008, 05:02 PM
Want to buy "real American made"? Buy a Spyker spreader-Made right here in Indiana & far superior in spread & build quality to the Lesco. :) ...Oh, & it's cost the same. Been thinking about doing that myself, i've heard good about em. The 288?

tremor
04-12-2008, 05:09 PM
Last year it seems that Lesco was giving away a free spreader with every pallet of Merit. Now we're shocked the manufacturing jobs went to China? Pony up & pay for good American made goods & this won't happen. Fitz is rolling in his grave.

Victor
04-12-2008, 05:20 PM
Well, I've used the SR200 and the shield is horrible - definitely not as good as the Lesco curved shield. As for the Lesco spreaders, the 3rd hole shut is standard on all models. There's a reason why the Lesco is the top selling spreader. Can you say QUALITY?

I've been following your posts for awhile now Cobra and this statement confirms my suspicions. That's an absolutely laughable opine. You're the only person I've ever seen state that they prefer the Lesco spreader over the SR2000. I don't suppose your bias would have anything to do with it, now would it.

LIBERTYLANDSCAPING
04-12-2008, 06:09 PM
Been thinking about doing that myself, i've heard good about em. The 288?

Yep, the 288.... You won't believe the spread evenness, if you've been using a Lesco!
:clapping:

philk17088
04-12-2008, 06:11 PM
Yes, it's our own fault we want cheap, cheap, cheap. If you want low prices and barely ok quality, then expect to have it out sourced. If you want to pay 2x, 3x or more and better quality, then it can be made here..... guess where "most" would rather have it made?

Makes me laugh, Dem's ***** all day about American jobs leaving, but they all run to Wal-Mart to buy their personal stuff as cheap as they can. Go figure.:laugh:
Lesco didn't lower the price of the spreaders since they went to slave labor now did they? I bought my spreader 6 years ago and it was made in the USA and nowthat they are made in China they cost even more. So much for your theory. All that money saved on labor didn't benefit anyone but lesco stock holders. They could have easily kept the manufacturing in the USA nad charged accordingly. Real pros would pay the price. Cheap outfits would run to tractor supply for a hundred dollar piece of junk agri fab.

jrc lawncare
04-12-2008, 06:14 PM
Yep, the 288.... You won't believe the spread evenness, if you've been using a Lesco!
:clapping: Thanks for the info. I will be looking into them, especially since it is American made. I don't care if it costs more, either.

Marcos
04-14-2008, 07:52 PM
Yep, the 288.... You won't believe the spread evenness, if you've been using a Lesco!


Thanks for the info. I will be looking into them, especially since it is American made. I don't care if it costs more, either.

This morning I brought back two of the three Lesco SS spreaders I picked up three weeks ago. ( I'd've brought back all 3 if I hadn't already used one quite so much!)
Essentially...I told the idiot manager I was through with "Lesco-eaten-by-a-Deere", and the rampant GLOBALISM :hammerhead: that company stands for !!

bike5200
04-14-2008, 09:55 PM
I did some work at a house today, the homeowner told me that Cub Cadet made all of Lesco's equipment for 10 years. When JD bought them out they lost the business. JD has a new manufacturing plant some where, the homeowner did not know where it was at. This homeowner said that JD has been taking select contractors to tour the plant.
Cub Cadet has a Commercial line of equipment, made in Ohio, the pictures look like the old Lesco (before JD) but a different color. He also said that Cub Cadet parts will work on old Lesco. The only item not available was the push spreader with a motor on it, Lesco had a patent on that.
This is the conversation I had with the Homeowner.

tlg
04-14-2008, 10:01 PM
There was a time when you said John-Deere you thought USA. Lesco the same thing. Today I heard our local school district will likely start teaching the kids Chinese within the next year. Good thing since China will own us some day with all the money we OWE them. Everyone should be angry about this Chinese spreader and every other product that puts Americans out of work. It's not just JDL- LESCO it's every company. I own a couple of Harley's. American bikes and about as red, white and blue as you can get. After market genuine H-D parts come from CHINA. If I could build my own stuff I would. This is Michigan people don't want foreign spreaders on their lawns or foreign trucks servicing their property. About 20 years ago a lawn company in the burbs of Detroit lost several accounts when their Datsun service truck tried to service auto workers lawns. It didn't fly then and It sure won't fly now. We have about 7 Lesco spreaders and at least one spyker. They will have to turn to dust before we buy the China model. Buy the way those Lesco China models are hard to push..... there full of lead.:laugh::usflag:

LushGreenLawn
04-14-2008, 11:11 PM
The last post I'm sure was meant as a joke, but think about this, the only material that makes plastic glossy and shiney is....LEAD.

If the new spreaders are nice and glossy, they have lead in them.

teeca
04-15-2008, 10:41 PM
i had a honda nighthawk many years ago because i couldn't afford a harley, had a guy on harley blowing me s**t about it, come to find that his 'new' softtail had 'made in china' on the front forks. needles to say we road for a few miles togeather and he had to stop for gas. porche designed to engine for harley's vrod, the world is so much smaller then everbefore. isuzu makes the diesels (or the design, however you want to look at it) for GM, etc.etc.

PSUTURFGEEK
04-16-2008, 08:30 PM
Somewhere in Ohio theres a guy out of work who used to build Lesco spreaders. He was your customer as well as the customer of countless other companies. He like the many other people have become victims of this global economy. He no longer has his lawn fertilized or his grass cut by you our anybody else. He may be on the verge of losing his house and he struggling to feed his family. This is a really a vicious cycle with no end in site. I understand JDL - Lesco's dilemma. They are cutting cost anywhere they can just like the rest of us in business would. The problem is this in the long run will end up costing us all a lot more.

I don't think you really understand what your'e talking about, everyone that was let go by JDL were pretty much customer service reps that JDL already had in Troy Michigan, would you pay for two duplicate offices for your company, Nobody in the field or stores got let go and all Product managers and people of importance still will be with the company, The lease on the Cleveland building has over two years left on it and after that a smaller office will be available, very few jobs were lost and take a better look at where youre chemicals and the raw materials you use everyday are coming from, most likely not the US and if they are your'e probably paying to much. This comes from a very good source now with UAP

Hissing Cobra
04-16-2008, 08:39 PM
Last year it seems that Lesco was giving away a free spreader with every pallet of Merit. Now we're shocked the manufacturing jobs went to China? Pony up & pay for good American made goods & this won't happen. Fitz is rolling in his grave.

No, you're wrong. Lesco was giving away a free spreader if you bought 5 pallets of Merit. Also, that was a special promotion through Bayer - the manufacturer of Merit.

Hissing Cobra
04-16-2008, 08:41 PM
The last post I'm sure was meant as a joke, but think about this, the only material that makes plastic glossy and shiney is....LEAD.

If the new spreaders are nice and glossy, they have lead in them.

The plastic is the same and hasn't changed. Remember, these have to be manufactured to Lesco/JDL's specs. Those specs have not changed.

Hissing Cobra
04-16-2008, 08:43 PM
Lesco is probably the best selling spreader (or at least it was...) because of the widespread availabilty... In the Lesco stores. With the attitude toward Lesc/JD that may change, as less people frequent that store. P.S.-I realized you are biased & beating the Lesco/JD drum because you work there:laugh:

Not biased at all. I've used many different spreaders and I like the Lesco one the best. I used it for many years before I began working here.

PSUTURFGEEK
04-16-2008, 09:14 PM
The spreader deal is hard to beat, I know a guy who just got five of them this week and his Allectus doesn't even ship until mid may.

tlg
04-16-2008, 09:41 PM
I don't think you really understand what your'e talking about, everyone that was let go by JDL were pretty much customer service reps that JDL already had in Troy Michigan, would you pay for two duplicate offices for your company, Nobody in the field or stores got let go and all Product managers and people of importance still will be with the company, The lease on the Cleveland building has over two years left on it and after that a smaller office will be available, very few jobs were lost and take a better look at where youre chemicals and the raw materials you use everyday are coming from, most likely not the US and if they are your'e probably paying to much. This comes from a very good source now with UAP

I understand completely! The original post was about Lesco spreaders NOW being made in China. If those spreaders are not being made here in the USA like they had been somebody is out of a job. I Never commented on customer service reps jobs, JDL's office buildings or anything else about the LESCO buy out. I can tell you that I know of at least two LESCO people who have quit JDL because they did not like the new deal they got, but that was not the point of the post. As far as the materials we buy the labels clearly show made in the USA. At what we feel is a reasonable price. Where the raw materials came from to make those products is anybody's guess. I also would like to point out that we would buy USA products over any other, but relent that we really have no choice but to buy whats available. If it comes down to just price on our purchases we will all be in trouble. It"s not always about the money. As far as the JDL - LESCO deal is concerned and our business relationship with them I'm satisfied. We have great service, they provide excellent products and have for many years.:usflag:

RigglePLC
04-16-2008, 10:00 PM
Whoops --and take a look at the Quicksilver label, "Active ingredient made in China".

And where do you suppose all that urea comes from? Lots of it comes from Russia. And other countries that have a big supply of natural gas (from which to make urea). Sigh--a sad fact of life. And with the lower value of the dollar the price will keep going up.

I suspect there are other generic chemical products made overseas--Roundup for instance.
And my new Briggs and Stratton starter motor--sent to me by Permagreen--made in China. At least it works.

LIBERTYLANDSCAPING
04-16-2008, 10:13 PM
I'm not opposed to imports at all. Heck, I used to work for a German company. The propblem with Chinese made products is that they do not compete on a level playing field with us. We have to conform to strict, nannystate rules & regulations, while they do not over in China. Their track record of treatment of other human beings is awful. And last but not least, they are COMMUNIST! So, as I am given the option, I will buy my products made in the USA. Oh, and it has the added benefit of having a better spread pattern:)

PHS
04-16-2008, 10:29 PM
And with the lower value of the dollar the price will keep going up.

That's the truth. I went to Germany in '04 and the Euro was around $1.20. In '06 it was 1.27. I'm going to Poland in August and now it's almost $1.60 and rising quickly. IMO we have to stop dropping interest rates. Trying to avert one crisis and causing another.

The propblem with Chinese made products is that they do not compete on a level playing field with us.

Good point.

tlg
04-16-2008, 10:33 PM
Whoops --and take a look at the Quicksilver label, "Active ingredient made in China".

And where do you suppose all that urea comes from? Lots of it comes from Russia. And other countries that have a big supply of natural gas (from which to make urea). Sigh--a sad fact of life. And with the lower value of the dollar the price will keep going up.

I suspect there are other generic chemical products made overseas--Roundup for instance.
And my new Briggs and Stratton starter motor--sent to me by Permagreen--made in China. At least it works.

yes Riggle your right. The active for quicksilver is made in china. Packed and assembled in the US. I'm fully aware of the import of urea and other raw materials to assemble products here. All I have been saying is I would buy American when I could and I was not happy to hear that a Lesco spreader was now made in China. I fully understand that many products we use are assembled, developed, and may contain additives, raw materials or parts made in other countries. While I may have to accept this fact. I don't have to like it.

ted putnam
04-16-2008, 10:39 PM
I'm not opposed to imports at all. Heck, I used to work for a German company. The propblem with Chinese made products is that they do not compete on a level playing field with us. We have to conform to strict, nannystate rules & regulations, while they do not over in China. Their track record of treatment of other human beings is awful. And last but not least, they are COMMUNIST! So, as I am given the option, I will buy my products made in the USA. Oh, and it has the added benefit of having a better spread pattern:)


It is also important to remember that some( not all) of that uneveness in the playing field was brought on by the american worker. In some areas of the economy people have priced themselves right out of a job. I do not agree with buying everything we own from the Chinese. I am against everything they stand for as far as how their country is run. The fact is we can't compete with slave wages and the american public as a whole are bargain hunters looking for the cheapest price. Our biggest problem is we depend on the rest of the world for way to much and until we can be more efficient and self-sustaining, we will be at their mercy.

LIBERTYLANDSCAPING
04-16-2008, 10:53 PM
[QUOTE=ted putnam;2275012]It is also important to remember that some( not all) of that unevenness in the playing field was brought on by the american worker. In some areas of the economy people have priced themselves right out of a job.QUOTE]

I could not agree more! I be live Unions are much to blame, among other things. Many UAW people think that a job putting screws in a car going down the assembly line is worth $30/ hr + benefits & pension...And it just isn't, So...when the Unions rile up the workforce to try to get those numbers, the companies can either:
A)Give them what they want, raise prices-es substantially, lose market share & risk going out of business

B)Send manufacturing overseas where they can get it done less.

I'm glad to live in America where if we want, we can choose to be an entrepreneur & make our own way, and buy products, when we can, that do not support Communist Chinease....And thats what I intend to do:)

teeca
04-17-2008, 08:37 PM
sucks can't even buy a havanna cigar without going to cuba or canada, but can buy all of the other communist made products we want from china.

americanlawn
04-18-2008, 07:07 PM
Want to buy "real American made"? Buy a Spyker spreader-Made right here in Indiana & far superior in spread & build quality to the Lesco. :) ...Oh, & it's cost the same.

I respect LESCO/John Deere Landsapes, but Spyker's 288 spreader puts their spreaders to shame. Made in the great Midwest, USA too.

Our President wanted to open up our Alaska oil fields years ago, but the dems put a stop to it. That's why we paid $3.50 a gasoline today for gasoline. Diesel is now $4.15......jeeze, I hope nobody votes democrat this fall. duh:hammerhead:

SCB
04-19-2008, 12:46 PM
Yeah, stupid Americans. Won't work for $2 a day, what are they thinkin? If this was a 3rd world country, it'd be okay.

Well, worker in china won't work for $2 a day either right now. apparantly the info you have old enough. things are changing.

I don't understand why so many people have problem with Chinese manufacturing. there are some bad made in china product indeed, but you will still find many superior products made there, it can be better than American, and with lower price

SCB
04-19-2008, 01:00 PM
I agree, we're going to have to make changes if we are going to stay successful as a country. After WW2 we had a long run of essentially uncontested manufacturing/economic dominance in the world and during that time the government and the unions have squeezed manufacturing companies for everything they're worth. That was fine when there was no other place to go but now there's a host of countries that can do the same thing for a fraction of the cost.

Agree. American need to think about change, rather than just simply keep complaining about chinese manufacturing. think about that, american manufacturing needs to complete with many other counties, not just china. Japan, Korea, etc

SCB
04-19-2008, 01:05 PM
Well is it greedy CEOs and football players or the UAW? These companies all had actuaries who could run the numbers on this, they knew what it would cost or close to it. The only difference between then and now is that nobody could predict that GM would spend the last 10 years or so making ugly cars. There isn't naything the matter with the Big 3 automakers that having a decent product wouldn't cure entirely. Of course, that's because China doesn't make cars yet. Thank the gov't for the trade policies that got us in this boat.

China is making a lot of cars right now actually.

SCB
04-19-2008, 01:13 PM
Lesco didn't lower the price of the spreaders since they went to slave labor now did they? I bought my spreader 6 years ago and it was made in the USA and nowthat they are made in China they cost even more. So much for your theory. All that money saved on labor didn't benefit anyone but lesco stock holders. They could have easily kept the manufacturing in the USA nad charged accordingly. Real pros would pay the price. Cheap outfits would run to tractor supply for a hundred dollar piece of junk agri fab.

Everything is getting more and more expensive in last 2 years, material price goes up, dollar is getting weaker (purchasing power goes up) etc. we should be satisfied lesco still keep the same price as years ago.
Again, "slave labor" is not a suitable word to describe the labor in china right now, check out some latest info in china you will understand more about that.

SCB
04-19-2008, 01:24 PM
The last post I'm sure was meant as a joke, but think about this, the only material that makes plastic glossy and shiney is....LEAD.

If the new spreaders are nice and glossy, they have lead in them.

Biased. The reason the tubes looks nice can be they use SS tube with better grade (320 or 400 grinding) or eletropolished, there is nothing to do with Lead....

LushGreenLawn
04-19-2008, 05:27 PM
Biased. The reason the tubes looks nice can be they use SS tube with better grade (320 or 400 grinding) or eletropolished, there is nothing to do with Lead....

Biased? Not sure what that means?

I am talking about plastic parts. Obviously there are other ways to make metal shine. Plastic is dull when it is manufactured. Lead makes it shine. If you look at almost anything plastic that is made in america, it does not have a high gloss shine. Most products from China do. This is because there are regulations in the U.S. for adding lead to plastic, but almost none in China. Its funny that they can inport something that it illegal to manufacture in the U.S., but they can. I used to work in a chemical plant, that is where I am getting my info from.

SCB
04-20-2008, 01:04 AM
Biased? Not sure what that means?

I am talking about plastic parts. Obviously there are other ways to make metal shine. Plastic is dull when it is manufactured. Lead makes it shine. If you look at almost anything plastic that is made in america, it does not have a high gloss shine. Most products from China do. This is because there are regulations in the U.S. for adding lead to plastic, but almost none in China. Its funny that they can inport something that it illegal to manufacture in the U.S., but they can. I used to work in a chemical plant, that is where I am getting my info from.

Well there are also many ways to make the plastic shiny and glossy. Differernt mold finish (polished or just EDM, etc) could make the molded part completely different look.
Those chinese products with coating (powder coating for instance) and painting (oil-based parint,etc) could contain excessive lead content, as published a lot last year. But it's changing now, most importors and chinese manufacturer are establishing a strict system to control that.

Grass Happens
04-20-2008, 01:42 AM
I personally liked the story I read last year when writing a a research paper regarding how un-communist china is. It involved a hi-ranking factory manager/ceo/whatever they call them, being hung for letting poor quality exports come to us. Turns out they weren't as un-communist as I thought.
What were those other brands y'all mentioned. spyker 288 and the s2000? who makes that?

PHS
04-20-2008, 08:36 AM
I don't understand why so many people have problem with Chinese manufacturing.

Personally I don't think it's so much a matter of people being anti-Chinese but more of a backlash against the flood of foreign made products in general. My Grandfather was a carpenter and my dad a machinist. Especially in my grandpas shop, there were damn few tools that weren't the highest quality with a Made in USA stamp on them. In a machinst's shop there's inevitably some German and Japanese tools too but it's a source of pride for those making the products and those using them. You can understand why many of us aren't happy about going into a store nowadays and finding wall to wall Made in China products.

Some of us on the board disagree on how we (as a country) got to this point and how we're going to get out of it but I think we all want to see American made products get back in the game.

Well, worker in china won't work for $2 a day either right now. apparantly the info you have old enough. things are changing.


That's a good point. A very good friend of mine is an economist from CN and she's told me that wages and the standard of living is rising quickly there with all of the money going in. When that happens workers start demanding more money and the wage gap closes. That's what happened in Japan. It wasn't that many years ago when they built cheap junk and now, things made in Japan are good quality and they aren't cheap.

teeca
04-20-2008, 09:27 PM
I personally liked the story I read last year when writing a a research paper regarding how un-communist china is. It involved a hi-ranking factory manager/ceo/whatever they call them, being hung for letting poor quality exports come to us. Turns out they weren't as un-communist as I thought.
What were those other brands y'all mentioned. spyker 288 and the s2000? who makes that?

spyker made in indiana, sr2000 made in ohio

bike5200
04-22-2008, 09:17 PM
My wife knows a priest that work a mission in Cambodia. We had him over for dinner a few years ago. He said that clothing manufactures will set a factory in town. These are just metal buildings. They will be there for a while, but when employees want high wages they will pack up and leave. He said this is hard on the workers, they are working for a pay check and they go to work one day and the place is gone. He said they will take the building with them too.

PHS
04-23-2008, 07:46 AM
Same thing happens here too. If an employee pushes for too much money they either don't get it and decide to leave or they get it for short time and then get laid off during "restructuring".

EdTLawn
04-24-2008, 12:04 AM
We have become a country that produces less and less. Manufacturing is be sent over to other countries like China because it has become impossible to compete. Government regulations, cheap imports and a weak dollar all have caused this problem. When we don't make anything people don't have jobs. When people don't have jobs they can't buy anything from China or anywhere else for that matter. Try to buy made in the USA products if you can. Chances are you will be looking for a long time. It does not surprise me that JDL- LESCO has went to China. Wal-mart, Lowe's, Home Depot, Kmart do to. I bet the price on that Chinese spreader is the same as the old USA model too. At some point we will all be victims of this mess and perpetrators as well.

Its called corporate America's greed !

PHS
04-24-2008, 08:07 AM
...let me guess, Canadian corporations are entirely benevolent :)