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Whitey4
05-15-2008, 12:30 AM
Idiots.... i sent them an email asking if Acclaim can be tank mixed with calcium acid methanearsonate..... which happens to be the AI in Ortho's "Crabgrass Killer for Lawns". Don't ask about the Ortho.... I got it for no cost... so anyways, I get this response:

Hello John,

According to the Acclaim label:

Broadleaf herbicides such as 2,4-D or MCPP may reduce the effectiveness
of Acclaim Extra Herbicide. Do not apply Acclaim Extra
within 21 days following a 2,4-D or MCPP application, or 5 days
before a 2,4-D or MCPP application.

We do not recommend a tankmixture of the two formulations. If you have additional questions please, please let us know.

Sincerely,

Vernon Miles
Product Support
Bayer Environmental Science
(800) 331-2867


I TOLD them what the Ortho product was, gave them the AI, and this is what they send back to me, 3 days after my email!

The ortho is labeled for dallasgrass, and while it's early for it here (we do get some) I have a cheap (free) supply of this stuff.... would be nice if I could use it successfully... any suggestions? What do you folks use for a "general purpose" grassy weed killer? I went with Acclaim based on my Lesco rep's recommendation.... mistake? I've got lawns with quack and goose grass.... would like to settle on one tank mix for grassy weeds, if possible. TIA....

tremor
05-15-2008, 12:46 AM
Vernon is correct about the antagonism between Acclaim & Phenoxy herbicides. However that said, many folks do tank mix.

It's too bad Quinclorac will never registered NY. We still sell a lot of Trimec Plus in NY for this reason.

Whitey4
05-15-2008, 01:15 AM
Vernon is correct about the antagonism between Acclaim & Phenoxy herbicides. However that said, many folks do tank mix.

It's too bad Quinclorac will never registered NY. We still sell a lot of Trimec Plus in NY for this reason.

Geeze... is NO ONE reading what I asked? I can READ! I have an Acclaim label! I already KNOW all about how incompatable it is with broadleaf herbicides! Is calcium acid methanearsonate a broadleaf herbicide? NOOOOOOO! :dizzy:

whoopassonthebluegrass
05-15-2008, 01:50 AM
Geeze... is NO ONE reading what I asked? I can READ! I have an Acclaim label! I already KNOW all about how incompatable it is with broadleaf herbicides! Is calcium acid methanearsonate a broadleaf herbicide? NOOOOOOO! :dizzy:

And you actually think your email was fielded by someone other than a pencil pushing, envelope licking, phone answering nobody??

ted putnam
05-15-2008, 02:10 AM
Geeze... is NO ONE reading what I asked? I can READ! I have an Acclaim label! I already KNOW all about how incompatable it is with broadleaf herbicides! Is calcium acid methanearsonate a broadleaf herbicide? NOOOOOOO! :dizzy:

They put their lead chemical engineer on your question as soon as they got it. He assembled a team of experts to spend overtime hours in a conference room "brainstorming" your question so they could get you, the valued customer the most complete, concise answer in the timliest fashion(3 days) and the answer you got had nothing to do with your question which was, How is Acclaim's comatibility with a known grassy weed herbicide. What a bunch of Numbnuts!

greendoctor
05-15-2008, 04:27 AM
Vernon is correct about the antagonism between Acclaim & Phenoxy herbicides. However that said, many folks do tank mix.

It's too bad Quinclorac will never registered NY. We still sell a lot of Trimec Plus in NY for this reason.

Quinclorac is also never going to be registered in Hawaii either. Neither is sulfentrazone(Dismiss). Between the golf courses, sod farms, homeowners and landscapers, hundreds of gallons of MSMA, be it in Trimec Plus or 6 lb MSMA are used every year. The DOA's rationale is quinclorac and sulfentrazone have the characteristics of a ground water pollutant. I fail to see how so much arsenic is any healthier. At least those two chemicals are organic compounds that eventually decompose. Arsenic is forever.

PHS
05-15-2008, 09:55 AM
Whitey, It's a CYA thing. Nobody is going to stick their neck out and say sure go ahead and use it without any direct research backing up that recommendation. Especially so when it's a competitors product. The other question that comes to mind is whether the Ortho label specifically OK's tank mixing with other products? Homeowner labels usually don't.

Saw you bought a Quick 32 a while back, how's that working? I recently bought a used 36 and after a little TLC I'm pretty happy with it especially for the price.

Whitey4
05-15-2008, 10:33 AM
Whitey, It's a CYA thing. Nobody is going to stick their neck out and say sure go ahead and use it without any direct research backing up that recommendation. Especially so when it's a competitors product. The other question that comes to mind is whether the Ortho label specifically OK's tank mixing with other products? Homeowner labels usually don't.

Saw you bought a Quick 32 a while back, how's that working? I recently bought a used 36 and after a little TLC I'm pretty happy with it especially for the price.

I will test spray this mix in my own yard and see how it goes. They do however go into some detail both on the label and elsewhere about how to mix Acclaim with Fusilade, which is not a Bayer product.

The Quick is a nice machine, especially for the money, but it isn't perfect. The deck tends to clog too easilly when mulching, but this is heavy spring growth too... on the lawns I fert, it's fine, but on the ones with too much N down on them, it's a problem. LOL... that is a total of one Tru-Green customer. I kept them on their promise to use me for apps next year, but I have them on a 5 day cut schedule now. I've also gotten a apple tree anti-fruiting GH app from them, mulch, and ither profitable stuff.

Back on the Quick, the reverse lever handle broke, and I have to watch out not to scald in sidewalk border areas. That is a fixed deck problem really, but the cut and striping is good. I have too many small gates to have gone with a 36. Put in 14 hours yesterday, so I'm going out a bit late today. Almost time for round 2 here...

PHS
05-15-2008, 10:56 AM
The Quick is a nice machine, especially for the money, but it isn't perfect.

I agree. I happily live with it's shortcomings because it's the best machine that fit my weight/size restrictions (limited trailer space). The 36 fits all but one of my gates but just barely.

lilmarvin4064
05-15-2008, 11:42 AM
definitely do a jar test. Last year I tried to mix a few grassy cides, MSMA + Drive + Acclaim and had some precipitation. I've mixed Acclaim + Drive with no problems, so it was probably the MSMA. MSMA doesn't like to mix with many others. I don't know about the CMA though, I don't have any experience with that.

Whitey4
05-15-2008, 09:14 PM
Thanks lilmarvin....

I got this today, a rather rapid response to a somewhat terse reply from me to both the sender, and the the general customer service email address for Bayer....

Hello John,

Sorry, I didn't mean to insult your intelligence here. According to the Acclaim Extra Product Manager, he really doesn't recommend tank mixing with Acclaim because in so many cases they see antagonism to Acclaim. I know that we are taking the conservative approach, but we just don't have the data to support a tankmixing recommendation in this case. Please let us know if we can assist you further.

Sincerely,

Vernon Miles
Product Support
Bayer Environmental Science
(800) 331-2867


Now, this response would have been fine, if it were the first one... I think I rattled the cage at Bayer...LOL... oh well. I find it a little suprising they don't have more base line data for mixing Acclaim, as it is not an "all in one" grassy weed killer, and one that likely requires at least 2 apps to be effective, from what I have read and heard. They obviously know this, as they do have data for tank mixing with Fusilade.

I think I will turn my backyard into a test bed.... and report my findings to the Cornell extension! I may be a newly born herbicide researcher! :weightlifter:

RigglePLC
05-15-2008, 09:46 PM
Don't plan on any effect on quackgrass. And he is right, do a jar test first as MSMA does not mix well with some products. Especially the concentrate. Another option is two hand sprayers, one for MSMA and the second for Acclaim. The one qt size works well for this when spot spraying. In my experience I did not have good results with MSMA, and it kept burning the lawns. Not recommended on fine fescue. Not if grass is a little dry. Must be above 80 but not above 85. Waiting to hear your results in your backyard. I prefer Acclaim with surfactant, (maximum rate) and second ap if needed.

Whitey4
05-15-2008, 10:38 PM
Don't plan on any effect on quackgrass. And he is right, do a jar test first as MSMA does not mix well with some products. Especially the concentrate. Another option is two hand sprayers, one for MSMA and the second for Acclaim. The one qt size works well for this when spot spraying. In my experience I did not have good results with MSMA, and it kept burning the lawns. Not recommended on fine fescue. Not if grass is a little dry. Must be above 80 but not above 85. Waiting to hear your results in your backyard. I prefer Acclaim with surfactant, (maximum rate) and second ap if needed.

That sounds like a good approach Riggs, thanks. I am committed to several apps right now... I will play it safe and just use the Acclaim for now... and do some experiments in the yard for future reference and experience. I DID tell each customer that results were not garanteed, so I have some leeway. I told them it's this, or wait and dig it up in the fall and reseed. Since I applied Barricade, that boils it down to these two options. Hedging my bets... I may be new at this, but I have been around the block!

Thanks for the suggestions!