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View Full Version : Toro commercial TV5002 This one has me nuts!


action13
04-27-2008, 10:23 PM
Toro 2 cycle, TV5002, Proline engine, 122cc, Toro model # 22040, serial number# 8906747, Engine Family VSK122u121RA

Mower starts and runs ok, seems to stay running just fine, to test it I mower my front yard with it , maybe 45 minutes. Then after you shut it down, and go back to it 5 minutes later won't start. I have been through the carb top to bottom, complete rebuild including 45 minutes in my ultrasonic tank. New NGK plug, has a big blue spark and it jumps a 1/4 gap. This ones got me good. And yes have inspected the flywheel key. Assuming the compression is just fine or it wouldn't run at all. Have also checked for restricted muffler, intake and exhaust ports ect...Anyone had a problem like this with a 2 stroke Toro, with a Suzuki engine before?...Keep in mind I am a small engine mechanic and all the basic elementary things have been checked, and rechecked..Tom

Restrorob
04-28-2008, 12:03 AM
Assuming the compression is just fine or it wouldn't run at all......all the basic elementary things have been checked, and rechecked.

Well Tom,

How about a compression test ?

Will it re-start hot with a shot of carb spray cleaner ?

Breezmister
04-28-2008, 12:38 AM
Toro 2 cycle, TV5002, Proline engine, 122cc, Toro model # 22040, serial number# 8906747, Engine Family VSK122u121RA
Mower starts and runs ok, seems to stay running just fine, to test it I mower my front yard with it , maybe 45 minutes. Then after you shut it down, and go back to it 5 minutes later won't start.

Looks like you have covered all the things I would have looked at...But did you check to see if the fuel tank is properly vented ? A easy check would be to run the mower for a while, then shut it off and put your ear down near the fuel cap and slowly open it, if you hear a hiss, then the tank is not venting correctly
Also, does this engine have reeds like the old Jake Commercials ? Have you looked at them ?

. New NGK plug, has a big blue spark and it jumps a 1/4 gap. This ones got me good.


This may sound strange, but some plugs work better then others in some machines. Stihls seem to run and start better with a Bosch plug then with Champion or NGK

Keep in mind I am a small engine mechanic and all the basic elementary things have been checked, and rechecked..Tom

There are times you have to walk away for a while, and you know the old saying, you can't see the woods because of the trees. Have some one else look at the mower and throw some ideas at you while you check them. We all have brain farts and I have my share of them :laugh:
Here is a link to another thread that might be of some help

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=35289&page=2

Good luck

action13
04-28-2008, 10:23 AM
Thanks for the replys. Ok, First, the compression is adequate, or it wouldn't run as well when it's cold. Second, I can't tell you how many times I have walked away from it to regroup, and rethink it out. Third, it has been checked in the last 2 weeks by 3 Toro dealers (each time the customer picked it up he was told it was fixed) but wasn't. Forth, I have tried 3 different brand plugs (Champion, NGK, Bosch). Fifth, It won't fire on starting fluid when hot. Sixth, it has no reed valves, has ports. Seventh, the venting of the tank is fine, was one of my first check points. See what I mean, this defies the laws of engines. This morning I will preform a few more checks on it including a coil test when it's hot, I think just maybe the spark could be weaker when hot, and fooling me into thinking it's ok. ..I'll never be able to recover my time spent on this mower, but now it's a all out war with it, and turned into a challenge....grrrrrrrrr.....Driving me NUTS!.........Tom The Mower Shop

carlsmower
04-28-2008, 12:14 PM
Did you do a compresion test?

S DIAMOND
04-28-2008, 05:48 PM
Fifth, It won't fire on starting fluid when hot. Sixth, it has no reed valves, has ports.

Assuming you don't have a compression problem (which would be a symptom if the following is true) and it is not suffering from an intermediate spark problem when it gets warm, I would suggest doing a pressure and vacuum test.
Bottom line is, this is a 2-cycle engine, even though it is larger, it has to meet the same requirements to run, and that is crankcase integrity. If the seals are allowing air to enter the crankcase or flywheel side under the compression or intake stroke, then you know its going to lean out the mixture making it hard to restart.
For that matter, I'm sure you replaced all the mounting gaskets (carburetor and muffler), and examined the carburetor insulator before you remounted it?:)

If you are satisfied with all of the previous things you have done, then that's the next thing to check. The test will reveal any defects (regardless how small) including the slim chance of a porous casting.

I would use a spark plug type tester and plug the intake and exhaust ports. Place piston at B.D.C. break out the mity-vac hand pump, and test with soapy water.

Good hunting. :)

F Y P M
04-28-2008, 06:08 PM
I've had this happen to my mower same engine and my problem was coil.

Breezmister
04-28-2008, 08:30 PM
This morning I will preform a few more checks on it including a coil test when it's hot, I think just maybe the spark could be weaker when hot, and fooling me into thinking it's ok. ..

Yea, been there, had trimmer do that to me two years ago. Great blue spark even when hot......:hammerhead:

rjxj
04-28-2008, 09:59 PM
Are all the fuel lines good? Many times there are very small cracks in the black rubber hoses. Happens all the time on saws and trimmers. I just replaced a coil on a Stihl backpack. It would start and run good. Wouldnt restart or wold have to pull it a zillion times. New coil and it would start with half a pull. THEN its bring out the big guns as Diamond says. The crankcase is often overlooked on two strokes. It is a vital part of the system. It can make it run poorly and destroy an engine.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=219890&highlight=rjxj

carlsmower
04-29-2008, 12:38 AM
Seriously, Did you do a compression test? Compression drops when a engine warms up. It may be at 120psi cold but could drop to 100 psi after a couple minutes of running. Anything less that 105 psi will cause hard starting. It will run fine once its running but I guess I dont need to tell you this since you are "A small engine mechanic"

action13
04-29-2008, 10:27 AM
Seriously, Did you do a compression test? Compression drops when a engine warms up. It may be at 120psi cold but could drop to 100 psi after a couple minutes of running. Anything less that 105 psi will cause hard starting. It will run fine once its running but I guess I dont need to tell you this since you are "A small engine mechanic"

Pulled a hot compression test and got 80psi........

mowermankevin
04-29-2008, 11:13 AM
Pulled a hot compression test and got 80psi........

80 psi is getting near the bottom for a 2 cycle to run, the previous posts about seal leakage somewhere in the block would be where to look. When it is running try spraying carb cleaner around the carb intake area and see if it dies, contrary to most posts I've read carb cleaner (Wal-mart) brand will kill any running engine it is sucked in. The vaccum,pressure tester was posted a while back with a simple tool (home built) that was pretty clever and worked, try typing in the back post and see what comes up. I think your just damn lucky to still have a Suzuki still running, there getting to be antiques, but still the best engine to weight that ever went on a Toro.

carlsmower
04-29-2008, 11:45 AM
Service Manual clearly states that any thing below 92 psi will require piston, rings and cylinder inspection. Im not to good at math but Im pretty sure 80psi is quite a bit lower than 92

lawnboy dan
04-29-2008, 06:36 PM
your rings are toast.

action13
04-29-2008, 07:44 PM
Did a compression test, shows 80psi...........Tom