Ford 7.3L Diesel questions

[genesis215]

I have several questions about the Ford 7.3L diesel engines. Is the Powerstroke more reliable than the IDI? Are repairs more costly on the Powerstroke, and less expensive on the IDI? Which engine lasts longer? Which one gets the best fuel mileage? What is your experience with the fuel mileage of these two engines? Does a turbo increase fuel mileage, or decrease it? Have any of you gotten over 20 mpg with either engine?

[JRS Landscaping]

go with the powerstoke it is less maintaince and more powerful and reliable. i havent seen more than 15mpg in my powerstroke and its 2wd

[TXNSLighting]

powerstrokes alot better, but the idi's are easier to work on. alot simpler engines.

[jkilov]

go with the powerstoke it is less maintaince and more powerful and reliable.

I'm sorry for the long post but just can't help myself.
Used to be one BIG diesel fan, not any more, oh no, no sir.

If you buy a modern diesel these days you are guaranteed to be riped-off, abused and force-fed with big repair bills for components that just don't last. It's not a problem of diesel concept, but rather of the car industry's hunger for your cash and the high-tech components are a great excuse for presenting big bills. So what are these components:

#1 : Dual-mass flywheel <- Never buy a truck with this thing. It's designed to reduce engine torque pulses and therefore protect the transmission, so the excuse. Some powerstrokes have it and it's supplied by Luk. Once you start reading Luk's docum. on the DMF you find out it reduces pulses by max 9% (well thank you) and can even amplify these under certain conditions. The real problem with the DMF is that it "wears" all the time. As it eventually starts breaking apart, gets out of center, wobbles and destroys your clutch. You will be left with a lovely $800+ bill for the flywheel alone + clutch + plate + release bearing + labor = $1250 fast. This can occur as soon as 50k miles. A DMF failure is 100% guaranteed sooner or later. If you own a truck with a DMF, some can be replaced with a solid flywheel + special clutch kit and your troubles are over.

#2 : Turbocharger : Treat with respect. Don't rev when cold and NEVER do a "heat soak", always allow the turbo to cool down for 2min after heavy loads. Do this or miss an oil change and the turbo will stick, leaving you with a lovely ....... Some turbos can be overhauled, which can save you a buck.

#3 fuel pump, injectors and fuel pipes: On modern diesels the fuel pump works at very high pressure. One tank of really bad fuel and the pump or injectors can fail. Fuel pipes can start to leak without reason. You will be (unpleasantly) surprised with repair costs for such small components.


So basically, you spent more money on a modern diesel expecting savings in return. Mmmmmmm ......... yeah right. There are other disadvantages as well :
- harder to repair
- hard starting, specially in cold weather, will sound like the whole world is going under.
- less power and not rev happy.
- longer warm up time
- truck is even more nose heavy.
- more noise (except modern diesels)
- lame acceleration (except modern diesels)
- NOx exhaust emission are known to cause cancer and blood/heart related diseases
- Soot emissions or partical matter as they are caled are known to cause asthma and other respiratory disjunctions. I'm not saying gasoline exhaust is good for your health, but it's not anywhere near the healt hazard diesel exhaust is.
- anemic engine brake, expect faster brake wear.
- you are paying the same price or more for a gallon of unrefined, untreated fuel, that used to cost 1/2 the price of gasoline. The oil companies simply love you.


OK, let's not forget to mention the good stuff about diesels, after all they put them on locomotives, tractors, bulldozers and stuff :

- more torque at certain revs.
- more mpg's, but it's not a straightforward comparison as diesel fuel has higher density.
- last longer
- harder to overheat
- use much less fuel at idle and low loads.
- sometimes longer exhaust life


Now I'm no self-proclaimed diesel expert. What I wrote here was gained from experience (and frustration) by owning modern diesels. I wish I knew all this before.... I lost a pile of ca$h and not to mention a lot of nerves. DON'T LEARN THIS THE HARD WAY LIKE I DID.

Stay away from modern diesels. Buy cheap and you'll be happy. It's just my experience and a non-professional opinion. I'm not saying everyone will have all the problems I did, so please don't shower this post and turn it into a bashing arena. I'm not bashing diesel, ford or any one else and it's a quiet day!

[tnmtn]

i can't say much about the powerstrokes but do have an idi 7.3. mine has 250,000 miles and runs fine. i use it for hydroseeding and towing lighter loads. i have been very impressed with this truck. i get 17 mpg when light, in town or on the road doesn't matter. i could probably do a little better if i tried. mine has the 5 speed manual. i think this is important if you go the idi route. they are not powerhouses but do work very hard without complaint. repairs are not expensive at all. i wouldn't hesitate to go with an idi again. in my opinion whether to go idi or powerstoke would have to be based on the weight of the loads you haul and how hilly it is where you live and work.
good luck,

[stroker51]

I've got an IDI and two powerstrokes. My 96 'stroke has 210K and I run it everyday, that truck is really my business. Pulls the mowers all summer, carries the 200 gallon sprayer, pushes snow and hauls the salt hopper all winter. I personally will never own another IDI, simply because, at least the one I have, won't touch my 'strokes for power, and I have done more repairs to the IDI in one year of ownership than I have in over 3 years on my 96. I have gotten, on 3 separate tanks, 22 mpg with my 96, extended cab 4x4 5 speed, my buddy had an identical IDI with Banks sidewinder turbo kit and it wouldn't do any better than 15 mpg. I usually average 13 pulling my 18' flatbed loaded with mowers. There are a lot of people who swear by the IDI's, I'm just not one of them, nor do I personally know any of them. For $350 you can put an edge evolution on a 7.3 and have a truck that will pull way more than it reasonably should. The other thing with an IDI, the absolute newest one you will find will be an early 94 model, and unless it's been sitting in a garage it's whole life will be showing it's age more than likely for a truck that old. They're both good choices, but like I said I prefer the powerstrokes hands down.

[TXNSLighting]

new or "modern" diesel are fine. not sure what that guys talkin about.. i couldnt read it all (a.d.d)

[mag360]

A realistic comparison between the two would be that of a carbed gasser versus a fuel injected gasser. Carb is cheaper to buy and keep running (or replace) but fuel injected will squeeze out a couple mpg's and have more useable power.

I'd take the IDI for a mowing rig and the powerstroke for hauling a skid, tractor, dump trailer, etc.

Good luck.

[thecollector]

Drive both and it will be easy to decide which one you want. It all comes down to how much you have to spend. Try www.thedieselstop.com for more info.

[mybowtie]

I'm sorry for the long post but just can't help myself.
Used to be one BIG diesel fan, not any more, oh no, no sir.

If you buy a modern diesel these days you are guaranteed to be riped-off, abused and force-fed with big repair bills for components that just don't last. It's not a problem of diesel concept, but rather of the car industry's hunger for your cash and the high-tech components are a great excuse for presenting big bills. So what are these components:

#1 : Dual-mass flywheel <- Never buy a truck with this thing. It's designed to reduce engine torque pulses and therefore protect the transmission, so the excuse. Some powerstrokes have it and it's supplied by Luk. Once you start reading Luk's docum. on the DMF you find out it reduces pulses by max 9% (well thank you) and can even amplify these under certain conditions. The real problem with the DMF is that it "wears" all the time. As it eventually starts breaking apart, gets out of center, wobbles and destroys your clutch. You will be left with a lovely $800+ bill for the flywheel alone + clutch + plate + release bearing + labor = $1250 fast. This can occur as soon as 50k miles. A DMF failure is 100% guaranteed sooner or later. If you own a truck with a DMF, some can be replaced with a solid flywheel + special clutch kit and your troubles are over.

#2 : Turbocharger : Treat with respect. Don't rev when cold and NEVER do a "heat soak", always allow the turbo to cool down for 2min after heavy loads. Do this or miss an oil change and the turbo will stick, leaving you with a lovely ....... Some turbos can be overhauled, which can save you a buck.

#3 fuel pump, injectors and fuel pipes: On modern diesels the fuel pump works at very high pressure. One tank of really bad fuel and the pump or injectors can fail. Fuel pipes can start to leak without reason. You will be (unpleasantly) surprised with repair costs for such small components.


So basically, you spent more money on a modern diesel expecting savings in return. Mmmmmmm ......... yeah right. There are other disadvantages as well :
- harder to repair
- hard starting, specially in cold weather, will sound like the whole world is going under.
- less power and not rev happy.
- longer warm up time
- truck is even more nose heavy.
- more noise (except modern diesels)
- lame acceleration (except modern diesels)
- NOx exhaust emission are known to cause cancer and blood/heart related diseases
- Soot emissions or partical matter as they are caled are known to cause asthma and other respiratory disjunctions. I'm not saying gasoline exhaust is good for your health, but it's not anywhere near the healt hazard diesel exhaust is.
- anemic engine brake, expect faster brake wear.
- you are paying the same price or more for a gallon of unrefined, untreated fuel, that used to cost 1/2 the price of gasoline. The oil companies simply love you.


OK, let's not forget to mention the good stuff about diesels, after all they put them on locomotives, tractors, bulldozers and stuff :

- more torque at certain revs.
- more mpg's, but it's not a straightforward comparison as diesel fuel has higher density.
- last longer
- harder to overheat
- use much less fuel at idle and low loads.
- sometimes longer exhaust life


Now I'm no self-proclaimed diesel expert. What I wrote here was gained from experience (and frustration) by owning modern diesels. I wish I knew all this before.... I lost a pile of ca$h and not to mention a lot of nerves. DON'T LEARN THIS THE HARD WAY LIKE I DID.

Stay away from modern diesels. Buy cheap and you'll be happy. It's just my experience and a non-professional opinion. I'm not saying everyone will have all the problems I did, so please don't shower this post and turn it into a bashing arena. I'm not bashing diesel, ford or any one else and it's a quiet day!

Wow...first he says diesels have less power, then he says they have more torque. Which is it??? With 50K on the od, everything should have been covered under warty.

As far as the 7.3, it the best motor ford had. Look for a manual tranny, might be hard to find one. If your gonna tow heavy loads, get the diesel.

Ive got a 07 dmax, and get 14-16 towing 4000 lbs around town. Friends has same truck, but a gasser, and gets 11-12 towing same weight. I get 420 miles+ per tank(30 gal). With the 6.0 gasser it would cost me $10 less to go the same miles. Small price to pay for more power/torque..:usflag:

7.3 is the best diesel ford had.

[nosparkplugs]

I'm sure their are many satisfied 7.3L Powerstroke owners; however it was not my first choice for a diesel. My ex business partner is a die hard Ford Diesel truck guy. He convinced me on a 02 F-350 Dually 7.3L crew cab, and everything was ok until the truck hit 45,000 miles, first the transmission went; come to find out their is a faulty "sprag" gear, and depending on the driving habits & loads may fail early. Then two cam position sensors, #7 #5 fuel injectors had intermediant firing problems, dead batteries too early, found out Powerstrokes are very sensitive to weak batteries. Also the maintenance on the Powerstroke or V8 diesel is expensive, finally the HEUI injectors uses engine oil to pressurize the diesel fuel to 25,000bar to fire off the injector; which requires a non-foaming diesel oil, and many diesel owners were not utilizing the correct oils, at one point Ford Motorcraft oil was causing the 'foaming" problem.

[mower&more1986]

I decide to bring back some videos for this thread
http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=mowerandmore1986
to be honest it just depends on what you need.
but at the time i didnt needed alot of power just wanted a simple diesel
too be really honest I miss this old truck. live and learn.

[genesis215]

Another question would be if the IDI is really all that undependable compared to the powerstroke. I really don't care about power of the engine at all, so that isn't important. All I want to know is whether these engines are more dependable in comparision to a gas engine enough to make it worthwhile to buy one. The only reason in my case to buy a diesel is to get better fuel mileage. Are the repairs and maitenance on a diesel expensive enough to eat up all of your savings on fuel? Just wondering.

[jkilov]

Wow...first he says diesels have less power, then he says they have more torque. Which is it??? .

TRITON V10 , V8 TURBO DIESEL
Horsepower (hp @ rpm) 362 @ 4750 , 350 @ 3000*
Torque (lbs.-ft. @ rpm) 457 @ 3250 , 650 @ 2000*

With 50K on the od, everything should have been covered under warty. .
It was'nt that easy. First the dealership claimed that the DMF is considered a "wear" part and is not covered by warranty of any means. After that they started claiming driver error, that in some way my driving habits ruined the flywheel. It took more than a week to get this sorted (don't want to talk about details) and had to get a rental to keep business going. On the newer models the flywheel has to be changed at each clutch job.


Ive got a 07 dmax, and get 14-16 towing 4000 lbs around town. Friends has same truck, but a gasser, and gets 11-12 towing same weight.
I'm not sure about those numbers, but could well be. No doubt diesels are on advance with today's fuel prices.

Takes time to repay for a $1300 tubro (new, rebuild go for $900) ,injectors go for $250+/piece and so on..... and these are all prices from independent shops. Add that to the extra $6000 for the engine option if you're buying new.

If the IDI gets similar MPG why not go with that. IDI parts are much cheaper.


I'm sure their are many satisfied 7.3L Powerstroke owners

I totally agree. Guess I'm one of the few ones that got unlucky, just can't help my frustration. Wish everybody more luck than I had.

Changed back to a gas-guzzler and hopefully won't regret it.

[vadeere]

A realistic comparison between the two would be that of a carbed gasser versus a fuel injected gasser. Carb is cheaper to buy and keep running (or replace) but fuel injected will squeeze out a couple mpg's and have more useable power.

I'd take the IDI for a mowing rig and the powerstroke for hauling a skid, tractor, dump trailer, etc.

Good luck.

That is an awesome comparison. Exactly right in my opinion. Both are good trucks and you will be happy until you get that pump nozzle stuck up your ... with the price of diesel these days.

[Mike Leary]

you will be happy until you get that pump nozzle stuck up your ... with the price of diesel these days.

I think you miss the point, a diesel will last forever, with proper care.
Our Isuzu/Turbo Airstream just hit 200K, burns no oil, replaced turbo once,
injectors & rack were looked at, valves adjusted..15 mpg. My feeling about
diesels is they like to be at the same rpm; which is why mine has done so
well....hours and hours @3200 rpm. If you're chucking around town, start &
stop, cool down, heat up...I would not spend the money on a diesel; the line
up here is, " might as well buy a boat when you buy a diesel pick up,
so you can power the boat after the truck body rusts out."

[casey humphrey]

power stroke all the way!!!! i just wish that ford would install a diesel in a ford ranger for the small guy like me!!! one day i will get a ford stroke!!!

[AWJ Services]

I actually was a factory trained tech employed by a dealer when the Powerstroke came out.
There is alot of misinformation being posted.

The Dual mass flywheel was more a pre powerstroke problem and only was present in 2 years of powerstrokes.
Just replace it with a solid flywheel at a minimal cost.

The Cam sensors are under recall and have been remedied.

In my opinion if you pulll more than the weight of the truck then a diesel will be beneficial.

The auto trans can be fixed on rebuilds too make them bulletproof.
I have 50k on mine pulling 25k pounds with 3.73 gears.80% city miles.

The 7.3 powerstroke is the best diesel every built for less than a 1 ton truck.

[nosparkplugs]

I actually was a factory trained tech employed by a dealer when the Powerstroke came out.
There is alot of misinformation being posted.

The Dual mass flywheel was more a pre powerstroke problem and only was present in 2 years of powerstrokes.
Just replace it with a solid flywheel at a minimal cost.

The Cam sensors are under recall and have been remedied.

In my opinion if you pulll more than the weight of the truck then a diesel will be beneficial.

The auto trans can be fixed on rebuilds too make them bulletproof.
I have 50k on mine pulling 25k pounds with 3.73 gears.80% city miles.

The 7.3 powerstroke is the best diesel every built for less than a 1 ton truck.

Ford dealer did not say anything about the cam position sensor recall, your full of BS on that.

Ford refused to Fix the sprag gear defect, this was after doing some Google searchs on the Sprag gear defect, and talking with a local respected transmission rebuilder no chain store either. When I talked with the manager of the repair department he said Ford would only replace the transmission with a factory rebuild one, no fix on the sprag gear defect just another "ticking time bomb" Ford Tranny BS BS BS.

What about the powerstrokes inability to tolerate "dirty" oil or the lack of oil additive to reduce Ford did not factor in from the foaming oil that HEUI injection sytem cannot tolerate for efficient injector firing.

Ford Dealer service was the worst I have experienced as a business owner, and diesel owner; further more the local Ford Trained diesel tech's were stumped on ower injector problems, a Ford diesel Gyro was flown into Memphis to visit local dealerships for this problem, and still no answer or fix???? had no choice, but to sell the LEMON for the holy grail of diesel power & reliablity

The Cummins ISB just outpowers & outpulls a Powerstroke, and is less expensive to maintain, I tried Ford Diesel trucks & guess what they SUCK, my Cummins exhaust as I am going up a hill.:clapping:

[AWJ Services]

I have the recall letter as we speak.

http://www.ford.com/dynamic/metatags/article-detail/223-ford-initiates-voluntary-safety-recall

Here is the link.

All diesel certified oil works just fine in The PS.
Why would you want too run dirty oil anyway.
It has a 7500 mile oil change interval and it works just fine for 99% of the owners.

Dodge trans have a way higher incidence of failure not counting the numerous cummins problems like leaking front cover,High incidence of fire due too faulty wiring harness and heat sheilds not too mention frame problems as well as 5th gear nut backing off.:nono:

[totallawncare25]

powerstroke all the way. If you buy the cps they are about 15.00 and 10 minutes to change, and aftermarket come with a lifetime replacement so for 15.00 you will get them for life if it fails again. A 10mm socket and ratchet is all it takes, supposedly mastercraft modified the sensor that is all but the aftermarket ones are modified also, and they make them for mastercraft too.

[nosparkplugs]

I have the recall letter as we speak.

http://www.ford.com/dynamic/metatags/article-detail/223-ford-initiates-voluntary-safety-recall

Here is the link.

All diesel certified oil works just fine in The PS.
Why would you want too run dirty oil anyway.
It has a 7500 mile oil change interval and it works just fine for 99% of the owners.

Dodge trans have a way higher incidence of failure not counting the numerous cummins problems like leaking front cover,High incidence of fire due too faulty wiring harness and heat sheilds not too mention frame problems as well as 5th gear nut backing off.:nono:

the recall was after I sold the truck "a day late & a penny short"

I did not run "dirty" oil, but as I'm sure you already know diesels produce Soot deposits in the oil; change the oil start the engine & it's black again. The Ford Dealer diesel mechanics blammed the poor injector performance to the HEUI injectors high sensitivity to soot in the oil; ironically I believe them because every time we changed the oil at 3,500 miles the powerstroke ran stronger for about 3,500 miles. Powerstrokes are "fussy" diesels period

Ford has been through how many variants of the Powerstroke? count them? all having nothing but recalls. Shall i post the link to the current Law suite pending over non-honor powerstroke work?. How many Cummins 5.9L ISB one engine.

The Dodge 47RE & 48RE have lasted for over 185,000 miles for me before a rebuild. Thats heavy towing over 13,500GTWR daily, I have rebuilt one 47RE, and it was at 201,501 miles? Ford lasted to 45,000miles hauling the same trailer weight.

My Cummins is on fire when i'm rolling down the interstate with 13,500GWTR, nothing yet can hang with the Cummins; folks try, it;s just like a throughbreed horse made to run, and it comes natural.

[Marek]

Its not the soot in the oil that causes the problem. It is the oil breaking down and starting to foam that cause the injectors to not work as they are ment to. The cummins is a good motor but Dodge was a whole lot worse to deal with than Ford. I had a dodge .The rest of the truck just fell apart. Ate brakes and trannys like they were going out of style. You dodge boys are like a cult following , you guys get it but everyone else just looks at you and shacks thier head. Also wait till you lift pump goes and trashes the injetor pump, seems to be a big problem since the new ULS diesel.

[AWJ Services]

My Neighbors Dodge caught on fire twice and and burned too the ground the second time.
It had no ac,no overdrive,the alt was straight wired too make it charge.
All at 80k miles.
So he goes and buys another one just like it.
His claim is they get good mileage.
I get as much as 23 mpg on highway.
The engine may be okay but they need a truck too put it in.LOL