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GrassChopper
12-15-2001, 09:55 AM
This issue has been bothering me for some time now.

The pest control companies have made it very difficult if not impossible for LCOs in Florida to operate legally. FLorida statute 482 requires 3 years of working for a licensed company before you can even apply for a license to apply pest control. I think this is very unfair. I want to be able to apply granular (like LESCO fert with Talstar) but I can't because I haven't worked for a licensed company for THREE years.

I also have a problem with the limited applicator's license. You used to be able to apply granular pest control with it, but now you can't. And you have to have three years experience to apply for this license too! Why do they force some people to operate illegally? Do you really think it takes three years experience to apply Roundup?

I searched the internet for an organization that may be lobbying on the behalf of lawn care professionals, and guess what? I can't find one. There are several professional lawn care organizations, but their main focus is training, seminars and expos, stuff that makes them money but doesn't cost.

I think it is time to have someone who represents the interests of LCO's in FLorida to answer the PCO's in Tallahassee.




:angry:

Ric
12-15-2001, 11:38 AM
AH So, Grasshopper

I have full lic so I see things from the other side. First I am darn glad that it takes Three years working for a lic operator or a college degree and one year to be able to take the second hardest test in the nation. It takes 3 years to know enough to be a beginer and 3 life times to be a expert. I am shocked when I read post from other states that sell pesticide lic at the corner drug store. Pesticides are in fact posions that kill or control life or living things including our selfs. They contaimate our soil, surface water and ground water. We do not own the land or the earth we are borrowing from mother nature and must return it to her equal to or better than we found it, if we are to have social values. Enough of Al Gore and Racheal Carson.

Pesticides are reason you live in Fla. the Bug Capital of America. Pesticide are the reason America feeds the world. Pesticides are the reason our life expectance is ever increasing. Responable pest management makes our world a better place. Responable is the key word here and this takes KNOWNLEDGE.

As for Roundup and Fla. roundup lic (limited pesticide lic.) 99.44/100 % of the people spraying round up have no knowledge of the product. They have never read a label and have no knowledge that it is a FISH KILLER. In fact you canot even spray it in a dry ditch per label. Roundup is not a nonselect total kill as most people would have you believe. Roundup can and is used as a SELECT KILL and a GROWTH REGULATOR. Roundup can also kill brazian pepper trees. Knowledge of this and other chemicals is why Fla. requires you be experienced by working under someone's supervision and or a college degree.

Remember that you are paid more for what you know than for what you do. Get in school or go to work for some one with a lic and willing you teach you. Knowledge is something no one can take away and should be a life long quest. Yes I offer my employees education and even attend the same college nite classes with them. I have retaken some classes and learn something new each time. I am always looking for good people who want to get ahead. I just don't want there backs I want there minds. I have started one guy in bus for him self as a silience partner and exchange work all the time. Yes good help wanted contact Ric.

P.S. the Lawn Maintenance Assc. is trying to lobby in your favor and has been sucessiful in getting a keeping the limited lic here in Fla.

Fantasy Lawns
12-15-2001, 11:57 AM
I have No issues with the statue 482 .... I just wish they would Enforce it ....that law has been on the books since 1992 .....

the pest spray people are a strong group of business people whom have a hold on their field .....smart to control the entry level of competion so the average joe can't join in .....n rightly so as many people just don't have a clue how to spray or apply chemicals correctly .... as for the LCO .....the average lawn monkey just cuts grass

we sub out our spray work ..... much easier to handle ..... plus I get the added experience of the spray people to inform me of issues I may have not picked up on ......

we have the limited for Round-Up n it's a pain sending those guys to class each year ...n expensive ....that's why code needs to enforce this .....

down here on my street there are 3 operations ...2 have trailers n stuff under the car port .....we keep ours in a zoned area ..... I see guys cutting in flip flops .....this summer I saw a 12-13 year old boy cutting a nice yard on a 36" pistol grip while dad was weed wacking .....this was 2 pm on a school day .,...the sad part was the customer that hire them does not realize the legal liability they are in ....but this is a different issue

GroundKprs
12-15-2001, 12:07 PM
In the backward state of Indiana, getting your pesticide license only required a series of testing in the 1970s-80s.

In late 80s, because of the increased awareness of the complications of pesticide useage, a training step was added to the lawn care and structural treatment licensing categories, because these two areas provide the highest chemical exposure to the general population. To limit state resources in the process, the onus of training was placed on the industry; the state lawn care assn ran the training program for someone to take the state test for trainee licensing. During this time, someone with certain educational and experience backgrounds could take the licensing tests and bypass the training steps. But the state still, and always will, be the final tester on the individual's capability, in order to protect the population.

In the later 90s, in order to keep the industry from limiting the people who could enter the field, the state licensing office came up with an intensive 2-day training session for anyone to take, then they could attempt the full licensing testing. There is, of course, preliminary study materials supplied before the training sessions. So now someone with a true desire, and the will to learn properly, can become licensed for lawn pesticide application in the state of Indiana.

If your state licensing authority is not on this track, perhaps you should make them aware of what Indiana has accomplished. But then again, they could learn how to make it harder. We have one of the toughest testing procedures in the country for all pesticide licensing. ;)

groundsguy1970
12-15-2001, 12:21 PM
With all your surface water as well as downpours in the summer I think it's a good thing. Here in Washington State they're tightening up the loop.
THE LESS BOZOS WITH LITTLE KNOWLEDGE AND A SPRAYER THE BETTER....
:)

GrassChopper
12-15-2001, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by groundsguy1970
With all your surface water as well as downpours in the summer I think it's a good thing. Here in Washington State they're tightening up the loop.
THE LESS BOZOS WITH LITTLE KNOWLEDGE AND A SPRAYER THE BETTER....
:)


Well, it's sure nice to know I am a BOZO now.


I have taken the time of reading 482 very thoroughly and guess what?

The limited applicator's license does NOT allow you to spray Roundup anywhere except in plant beds. This means if you spray it on a sidewalk or driveway (in the cracks), or anywhere besides a plant bed, you are in violation.


Secondly, the use of a weed eater or trimmer is prohibited except if you have a PCO license.

I am certainly glad to see that some of you agree that three years experience is needed to spray Roundup on weeds. God forbid you guys have anything to do with requirements for equipment that can cause death or bodily injury. You will need a Master's Degree and 10 years experience with a push mower before you can operate a ZTR.

GrassChopper
12-15-2001, 01:57 PM
You said:
AH So, Grasshopper

I have full lic so I see things from the other side. First I am darn glad that it takes Three years working for a lic operator or a college degree and one year to be able to take the second hardest test in the nation. It takes 3 years to know enough to be a beginer and 3 life times to be a expert. I am shocked when I read post from other states that sell pesticide lic at the corner drug store. Pesticides are in fact posions that kill or control life or living things including our selfs. They contaimate our soil, surface water and ground water. We do not own the land or the earth we are borrowing from mother nature and must return it to her equal to or better than we found it, if we are to have social values. Enough of Al Gore and Racheal Carson.


I say:
I do not want to get into the business of spraying pesticide. I can understand the need for regulating that industry.

You said:
Pesticides are reason you live in Fla. the Bug Capital of America. Pesticide are the reason America feeds the world. Pesticides are the reason our life expectance is ever increasing. Responable pest management makes our world a better place. Responable is the key word here and this takes KNOWNLEDGE.


Sunshine is the reason I live in Florida. I am responsible( I even know how to spell it). Where is your degree from?


You said:
As for Roundup and Fla. roundup lic (limited pesticide lic.) 99.44/100 % of the people spraying round up have no knowledge of the product. They have never read a label and have no knowledge that it is a FISH KILLER. In fact you canot even spray it in a dry ditch per label. Roundup is not a nonselect total kill as most people would have you believe. Roundup can and is used as a SELECT KILL and a GROWTH REGULATOR. Roundup can also kill brazian pepper trees. Knowledge of this and other chemicals is why Fla. requires you be experienced by working under someone's supervision and or a college degree.

I say:
If that many of the people using it don't understand it, then what good is the limited applicator's license. I read labels. I understand what I read. Thank you for condensing the three years experience I need into a paragraph.



You said:
Remember that you are paid more for what you know than for what you do. Get in school or go to work for some one with a lic and willing you teach you. Knowledge is something no one can take away and should be a life long quest. Yes I offer my employees education and even attend the same college nite classes with them. I have retaken some classes and learn something new each time. I am always looking for good people who want to get ahead. I just don't want there backs I want there minds. I have started one guy in bus for him self as a silience partner and exchange work all the time. Yes good help wanted contact Ric.

I say:
Good idea. I will shut down my business for three years and go work for someone else. I don't think my wife and child will mind that I don't make enough to feed them and put a roof over their head. I am paid mainly for mowing grass. I think most people can mow, albeit some better than others.



You said:
P.S. the Lawn Maintenance Assc. is trying to lobby in your favor and has been sucessiful in getting a keeping the limited lic here in Fla.

I say:
Trying to lobby for what on my behalf?

GroundKprs
12-15-2001, 03:44 PM
Mr Grasschopper, throughout history more advances have been on the individual and social level by working within the system, rather that trying to shout the system down from the outside.

Respectfully suggest you calm down and reread Mr. Ric's post in a few days.

WLC
12-15-2001, 05:44 PM
Ric,

LMAO...... 20" Huffy with a 1 gal. sprayer and the wand duct taped to the fender for a boom sprayer and a 3 door pinto ............... that's friggin hilarious. :laugh:

groundsguy1970
12-15-2001, 06:27 PM
Who sprays bugs in FL??? The house I had in Maitland- we just kept a few lizards INSIDE, they'll eat palmettos(sp?) . ServiceMaster has FL. tied up as for aps....with Sears gone they got a mini-empire there! With tougher regs to come with terrorism fears and such....The Miss Florida in 2020 will look something like this:




:alien:





But with a tan!
All Hail Blue Chips!!!!!!
:rolleyes:

sheppard
12-15-2001, 06:47 PM
Glad this issue is being discussed! Thought crossed my mind on what to do legally. I recently subbed out weed control to a local guy who is licenced and experienced. Look at the positive side of this: you can establish good working relationships with your subs and have them bird dog for you. That's the way small towns work anyway.

Cordially,
Sheppard

GrassChopper
12-15-2001, 10:58 PM
Thanks Sheppard,

As I stated before, I am trying to find an organization to lobby for us at Tallahassee. I guess everyone (well, almost everyone, missed that in my first post).

Sheppard's idea is a good short term fix. I will try that. Thanks again.


I guess I will have to sub out my Roundup spraying too!

Ric
12-15-2001, 11:03 PM
Ah so young Grasshooper

The road to inlightenment is a long and lonely one. Knowledge is forever and anger should be never.

Reread 482 my disciple there in you will find your quest. Limited pesticide lic requires three years green industry experience only. If thy has paid homage to thy king then travel to the forbidden city and take thy quest. Travel not with out thy IRS returns and seek the treasure you thirst for. Pay homage to thy local LMA for they sit in the court of thy king and speak of only good on your behaft while the evil PCO does mock you. Alase if thy time is not yet ready, then march thy clock til time is stead.

No Sweat L/C
12-15-2001, 11:58 PM
A few years ago I took the class to get my limited license.Just wanted to be able to spray Roundup in beds and along drives. I found out all the JUNK that you need to be legal. Why is it you can buy the stuff at any home improment store, hardware or garden center with out a linense,but you need one to apply it??

lee b
12-16-2001, 12:08 AM
I could see the license for restricted use pesticides, but not for common chemicals. Why should you have to be licensed to put out something that any homeowner can legally buy and use theirselves, without a license? Dosen't make alot of sense. :rolleyes:

GroundKprs
12-16-2001, 12:10 AM
No sweat, No Sweat, same as:

-you can buy a light switch and install it in your house, but if you hire someone to do it he must be licensed. It's OK if you want to zap yourself, but someone doing the same for a buck with many people must prove to a licensing authority that he can do it right.
-you can buy a new sink and put it in your kitchen, but if you hire someone to do it, he must be licensed. It's OK if you flood your house, and drown the cat in the basement, but someone doing it for a buck must prove he can do it right by taking the plumber's license test, and/or spending many years working his way up in the trade.

Many, many other examples of licensing to protect the public from ignorant contractors.

GrassChopper
12-16-2001, 08:41 AM
There is a loophole in 482. IF the pesticide or herbacide is purchased by the homeowner, and they supply the applicator, you can apply it. You just can't use powered application equipment. You have to use a hand held or backpack sprayer.


I was also informed that the state inspector in this area sits at 7-11 stores between 7:30 and 1:30 and checks all LCO's that pull into the store. If they are carrying Roundup or application equipment, he is issuing warnings. I don't know how long it will be before he begins issuing fines.

sheppard
12-16-2001, 09:10 AM
He had better bring a policeman with a warrent to look in my tool box. Under NO circumstances will I let ANY government official look in my truck or tool box with out my lawyer present. This is American remember? Land of the free and home of the brave.

Cordially,
Sheppard.

lee b
12-16-2001, 10:00 AM
It used to be Sheppard, I don't know about now. I used to wonder how we could lose our freedoms so easily, but now I see alot of people support it if it helps their pocketbook:rolleyes:

sheppard
12-16-2001, 10:28 AM
Good point Lee. I'll still dare any fat government official to look in my truck. I' 6'4" and look naturally mean.

Cordially,
Sheppard

Ric
12-16-2001, 01:12 PM
Gentlemen


The 7--11 Idiot that you are talking about to has a name. His name is Gary Stanford and he does not make the laws. It is his job to enforce the laws that the powers to be have written. Game wardens and agriculture inspectors have search and seizur rights like no other branch of law enforcement. Check with that attorney you all have on retainer.

Oh one more fact for the uninformed and unwilling. Inspector Gary Stanford is a member of Lawnsite. Goooood Luck.

Fantasy Lawns
12-16-2001, 02:55 PM
I have not seen this issue in Cocoa, Cocoa Beach, Merritt Island, Rockledge or Vero ....I'm all for the Inspector that's what we pay them for ..... I wish they would go out after 4 pm & at least every other Saturday ....that's when alot of guys are out scrubbing cash

We Don't EDUCATE the Customer in asking for the correct paper work ..... every time you place a bid .....ask the customer whom is shopping around to at least ask for occ license ....proof of insurance & the limited card if they spray Round Up

Let Gary do his job .....couple $5k fines would clean the area up ....so legitimate operations can make a living ....if you don't let him look over the equipment .... he'll issue a warning .....too bad it takes 3 warning before the first fine

GrassChopper
12-16-2001, 03:53 PM
Florida Statute 482.032(4) states:

The department, or it's agent, is authorized to enter upon any public or private premises or carrier during regular business hours in the performance of it's duties relating to pesticides and records pertaining to same.

If you don't let the inspector look in your truck, you are committing a second degree misdemeanor.


By the way, if you have a limited license, you must maintain records of every time you apply Roundup, for what type of pest, and the location. Do you have these records?

F.S.S. 482.156(5) A person certified under this section shall maintain records documenting the pests and areas treated, plus the methods and materials applied for control of such pests, which records must be available for review by the department upon request.



Don't forget, in Florida, weeds fall under the definition of pest. So if you spray a weed, you must document it.

Fantasy Lawns
12-16-2001, 04:13 PM
I agree it's a PITA ..... I wish the terms of the statue could be more "realistic" ...... the Florida Spray Services are just so powerful too have lobby the law to be as strict as it is ...... many opperators would get legal if the state was more realistic in the terms of 482 ....

why is it we have to have each individual to have a card ..... while a spray service can use anyone to spray ....long as they operate under supervision (not direct) & have recieved "training" (ie spray the green stuff) of just 1 Certified licensed operator ?

but with 14 inspectors with over 14 million people ......4000 pest company's .....6000 applicators .....who knows how many Lawn care ...... they are thin at best

sheppard
12-16-2001, 04:23 PM
No insult intended on the man whom I called an idiot. Common sence however does not condone (nor does a free society) the unannounced, arbitrary exercise of power tha runs up against the constitution.

Any gov. employee that sits at a 7 11 and expects to look in on anyone pulling up with a trailer in my opinion is asking for trouble. There are plenty of wacky, unconstitutional laws that need aggressive protest and civil disobedience.

Cordially,
Sheppard

GrassChopper
12-16-2001, 04:53 PM
And this is the basis for my complaint.

I agree the industry needs regulation. How about reasonable regulation? Not so strick as to guarantee non-compliance. I also think there is something wrong with a law that imposes a criminal charge and a civil fine, independant of each other. Florida misdemeanors carry up to a 500 dollar fine, but this statute allows the department to impose an additional civil fine up to 5000 dollars. Isn't that like double jeopardy?

I still don't think you should have the strict requirements just to spray Roundup. I agree the spraying of pesticides is dangerous and the need for regulation is great. However, to equate Roundup with pesticide spraying is a liitle too much.

And for those of you who feel the need to protect the ecology is a key factor, then why is the statute not applicable to federal property, orchards, greenhouses, aerial application of pesticides, aquatic weed control, or lawns and ornamental plants in an agriculture area?

It seems to me that aerial application of pesticide and orchards would be a major contributor to the potential harm for humans relating the the application of pesticides. And if Roundup is a fish killer, then why is there no regulation of aquatic weed control? Someone may think it is alright to spray Roundup in a pond!

Ric
12-16-2001, 11:00 PM
Gentlemen I feel inlightenment has been reached including my own.

Master Grass Chopper my hat off to you sir. You know 482 to the letter.

I know 482 as intend and not to the letter. I will post the website so other may read 482 as well as Chapter 5E-14. These laws are for the State of Florida Dept of Agriculture consumer Services Beau of Entomology and Pest Control. BEPC regulates residential and commercial pesticide application. 5 license are offered by this dept. 1 Limited pesticide license ( commonly called Roundup license) 2 GHP General Household Pest and Rodent Control. 3 Termite 4 Fumigation 5 Lawn & ornamental. A home owner may apply any General Use Pesticide or GUP to his own premise except Fumigation which is Resisted use Pesticide or RUP.

All other pesticide license are regulated by State of Florida Dept of Agriculture Division of Agricultural Environmental services Beau of Regulation. The Beau of Regulation Issues License for Aguatic, Aerial, Greenhouse, Agriculture, Nursery Growers, Roads & Ride Away, Golf Course, and several more which I can not recall. Yes there is an Aguatic license.

Yes I will agree that agriculture is the biggest abuser of pesticides and chemical fertilizer all over the nation. They are responsible(spelled it right this time) for the everglades contamination and Lake Okeechobee. I am concerned about this and the fact that chlordane is still manufactured in this country and shipped to Latin American countries to spray on the produce that is then sold in our super markets.

Yes I can take a man off the street give him 5 days training and turn him lose to spray. However if or when he messes up it is on me and I can lose my license and I get fined big time. Look at BEPC website and see the fines and who got them. Some of these fines are well over $ 5,000. Therefore I don't turn just anyone lose, they must prove to me they are able to do the job right and I am a hard old nut to crack. Also I do the mixing of the chemicals. Plus I have training records that both he and I sign. If he is not willing to study and go to school then I am not willing to give him a card or a job. Most small operators are pretty good about this. They can not afford not to. The big boys try but corporate pressure forces them to slide a little.

I hope that I have answered your concerns for they are also my concerns. As for Roundup it is a pesticide and a line must be drawn somewhere. The limited pesticide license is to insure that a person be insured and have the ability to read a label. If you are in business then you should have insurance and if you have been in grass cutting or another green industry for a total of Three years then you can take a 6 hour course and a two hour test and get a roundup license. However you must have Tax returns to prove your three years. If you are not paying taxes then you are not honorable enough to have a license and should not cry. If you have taken the limited course and did not get the prove of insurance or be willing to pay the licensing fee then you are not a professional your are a scrub. If you do not have three years in the green industry then wait your time and stop crying other do not cry.

The Lawn Maintenance Assc. Is the lobby group that help get the limited pesticide license in 1992. They have continued to lobby for the rights of there members. As the Ground keeper (whos posts I respect) has stated is much easier to work with in the system than to fight it. To be honest I got busted many years ago by Gary Stanford when he worked my area. It cause me to get legal Thanks Gary. The inspectors are there to help us do the right thing and if you ask there help they will go out of there way to help you.

I will also agree with Theleven (whos posts I respect) that the State of Florida does not do enough to inform our industry or the public of the laws about pesticide or do they have enough inspectors.

Good Luck

Fla pest control website (http://doacs.state.fl.us/~aes-ent/pestcntrl/pcpage1.html)

GrassChopper
12-18-2001, 12:46 AM
You said:
Gentlemen I feel inlightenment has been reached including my own.


I say:
That would be enlightenment.



You said:

The limited pesticide license is to insure that a person be insured and have the ability to read a label. If you are in business then you should have insurance and if you have been in grass cutting or another green industry for a total of Three years then you can take a 6 hour course and a two hour test and get a roundup license. However you must have Tax returns to prove your three years. If you are not paying taxes then you are not honorable enough to have a license and should not cry. If you have taken the limited course and did not get the prove of insurance or be willing to pay the licensing fee then you are not a professional your are a scrub. If you do not have three years in the green industry then wait your time and stop crying other do not cry.


I say:
I am aware of the requirements. If you believe that the limited license is a measure to insure that I can read a label, how about a test? I know there is a test involved, but three years work doesn't insure I can read a label. After all, it was you who said 99.97% of all people using Roundup don't know about the product.

You said:
As the Ground keeper (whos posts I respect) has stated is much easier to work with in the system than to fight it. To be honest I got busted many years ago by Gary Stanford when he worked my area. It cause me to get legal Thanks Gary. The inspectors are there to help us do the right thing and if you ask there help they will go out of there way to help you.

I say:
I guess you don't respect my posts. I have no problem with the inspectors. They are doing their job. I have a problem with the law. I understand that venting in a public forum like this will not result in changes, but I thought that this was a site for the sharing of ideas, whether they conform to your beliefs or not.

You said:
I will also agree with Theleven (whos posts I respect) that the State of Florida does not do enough to inform our industry or the public of the laws about pesticide or do they have enough inspectors.


I say:
I respect all posts, even yours. Even if I don't agree. You are still missing the point of all of these posts so I guess I will stop trying to get you to understand. I am sorry if you misconstrued my intention.

Ric
12-18-2001, 10:43 AM
Grass Chopper

You think the law is too much and I think the law is not enough. I also feel the law in not enforced enough and part of that enforcement is education of the public. Therefore we have agreed to disagree on this point. Religion and politics are areas that can't be argued. Good luck on getting a limited pesticide license. If you don't have three years experience cutting grass you should be close. I am sure once you have the limited license you will feel different. Join the LMA they are fighting for your (our) rights and offer education to there members. I have read other post by you and respect your posts. I have learned from you as I have learned from many others posting here. Hopefully others have learned from me.

bobbygedd
12-18-2001, 03:52 PM
to most people "the law" is a good thing, until it inconveniences them personally. most of u r probably breaking the laws in your borough and dont even realize it. as far as the license thing: i used to sub out all pest/herbicides. the "trained and licensed professionals" destroyed more than half of my customers properties. now i took the bozo test myself and i apply whatever i need. again how come a homeowner doesnt need a license to apply? unlike electricuting himself, or flooding his basement, he is a direct threat to his neighbors, wildlife, and the future of the planet. so, tell me again why the homeowner doesnt need a license? and, the guy at the seven -11, in my opinion, is as guilty as the cop who parks across the street from the pub and pulls over patrons as they leave. as long as u guys believe in every single little law, designed to steal your money, do me a favor. go to the city clerk and tell them that u r running a business, from your home, even though the area is not zoned as a commercial property. now, when they make u move all your equipment(including this computer) to a piece of office space that u have to travel to, and pay rent for, dont come crying to me. GROUNDSKEEPERS: the examples u gave were very poor ones. again, a light switch or a flood hurts the individual, missuse of pesticide hurts alot of people. later....and have a nice day

bobbygedd
12-18-2001, 04:26 PM
years ago, a friend of mine asked to keep some stuff in my garage. he had a big wooden barrel in the corner, after some time i realized it was full of broken bags of weed killer, dursban, fungicide. i called him and told him to get it out of my garage. i later learned that he dumped all of the stuff in the bed of his pickup, and drove up and down the highway till it all blew out. another guy got tired of cutting his lawn so he bought 2 gal of roundup and poured them on the lawn. the stories can go on and on, the fact is that these people were allowed to purchase these products without a license, nor were they harrased at the 7-11. point is, if conservation is truly the motive behind permits and regulations, start with the homeowner, not with us. its almost as though we are being penalized for being in this business. have a nice night

GrassChopper
12-18-2001, 09:01 PM
Excellent point! If the ecology is really that important, then why are we (as professionals) the people who are regulated? It would be my opinion that a homeowner is more dangerous with Roundup than an LCO. If we abuse the product, we lose an account. How long could you survive like that?

Roundup is one of the safest products to use ecologically. Glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup, binds to soil particles and will not move in or on the soil to untreated areas. Once in the soil, Glyphosate breaks down over time into natural materials such as carbon dioxide and nitrogen and does not have any herbicidal activity. In fact, Roundup is the trusted choice of many zoos to keep their animal exhibits weed-free. As stated on the label, Roundup should not be applied to bodies of water such as ponds, lakes or streams as Roundup can be harmful to certain aquatic organisms. Once you know this, it appears that Roundup is one of the least threatening products we use.

So what is the problem?

GroundKprs
12-18-2001, 09:38 PM
Beat the dead horse ?? Again??

Cheese burger
12-18-2001, 09:40 PM
I went to a meeting hosted by our county extension agent, for landscapers today. Guest speeker was PHD from UGA he talked about ongoing gene research to make soy beans,lettuce and corn rounup resistant so that farmers could spray for weeds from the air. He said that glysophate the active ingredient in roundup is safer than table salt. I don't know but I'm still going to be careful with anything that effective at killing.

Dave

LJ lawn
12-18-2001, 11:25 PM
i don't think it's beating a dead horse on this subject.if all those opposed with the regulations and laws actually DID something about it-(voicing their opposition) then maybe something would be done about it.the real problem is the MONEY. follow the MONEY trail.if it wasn't PROFITABLE for the EPA to have their hand in your pocket they wouldn't be in business.if they are so concerned with pollution they would ban all the sales of chemicals from all the garden centers.it's exactly the same crap we as automobile owners have to put up with. the epa lets big business crank out millions of tons of pollution on a daily basis,yet we have to go through enhanced emission tests when its been proven that automobiles create substantialy less pollution than they claim.-get the picture yet? its all about making the little guy pay.

Ric
12-18-2001, 11:50 PM
Jim

I hear a interesting story the other day

An old man, a small boy, and their donkey were heading into town. The boy rode on the donkey, and the old man walked along side.

As they went along, they passed some people who remarked it was a shame the old man had to walk while the boy was riding. The man and boy thought that maybe the critics were right, so they changed positions.

Later, they passed some people who remarked, "What a shame, he makes that little boy walk." So the old man and the boy decided they would both walk.

Soon they passed some more people who said they were stupid to walk when they had a decent donkey to ride. So, they both rode the donkey.

Finally, they passed some people that shamed them by saying how awful to put such a load on a poor donkey. The boy and man said they were probably right, so they decided to carry the donkey.

As they crossed the bridge, they lost their grip on the animal, and he fell into the river and drowned.

The moral of the story? If you try to please everyone, you might as well kiss your ass good-bye.

sheppard
12-19-2001, 08:04 AM
Excellent story to illustrate negative minded busy bodies. Know too many people like that.

I,m going to save this story and circulate it in my church!

Cordially,
Sheppard

GroundKprs
12-19-2001, 09:26 AM
AMEN !!