Can anyone tell me what i need to do in order to hire someone legally.

[bigw]

I am considering hiring someone even if only part time, what all do i need to do to make it legal? I am a sole propioter and am getting to the point i may need some help soon,or should i say would like some help.How would i do pay roll taxes and etc..etc...I just landed 5 more lawns this weekend and still have estimates out their. Most of my lawns are 1/2 acre or better so my days are getting longer and longer so im considering hiring someone soon! ANY other sole props ever hire anyone?

[ALC-GregH]

work your A$$ off first. This way all the income is yours.

5 new accounts in a weekend? Man you must $hit golden eggs. LOL

[J.A.G LAWNCARE]

I am considering hiring someone even if only part time, what all do i need to do to make it legal? I am a sole propioter and am getting to the point i may need some help soon,or should i say would like some help.How would i do pay roll taxes and etc..etc...I just landed 5 more lawns this weekend and still have estimates out their. Most of my lawns are 1/2 acre or better so my days are getting longer and longer so im considering hiring someone soon! ANY other sole props ever hire anyone?

I TOLD YOU the grass still is not growing and wait till we get 2 days of rain ,the fun has just started......your legs will be green till Dec.. Good luck and dont BITE OFF MORE THEN YOU CAN MOW....Find good help fast:usflag:

[bigw]

Thanks guys but now can someone answer my original question please...lol

[bruno_rs]

I TOLD YOU the grass still is not growing and wait till we get 2 days of rain ,the fun has just started......your legs will be green till Dec.. Good luck and dont BITE OFF MORE THEN YOU CAN MOW....Find good help fast:usflag:

hey jag, i agree completely and commented in bigs' other post.

big if you're listening... cool out with lining up TOO much work. i know this is not "rocket science" BUT having little and/or no experience running a lco there's a lot to learn before you go hiring others to work for you. in your situation, it's kind of a double edge sword... either you get someone with experience who can and/or will make you look (or feel) like you don't know what you're doing or someone with less experience and you'll end up paying them to be "babysat"! don't mess it up you got the sole proprietor formula... brand new, beautiful, top of the line equipment... get out there YOURSELF and DO IT!

just by looking at the equipment you posted, i shouldn't have to tell you, there's a lot of (your) $ at stake here! hiring others to tear up, abuse and destroy your investment... not one of your better ideas!!! get your feet wet before you go jumping into dangerous waters. if you bite off more than you can chew, you're gonna put yourself in a very precarious position. it's not a good game plan to sprint right out of the gate of a 25k run. always keep in mind it's not how much you make BUT what you keep!!! just my .02... good luck.

[LawnTamer]

I would also be leery of hiring so early, but if you need to, here's what you do.
1) Change your business from a Sole Proprietor to a S-corp. Put yourself on payroll for a reasonable amount and take the rest of your profits as owner dividends. A good accountant is vital. Ask around and find one who has a good reputation. They will help you a lot. It may cost you some, but it will save you 3X what it costs.
2) Use a payroll service. Once you are established and you have been doing this for a while, you may want to take over payroll, but right now your plate is full enough and will be fuller when you hire someone. The payroll service will also help you set up things like Worker's Comp and unemployment taxes and accounts where you can store your quarterly tax payments. It is different in each state, but you need someone to help you figure it out.
Good luck.

[bigw]

hey jag, i agree completely and commented in bigs' other post.

big if you're listening... cool out with lining up TOO much work. i know this is not "rocket science" BUT having little and/or no experience running a lco there's a lot to learn before you go hiring others to work for you. in your situation, it's kind of a double edge sword... either you get someone with experience who can and/or will make you look (or feel) like you don't know what you're doing or someone with less experience and you'll end up paying them to be "babysat"! don't mess it up you got the sole proprietor formula... brand new, beautiful, top of the line equipment... get out there YOURSELF and DO IT!

just by looking at the equipment you posted, i shouldn't have to tell you, there's a lot of (your) $ at stake here! hiring others to tear up, abuse and destroy your investment... not one of your better ideas!!! get your feet wet before you go jumping into dangerous waters. if you bite off more than you can chew, you're gonna put yourself in a very precarious position. it's not a good game plan to sprint right out of the gate of a 25k run. always keep in mind it's not how much you make BUT what you keep!!! just my .02... good luck.

I understand but i am not about to turn down work either,i did not get into this to be complacent or to settle with a certain amount of jobs. The way the economy is right now i think id be a fool to turn down any accounts i can get my hands on.
I am no dummy and have expierence with running a buisness and managing other people.I would only hire someone i know i can trust and am not worried about them making me look bad.I see just on here how tough people are finding it to find new accounts so i aint about to turn down accounts,i appreciate and understand what you are saying but i think ill take my chances on building my business.
I got into this business with the dream of growing and even though its coming faster then expected im not about to change my buisness plan, i dont know too many compaines that got big by turning down work.

Trust me if i ever sensed i made the wrong decision by hiring someone or by getting to overwelmed i would simply cut back and go it alone again but i must atleast try to grow my buisness even if some may disagree. I also know that if i can run my buisness without turning down work and actually have to hire people that i will actually make more money as a whole.
If i can cut down the time it takes to mow my lawns and pay 10-12$ hr to someone i can also take on many more lawns,a local LCO and a big one around me told me if i am hiring i am making more money and he is proof of that with hundreds of employees and yes he started out about 5 yrs ago as a sole prop! Anyway i do understand what you are saying and i will take all your advice to mind but right now i just cant say no to a potential customer!!!

[bigw]

I would also be leery of hiring so early, but if you need to, here's what you do.
1) Change your business from a Sole Proprietor to a S-corp. Put yourself on payroll for a reasonable amount and take the rest of your profits as owner dividends. A good accountant is vital. Ask around and find one who has a good reputation. They will help you a lot. It may cost you some, but it will save you 3X what it costs.
2) Use a payroll service. Once you are established and you have been doing this for a while, you may want to take over payroll, but right now your plate is full enough and will be fuller when you hire someone. The payroll service will also help you set up things like Worker's Comp and unemployment taxes and accounts where you can store your quarterly tax payments. It is different in each state, but you need someone to help you figure it out.
Good luck.

Hey thanks buddy an answer to my question. I do already have a very good accountant that deals with many lawn and landscape companies. What is the benifits of becoming an S-CORP?

[bruno_rs]

I understand but i am not about to turn down work either,i did not get into this to be complacent or to settle with a certain amount of jobs. The way the economy is right now i think id be a fool to turn down any accounts i can get my hands on.
I am no dummy and have expierence with running a buisness and managing other people.I would only hire someone i know i can trust and am not worried about them making me look bad.I see just on here how tough people are finding it to find new accounts so i aint about to turn down accounts,i appreciate and understand what you are saying but i think ill take my chances on building my business.
I got into this business with the dream of growing and even though its coming faster then expected im not about to change my buisness plan, i dont know too many compaines that got big by turning down work.

Trust me if i ever sensed i made the wrong decision by hiring someone or by getting to overwelmed i would simply cut back and go it alone again but i must atleast try to grow my buisness even if some may disagree. I also know that if i can run my buisness without turning down work and actually have to hire people that i will actually make more money as a whole.
If i can cut down the time it takes to mow my lawns and pay 10-12$ hr to someone i can also take on many more lawns,a local LCO and a big one around me told me if i am hiring i am making more money and he is proof of that with hundreds of employees and yes he started out about 5 yrs ago as a sole prop! Anyway i do understand what you are saying and i will take all your advice to mind but right now i just cant say no to a potential customer!!!

hey big, only YOU know what best for you! i appreciate your take no prisoners attitude but keep in mind... if you grow too fast and/or are more concerned with growth potential it may end up "costing" you in the end. regarding your friend who started out 5 years ago as a sole prop.... what works for one may not work for another. my ADVICE is merely intended to make you "aware" of possible pitfalls you may face.

growing too fast brings to (my) mind one of the best sub shops, i've ever been to. this kid had it all... great location, good employees, kick A$$ following, great food and fair prices. after 2 years he opened another store and 6 months after that, a 3rd. what happened?... everything went wrong! with him dividing up his time between 3 locations employees became lacky, quality was in the toilet, customer base dried up and he was running around like a chicken with it's head cut off desperately trying to regain his reputation and/or some sanity. less than 6 months after opening his 3rd store he had to close the doors on ALL of them. now he's back to cartering out of his van... right back to "his" starting line.

my point... be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. with "big" comes big headaches and/or responsibilities. gotta do what ya gotta do! again, good luck. have a good one.

[HOOLIE]

Pretty much, you just have to make sure the employee is legal to work in the US, and make sure you pay him the 'legit' way, with a real payroll check, so the proper taxes are taken care of.

That's really it, as far as things you HAVE to do.

Search for the I-9 form on irs.gov, it'll show you how to make sure your guy is legit.

[Paulup]

Pay some high school kid 8 or 9 bucks an hour cash to run the line trimmer and edger along side you. If he is screwing around or messing up you'll be right there to correct it. Otherwise, going the full legit route, you'll need to square it away with the IRS, THIS (http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=98164,00.html) should get you moving in the right direction.

[lawnman_scott]

Pretty much, you just have to make sure the employee is legal to work in the US, and make sure you pay him the 'legit' way, with a real payroll check, so the proper taxes are taken care of.

That's really it, as far as things you HAVE to do.

Search for the I-9 form on irs.gov, it'll show you how to make sure your guy is legit.and get publication 15. It shows you on a table what to withhgold for federal tax, shows how to calcutate ss&medicare tax (you must know how to multiply or use a calculator to do this), and it also tells you what simple forms must be filled out and when. 4 times per year you have to fill out forms and deposit withholdings. It is very simple.

[LawnTamer]

Hey thanks buddy an answer to my question. I do already have a very good accountant that deals with many lawn and landscape companies. What is the benifits of becoming an S-CORP?

As a sole proprietor, you will likely use a schedule C to show profit/loss from your business, you will then have to pay taxes on all profits, same as you would on wages from a job. You will pay both sides of FICA, the 7.65% as an employee and the matching 7.65% as an employer. That is 15.3% taken before any tax deductions.... it is huge. If you will be having an employee, and doing payroll, you may as well put yourself on too, limit the amount that shows as pay and thus limit your exposure to SS tax.
Here's an example;
Say you clear $80K as a sole proprietor you will pay $12,240 in FICA in addition to other taxes. Now as a S-corp you can pay yourself say $40k in salary, take the rest in owner dividends and you will only pay $6,120 in FICA, you will still pay income tax on the other $40k, but hey, you just saved over $6k in taxes. It is not cheating, you need to talk to your accountant about it, and find realistically how much money you are making from your labor, and how much you are earning because of your investment in your business. I know guys who make $90k and only take $18-20K in salary/wages. I am not quite comfy with that, but they may have a different business model. In my case I keep track of how many hrs I work and pay myself a reasonable salary, consistent with what I would pay a foreman/manager to do what I do. I take that in salary and the rest in dividends.

When we switched from a Proprietorship to a S-corp it reduced our tax burden by about $4k, there is also more protection as a corp and you are allowed an annual corporate retreat.
Talk to your accountant, talk to several. 10 accountants will find 10 different ways to do taxes for the same guy and come out with 10 different amounts, all or most of them would be legal, your job is to find one that fits your model and will take the time to point out things you can do to protect your income and limit tax liability.
I will warn that there are crooked accountants. I have a friend who used a shady accountant and wasn't paying a dime in taxes, while earning nearly $100k, he would always go on and on about how his accountant was the best and how all his tax shelters were legit, yada yada.... Till he got audited. :cry:

Find out how your accountant's clients have fared when they have been audited.:waving:

[customcurbdesigns]

If hes part time, just get his info, pay him a check and send him a 1099 at the end of the year...then hes responsible for his own taxes...

[SNAPPER MAN]

Bigw. the easiest thing for you to do would be to pay the guy weekly and then just give him a 1099 at the end of the year making him in charge of his own taxes.

[Whitey4]

In NY, if you hire someone, you MUST have workman's comp insurance. Here, that is a big nut. Even for a part timer, my insurance bill would triple.

[lawnman_scott]

If hes part time, just get his info, pay him a check and send him a 1099 at the end of the year...then hes responsible for his own taxes...
I think the guy was asking what he had to do to "legally" hire someone.

[LawnTamer]

I think the guy was asking what he had to do to "legally" hire someone.

Dang straight! If you are 1099ing someone you better be dang sure they are a licensed sub-contractor with their own equipment, vehicles and their own schedule.

[Az Gardener]

The simplest thing to do is go to a payroll service like Paychex or ADP. Put yourself on too, it will keep you out of trouble with the IRS. Set yourself a reasonable salary and run it like a real business. They handle everything and it is dirt cheap! cost includes the Workman's comp and everything. I avg. between 7-10 paychecks per week and the cost for the service is about 230 per month. They do quarterlies and everything. If you run into a cash flow problem you can just hold your check or adjust your salary. It has been the best thing I have done for the biz easy-easy-easy I can't say it enough, hire a service.

[Frue]

Your accountant will easily set this up and you call your insurance to get workman comp.
If you pay someone 8 dollars a hour you are really paying them 10-11 with taxes and insurance.

Now just a note not trying to bring you down but a employee will suck all your cash up every week they take money from your business. Tread lightly my friend you are very new to this and you early moves will dictate your longevity in it. Too much is just as bad as not enough.

Your best bet would be to get the fert going strong then hire. When I was running a fert company we were turning a 100 an hour with push spreaders, then we added ride ons and it went to 145 an hour. Now your mowing is probably getting you maybe 35-50 an hour. Here in Pa spring has not fully swang in yet and when it does you can add a extra hour to everyday from the times you are getting now.

Not trying to bring you down but I have been in your shoes before. You get alot of work and you make these split decisions then winters here and your employee is collecting unemployment and your wandering what happend to all the money you had. With five months off. God bless my friend and stack some cash.

[bigw]

quote --Now just a note not trying to bring you down but a employee will suck all your cash up every week they take money from your business.

I dont understand what you mean by this? I mean of course i will have to pay an employee but i will also be able to pick up many more lawns with an employee right??
I mean if i can hire someone and take on say 20, say $40 lawns thats $800 more a week and if i pay my employee say 8$ hr he earns $320 on a 40 hr week and even with taxes and ins im still ahead of the game aint I ?

You make it sound like hiring someone is like giving my money away,i am not looking to hire someone and stay status quote { how ever you spell that word lol } I am looking to hire so i can grow my business. Like i said i didnt get into this to just take 40-50 lawns and stop. I have a 5 yr plan and the plan will never come to life if i am afraid to hire my first employee.

The good thing about me hiring someone is I am the boss and if i feel it wasnt in my best intrest i can fire someone just as fast as hire them. Anyway maybe you can explain yourself better because i am not getting your quote up top! Also what taxes are you talking about that i would have to pay for an employee...just curious thanks!!

[customcurbdesigns]

Dang straight! If you are 1099ing someone you better be dang sure they are a licensed sub-contractor with their own equipment, vehicles and their own schedule.

Your so far off base its not even funny....but I wont get into the argument..

they dont have to be licensed to be get a 1099...

[customcurbdesigns]

quote --Now just a note not trying to bring you down but a employee will suck all your cash up every week they take money from your business.

I dont understand what you mean by this? I mean of course i will have to pay an employee but i will also be able to pick up many more lawns with an employee right??
I mean if i can hire someone and take on say 20, say $40 lawns thats $800 more a week and if i pay my employee say 8$ hr he earns $320 on a 40 hr week and even with taxes and ins im still ahead of the game aint I ?

You make it sound like hiring someone is like giving my money away,i am not looking to hire someone and stay status quote { how ever you spell that word lol } I am looking to hire so i can grow my business. Like i said i didnt get into this to just take 40-50 lawns and stop. I have a 5 yr plan and the plan will never come to life if i am afraid to hire my first employee.

The good thing about me hiring someone is I am the boss and if i feel it wasnt in my best intrest i can fire someone just as fast as hire them. Anyway maybe you can explain yourself better because i am not getting your quote up top! Also what taxes are you talking about that i would have to pay for an employee...just curious thanks!!

Your company has to match a certain portion of the taxes that your employee has taken out of his check...Thats what they are referring too.. So it costs the business money as well as the employee.

Lets say you pay him 500 a week, his take home would be like 350 or so maybe more. Then your company also will prolly have to pay about 65.00 in taxes as well...so in reality it cost you 565 to pay him 500 a week.

[Turfrific]

tell them there self employed, to pay there own taxes. then that way anything that happens is on them, or you could try a temporary service.

[J.A.G LAWNCARE]

Dang straight! If you are 1099ing someone you better be dang sure they are a licensed sub-contractor with their own equipment, vehicles and their own schedule.

you can not 1099 someone in this line of work , they ride with you you are the boss, and they use your stuff.

[Frue]

quote --Now just a note not trying to bring you down but a employee will suck all your cash up every week they take money from your business.

I dont understand what you mean by this? I mean of course i will have to pay an employee but i will also be able to pick up many more lawns with an employee right??
I mean if i can hire someone and take on say 20, say $40 lawns thats $800 more a week and if i pay my employee say 8$ hr he earns $320 on a 40 hr week and even with taxes and ins im still ahead of the game aint I ?

You make it sound like hiring someone is like giving my money away,i am not looking to hire someone and stay status quote { how ever you spell that word lol } I am looking to hire so i can grow my business. Like i said i didnt get into this to just take 40-50 lawns and stop. I have a 5 yr plan and the plan will never come to life if i am afraid to hire my first employee.

The good thing about me hiring someone is I am the boss and if i feel it wasnt in my best intrest i can fire someone just as fast as hire them. Anyway maybe you can explain yourself better because i am not getting your quote up top! Also what taxes are you talking about that i would have to pay for an employee...just curious thanks!!

Bigw now there is nothing wrong with your thinking except, employee will not make you 50% more efficient. See you would need 2 60 zero turns to get the kind of production you are thinking. The second problem is no one will work for that cheap 8.00 minium of 10.00. good luck bud

[lawnman_scott]

tell them there self employed, to pay there own taxes. then that way anything that happens is on them, or you could try a temporary service.Did you think, or just start typing?

[bigw]

Bigw now there is nothing wrong with your thinking except, employee will not make you 50% more efficient. See you would need 2 60 zero turns to get the kind of production you are thinking. The second problem is no one will work for that cheap 8.00 minium of 10.00. good luck bud

I dont need an extra ztr but if i did think i could benifit from one id buy one, just having someone to help trim and edge while i mow would be a help dont you agree? I never said an empoyee would make me 50% more efficient but it sure would allow me to take more of these jobs that i could be lining up if i had the help.Do you have any employees ?

[Frue]

Did you think, or just start typing?

Must not know that the Irs requirs that the 1099eeee have his own customers also. See if he only works for you he is legally your employee.

Bigw you are doing the right thing go legit

[LawnTamer]

I really like some of the advice given so far, as usual, some people have spouted silly nonsense, but there has been good advice. I really like the idea of going with Paychx or ADP, wish I had done that when I first took on employees. It would have eliminated a lot of stress.

As far as increasing productivity, it does. Your situation is different than mine, as far as your average lawn size. For us, one man usually can do about $450/day, two guys can do about $700-750. So even though productivity does go up, it doesn't quite double. So far as costs, you have workers comp, unemployment ins. and you have to match FICA, your part of that is 7.65%, I also like to throw in little extras for the employees, I buy them lunch, or snacks sometimes, they really appreciate it, and good employees are hard to find. A $10/hr employee will cost us about $12/hr. Don't know your job market there, but here we start full timers at $10-11/hr. We occasionally use high schoolers part time, they start at $8/hr.
Good luck.

[Frue]

I dont need an extra ztr but if i did think i could benifit from one id buy one, just having someone to help trim and edge while i mow would be a help dont you agree? I never said an empoyee would make me 50% more efficient but it sure would allow me to take more of these jobs that i could be lining up if i had the help.Do you have any employees ?

Just triming and blowing no way. To go from 400 a day to 700 you def need a second Z or a large walk behind. Lets say its 10 an hour, its really 12 so about 480 a week. If you go with adp its like 30-40 per employee per check.

I think you need to hire but a young business needs to get a handle on cost. You may know your cost but if you dont know and you pay out 3520 a month in pay roll and you bring in 8000 that cuts you down 4820 to mke the bills for the business.

I have been through what you are you are sales are coming in you are on fire.
Then the phone stop ringing about may 5th you have already hired and then you find out by aug you dont have enough saved for winter.

What I would do is see what you need for winter, shut down the phone, get very efficient with your equipment, learn the trade (straight lines striping and such) then hire and grow grow grow.

[Frue]

I really like some of the advice given so far, as usual, some people have spouted silly nonsense, but there has been good advice. I really like the idea of going with Paychx or ADP, wish I had done that when I first took on employees. It would have eliminated a lot of stress.

As far as increasing productivity, it does. Your situation is different than mine, as far as your average lawn size. For us, one man usually can do about $450/day, two guys can do about $700-750. So even though productivity does go up, it doesn't quite double. So far as costs, you have workers comp, unemployment ins. and you have to match FICA, your part of that is 7.65%, I also like to throw in little extras for the employees, I buy them lunch, or snacks sometimes, they really appreciate it, and good employees are hard to find. A $10/hr employee will cost us about $12/hr. Don't know your job market there, but here we start full timers at $10-11/hr. We occasionally use high schoolers part time, they start at $8/hr.
Good luck.

our minium wage is 7.15 an hour. I am pretty sure you would need 2 Z to pull 700 a day here. I guy trimming and blowing is not going to work those numbers unless you are doing apt complexes all day.

[LawnTamer]

our minium wage is 7.15 an hour. I am pretty sure you would need 2 Z to pull 700 a day here. I guy trimming and blowing is not going to work those numbers unless you are doing apt complexes all day.

You would know better, as your lawns are likely much more like BigW's. Here our avg. lawn is about 5,500 sq ft and we don't even have a Z, just two 36" WBs and a 21 for areas inaccessible to the 36" Toros. I know BigW has a Q36, I wonder if an employee couldn't trim, edge, and perhaps do smaller front or back pieces with the Q36? I don't know, I guess it depends on avg lawn size.

[F Y P M]

I used to spin my wheels with 65 accts and 1 full time helper with 1 truck and trailer 1 Z, 1 36, 1 small mower and weed wackers etc. If we got rain for a whole day we were behind the rest of the week which then meant my odd jobs hedges, fert, mulch, top soil,etc suffered. I decided to double everything and take a chance best thing ever. In my area there is plenty of lco's but also plenty of work, I also am planning on diversifying into installs.

[TLS]

BigW,

Stay solo. At least a full season, maybe two.....heck....maybe forever!

If you need help in a crunch, hire a BIL or family member to "help" you on weekends just to see if you can realize the benefit of an employee.

I see too many failed attempts at armchair management in this business. If your going into this business with a HUGE 5 year plan to have multiple crews, etc....your likely going to fail. I've seen it many times over the years.

Stay small. Get efficient. Heck you cant even have routes planned out yet (I sure dont...not this early). Work on getting neighboring lawns (next door neighbors to your current jobs), take some good ones, let go of some bad ones.

Then you showed interest in your applicators license....DO THAT! The money you can make on applications will blow your mind.

This winter get some plowing contracts (work on this NOW!), if your impressed with the money you can make from mowing and doing applications, you'll be floored at what your able to take in plowing/salting.



There is SO much more you can be doing before you need to hire.


And as for turning down customers....I've been doing that for 20 years.

[LawnTamer]

BigW,

Stay solo. At least a full season, maybe two.....heck....maybe forever!

If you need help in a crunch, hire a BIL or family member to "help" you on weekends just to see if you can realize the benefit of an employee.

I see too many failed attempts at armchair management in this business. If your going into this business with a HUGE 5 year plan to have multiple crews, etc....your likely going to fail. I've seen it many times over the years.

Stay small. Get efficient. Heck you cant even have routes planned out yet (I sure dont...not this early). Work on getting neighboring lawns (next door neighbors to your current jobs), take some good ones, let go of some bad ones.

Then you showed interest in your applicators license....DO THAT! The money you can make on applications will blow your mind.

This winter get some plowing contracts (work on this NOW!), if your impressed with the money you can make from mowing and doing applications, you'll be floored at what your able to take in plowing/salting.



There is SO much more you can be doing before you need to hire.


And as for turning down customers....I've been doing that for 20 years.

Lots of good advice there. I can make more money by myself, doing apps than mowing with 2 helpers. Plowing here is way underbid, about everybody and their dog seems to have a plow.

[bigw]

BigW,

Stay solo. At least a full season, maybe two.....heck....maybe forever!

If you need help in a crunch, hire a BIL or family member to "help" you on weekends just to see if you can realize the benefit of an employee.

I see too many failed attempts at armchair management in this business. If your going into this business with a HUGE 5 year plan to have multiple crews, etc....your likely going to fail. I've seen it many times over the years.

Stay small. Get efficient. Heck you cant even have routes planned out yet (I sure dont...not this early). Work on getting neighboring lawns (next door neighbors to your current jobs), take some good ones, let go of some bad ones.

Then you showed interest in your applicators license....DO THAT! The money you can make on applications will blow your mind.

This winter get some plowing contracts (work on this NOW!), if your impressed with the money you can make from mowing and doing applications, you'll be floored at what your able to take in plowing/salting.



There is SO much more you can be doing before you need to hire.


And as for turning down customers....I've been doing that for 20 years.

already have my applicators license and already plow and have 18 accounts for plowing. Problem around here lately is we havent gotten any snow to plow!!
I am still undecided as what to do yet but i think a helper would help me alot. See i dont have these postage stamp lawns like alot of the guys on here do, I have lawns over a 1/2 acre and quite a few over 2 acres.

I am mowing 5 days a week 8-6 and unless i take on some help i am going to have to start turning work down because i dont know how id get to much more with out working 12 hr days and i do not want to start doing that!

I am already going to be in a jam if it rains {which its suppose to do tomorrow} i mean how do you guys make up for the accounts you didnt get too because of the rain?
Do you add a few to each day or what do you do? See if i had help we could get alot more done...i dont know but i hope ill figure it out soon!!

[ed2hess]

Go get the helper immediately and get on with it........

[Frue]

already have my applicators license and already plow and have 18 accounts for plowing. Problem around here lately is we havent gotten any snow to plow!!
I am still undecided as what to do yet but i think a helper would help me alot. See i dont have these postage stamp lawns like alot of the guys on here do, I have lawns over a 1/2 acre and quite a few over 2 acres.

I am mowing 5 days a week 8-6 and unless i take on some help i am going to have to start turning work down because i dont know how id get to much more with out working 12 hr days and i do not want to start doing that!

I am already going to be in a jam if it rains {which its suppose to do tomorrow} i mean how do you guys make up for the accounts you didnt get too because of the rain?
Do you add a few to each day or what do you do? See if i had help we could get alot more done...i dont know but i hope ill figure it out soon!!

Well rain is a kicker you need it to work but it will put a damper on things. Here is what I do.
1. My motto is its not raining till your wet. Never go by what the weather says NEVER
2. Go out as soon as it quits getting something done everyday is important.
3. I turn my days into 11 houra a day from 8-9 hour days for a few days and usually it gets done.
4. If it is a full blown rain out sharpen blades and get all your office work done in order to devote total attention to getting caught up.
5. Have a make up day only mow 5 days with the 6 being make up day.

[Frue]

BigW,

Stay solo. At least a full season, maybe two.....heck....maybe forever!

If you need help in a crunch, hire a BIL or family member to "help" you on weekends just to see if you can realize the benefit of an employee.

I see too many failed attempts at armchair management in this business. If your going into this business with a HUGE 5 year plan to have multiple crews, etc....your likely going to fail. I've seen it many times over the years.

Stay small. Get efficient. Heck you cant even have routes planned out yet (I sure dont...not this early). Work on getting neighboring lawns (next door neighbors to your current jobs), take some good ones, let go of some bad ones.

Then you showed interest in your applicators license....DO THAT! The money you can make on applications will blow your mind.

This winter get some plowing contracts (work on this NOW!), if your impressed with the money you can make from mowing and doing applications, you'll be floored at what your able to take in plowing/salting.



There is SO much more you can be doing before you need to hire.


And as for turning down customers....I've been doing that for 20 years.

Sometimes I read post and realize there are some who know whats going on and this is def one of them.....

[TLS]

Sometimes I read post and realize there are some who know whats going on and this is def one of them.....

I'll take that as a compliment. Thank You.


10hr days won't cut it in the Spring. While I have pared down a lot in recent years (anticipatory to deal with applications), when I was in my hey-days, 12 and 14hr days weren't uncommon. Always 6, sometimes 7 days a week. All this and still holding my P/T Grocery store job.

We are in for a treat after this rain on Monday BigW. Lawns will be muddy, Fert will be kicking in, and growth will surge.

Bad snow years usually mean great salt years. I plowed a few times this past season, but salted each event. Not a big year by any stretch, but I still cleared 8K with one truck.


What does all this mean....???

Hunker down and get it done....solo. No one you'll ever hire will work as good, fast, or as long as you. You will likely get disappointed, and if they would leave you (quit) your WAY deeper in trouble than you are now.

If you can make it through May, you'll be clear sailing the rest of the season. Don't ever be afraid to turn down work. Customers appreciate your honesty when you tell them your plate is full and taking on any more would compromise your high level of quality.

Good luck!

[whoopassonthebluegrass]

Stay solo. At least a full season, maybe two.....heck....maybe forever!

I'm solo, so I know where you're coming from. But don't y'all ever think that's a HUGE risk to take? What if I break a leg or ankle? What if I get sick? What if some other fool crashes into my truck and lays me out?

Then, with the whole biz riding on my shoulders only... it'll crash...

I don't mean to hijack here, but how do you guys address this risk?

[Frue]

get a walking cast

[TLS]

I don't mean to hijack here, but how do you guys address this risk?

A F L I A C !

[IndyChad]

Big W,
I usually have something smarta** to say to you, but for once I am going to be straight with you.

My second year in business I signed a big commercial contract that was well over 6-figures. Of course after selling this you are on top of the world, but remember the second year in business and the first was just solo. All of a sudden you have to get a significant amount of employees to maintain the properties. You have to add the equipment to maintain the property and you signed the contract on March 23rd. We were already a month behind before we signed the contract. We spent the next 3-months just getting down the systems that it takes to maintain properties of this magnitude. We went through about 10 different employees that year and we started out at $10.00/hr. Everyone was good for the first two weeks, then the heat of the summer took its toll on the workers. All that said at the end of the year our profit margin for these properties were horrible.:cry: The education that we learned from these properties was priceless. I have also had a lot of management experience and a degree in Business, but it is a totally different lesson in itself. I will not tell you to turn down business, because that is still really hard for me to do also, but just be careful because you can grow too fast. How fast is too fast? That is up to you to decide. I do commend you on having an aggressive business plan, but 12-hour days are almost required at first to build a good foundation. Check out irs.gov because it is a great resource for some of your questions. Good luck

[Frue]

Big W,
I usually have something smarta** to say to you, but for once I am going to be straight with you.

My second year in business I signed a big commercial contract that was well over 6-figures. Of course after selling this you are on top of the world, but remember the second year in business and the first was just solo. All of a sudden you have to get a significant amount of employees to maintain the properties. You have to add the equipment to maintain the property and you signed the contract on March 23rd. We were already a month behind before we signed the contract. We spent the next 3-months just getting down the systems that it takes to maintain properties of this magnitude. We went through about 10 different employees that year and we started out at $10.00/hr. Everyone was good for the first two weeks, then the heat of the summer took its toll on the workers. All that said at the end of the year our profit margin for these properties were horrible.:cry: The education that we learned from these properties was priceless. I have also had a lot of management experience and a degree in Business, but it is a totally different lesson in itself. I will not tell you to turn down business, because that is still really hard for me to do also, but just be careful because you can grow too fast. How fast is too fast? That is up to you to decide. I do commend you on having an aggressive business plan, but 12-hour days are almost required at first to build a good foundation. Check out irs.gov because it is a great resource for some of your questions. Good luck

great info in this post also. I think this is a very informative thread.

[J.A.G LAWNCARE]

12 hour days in the spring = 8 hour days in the summer but 12 hour days in spring = a mess in the fall with the leaves you have a plan for that BIG W most part time workers are in school when needed most .........................