Roll Off Dumpster Business

[sloppyjoe]

Hi Everyone,
Do you think the economy is in the tank too bad to buy a roll off dumpster business? I am located in NorthWest Florida. The deal is a 2006 Sterling roll off truck & 33 30 yd cans for 200K. I am still researching things but I thought I would get a pros opinion.

Thanks

[RockSet N' Grade]

The truck and cans is one component. Does that come with a yard ie: a piece of real estate? Or a lease for a certain amount of time to store your containers and base out of? More importantly, to me, what are the numbers? Meaning, what kind of regular accounts does this company have, is it a new construction based business, what type of repeat clients are there, last 3 years gross receipts, what kind of competition is there in that area, and yada yada yada........in my mind, the truck and cans are a small component......crunch the numbers to find the real answers and if the numbers are good or there is potential there in growth or better management you will be better able to come to an answer......

[sloppyjoe]

No yard for storage. They only seem to have been in this business ventiure sense 2006. The guys that own this have seperate businesses in land clearing & construction. (...as the story goes). Aparently they are in a disagreement. I am still trying to figure out the details. Their is 60K still financed on the truck & the cans are paid off. More details as the arrive....thanks for the input.

[stuvecorp]

RockSet covered most everything, Is this something that helps you or your business right now or is it a stand alone venture? If you have good clients/contracts and the truck is good maybe, just run the numbers real good.

[RockSet N' Grade]

As I suspected, this is not a long standing venture.....Anything and everything "flew" in the last 2-3 years and now that a bit of tightening is occuring, you will be seeing more and more "off loading" of these new start-ups, which for the most part, are on their way to becoming non-existent from their own lack of momentum. What you want to look for, besides hard assets and the books is an intangible called " good will ". That is basically the personality of the company, their reputation, and peoples willingness to use them again as repeat customers......if there is no good will and solid business base other than their supplementing their own jobs with a sideline business, that company is worth very little as a package.

[Gravel Rat]

I think that price is a little high.

One of the local contractors last year bought a brandnew Sterling tandem axle rolloff the truck is spec'ed heavy with a heavy rolloff hoist. I think they paid 150,000 CND.

I wouldn't go for that deal unless they drop the price 10-15 grand and even then your paying alot.

[AWJ Services]

The cans are about 3K to 5k a piece new and the truck is over 100k new.
Is it a hook lift or cable?
I would only do a hook lift so if it is a cable setup then that would be a problem for me.
Also have you looked into dump costs and also do you have any inert land fills close buy?
The dump fees really get you here in Atlanta and there are huge differences from dump too dump which affects driving time.
Once the buisness gets built up the cans will stay out so the storage yard does not need too be too big.
If you are going too do dirt and concrete then you will need some 20 yard cans as well.

The price is not great but it will be cheaper than new.
I would look at getting at least a 30 to 40% discount over a new purchase of like items.

[sloppyjoe]

Thanks for the input everyone. This would be a new venture for me & I suspect with the slowing of the economy these guys are just trying to unload while they can. They claim to keep the cans rented most of the time but I have yet to see any numbers form their busniess. Given that the housing market & the economy is down this would probably be a big risk to take on now.
I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again.

[SLSNursery]

It sounds like you are holding off, but here is some information anyway -

We have 3 roll-offs, used primarily for landscaping, deliveries, etc. 2 Small Hooks and 1 large cable roll off with a stinger tail. They are part of our business, not a separate division. The function of the trucks is to provide options for less trailers and more versatility. Some of the bodies are flatbeds, some are cans. I also had a container company as a tenant and will share observations on that as well.

When we rent cans to people, I find it hard to be competitively priced. There is money to be made, but if a person calls up and is shopping price we rarely get the job. I charge 80/hour for trucking and Dump fees plus a small markup. Most companies flat rate the can and put a per ton limit on it. My tenant would deliver cans all day long and be busy, but seemed to run tight on the funds more often than not. His philosophy was great customer service and a cheap price. He does a lot of work for 1 builder, which provides for great cash flow, but when the builder says jump, he says how high. It is like having all your eggs in one basket. Who does this prospective company work for? General public? Builders? Where is there more money to be made?

I don't like to let the can sit for more than a few days during the landscape season, or maybe 1 or 2 weeks during the winter. Regular dumpster customers often need the can for a long while. If you let the can sit at a job for 2 weeks, under the best circumstances you can get 26 turns per year. What kind of policies does the current owner's contract provide for? I think my previous tenant was way too flexible, as folks would keep cans for months with no dump and no surcharge that I ever heard about.

Storage is a problem. Customers don't usually want to see the containers during holidays, while contractors often don't care. This creates a situation where you need to provide for removal and short term storage. There were times when containers would be everywhere. This didn't work for me or the tenant, so he moved on, amicably to his own site (more money). I agree that when you get going they are all out, but you need to have a drop site.

Costs - some costs are pretty high, and some businesses are slow to react. Even if you did this venture, as others pointed out, do the numbers work? While on the trip I ordered a heavy duty 30 yard can with 12" o.c. crossmembers, 1/4" floor, and gusseted sides (small flat stock 4" from front to rear at a 45 degree angle along each bottom and side) to prevent dirt build up when dumping. Cost - +/- $5500. Steel has been on a steady rise in price for a while now. I bet by 2009, add 12%-15%. A couple of my bigger cans are double picks in case we use our previous tenant's truck, or get into a bigger hook lift. Some of the small cans are also double pick, in case someone puts more than 4 or 5 tons into a 10 yard hook lift can. This adds cost too.


I just left Ocala, FL visiting my in-laws - there are some pretty long drive distances down there at 6-8 mpg. But, there are some other opportunities I saw, such as hauling mulch, compost, machines, etc. Our roll-off has a stinger so the bodies can be 19.5' long and dump like a dump truck rather than have that long tail which prohibits a full dump. The other advantage of the stinger is that you can extend it to pick something up, like a flatbed, without having the steep angle of a hook-lift or a regular roll-off. We move tractors, mini-excavators, etc. on the flatbed. Versatility is key here, but your deal sounds like a basic truck and 33 basic cans.


Maybe getting into the business yourself is better than jumping in to someone's failure.

Good luck.

[Gravel Rat]

The price of steel is going up I bought some steel for a dumping flatdeck the material to get the deck to 3/4s finished cost me 1800 dollars I figure I will have to spend another 200 dollars for some more steel plate. This is for a 8'x 11.5 foot flatdeck using structural steel. I seen a add for rolloff bins manufactured in B.C. designed for hooklift I think they were 20 yard bins for 6500 each. I can't imagine what a 40 yard bin would be worth I guess they would be atleast 12 grand each.

The biggest factor why I never went further with my idea of buying a rolloff truck is the disposal regs at the landfills is too strict. You can't take a bin load of mixed debris into the landfills. Say you do a house demo or reno a house you can't mix the materials. Wood has to be separated the drywall has to be separated etc. Even the duroids on a roof have to be stripped off any of the wood. If you have a cedar shake/shingle roof with tar paper inbettween the rows the tar paper has to be separated from the wood.

It is cheaper for contractors to pay a labourer to burn the debris on the site 8 hours a day and haul way what ever doesn't burn.

People cleaning up their basements can't throw everything into one bin it has to be separated. Only things that can't be ground up or recycled is buried. Wood debris is ground up for hog fuel the drywall is recycled the scrap steel is recycled. Cardboard is recycled any clean paper has to be separated out.

On a construction site you can get a good hot fire going you can burn all the wood scraps etc. It can save the homeowner atleast 500 dollars.

For me the rolloff would be more for convienience so I could have a bush box for hauling branches and debris. One for hauling dirt and a rolloff flatbed that would be used most of the time.

Tandem axle rolloff trucks in this area now are mainly hauling scrap metal.

[FLAhaulboy]

I see you live in Pace and I'm not sure what the competition is like in Santa Rosa but in Escambia County, The competition seems to be pretty tight. If their renting them out "regularly", I sure dont see why they wouldnt be showing you some paperwork proving it in order to justify their asking price.

[sloppyjoe]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. This may have been a good venture a few years ago....With the competition, regulations & cost of fuel, etc I would probably just loose allot of money & generate a lot of frustration.

[MarcSmith]

now if you can get into the scrap metal side of things.....you make money on the haul, plus you make money when you dump your load. as scrap metal is the highest its been in the last ten years.

on average we get about $500 from each 30 yard roll off we take to the recyclers.

On a side note, with the rolloffs, you could also get into light hauling of materials, LIke mulch, and such.....

[Gravel Rat]

Scrap metal market is good right now because China can't get enough of it. Scrap cars (auto hulks) is at a all time high. Scrap dealers in B.C. are paying 150-200 a ton. Back east it is close to 250 a ton.

New steel to buy is about 1000 dollars a ton I was told by the suppliers I buy from said buy now the price will climb higher.

[MarcSmith]

GU had a couple of cars that they could not sell...junkyard wanted to give us 100 bucks each. our scrap dealer gave us 250 each, all we had to do was drain the fluids and put it in the dumpster... that we haul our scrap metal in...

[Gravel Rat]

The scrap dealers in B.C. will take it with fluilds and all they want the cars so bad. It was never like that years ago. Areas like mine every old vehical that isn't being used is hauled away. Which is good its cleaning up the junk in peoples back yards. It was expensive to get rid of a used car that didn't run now guys will come and get it for free.

[MarcSmith]

we have a 7 bay bus garage so draining the fluids is not a big deal and that way we know we are doing are part...

Yeah junk cars are big business juts for the scrap metal now....

[Kepple Services]

I just took a ford explorer to the scrap yard yesterday. $10 per 100lbs... got $368 for 1 hours worth of work. I paid $50 for the truck.

The people at the yard love my truck also, its a grapple truck. I can pick the cars and trucks up with the grapple and put them in the bed, then when its time to unload I can stack the vehicle on another for them without the help of a loader. I am in an out in less time than it takes many of the pickup trucks to unload the filecabinets, bikes and everything else they bring in.

[Sunscaper]

Right now my friend rent his can for the following prices and has trouble renting them.

12 yard $250
15 yard $275
20 yard $300

anything over 30 days gets charged an additioal $1.50 per day. He pays $200 per month to store his un used cans roughly 8 at any given time. With thatbeing said alot of the large guys here are going under due to large overhead. He will be in a good position when the market comes back. Hope this helps you a little.

[AWJ Services]

I just took a ford explorer to the scrap yard yesterday. $10 per 100lbs

The convertors bring about 100 dollars off that car with foreign car convertors bring around 200 a peice.
The wheels will get you about 15 dollars a peice extra as well.

[MarcSmith]

when i did my driveway last summer , I got 2 30 yrd cans total charge was 750 bucks....that included rental, tipping fees, and hauling charges

total tonnage was 25....

[Kepple Services]

The convertors bring about 100 dollars off that car with foreign car convertors bring around 200 a peice.
The wheels will get you about 15 dollars a peice extra as well.

Who said I left the converter on the truck? :) I also took the wheels off, as they charge for tires left on the vehicles. They where aluminum wheels, and me and a friend stockpile wheels for a few months then go turn them in. The last time we did a large haul we had 11,600lbs of steel and 1200 lbs of aluminum and stainless. got about the same amount of money for both loads.

[AWJ Services]

The scrap buisness is good.

I have a friend with a machine shop(auto engines) and he had 10k pounds of engine parts laying out back as well as a large amount of cast aluminum.
He calls me up and tells me that some guy gave him 40 bucks for it and he was proud too have it gone and get money for it.
I just laughed.
I had told him 10 times previous I would haul it and split the cash with him.
It is amazing how much you can get doing this in your spare time.
I have about 15 junk cars saved up too scrap.I will take a day or 2 and scrap them out and start collecting again.

[Albemarle Lawn]

We do, about 65 of em, and a truck.

How would you like to spend $12,000 a month on fuel?

[Itsgottobegreen]

A very good friend of mine has a Rolloff/demo business. Its a lot more of a headace than its worth. He has 10 rolloff and 2 hook trucks. Along with about 400 cans or so. People beat the crap out of your cans. I know, because I weld for him on the side when we are slow. If you have 33 cans figure on trashing at least 2 of them each year. Then repairing another 10 or so. He has own transfer station. Each can gets dumped, sorted and then loaded on to his walking floor or another can. A lot of transfer stations or dumps won't take a lot of stuff in roll offs. Plus the dumping fee for a rolloff truck is greater than like a trash truck.