Erratic Valve Solenoid/System

[kew]

Hello. I have recently installed an irrigation system. I used a Pro-C controller for the front with 10 stations and another Pro-C controller for the back with 11 stations. Both units are fitted with modules allowing for 15 stations each. Also connected to each is the smartport wiring harness as I also utilise a remote control at times.

About a month ago I noticed that a zone at the front and a zone at the rear were malfunctioning. Those zones are on different controllers and do not use any common wiring apart from the 240 volts domestic power. The solenoids were activating for a split second on each of the 2 zones at different times to each other maybe a few times a minute giving bursts through the sprinklers.

I turned off the water and removed the solenoid on the front system and it was activating in my hand (going on an off a few times a minute) but it (according to the controller's display) the zone was not on. I ended up cleaning the valve etc. It hasn't done that since tonight when the greenhouse sprinklers were doing the same thing with a short burst a couple of time every minute.

Again, when removed from the valve, I noticed the solenoid activate so it was getting an electrical charge to do so. I was thinking perhaps the controller may have received a power surge or something or perhaps the smartport was getting some sort of interference though nothing appears on the screens. I have run a "quick check" and there does not appear to be a problem with the wiring.

The smartport is connected within about 2 feet of the controller and does not have shielded cable so it should be okay.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

[Mike Leary]

Welcome to the forum. I don't use the Hunter clocks, so someone else will have to
jump in on that. I have had that problem before, but not on a fairly new (I assume)
system. As a valve solenoid receives current, a amount of heat is generated, too much
heat and the solenoid will short, where when it's cold, it'll fire for a instant. You could
have this problem, I'm assuming you checked the controller settings for "pilot error".
The easiest first thing would be test the solenoids with a volt-ohm meter (VOM).
Remove the wires at the valves, set the VOM to "ohms", it should read between
15 & 50 ohms. You can "ohm" the system from the clock, but check at the valve
first, make sure you add new water-proof connectors when re-assembling.

[irrig8r]

Check the voltage outputs at the controller too. I had a problem with a diff. brand of controller recently where I was getting intermittent voltage readings of 7 to 12 VAC... Enough to open the valves just a little, and made them "pulse"...

My problem turned out to be a warranty repair, and involved replacing a circuit board. Hopefully yours is simpler.

[Mike Leary]

Check the voltage outputs at the controller too. I had a problem with a diff. brand of controller recently where I was getting intermittent voltage readings of 7 to 12 VAC... Enough to open the valves just a little, and made them "pulse"...

Whoa! That would have been a head scratcher to find, good going.:waving:

[londonrain]

also make sure you have the larger 9 zone expansion module after the two 3 zone modules IE: zones 7-15 for the larger module.....

[AI Inc]

I use a real lot of these controllers and have never heard what you describe. To tell you the truth I have only heard of issuses like this when a controller is running on more then 110 v.

[anthonyslandscaping]

If the solidoid was activating without the timer being turned on for that zone then you have a faulty timer. Pull the plug on the timer, remove the battery, wait 15 secs. put battery back in and plug the timer in. hold down the reset button for 15 sec. then reprogram the timer. If this does not work then switch the solinoid with another zone wire and see if the problem persists. If it does then your timer is shot, and needs to be replaced.

On a side note a Hunter pro-c is warranteed for 5 years from Hunter. Check the date code on the circut board.

[kew]

Thanks for all your suggestions. I checked the wiring at the solenoid and the controller, both when the valve is on and when it is off and all appears okay using the ohms meter.

The modules are all in the correct positions.

All outside wires are sealed using gel caps and the unused wires in the controller are taped.

I proceeded with a hard reset of both controllers and reprogrammed them. The symptom has not resurfaced however apart from last night, the previous time it did this was a month ago so if it going to resurface it may not for some time.

I also read in the Hunter "trouble shooting common controller problems" literature which said "Make sure that the SmartPort wiring is not bundled with the field wiring. (Bundling wires may cause interference.)" I had bundled my smartport wires with the field wires so I rerouted those. However, I wasn't using the smartport remote control at the time so it probably wasn't affecting the system anyway.

Anyway, all is calm now. Thank-you again!

[nylan8888]

Since it is two seperate timers both acting the same. could it be a sugre from a storm that affected the electronics?

[kew]

Hello nylan8888.

We haven't had a recent storm or rain for that matter for a long time. We are in drought conditions here. For the garden I rely on pumping underground water. I have the green house valve open every 3 days at 1-15pm. I know it opened yesterday and the trouble occurred yesterday evening as far as I know as I did not notice it during the day. I'm very conscious of when the pump starts as the lights in the house sort of flicker for split second on the load of the pump starting up.

When I see the lights flicker when there should be no watering, I know there is a problem such as a leak. I have had a problem with one of the disc filters not sealing properly in the past which caused the pump to cycle and thus make the lights flicker on the cycling of the pump.

It is a very strange problem with the intermittent bursts from the sprinklers. I'm hoping the hard reset of the controller fixed the problem but if it means adding surge protection to the wall outlets I will do it, however I understand these Pro-C units already have surge protection.

[nylan8888]

Hello nylan8888.

We haven't had a recent storm or rain for that matter for a long time. We are in drought conditions here. For the garden I rely on pumping underground water. I have the green house valve open every 3 days at 1-15pm. I know it opened yesterday and the trouble occurred yesterday evening as far as I know as I did not notice it during the day. I'm very conscious of when the pump starts as the lights in the house sort of flicker for split second on the load of the pump starting up.

When I see the lights flicker when there should be no watering, I know there is a problem such as a leak. I have had a problem with one of the disc filters not sealing properly in the past which caused the pump to cycle and thus make the lights flicker on the cycling of the pump.

It is a very strange problem with the intermittent bursts from the sprinklers. I'm hoping the hard reset of the controller fixed the problem but if it means adding surge protection to the wall outlets I will do it, however I understand these Pro-C units already have surge protection.

True they have surge protection from the power coming in but not from the zone wiring feeding it backward into the controller from the wiring being struck by lightning, however I would think you would see other related electrical problems as well if that were the case.

[WalkGood]

This is probably a stretch

I have seen low voltage AC power come from the coax shield of cablevision wires. The coax was attached with a grounding block which was screwed into and thru the aluminum siding of the house.

Do you have a wired rain sensor (wired to interupt the common wires) that could somehow be picking up some random voltage?

[kew]

Hello WalkGood.

Thanks for your suggestion. I have a Hunter Rain-Clik wireless rain sensor fitted to both controllers. I have satellite television and there are no cables in the vicinity of either controller.

I had another look at the valve of the offending station today and it is suffering a small leak (dripping) visible underneath the valve so I replaced the valve and retaped the threads on the manifold (probably nothing wrong with the valve but I had a nice clean one ready for the job) . No leaks anymore but this still does not account for the power the solenoid was receiving.

[londonrain]

I looked at a property yesterday with a Hunter ICC and the solenoid was doing the exact same thing...clicking on and off...the controller was in the off position and it was still clicking. I put my multimeter on the zone wire at the controller and it has pulsing from .01-5.3 in the off position....I am going back today and will check it again...the first time I tried firing the zone it would not work but the second time it worked fine...I will take a video if it is still pulsing today...

[kew]

Thanks londonrain. Unfortunately I wasn't bright enough to put a multimeter on the zone wire at the time of the problem but it sounds like your situation is same/similar to mine. Be interesting what you find out!! Maybe that small voltage is enough to click it open but not keep it open???

[irrig8r]

That's what I was suggesting in an earlier post.... though it was an Irritrol Rain Dial I had...

[kew]

Mmmmmm. I really hope that it doesn't have to go in for a warranty repair irrig8r. I can see that taking quite some time.

[Mike Leary]

Mmmmmm. I really hope that it doesn't have to go in for a warranty repair irrig8r. I can see that taking quite some time.

With the system so new, I'd make them give you fresh guts, if that is the
problem; pretty wierd it happened to both clocks, though. I remember a
guy in South Africa that had problems with his export controller.

[londonrain]

as promised a video of a Hunter solenoid clicking erratically on a Hunter ICC controller while in the off position ....
you can hear and see the solenoid clicking....
multimeter was showing a jump to 5v even with the controller in the off position...

http://webpages.charter.net/nixdiecast/solenoid.MOV

[DanaMac]

as promised a video of a Hunter solenoid clicking erratically on a Hunter ICC controller while in the off position ....
you can hear and see the solenoid clicking....
multimeter was showing a jump to 5v even with the controller in the off position...

http://webpages.charter.net/nixdiecast/solenoid.MOV

Wowww.... exciting!!!

Just bustin' the chops.

[Wet_Boots]

I'm guessing if you put a scope on that connection, you'd see more than five volts.

[londonrain]

I'm guessing if you put a scope on that connection, you'd see more than five volts.
Help me out on this one Boots, a scope?

[Wet_Boots]

Oscilloscope - a momentary jolt of the 24VAC might only deflect a multimeter needle to 5 volts. A scope would display the actual waveform of the momentary power.

[DanaMac]

Oscilloscope - a momentary jolt of the 24VAC might only deflect a multimeter needle to 5 volts. A scope would display the actual waveform of the momentary power.

Geek..... in the nicest form. :)

[londonrain]

Oscilloscope - a momentary jolt of the 24VAC might only deflect a multimeter needle to 5 volts. A scope would display the actual waveform of the momentary power.thanks, learn something new everyday....did not know the name of the instrument but know what you are talking about.....looks like a small tv with wave lengths...

[Wet_Boots]

....as featured in the opening of the show that scared the bejeebers out of many a baby boomer.

[irrig8r]

Back when I was just outta high school a friend of mine had one that he got surplus somewhere... He used it for tuning some weird musical instruments he was building... we'd watch it for a little while, but it was really about as dull as watching Love Boat reruns on TV... :rolleyes:

[Wet_Boots]

Those patterns are called Lissajous (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lissajou) figures.

[txgrassguy]

Your problem is in the connection to the expansion modules.
I know as I see this all of the time in 230 volt units- probably the only "semi-weak" link in the Hunter series of controllers.
What is happening is a poor connection exists in the "power" lock that secures the connection between the module and the cabinet.
To correct, first start with a hard reset then unlock the modules with all power disconnected to the controller. Check for corrosion on the terminals, lightly clean with a good pencil eraser then dust off with a small horsehair, not nylon, paint brush. Do not blow on the terminals just brush off. Then clean the contacts on the module as well.
I recommend a horsehair, non synthetic brush as I have seen synthetic brush hairs act as a conductor and short across two or more terminals.
I surmise that what is happening is the controller is measuring increased resistance due to the poor connection and the transformer is increasing the duration of the signal to that solenoid resulting in an intermittent surge causing the solenoid to experience just enough of a residual pulse to open up.
Solenoids can store a bit of a charge in the magnets so if enough pulses occur the solenoid can then fail as the accumulated charge will surge through the solenoid resulting in a fault.
As a final point, make sure you are separating the common and neutral wires to your power source and make sure in these two wires no nicks are evident as an atmospheric breach here will occur as well.

[londonrain]

Your problem is in the connection to the expansion modules.
I know as I see this all of the time in 230 volt units- probably the only "semi-weak" link in the Hunter series of controllers.
What is happening is a poor connection exists in the "power" lock that secures the connection between the module and the cabinet.
To correct, first start with a hard reset then unlock the modules with all power disconnected to the controller. Check for corrosion on the terminals, lightly clean with a good pencil eraser then dust off with a small horsehair, not nylon, paint brush. Do not blow on the terminals just brush off. Then clean the contacts on the module as well.
I recommend a horsehair, non synthetic brush as I have seen synthetic brush hairs act as a conductor and short across two or more terminals.
I surmise that what is happening is the controller is measuring increased resistance due to the poor connection and the transformer is increasing the duration of the signal to that solenoid resulting in an intermittent surge causing the solenoid to experience just enough of a residual pulse to open up.
Solenoids can store a bit of a charge in the magnets so if enough pulses occur the solenoid can then fail as the accumulated charge will surge through the solenoid resulting in a fault.
As a final point, make sure you are separating the common and neutral wires to your power source and make sure in these two wires no nicks are evident as an atmospheric breach here will occur as well.

Thanks for the tip, however the controller is in the off position and more than one solenoid is pulsing at the same time......

[anthonyslandscaping]

Are you guys bundleing the irrigation wires with any telecommunication lines? Telephone and irrigation both run 24volt. The same jump in current could be interference.

[kew]

Hello and thanks londonrain.

Thanks for posting the that clip. That is what mine are doing but up to three times a minute in split second bursts. Now...... are you putting that down to a controller problem?

[kew]

Thanks txgrassguy. It's just very unusual that it happened previously at the same time on the two controllers which are independent from each other. Both controllers are new and are in the weather resistant type boxes and are out of the weather. I had a look at the modules but the contacts are still new looking. Thanks

anthonyslandscaping - thanks but definitely no telecommunication wires bundled with them or anywhere nearby.

[kew]

Sunday 18 May 2008
The backyard controller had just finished its program (the backyard controller only operatives on even dates) about 8-00pm when about 10 minutes later I saw a slight flicker of lights in the house meaning the pump had started up. I went outside and had a scout around making sure all the taps were turned off on the property.

I noticed the lawn sprinklers beside the roadway which operate on the front controller (only operates on odd dates) had been on long enough just to wet in front of them. Although it didn't happen again for the time I was standing there, I have no doubt that the problem is persisting.

Any other ideas?

[DanaMac]

Any other ideas?

Is it only happening on this one particular zone?
temp fix ideas -
1. unhook that one particular zone wire and just hook up when needed for a manual watering
2. can two zones be hooked together so that the one terminal is blank that is causing a problem?
3. do you have an empty zone terminal? if so move the wire from the problem terminal to an empty one

[kew]

Hello Dana.

The controllers have maximum 15 stations of which I am using 11 stations on each controller so I have 4 spare available on each controller. The controllers came standard with 9 station modules. I expanded it with another two 3 stations modules to make a total of 15 stations for each controller.

The fault doesn't seem to be with one particular station, it seems to jump around. I will try your temporary fix if the problem continues. Thanks.

[AI Inc]

Have you spoken with a Hunter rep yet?

[kew]

Hello AI Inc.

I bought the two controllers from the local irrigation supply shop. I suppose if there is a problem with the controllers, there will be more than just my two that are causing problems.

I will go into town tomorrow and ask them about it. Thanks

[AI Inc]

Hello AI Inc.

I bought the two controllers from the local irrigation supply shop. I suppose if there is a problem with the controllers, there will be more than just my two that are causing problems.

I will go into town tomorrow and ask them about it. Thanks

Reason I asked is there was a bloke here from S Africa a few weeks back also having electrical probs with a pro c hooked to 230 . From what I understand there has been an issue.

[londonrain]

Hello Dana.

The controllers have maximum 15 stations of which I am using 11 stations on each controller so I have 4 spare available on each controller. The controllers came standard with 9 station modules. I expanded it with another two 3 stations modules to make a total of 15 stations for each controller.

The fault doesn't seem to be with one particular station, it seems to jump around. I will try your temporary fix if the problem continues. Thanks.
The controller should have come standard with a 3 zone module in the first slot (IE: the lowest slot on the board), then you add another 3 zone module, then the 9 zone module should be the last one installed...I remember getting a tech bulletin about making sure the 9 zone module was not placed first in the series of modules....I know you stated the modules are correct but the nine zone module should not have come standard...only a 3 zone....can you take a pic of your controller setup...

[Mike Leary]

Reason I asked is there was a bloke here from S Africa a few weeks back also having electrical probs with a pro c hooked to 230 . From what I understand there has been an issue.

I remember that one too, I don't know if he ever solved the problem, Ed Hunter was questioned about
the problems with the export clocks, but we received no answer.

[mowerman111]

This is funny reading this I just had this happen with a rainbird lx series, it was about six years old. the customer would call and tell me he could hear ticking in the valve boxes, I would check for voltage at the timer there wouldn't be any, I would go to the valves and it would have quit. I would turn the timer on and off it wouldn't do it anymore. couple days later it would start ticking again. checked for voltage at the timer wouldn't show any go over to the valves it stopped again. a few days later customer calls says its ticking again this time I check for voltage at valves first sure enough it it would show from 1.3 to 1.5 volts. went and checked voltage at the timer there was nothing. went and checked the valves and it had stopped. So I called an electrician friend he told me that it sounded like the timer was storing up voltage and when I was touching the terminals with the volt meter then it would ground it and discharge the built up voltage. So at the same time the station five started sticking open every so often while the timer was running, as soon as I would go out and check every thing it would not stick open. It drove me crazy finally I had the electrician come out and change the timer out for me. So far so good no more problem and station five no longer sticks open. Its been about three weeks now. I don't know why two timers would act up at the same time, but this is what happened to me. This really started last summer but it wasn't hurting anything until station five started staying open.

[kew]

Thanks londonrain, MikeLeary and mowerman111 for your input. I've attached some pics of one of my Pro-C Controllers. Thinking back, I was mistaken when I said I purchased them as 9 zone controllers. I actually purchased them as 3 zone controllers added a 9 and later again added a 3 making a total of 15 each. The first of the modules (a 3) is fitted at the bottom then I have a 3 module and then the 9 module.

I spoke to the Hunter Rep today. They were not familiar with the problem I was having. Suggested it might be some sort of power spike and suggested I fit a surge protector. I went to the electrical wholesale shop to get one but they said this would not help. Suggested the only thing that may help would be a power filter at a cost of around $500-00 but there was no guarantee this would do the trick and he recommended I did not buy one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/kew/P1010880.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/kew/P1010881.jpg

[kew]

When I saw the pic of the controller, I was a little or a lot embarrassed as the wiring job looked pretty messy mainly because I left so much wire in reserve. Well I cut down on that and went for neatness..... :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/kew/HunterController01.jpg

[londonrain]

Question...Why do you have the ground for the transformer going to the upper left screw hole and not on the ground terminal ? is that because 230/250 only has 2 power inputs and no need for a ground?

[AI Inc]

good eyes.

[londonrain]

After checking the instructions for 230/250, the ground should be connected on the ground strip on the board... not sure if it would cause your problem ....

[kew]

Hello Londonrain and thanks again for looking into the problem I have with my Pro-C.

I just took another pic. The earth had a plastic cap on it with no instructions what to do with it so to put it out of the way, I just placed it into the screw hole. It fits nicely there. :rolleyes:

In the pic I have just taken I have pulled it out of the screw hole.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/kew/HunterControllerPro-C01.jpg

[AI Inc]

there is a ground tap just below the ac tap, use it.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Ground that thing. May solve your problem.

[londonrain]

check out the wiring diagram for 230/250

http://www.hunterindustries.com/support/Installation_Adjustment/Owner_Manual/Controllers/ProC/ProC_Instructions06.html

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

check out the wiring diagram for 230/250

http://www.hunterindustries.com/support/Installation_Adjustment/Owner_Manual/Controllers/ProC/ProC_InstructionsFrame.html

Did you take some time off this weekend LR?

[londonrain]

Did you take some time off this weekend LR?if you call paperwork time off then yes... todays 7:00am appointment canceled on me yesterday but thats ok...:)

[kew]

Thanks all for the input. I'll attach the green wire to the GND terminal below the AC terminal. Whatever happens or doesn't happen, I can't see that it will hurt...

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

if you call paperwork time off then yes... todays 7:00am appointment canceled on me yesterday but thats ok...:)

Sadly I do call paperwork time off.

[DanaMac]

if you call paperwork time off then yes... todays 7:00am appointment canceled on me yesterday but thats ok...:)

Same here. caught up on paperwork, and oddly enough it completely relaxed me.

AND first appointment for one of my techs canceled late yesterday. I didn't want to call anyone and reschedule for it yesterday.

[AI Inc]

if you call paperwork time off then yes... todays 7:00am appointment canceled on me yesterday but thats ok...:)

Thats useualy how I spend Sunday mornings. Wife is sleeping and the phone isnt ringing.

[Mike Leary]

Sadly I do call paperwork time off.

It was not too bad for me, I spread it over Sat. & Sun if I had large billings,
had T.V. in the office, watched NASCAR, drank, smoked. Rather enjoyed it, the
secret is to not get too far behind.

[AI Inc]

It was not too bad for me, I spread it over Sat. & Sun if I had large billings,
had T.V. in the office, watched NASCAR, drank, smoked. Rather enjoyed it, the
secret is to not get too far behind.

You got that right. I do a bank deposit every night. During start up season I bill out all the easy stuff daily, save the pita bills for Sunday AM.

[kew]

Sorry for resurrecting this post...

Tonight, (June 5) it happened again. (the controllers have been off by the rain sensor for the last 6 or so days) The front controller had been through its program. I went out the back and noticed the sprinklers in one garden were going on and off for a brief second although the controller at the back was not on any program.

This time I used a multimeter at the controller and noticed that the terminal was getting voltage for a split second. I then turned on the zone at the controller and measured the reading which was the same. I then stopped it and turned it back to the run position. A short time later, another zone did exactly the same thing. I've had to turn off the controller.

Any more ideas please?

[Wet_Boots]

Long past time for a new controller. Return that sucker.

[kew]

It seems that both are having problems. It is so frustrating. I'm ready to go to a different controller.

[DanaMac]

It seems that both are having problems. It is so frustrating. I'm ready to go to a different controller.

Without me going through the entire thread, you say you have two, and they both are doing the problem. Do you have separate common wires going to each controller? Or do they share one common wire. I've seen issues where two controllers share a common wire.

[kew]

Hi,

Each controller is entirely separate from the other. They do not share any common wires. This is makes it so frustrating. If it was just the one mucking up then I would return it but because they both are, it makes me think it is something else or is it just a bad batch but if so why hasn't anyone else had a problem?

The Hunter Rep has not heard of the problem.

[DanaMac]

Could be the phitzer valve :)

[kew]

DanaMac,

I read somewhere that you can fix that with some 30 weight ball bearings, gauze, and duct tape!

[DanaMac]

DanaMac,

I read somewhere that you can fix that with some 30 weight ball bearings, gauze, and duct tape!

Yes! He got it!

[Waterit]

Are the controllers on the same supply circuit (same breaker)?

Is there a GFI on the supply circuit?

There are line conditioners available that "clean" the supply voltage, like you would use for a home theater setup. We had to install one on an ESP-LX application where the same sporadic voltage thing was happening.

[kew]

Hello Waterit,

Thanks. Not sure whether they are on the same circuit or not. What's a G.F.I ? I haven't had any problem with anything else in the house. For the greater percentage of the time, the controllers work perfectly. I understand those conditioners are quite expensive.

[kew]

Okay, I googled that. Ground fault interrupter. We do have that but we call it a circuit breaker.

[WalkGood]

I think it is because he is using a controller made for North America. Mount the controllers upside down and they should work fine in Australia.

[DanaMac]

Walkgood - that is great. And probably true. Also I like you made your equipment into links. that is classic....

[WalkGood]

Walkgood - that is great. And probably true. Also I like you made your equipment into links. that is classic....


Finally! Someone noticed my links!
:clapping:

[Wet_Boots]

Finally! Someone noticed my links!
:clapping:I think a bit of paint could turn my Dewalt into a "Phil the Drill" :)

[kew]

Okay, well things have altered slightly. I was in touch with my local irrigation store today and sent the owner a fax outlining the problem. He also recommended that I reset the Controllers.

I told him that my past resetting was probably not quite correct but I was unable to reset as set out in the instructions. I in fact turned the controllers off at the wall and carried out a reset which worked. I thought that was okay.

He advised that it wasn't okay that way and it had to be done the way it said in the book. After several tries, it finally worked and reset. Its all been reprogrammed up again. So it is a matter of wait and see.

[AI Inc]

Im glad you posted here. I have a customer wqe installed last August that called yesterday with the same problem. This guy is kinda a PITA, always calls after it rains to say " my controller isnt working , even on run it says off" he cannot see the sensor under off . Well yesterdaywhen I got his message I just kinda blew it off as here we go again , then remembered this post.
Probably change that clock out next week.

[kew]

Thanks. I'll be interested to see if that solves the problem.

[Mike Leary]

Let us know, this sure has been a head scratcher! :dizzy:

[AI Inc]

Acording to Hunter rep the problem is in the factory installed 3 zone + com , p/mv module. Slide power clip to off, remove module , put it back in and reset power clip.

[Wet_Boots]

A normal power-down isn't enough? Interesting.

[kew]

Hello AI Inc and thanks for the advice. I had tried another reset but I still have the problem so I will try your suggested remedy.

Today I booked an electrician that is familiar with irrigation installations to come and have a look at the switchboard and pump. I also checked to see if the controllers were on the same circuit as the pump and they are not.

There are also a couple of things I have noted. Although the controllers operate in the morning and evening, the problem only occurs in the evening and seems to occur just after the program finishes on one of the controllers. (The controller at the front is set only to operate on odd days whilst the rear is set to only operate on even days). Another thing I noticed is that the problem stations are those in the 9 modules (I can't recall a problem with the lower modules but I am not absolutely certain about this).

I am very much hoping your remedy will fix this problem... thanks!

[Mike Leary]

You have the patience of Job.

[Waterit]

Had one today with an ESP pulling in a pump start even when controller in "OFF" position.

Wondering if it has to do with pulling off one leg of 220 and then tying neutral and ground together...

[Mike Leary]

Had one today with an ESP pulling in a pump start even when controller in "OFF" position

Using dweeb clocks for pump start/ master valve applications is dumb;
so is not having the electricians/ pump guys wire the hot side.

[Waterit]

Using dweeb clocks for pump start/ master valve applications is dumb;
so is not having the electricians/ pump guys wire the hot side.

Ease off there, Slick, it was a service call on a system we didn't put in. Here, pump guys wire nothing, electricians may or may not, we're left on our own much of the time.

I have NEVER wired 110 from one side of 220 without pulling a neutral in besides the ground. And that is also technically illegal and against code - A, 230VAC doesn't USE a neutral, and B, I'm not a licensed electrician, I just play one when at work.

[kew]

Okay AI Inc.

I've slid the power lock to the off position in both controllers. Removed the lowest module and put it back in. I then slid the power lock to the on position. Here's hoping the problem is rectified!

This is my first installation of a fully automatic sprinkler system as a home owner on a block just over an acre in size. I've used 130 MPR40 rotator sprinkler bodies with 40psi pressure regulation and check valve with a wide range of MP Rotator nozzles including the strip models.

The gardens have hundreds of sprinklers and the system includes a green house and hanging baskets. The main pipe is 2 inches and the laterals 1 inch. The water is pumped from a bore. I also have a fertigator attached.

I did a lot of homework before starting, reading whats on the web and on this forum... all good stuff that helped a lot. I suffered the torment from a neighbour who said I was mad putting in so many heads, that I was spending too much money and that I did not need to go head to head and that I did not know what I was doing but what I did know that head to head is a must. But to compare our two lawns now is telltale that I did it right. Lots of dry areas, donuts and arcs of different colour on my neighbour's lawn whilst mine is a beautiful even green.

Although the Pro-C is my first irrigation controller I have had experience with, I am very happy with the ease of setting the programs and the setting up of the unit. The problem I have been having is just very unfortunate I think.

Anyway here are a few pics of some regular visitors...(Americans love kangaroos - or find them strangely fascinating) I was told in the first pic that they look fake (actually like animatronic animals) but they are real I assure you. :) Interestingly, kangaroos are very gentle eaters. You cannot really tell where they have been eating. They do eat some plants and flowers but they don't pull them out of the ground to eat them. The lawn at the front adjacent to the road was only recently trenched for the irrigation work and is recovering well, even though it is winter here.

The last pic is a possum and her baby eating some carrot that we really should not give them. They eat any fruit or vegetables that you might have growing. I've made little boxes in the trees for them to reside and they are very happy there. Its a good idea as it keeps them from trying to get into the roof space where it can cause problems. Unfortunately, relocating problem possums results in their death as they cannot be successfully relocated!.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/kew/roosgarden.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/kew/roosfront.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/kew/possumandbub.jpg

[AI Inc]

It works! I pulled the module and reinserted and now I have Kangaroos too!

[kew]

Yeah, instead of pop up lawn sprinklers, I have pop up kangaroos! :laugh:

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Great pics KEW! Keep us up to speed on things Australian.

[kew]

Here are some facts about kangaroos...

Amazing Kangaroo Facts

A Kangaroo is a marsupial mammal. It is a macropod which means "big foot".

When European explorers first saw these strange hopping animals they asked a native Australian (aborigine) what they were called. He replied "kangaroo" meaning "I don't understand" your question. The explorers thought this was the animal's name. And that's how the kangaroo got its name.

The Kangaroo moves by hopping on its powerful hind legs. It uses its thick long tail to balance its body while hopping. A kangaroo can hop at up to 60kmh (40mph). It can also leap over obstacles up to 3m (10ft) high.

Because of the unusual shape of its legs and its bulky tail a kangaroo can't walk or move backwards very easily.

A male kangaroo is called a boomer, and a female is called a flyer.

If you lift a kangaroo's tail off the ground, it can't hop. Roos use their tail for balance.

Male kangaroos do not have pouches.

There are 47 varieties of kangaroo, ranging in size from the two-pound rock wallaby to the 6-foot, 300-pound red kangaroo.

Kangaroos live up to 20 years in captivity, but only six in the wild.

Kangaroos are found in Australia, Tasmania, and New Guinea. Most are terrestrial and all are herbivorous, grazing and browsing for their food.

Each long, narrow hind foot has four toes. The short forelimbs are used almost like human arms, but the thumb is not opposable.

Kangaroos possess soft, wooly fur, and some have stripes on the head, back, or upper limbs.

All kangaroos have a chambered stomach that is functionally similar to those of such ruminants as cattle and sheep. They regurgitate the vegetation they have eaten, chew it as cud, and then swallow it again for final digestion.

Kangaroos need very little water to survive and are capable of going for months without drinking at all. When they do need water, they dig "wells" for themselves, frequently going as deep as three or four feet.

Kangaroos travel in groups (mobs) under the leadership of the largest male ("old man," or "boomer"), which dominates younger rivals by biting, kicking, and boxing.

Kangaroos usually have one young annually. The young kangaroo, or joey, is born alive at a very immature stage, when it is only about 2 cm long and weighs less than a gram. Immediately after birth it crawls up the mother's body and enters the pouch. The baby attaches its mouth to one of four teats, which then enlarges to hold the young animal in place. After several weeks, the joey becomes more active and gradually spends more and more time outside the pouch, which it leaves completely between 7 and 10 months of age. Female kangaroos enter into heat within a few days after giving birth; they mate and conceive, but after only one week's development the microscopic embryo enters a dormant state that lasts until the previous young leaves the pouch. The development of the second embryo then resumes and proceeds to birth after a gestation period of about 30 days.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/kew/Joey_in_pouch.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/kew/kang1week.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/kew/babykangaroo.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v411/kew/kan.jpg

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

I think the only marsupials in Texas are possums.

[WalkGood]

When European explorers first saw these strange hopping animals they asked a native Australian (aborigine) what they were called. He replied "kangaroo" meaning "I don't understand" your question. The explorers thought this was the animal's name. And that's how the kangaroo got its name.





We have an Indian tribe here named in a slightly similiar fashion..... The Hekawi. The Hekawi tribe supposedly derived their name from an incident in which the tribe became lost, exclaiming "Where the heck are we?", which then became "We're the Hekawi". ;)


Where Indian fights are colorful sights
And nobody takes a lickin',
Where paleface and redskin
Both turn chicken.

[Wet_Boots]

Where Indian fights are colorful sights
And nobody takes a lickin',
Where paleface and redskin
Both turn chicken.http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:JKPdAKDiNddtlM:http://www.nndb.com/people/933/000022867/storch.jpg

[WalkGood]

:headphones:


http://www.classictvhits.com/shows/sounds/ftroop1.wav


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/99/Frank_Dekova.jpg/210px-Frank_Dekova.jpg

[kew]

Okay, I spoke with the Electrician after faxing him with information about the problem. I thought a fax was best rather than a long phone conversation. He too was unfamiliar with such a problem although he was suspicious that it only ever occurred at night.

He suspects it could have something to do with the power supply. In Australia and probably in the U.S. too, domestic power usually have two tariff rates on electrical power (1) Domestic and (2) Controlled Supply often referred to as Off Peak.

During the evening when power consumption is lower, the power authority sends a signal down the electrical line to switch on Controlled Supply (off peak) appliances such as the hot water system. This way, the home owner saves money as the tariff is lower.

The electrician suspects that the signal is playing havoc with the controller. I suspect he may be correct as it only happens after a program and only at night. When the Controllers are off by rain sensor, there's never a problem.

The Electrician has asked me to record the times when it happens and give him a call so he can visit when it is taking place. A feature of the Controlled Supply (off peak) is that it is activated at a time when power consumption from the grid is low and that may not be the same time every day so that could be the reason it is not happening very regularly.

What do you think? :)

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Sounds plausible

[WalkGood]

I'm wondering if a small computer battery backup (Uninterrupted Power Supply or UPS) with true voltage regulation will help your problem? These units "clean" the power and provide true 120volts. You would not need a very large unit either..... the smallest one with voltage regulation would work power-wise.

However if what is happening is some kind of "signal" being transmitted over the power lines I'm not sure if that would be blocked by a UPS.

[Waterit]

Okay, I spoke with the Electrician after faxing him with information about the problem. I thought a fax was best rather than a long phone conversation. He too was unfamiliar with such a problem although he was suspicious that it only ever occurred at night.

He suspects it could have something to do with the power supply. In Australia and probably in the U.S. too, domestic power usually have two tariff rates on electrical power (1) Domestic and (2) Controlled Supply often referred to as Off Peak.

During the evening when power consumption is lower, the power authority sends a signal down the electrical line to switch on Controlled Supply (off peak) appliances such as the hot water system. This way, the home owner saves money as the tariff is lower.

The electrician suspects that the signal is playing havoc with the controller. I suspect he may be correct as it only happens after a program and only at night. When the Controllers are off by rain sensor, there's never a problem.

The Electrician has asked me to record the times when it happens and give him a call so he can visit when it is taking place. A feature of the Controlled Supply (off peak) is that it is activated at a time when power consumption from the grid is low and that may not be the same time every day so that could be the reason it is not happening very regularly.

What do you think? :)

Our electric utility sends their signal on a phone line, sometime overnight. All the "gateway" does is report to them usage patterns so they can produce more reasons for rate hikes.

Sending a signal to turn on/off appliances through the power lines doesn't sound right to me, but with today's technology I suppose anything is possible.

[Kiril]

Sending a signal to turn on/off appliances through the power lines doesn't sound right to me, but with today's technology I suppose anything is possible.

That technology has been around for a good while now. :)

[Mike Leary]

Sending a signal to turn on/off appliances through the power lines doesn't sound right to me, but with today's technology I suppose anything is possible.

Where can I buy one? We've got some slow pays; this could help.