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View Full Version : Crabgrass Prevention In New England


JoeKidd
04-16-2008, 09:27 PM
I work at a cemetery on the seacoast of New Hampshire and my boss had us put down a crabgrass preventor this week. The temps here are still hovering around the upper 30s -low 40s over night and are just now hitting 60+ during the day. I feel its way to early to be dropping this stuff and I'd like some opinions from some of you pro's. We also have a lot of seeding to do and from what I've read, now we'll have to wait at least four to six weeks to do so. Any help would be appreciated.

Also one of the trustees of this cemetery owns the local Agway where we buy our turf products. He's been having us put down lime-rite in the spring and fall for about seven years in this place. I say this is overkill but supposivly he went out and tested the soil last week with something he stuck in the ground and said it still needs it. Is this a joke or what?

Whitey4
04-16-2008, 10:02 PM
I work at a cemetery on the seacoast of New Hampshire and my boss had us put down a crabgrass preventor this week. The temps here are still hovering around the upper 30s -low 40s over night and are just now hitting 60+ during the day. I feel its way to early to be dropping this stuff and I'd like some opinions from some of you pro's. We also have a lot of seeding to do and from what I've read, now we'll have to wait at least four to six weeks to do so. Any help would be appreciated.

Also one of the trustees of this cemetery owns the local Agway where we buy our turf products. He's been having us put down lime-rite in the spring and fall for about seven years in this place. I say this is overkill but supposivly he went out and tested the soil last week with something he stuck in the ground and said it still needs it. Is this a joke or what?

In ground soil pH testers CAN be "ballpark" reliable, but they cost like $400. Is the soil there typically very acidic? The app rate makes a big difference... if he is just applying lime for the billing, then he'd be putting down less than 25 lbs/k. More like 10 lbs/k, if he was just ripping them off.

Up north where you are, pre-M for crabgrass is most likely a bit early, but it depends on what he put down. If it was Barricade, and he plans to over seed in the fall, it's not too early. If it was pendi or Dimension, too early, but soil temp is king.... crabgrass starts germinating at a soil temp of 55. You will have to wait at least 3 months for any seeding of treated areas.... and that might be too early, unless he used siduron (Tupersan) which is highly unlikely.

So.... the Agway owner is a trustee.... and how big is this cemetary? If it's a few acres, those lime apps are big bucks. Go figure.... if it smells like ****, it probably is.

RigglePLC
04-16-2008, 10:11 PM
You need to have a real soil test--be sure.

Time is OK for crabgrass control. You should have it down before temp hits 80--my opinion. Scotts Turfbuilder plus Halts suggests "between second and fifth mowing". Also before soil temp reaches 55 degrees. Or ideally the same week the dandelions bloom. Also about at 500 Growing Degree Days.

Al these ideas will give you slightly different results of course.

RigglePLC
04-16-2008, 10:16 PM
You need to have a real soil test--be sure.

Time is OK for crabgrass control. You should have it down before temp hits 80--my opinion. Scotts Turfbuilder plus Halts suggests "between second and fifth mowing". Also before soil temp reaches 55 degrees. Or ideally the same week the dandelions bloom. Also about at 500 Growing Degree Days.

All these ideas will give you slightly different results of course.

To view GDD and crabgrass recommendations for Michigan and nearby states visit
GDDtracker.net

click "Crabgrass pre"

Here in Michigan in my area we have 250 Gdd accumulated.

National soil temp maps are available somewhere.

RigglePLC
04-16-2008, 10:23 PM
Whitey is right. NH has seacoast?
Ok here is the soil temperature map for the whole country--I hope you guys are not colorblind. LOL.
http://www.greencastonline.com/SoilTempMaps.aspx

Looks like in NH you are between 40 and 45. Here in Mich my actual measurement today was 45. But the ocean makes you a little warmer--or am I wrong?

Whitey4
04-16-2008, 10:37 PM
Whitey is right. NH has seacoast?
Ok here is the soil temperature map for the whole country--I hope you guys are not colorblind. LOL.
http://www.greencastonline.com/SoilTempMaps.aspx

Looks like in NH you are between 40 and 45. Here in Mich my actual measurement today was 45. But the ocean makes you a little warmer--or am I wrong?

NH is land-locked. One of the most under rated states in the union.... that is a beautiful state. Like Vermont, but a wee bit milder in the winter. NH has the best fall foliage in the 48 contiguous states.

Nice link Riggs. Soil temps in my neck of the woods has been all over the place. Up to 58, back down to 49, and then back up to 55. I applied last Thursday. Some of my new customers were freaking, seeing the Scotts' 1 step lawns going ballistic with top growth.... hard to educate them. So far, I have only mowed the one Tru-Green customer I have (twice) and those with dogs, until today. Most of my accounts are full service. Just one freakin Tru_Green in the lot, but the price i have to pay until next year.

This cemetary thing sounds like a cash cow to me.... but what do I know?

Correction.... yeah, it sure does have a foot on the Atlantic, and I've actually been to Glouchester.... so call that a brain fart. One of the prettiest old fashioned NE fishing ports there is. A working fishing port that looks like it's out on 1820.... and some tourist suff like whale watching boats.

Whitey4
04-16-2008, 10:50 PM
Whoops, double post!

JoeKidd
04-17-2008, 01:00 AM
In ground soil pH testers CAN be "ballpark" reliable, but they cost like $400. Is the soil there typically very acidic? The app rate makes a big difference... if he is just applying lime for the billing, then he'd be putting down less than 25 lbs/k. More like 10 lbs/k, if he was just ripping them off.

Up north where you are, pre-M for crabgrass is most likely a bit early, but it depends on what he put down. If it was Barricade, and he plans to over seed in the fall, it's not too early. If it was pendi or Dimension, too early, but soil temp is king.... crabgrass starts germinating at a soil temp of 55. You will have to wait at least 3 months for any seeding of treated areas.... and that might be too early, unless he used siduron (Tupersan) which is highly unlikely.

So.... the Agway owner is a trustee.... and how big is this cemetary? If it's a few acres, those lime apps are big bucks. Go figure.... if it smells like ****, it probably is.

I'm telling you this place is a horror show. This cemetery is huge, I forget how many acres but it's over ten for sure. We get two full pallets of lime twice a year. Theirs no way the soil is acidic with all this **** going down every year. I think you hit the nail on the head, it's definatly a cash cow for this guy and my boss is a moron who should be bagging groceries somewhere. I'm just about ready to make some waves and start calling these guys out and take it over myself and get some real results. For the money these people put into this place it should look like Augusta national golf course. I'll give you some more details tomorrow.

tremor
04-17-2008, 01:28 AM
Joe,

Get a soil test done for free at your local cooperative extension. Leave a copy laying around to be discovered. Don't use your real name/address.

Perennial Ryegrass should grow even in the crabgrass treated areas especially if you drop extra seed.

The treatment was made earlier than ideal for where you are.

humble1
04-18-2008, 10:12 PM
way early for crabgrass control in NH, still snow on the ground inland, 28-30 deg the other night. Are there alot of pines where you are? What town?

JoeKidd
04-19-2008, 06:10 PM
Yeah I knew it was a bit early. The stuff we used was by Lebanon Turf...26-3-8. It said it contained Team, SCU, Benefou, and Trifluralia( Not sure I got the spellings right on those).

I thought this stuff basicly pollutes the soil so anything not established has very little chance of germinating including perennial rye. On the bag it said seeding should be delayed at least 8 weeks after application and if longer if layed down heavy.

The place is actually 22 acres (I forgot about the unused fields down below). We have a couple of pines near the center and a whole line of them on the perimeter towards the back. I'd say only about 10% of the turf is affected by these pines.

Could the lime being layed down every season not be getting down in the soil and doing its job properly? They never aerate the place and I think it desperately needs it, maybe even a dethatching job too. The turf isn't very drought resistant either.