Rider Productivity Question

[GrassRoots Lawn Care]

I currently maintain 49 accounts in a tight service area (7-8 mile radius) and growing FAST (4-5 new accounts weekly with a nice Yellow Pages ad coming out in Aug). I have my eye on some ZTR Riders. Considering Toro, Scag and of course, Choppers. We currently run a 32&quot; belt on smaller yards, and a 48&quot; hrydro with sulke on about 55% of the accounts. We have enough new business that I can drop the smaller gated accounts where the rider will not fit.<p>My question is this: How much time will the ZTR rider shave off my daily routes? Like I said I will drop any and all accounts where the ZTR won't fit and maintain about 80-90 accounts. Our mixture of accounts runs about 30% commercial/70% residential. We do about 15-16 accounts/day with one 2 man crew. I'm asking to get an idea about the increased productivity of a 48&quot; ZTR Rider vs. 48&quot; hydro WB w/ sulke. We will need to keep the rider to 48&quot;, our properties aren't that big. Also, we will take turns trimming and riding to reduce fatigue and further increase productivity, how much will this factor in? Thanks in advance.<p>----------<br>Mike Reynolds,<br>GrassRoots Lawn Care, Florida

[Richard Martin]

Mike,<p> Lets break out the old &quot;Acres Per Hour&quot; chart and see. A 48&quot; WB at 6 mph (generally the top speed of WBs)/80% efficiency can mow around 2.33 acres of grass per hour. A Exmark/Toro 48 ZTR can mow 3.10 acres per hour at 8 mph (top speed)/80%. A Dixie Chopper 50&quot; can mow around 4.25 acres per hour at 10 mph (top speed)/80%. The 2 main variables here are purchase price of machines and a specific machines ability to cut grass at top speed. Since you already have a 48&quot; WB you know the limitations of your specific machine. Your next step is test mowing some ZTRs. And when you do it don't just test them on those nicely manicured lawns you do every week, take the machines out and try them on some of those nasty, weed infested, hard to cut lawns that always seem to take 2 passes to cut. <br>

[lawrence stone]

I think if would be a waste of time to buy a<br>48&quot; ztr. I would add a sulky to your 32&quot; machine. A 48&quot; fixed deck belt drive (toro, lesco, eXmark your pick) with a stand on sulky is great for flatland and dry mowing conditions of FLA.<p>You don't need a ZTR unless you can buy one with a 60&quot;+ mowing deck.

[lawnforce1]

I am really wanting to buy a ZTR but am afraid to &quot;pull the trigger.&quot; Would it really be a waste to buy one with less than a 60 inch deck? I am really looking at a 52.

[Hardy Enterprises]

Hey Mike I would have to agree with stone on this one. The 48&quot; ZTR would be more comfortable to run but would not increase productivity much over the 48&quot; hydro with a sulky. I have a 48&quot; hydro with a sulkly that I used for about a year then I bought a Lazer Z EPS with the 72&quot; deck this year. On large industrial properties that took a couple of hour to mow with the walkbehind there was large increse in productivity. However, on small properties that only took 15 to 30 minutes to mow with the walkbehind the 72&quot; Z only shaved a few minutes off of the walkbehind times. When compraring the 48&quot; Z to the 48&quot; walkbehind the only increse your going to get is from ground speed. From my exprience on my properties the terrain won't let run much faster on the Z than the walkbehind. I the suspension seat on my Lazer which makes a difference but would still be taking a beating if I ran it wide open in a lot of places that I mow. As far the productivity charts go I have been using a stop watch to keep up with productivity time for about two years now. I have found that for me on everything from walkbehinds, ZTR, to tractors with 15' batwing bushhogs that acutual efficiency comes to be about 65% rather than the sales industries 80%. Hope this helps.<p>Jay

[gene gls]

Hey Mike: The only way you can increase your productivity with a ZTR is to buy a rear discharge unit such as a Walker or Hustler upper cut so you can trim cut on either side of the deck and not wast extra time to avoid throwing clippings where you don't want them.I run a Walker 48&quot; GHS unit.I just bought a 62&quot; deck for it to use on large open areas. I have been expermenting for the last two weeks.I can mow most of my smaller properties,8000 to20,000 sq.ft., faster with the 48&quot; collection deck than the 62&quot;side discharge because I don't waste time worrying about the clippings going into the beds or on the house and cars.<p>I also get a laugh out of the production times listed by equipment manufactures. I would like to personaly watch some of these unites in testing.Brand A mower can mow 2 1/2 acres per hour,brand B can due 3 acres per hour. Maybe they are all tested in the South where the frost doesn't effect the flatness of the ground.I think most are advertized 50% better than they can really do.<p>Just my $.02

[Hardy Enterprises]

Hey Gene I live in the deep south with very little cold weather and most are still rough. I live in a hilly area and I think most properties have some minor erosion that takes place before grass gets established. What ever it is I have not found many properties that I can physically endure cutting at 8-10 mph.<p>Jay

[lawnnut]

Demo one or rent one for a couple of days and see for yourself.<br>My son can ride a sulky and cut with any rider. <br>I cut faster with the rider. I like the field of vision setting right on top of the deck instead of behind it.<br>On real hot days with high humidity a rider won't tire the op out as bad.<p>Try one and see<br>

[bob]

When I went from a 48&quot; walk behind to a 61&quot; rider, my productivity doubled. But there was something else I didn't count on. I wasn't tired at the end of the day.

[Grasscape Inc]

Get a 2000 model John Deere Ztrack

[MOW ED]

Interesting post as I have been experimenting with this also. I have a Walker 42&quot;GHS with a 26EFI and the speed up kit (it also has the no-catch deflector so I can discharge out the back), I also have a Toro Proline 44&quot; Hydro with a Proslide. <br>I have a set of 4 adjoining properties. Before I got the new Walker I used the Toro and it took me aprox. 3 1/2 hours to mow, trim and blow. The Walker had me in and out in a about 2 3/4. I was much happier and less thirsty when I was done and tomorrow I'll feel the same way when I'm sitting.<p>The Toro is great for the hills and when its wet so my advise to you is get both.<p>Gene, I was considering buying a 54&quot; deck but your post has got me thinking to research this more. Thanks.<p><p><font size="1">Edited by: MOW ED

[Eric ELM]

Grassroots: We have 3 adjoining lawns that add up to 7.5 acres and we cut that with 2 Choppers in 50 minutes. As Gene mentioned about the clippings in flower beds, there is another option other than rear discharge. The DC's have the OCDC (Operator Controlled Discharge Chute) to keep clippings from going in flower beds in tight areas. A 60&quot; deck is what I have on my machines and I find I can mow about any lawn with them. For small areas around swimming pools, we use the 21&quot; and only carry it 1 day a week. You will increase production big time with a 60&quot; ZTR. Demo them all and see which one you like. I like the longevity of the DC's. :)<p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://pages.prodigy.net/eric.erickson/&quot;&gt;Eric@ELM&lt;/a&gt;<br>

[Parrot]

i think 2 48 or 52 inch wbs would more productive for the money, hydros that is, no belts. midmounts seem to be alot of hype unless you have alot of relatively flat yards. i dont know, maybe 1 of each woud be all right if you can justify the 3 or 4 thousand dollar difference over the same size wb. i work alone so i dont want to have to have 2 mowers.

[Mowman]

Mike, I've been putting off buying a rider and just yesterday I rented a Walker with a 54&quot; deck. To my surprise I did not even have to get the 21&quot; off the trailer, just used the trimmer. I was afraid to buy a mower that big but now after yesterday I wouldn't buy anything smaller. You will be suprised where you can get, at least with the Walker I tried out. I will be buying a Walker in the near future. Good luck. Mowman

[gene gls]

Parrot: If you are going to be in the lawn biss you NEED two of every thing that you use on a daily basis.Demo some compact riders just for ha ha's to see how much faster they are compared to wb.Start saving because you will fall in love with one in a hurry.

[gene gls]

Parrot: If you are going to be in the lawn biz you NEED two of every thing that you use on a daily basis.Demo some compact riders just for ha ha's to see how much faster they are compared to wb.Start saving because you will fall in love with one in a hurry.

[Parrot]

why would one person need two mowers? why would i spend an additional 6 to 8 grand on a rider that saves me about 10 to 15 minutes on about half of my yards and wouldnt even come off the trailer on the other half? I have demoed choppers, hoppers, lazers, & procuts. They're just not practical for a one man show with very diverse terrain to maintain, unless you're just fat and cant stand up for long. A wb can cut anything, a midmount cant, no rider can. I have owned or demoed them all, just about, in the last 9 years, and thats what i have learned.

[Richard Martin]

&quot;I&quot; have 2 mowers! A new Exmark 36 that I bought in March of this year and a Gravely 50&quot; that I will be replacing next year with either a Exmark 60&quot; or Dixie Chopper 60&quot;. I use the 36 for gated yards and smaller yards. My Gravely 50 would cut the majority of my smaller yards but I feel as though the 36 makes the yards look better and larger. Also my 50 Gravely has difficuty in cutting anything but prime mowing conditions. I use the 50 for larger yards 1/2 acre and up.

[Eric ELM]

It's always nice to have an extra mower as a back up, even for minor breakdowns just to finish a job up. A back up is nice to have too if you need extra help for a day or so if you get behind. Been there - done that. <p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://elmlawnsite.com/&quot;&gt;Eric@ELM&lt;/a&gt;<br>

[GREENSCAPE]

If I were to buy a new zrt I would get the <br>jonh deere f680 60in with the 7-iron deck<br>it would be the last ztr you would have to buy for long time. Just take a look at one.<br>Kind of pricey, but damm productive. I demo'ed one the other day againest my my brother-in-laws 61&quot; GreatDane I smoked him.<br>And I know they (GD) are one of the most productive mowers on the market by far.<br>JUST IN CASE SOMEONE ASK, BOTH HAD ABOUT THE <br>SAME HOURS ON THEM. (Appple to apple.)<br> I would also like to mention we were mowing bahiagrass and the deere didn't leave any of those stobs if you know what I'm talking about.

[lawnsurfer]

IMO your productivity will increase not only from the mower change but, the lack of fatigue. I recently demoed a standon mower. I didn't break any speed records getting done. It might have saved me about 5 to 10 min. on the lawns that I used it,BUT, I felt a lot less tired when I got home. I think it is worth paying the extra money. I would look at the standers. They are close to the production of the riders, but a 1000 less in price. I demoed in Florida too. I would rather have my knees take the shock than my back, plus it is more comfortable then a WB becaus you are leaning against a pad, not balancing all day on a velke or slide.