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View Full Version : Demoed a Hustler Super Z today--Wow!!


TomberLawn
05-22-2008, 11:55 PM
I've become friends with Lawnsite member "puppypaws" through PMs and email and today I visited his farm. He offered to let me try out his Hustler Super Z (66" Kohler 28hp EFI) and he'd try out my Ferris IS1500 (48" Kaw 21hp). These are not comparable mowers as far as size and power, but that's what we had to swap with each other for an hour or two.

The Hustler Super Z is amazing. I didn't really think you could mow grass at 15 mph and be comfortable and get a clean cut. The Hustler does it. It's more comfortable to operate than my Ferris. The Flex Forks and Flex suspension seat combined with SmoothTrak steering makes for a very enjoyable machine. I couldn't believe how it felt like the mower just floated over the ground. I asked Mr. Reid if the mower handled that well from day one or if it had loosened up some in 350 hrs of operation and he said it had always been that easy to handle.

The cut quality is excellent. I'm not sure what type of grass we were cutting, but it was in decent shape. It wasn't manicured, but it wasn't a weedy field. I would expect a few straggling weeds, especially cutting at 15 mph, but there were none. The XR-7 deck with Fusion blades leaves a flawless cut at any speed.

The engine on his mower is the 28hp Kohler EFI. It handled the grass well and sped up hills without bogging much. In really heavy grass, the RPMs did drop off a little bit more than I would have liked, but the cut quality was still just as good. I think 30-32hp would really be great on a mower this size, but the 28 gets the job done. Being EFI, there is no choke and the engine cranks instantly. I asked Mr. Reid what the fuel economy was like and he said he had tested it and it came to .93 gallons per hour. Considering you can mow 7+ acres of open land in that hour, that is fabulous.

Overall, I was very impressed with the Hustler Super Z. Amazing speed, comfortable ride and handling, and good fuel economy with enough power to get the job done. I want one!!!

TomberLawn
05-23-2008, 12:13 AM
I just played with some numbers to see how much more efficient a Hustler 60" EFI would be over a slower, carb mower. Here are some theoretical numbers for comparison.

12mph 60", 80% efficiency, 1.1gph = 5.289 acres/gallon

15mph 60", 80% efficiency, .9gph = 7.8 acres/gallon

The Hustler cuts 2.5 acres more per gallon of fuel. Of course, real world conditions won't be this ideal, but this is a point of comparison.

BryceBentleyLCS
05-23-2008, 12:19 AM
Hustlers are great machines I am glade you enjoyed it. I have a 60" Super Z and it is the best mower that I have owned.. and I have own Scag, Dixie, and J.D. :usflag:

tras
05-23-2008, 12:47 AM
I just bought a new Exmark but i may be picking up some Hustlers in the near future.

Baldwinslawnservice
05-23-2008, 12:57 AM
I feel the same way about my super z, it is by far the baddest mower I have ever owned or operated. I have Scag,JD,and Exmark, and I am sure the super z would eat all of them alive and keep on cuttin!! I just got it back from a hydro replacement at 750hrs,and have noticed an extreme increase in productivity with it back on the force. I accually called and priced another new one to replace that shatty JD 757, Oh by the way mine is a 66" with a 30hp kohler. One grass cuttin bad a** machine, GO GET ONE!!!!!:weightlifter:

puppypaws
05-23-2008, 08:53 AM
I've become friends with Lawnsite member "puppypaws" through PMs and email and today I visited his farm. He offered to let me try out his Hustler Super Z (66" Kohler 28hp EFI) and he'd try out my Ferris IS1500 (48" Kaw 21hp). These are not comparable mowers as far as size and power, but that's what we had to swap with each other for an hour or two.

The Hustler Super Z is amazing. I didn't really think you could mow grass at 15 mph and be comfortable and get a clean cut. The Hustler does it. It's more comfortable to operate than my Ferris. The Flex Forks and Flex suspension seat combined with SmoothTrak steering makes for a very enjoyable machine. I couldn't believe how it felt like the mower just floated over the ground. I asked Mr. Reid if the mower handled that well from day one or if it had loosened up some in 350 hrs of operation and he said it had always been that easy to handle.

The cut quality is excellent. I'm not sure what type of grass we were cutting, but it was in decent shape. It wasn't manicured, but it wasn't a weedy field. I would expect a few straggling weeds, especially cutting at 15 mph, but there were none. The XR-7 deck with Fusion blades leaves a flawless cut at any speed.

Overall, I was very impressed with the Hustler Super Z. Amazing speed, comfortable ride and handling, and good fuel economy with enough power to get the job done. I want one!!!

I know the Ferris people don't want to hear this, but it is only fact. For the first time since I can remember my lower back was hurting yesterday afternoon after operating your Ferris. I actually though I was going to have prolonged pain, but this morning it feels fine. I went out an cut the 3/4 mile of road; I showed you that I cut every week late yesterday afternoon, after I finished the pain was no longer noticeable.

Now believe me, I am not saying the way my Super Z is set up not only keeps my back from hurting but took the pain away the Ferris put in. I actually think it is the amount of Omega 3; I consume each day and just going back out and riding the mower loosened it up. Normally lower back pain does not leave that easily.

I am very glad you stopped by, you are an exceptional young man that has a very good head on his shoulders. I had already pegged you as being very intelligent that is why I asked about your studies and major in college. When you said you were a junior at Wingate University majoring in marketing and had only made two B's since starting school and was carrying a 3.8 GPA, I knew my assumption of you was correct.

Now that each of us has been on the Ferris and Hustler; I feel assured you will confirm the Hustler rides, operates, cuts better and is much more productive than a Ferris mower. Like I was telling you after we cut the amount of grass we did in an hour, and you said it would have taken me 1/2 of a day to cut that much grass and the Hustler cut the majority.

We are not comparing your size mower to the size of mine in productivity, but I believe you can easily see the comparable sized Ferris cutting with the Super Z could not be nearly as productive. You remember, I told you speed is what makes the most difference in productivity, but if you do not have a mower that rides, handles and gives a good cut, all the extra speed is worthless.

You cut areas with the Super Z at 15 mph that you could hardly stand the ride of another brand of mower at 10 mph. I told you I ran a Bad Boy Lightening for 30 hrs. in the same areas and it would cut at 14 mph. We put them side by side and the Super Z would pull away slowly in a straight run and the ride was better than your Ferris. With that being said I feel assured the bigger, heavier Ferris will ride better than your lighter model. I don't believe the coil spring suspension will ever ride as smooth as a mower with torsion rubber suspension, as a matter of fact I know it can't because the torsion rubber will absorb more shock. This is the exact reason torsion rubber is run on tractor trailer truck suspensions and not springs.

Chad really gave us what I thought was a good price on the Super Z, he told me later he had sold over 200 Hustlers this year.

PEVO
05-23-2008, 10:38 AM
Wow. A whole Day & no Hustler Haters have chimed in yet!

Lazer_Z
05-23-2008, 11:03 AM
I'm not a hater, but I have a question. Who among those of you commercial cutters on here use their Hustler's to it's full extent like puppypaws?

PEVO
05-23-2008, 11:54 AM
I'm not a hater, but I have a question. Who among those of you commercial cutters on here use their Hustler's to it's full extent like puppypaws?

I'm just a HO with alot of grass, I cut 8+/- acres every 2 weeks. I however don't cut quite as low as puppypaws & i would leave stringers when cutting at high speed. I'm expermenting with different blades on my 04(old style deck) Med. lift fusions... for me didn't quite do the trick. I'm currently trying out scag 3in notched Hi-lifts. It sounds like a jet engine under the deck now.
These hi-lifts really stand up the grass & give a excellent cut. But these hi-lifts also drag down my 28efi quite a bit in very heavy wet grass. When it dries out farther into the summer, i'l try some Hi-lift gators & see how they do. 75% of what i cut is cattle pasture land(no more cattle) & it can get very rough since i don't have flex forks, but i do have the suspension seat. I cut at 75-80% throttle mostly. But you can bet whenever i can, i go WOT.

Happy Frog
05-23-2008, 12:51 PM
I use my Lightning with mulch kit at full speed most of the time and it leaves a great cut.
The land I mow has a very sandy soil with many slopes and lots of bare spots and holes eroded by storm rain. There are also a bunch of walking paths partially covered with loose gravel and a mix of grass and weed I have to mow over. :cry:
This makes a very rough surface to ride and I know I couldn't do it with any other mower at the speed I go. Takes me forever to sharpen my blades after each cut (2.5 hours of mowing). At least 2" of the cutting edge near the tips of each blade is completely rounded by the abrasion from the sand.
I thought of taking the mulch kit off but I'm too scared to throw gravel everywhere...
Apart from a Bad Boy, I'd probably go with a Super Z for this job. Can't think of anything else to get this done...

gravedigger5
05-23-2008, 01:13 PM
You guys are bragging about the flex forks and I believe you when you say they are more comfortable than the ferris suspension, but what happens when the husler suspension flexes. My ferris the deck stays at the same height due to their linkage setup. I would be scared the flex fork might scalp easier than the ferris. Don't bash me to hard for owning a ferris. I really like mine but just can't get that quality cut at speed, especially in heavier grass. I have tried different blades and adjusting the deck pitch. Am really contiplating demoing a Hustler super z soon to compare it against my ferris.

puppypaws
05-23-2008, 02:19 PM
You guys are bragging about the flex forks and I believe you when you say they are more comfortable than the ferris suspension, but what happens when the husler suspension flexes. My ferris the deck stays at the same height due to their linkage setup. I would be scared the flex fork might scalp easier than the ferris. Don't bash me to hard for owning a ferris. I really like mine but just can't get that quality cut at speed, especially in heavier grass. I have tried different blades and adjusting the deck pitch. Am really contiplating demoing a Hustler super z soon to compare it against my ferris.

I will try to explain this, and I have experienced both. The first set of flex forks I owned became fatigued and I immediately noticed a difference in cut at 150 hrs. I heard people speaking of seeing circles when they would stop to turn around, but I had never seen this. This started happening and I knew immediately what was going on, the torsion rubber had weakened slightly.

When I would stop and turn around fast like I do anyway it would cause the front of the mower to bow down just a little. Then I started to notice when I was on a slope where the mower weight shifted to the low side the grass was cut lower on the side down hill. This had gradually slipped up on me until it got bad enough for me to notice a difference in the cut quality. I got the first an only set of flex forks my dealer had delivered when they were first introduced. I really don't know why he only received one set because after he put mine on, they started selling like crazy.

We talked about this on LawnSite, with my dealer and Hustler. My dealer actually sent mine back to Hustler, they said there was nothing wrong, but I know for a fact they had changed. When they put the new set on it changed the mower entirely. I had forgotten just how good it did ride and operate when they were new. I heard other people talk about seeing this happen and then again others said theirs never changed. I fully believe all the rubber is not exactly the same strength, the ones that now have 200 hrs. seem not to have changed. Every manufacture will tell you their product is all made to the exact same specifications but we all know this is not necessarily true, if this were true there would never be a lemon vehicle.

The torsion rubber in the flex forks and the flex seat has to be strong, this is what regulates the amount of up and down motion in the flex forks and the back and forth motion in the flex seat. There is very little up and down motion with the flex forks unless you hit a very bad hole or high spot. The torsion rubber takes the vibration out as well as keeping the front end stable, it only flexes enough to make the ride smoother but not enough to tell the difference in cut height. I weigh 210 lbs. an can stand on the front rail while attempting to move the flex forks up and down but will not make the wheel move down enough to hardly notice. I stood up on it for Andy showing him how they work but could not really move it enough for him to see. The flex seat is another impressive device, I showed Andy how it would rock back and forth but it also takes more than you would believe to make it move. This makes a tremendous difference when you hit a rough place and your back bangs against the seat really hard, the seat gives with your weight to take what I call back slap out that you would get with a suspension seat without the flex base.

Andy will be more than glad to tell you how well it works and how good the cut is with absolutely no scalping or changing of cut height. This is why I like for other people that cannot be called bias to operate the mower an see the differences for themselves. People such as yourselves want to hear opinions from someone other than the owner, which has a tendency to think more of his machine than someone else may.

TomberLawn
05-23-2008, 03:43 PM
You guys are bragging about the flex forks and I believe you when you say they are more comfortable than the ferris suspension, but what happens when the husler suspension flexes. My ferris the deck stays at the same height due to their linkage setup. I would be scared the flex fork might scalp easier than the ferris. Don't bash me to hard for owning a ferris. I really like mine but just can't get that quality cut at speed, especially in heavier grass. I have tried different blades and adjusting the deck pitch. Am really contiplating demoing a Hustler super z soon to compare it against my ferris.

Demo the Hustler!!! If I had demoed a Hustler last year, I might not have a Ferris now, even though the dealer and I are friends.

I, too, was wondering how the deck height would be affected by the flex forks. In all reality, the mower is going so fast and the flex forks are so strong that you can't really see them moving. They absorb the shock and bounce of bumps, but don't let the mower frame dip down. I can tell you that I mowed some rough ground and the grass was perfectly even.

The Ferris 1500 does not have a suspended deck like the larger models. I have noticed on a couple of yards that if I mow at full speed over rough areas, not only does it not ride as smooth as the Hustler, but the grass is "bumpy" looking. It's a little hard to explain, but basically the reaction time of the springs and shocks get out of sync with the bumps in the yard. When the rear shocks compress on a bump, the back of the deck dips down and creates a low spot. Then, when the shocks expand back to normal, the deck rises and creates a high spot. There's really no way to avoid this other than slowing down. On the larger Ferris models, the deck is linked to the suspension, so this is not as much of an issue. I think the reaction time of the shocks may still be slower than the shock absorption of the Flex torsion rubber.

KevinACrider
05-23-2008, 03:59 PM
This thread makes me feel even better that I've chosen Hustler as my choice of brand for my first ZTR. Now just to find someone who finances less than perfect credit and does trade-in's.

Also, I'm looking at the FasTrak SuperDuty, not the Super Z so my thoughts could be skewed.

JB1
05-23-2008, 04:16 PM
Go Yellow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

puppypaws
05-23-2008, 10:00 PM
This thread makes me feel even better that I've chosen Hustler as my choice of brand for my first ZTR.

Also, I'm looking at the FasTrak SuperDuty, not the Super Z so my thoughts could be skewed.

I talked with a friend that mows a little on the side and he has been well pleased with his FasTrak Super Duty. My dealer says it has been a good seller and feedback has been very positive from the owners.

KevinACrider
05-23-2008, 10:04 PM
Good. The one I looked at looked real nice and looked like a commercial mower. I'm going to go back and drive it a little, see how it handles and what not. They will have to finance without personal guarantee though and that seems to be my downfall. I'm an LLC, why in the hell would I put my own name on something? Sometimes these finance companies boggle my mind. Oh well.

Frue
05-23-2008, 10:29 PM
I have also demoed a hustler the only thing I was impressed with was the speed. The faster you went the more of a mess it made. I have a ferris and It is very fast. I like my ferris better than the hustler. The ride of the ferris is with out a doubt the best ride on the market.....

puppypaws
05-23-2008, 10:56 PM
I have also demoed a hustler the only thing I was impressed with was the speed. The faster you went the more of a mess it made. I have a ferris and It is very fast. I like my ferris better than the hustler. The ride of the ferris is with out a doubt the best ride on the market.....

Isn't this interesting, here is a man that owns a new Ferris starting this thread and he says these words.

QUOTE:

The Hustler Super Z is amazing. I didn't really think you could mow grass at 15mph and be comfortable and get a clean cut. The Hustler does it. It's more comfortable to operate than my Ferris.

Now, you are saying the Ferris has the best ride on the market, yet there is a man that owns a new Ferris which says my Hustler Super Z rides better, cuts better, and is much more productive. Since you have not operated a Super Z set up the way mine is you cannot back up your statement, so this means it is your guess the Ferris has the better ride.

We have a man that has operated my Super Z set up differently than the one you demoed which also owns a Ferris just as you do. Now since he has operated both mowers an stated the Super Z definitely rides better, cuts better and out performs the Ferris in all categories, which person would you give the most credibility?

KevinACrider
05-23-2008, 11:00 PM
Isn't this interesting, here is a man that owns a new Ferris starting this thread and he says these words.

QUOTE:

The Hustler Super Z is amazing. I didn't really think you could mow grass at 15mph and be comfortable and get a clean cut. The Hustler does it. It's more comfortable to operate than my Ferris.

Now, you are saying the Ferris has the best ride on the market, yet there is a man that owns a new Ferris which says my Hustler Super Z rides better, cuts better, and is much more productive. Since you have not operated a Super Z set up the way mine is you cannot back up your statement, so this means it is your guess the Ferris has the better ride.

We have a man that has operated my Super Z set up differently than the one you demoed which also owns a Ferris just as you do. Now since he has operated both mowers an stated the Super Z definitely rides better, cuts better and out performs the Ferris in all categories, which person would you give the most credibility?

There's no reasoning with a fanboy. Let him have his opinion.

milo
05-23-2008, 11:05 PM
i think the reason the super z is one of the best out there now is because its like the newest designed mower to date. scag, exmark, bob cat, dixie chopper and the rest all have like same design for many years with only little changes, hustlers super z is the most modern setup out there. i know the saying if its not broke dont fix it but if you want to be the best you got to redesign as technology goes forward if you want to be the best....
my opinon best
1. hustler
2. scag, exmark
3. dixie chopper, bobcat,

worst
cub tank
gravely.

grasskicker71
05-23-2008, 11:07 PM
I to went and demoed Puppypaws mower last fall.If I remember correctly I mowed 1.5 acres in 6 or 7 minutes.Needless to say I got a super z 27/60" now.Flex forks are great, haven't had any problems out of them yet.All I can say is find someone that will let you ride their mower with them and you will buy them.I had a friend that has a Bobcat ride mine about 50 feet. He stopped got off and said,"I can't ride it anymore I'll have to have one".Said his mower would knock his teeth out it was so rough.It feels odd to mow at 15mph and turn around and see a clean cut.You can't use the speed on every yard though due to obstacles and grass thickness.Its there when you want it though.If your a solo guy definitely demo a super!!!

puppypaws
05-23-2008, 11:09 PM
There's no reasoning with a fanboy. Let him have his opinion.

I'm to old to know some of this newer generation lingo, what is a fanboy?

TLS
05-23-2008, 11:09 PM
Milo,

IIRC, Hustler has been the same for quite a few years. The only changes are the XR-7 Deck in '06. The frame was slightly lengthened for this change. Other than that, under the seat, they are the same. Very well designed ZTR. Good balance, low center of gravity, well placed parts, etc.

KevinACrider
05-23-2008, 11:11 PM
I'm to old to know some of this newer generation lingo, what is a fanboy?

Basically someone who is obsessed with a certain brand, team, design, anything really. They will shut down all negatives about it and only praise that one. In this case, a Ferris fanboy will not listen to reason or look at facts even. They just basically say Ferris rocks and carry on their way.

puppypaws
05-23-2008, 11:13 PM
Basically someone who is obsessed with a certain brand, team, design, anything really. They will shut down all negatives about it and only praise that one. In this case, a Ferris fanboy will not listen to reason or look at facts even. They just basically say Ferris rocks and carry on their way.

That fanboy through me, but I understand where you are coming from now!

I use to sell Turkeys to Wampler Longacre in your home town, now Pilgrim Pride owns the facilities.

milo
05-23-2008, 11:14 PM
Milo,

IIRC, Hustler has been the same for quite a few years. The only changes are the XR-7 Deck in '06. The frame was slightly lengthened for this change. Other than that, under the seat, they are the same. Very well designed ZTR. Good balance, low center of gravity, well placed parts, etc.

yea the same for quite a few years but not as long as scags turf tiger or lazer z or dixie chopper designs its a way newer design than the other brands

KevinACrider
05-23-2008, 11:18 PM
What are the payments running on these SuperZ's? Just average figures...

puppypaws
05-23-2008, 11:24 PM
What are the payments running on these SuperZ's? Just average figures...

I don't know but my dealer had a price of $8999.00 on a 66" Super Z with the 28 efi. I thought that sounded like a good price with the way everything else has gone up.

Hustler extended this promotion through June of this year.

No Monthly Payments for 6 Months & No Interest If Paid Within 6 Months* (Valid on purchases of $1 or more on ALL NEW HUSTLER EQUIPMENT made August 1 to December 31, 2007 when you use your Hustler Turf credit card.) A $75 promo fee applies. Reduced 1.90% APR, 3% repayment applies.

* Valid on New Hustler Units of $1 or more on a Hustler Turf account. On promo purchase, no monthly payments required & no finance charges assessed if promo purchase paid in full in 6 months. If not paid, Finance Charges will be assessed from purchase date at a reduced APR of 1.90% & repayment of promo will be 3% until paid in full. In addition, (1) any minimum monthly payments on account must be paid when due, and (2) account balance may not exceed credit limit. Otherwise, promo may be terminated and standard terms apply. Standard terms apply to non-promo purchases, optional charges & existing accounts. As of 7/27/07, variable APR 24.05% & on all accounts in default, 28.99%. The promo fee constitutes a Finance Charge, which will be added to the promotional purchase balance. Minimum Finance Charge $1.50. Subject to approval by GE Money Bank

KevinACrider
05-23-2008, 11:25 PM
That fanboy through me, but I understand where you are coming from now!

I use to sell Turkeys to Wampler Longacre in your home town, now Pilgrim Pride owns the facilities.

I never heard of Wampler Longacre or Pilgrim Pride. What are they?

TLS
05-23-2008, 11:30 PM
I never heard of Wampler Longacre or Pilgrim Pride. What are they?
Puppy,

They have a plant not far from me. Franconia, PA.

puppypaws
05-23-2008, 11:31 PM
I never heard of Wampler Longacre or Pilgrim Pride. What are they?

Poultry processing companies. Wampler was bought by Pilgrim Pride and they are now the largest chicken producer in the world.

I know you see farmers with poultry houses in your area and I was thinking there was a processing plant in Harrisburg, PA.

MJB
05-24-2008, 12:47 AM
I feel the same way about my super z, it is by far the baddest mower I have ever owned or operated. I have Scag,JD,and Exmark, and I am sure the super z would eat all of them alive and keep on cuttin!! I just got it back from a hydro replacement at 750hrs,and have noticed an extreme increase in productivity with it back on the force. I accually called and priced another new one to replace that shatty JD 757, Oh by the way mine is a 66" with a 30hp kohler. One grass cuttin bad a** machine, GO GET ONE!!!!!:weightlifter:


What year is your Super Z? I have the same mower with just under 700 hrs my w motors went out at 380 roughly. But I wanted to know if you have had any issues with your exhaust system ? Mine was totally replaced under warranty last yr the vibration just broke the header pipe right in front of the muffler. Its a nice machine but cuts like crap compared to my other mowers mine is a 2006.

TomberLawn
05-24-2008, 07:45 AM
In all fairness about the ride quality of Ferris vs. Hustler, my Ferris is one of the smallest and doesn't have the full 4-wheel suspension like the larger models. I demoed a 3100 last year and it rode better than mine, but it only goes 12 mph. The Hustler goes 15 and rides just as good or better than the 3100 I drove last year. The flex seat makes the ride even more comfortable, because the seat is not rigidly attached, but it reclines slightly. This makes a big difference in operator comfort. Mr. Reid and I would like to demo a 3100 or larger Ferris and compare that to the Hustler. I know the dealer, so we might be able to set that up.

By the way, Mr. Reid is not a "fanboy" and neither am I. We both like to analyze different brands of equipment and decide which is the best. Once you find that best product, you run it and love it. If the manufacturer of that product goes cheap in the future, you have to find something else. My dad has had John Deere tractors and now we have a Case IH. I used to bleed green, but Deere went cheap, so we had to look for something else that had quality and value.

puppypaws
05-24-2008, 07:48 AM
What year is your Super Z? I have the same mower with just under 700 hrs my w motors went out at 380 roughly. But I wanted to know if you have had any issues with your exhaust system ? Mine was totally replaced under warranty last yr the vibration just broke the header pipe right in front of the muffler. Its a nice machine but cuts like crap compared to my other mowers mine is a 2006.

It amazes me the difference there can be in supposedly the same machine. I've had two people that post in this forum which own and operate different mowers say my mower will cut at 15 mph (which most people can't comprehend) and be perfectly smooth with nothing left standing.

Now you are saying (and I do not doubt your word) your 2006 year model which is the same as mine cuts like crap. When you say "cuts like crap", does this mean it leaves uncut grass, or it does not cut smooth?

I cut junk that is 10 times harder to cut than manicured weedless grass and it does a perfect job. I can imagine if I was cutting perfect weedless grass it would be like a knife through hot butter.

Come back in here "TomberLawn" and "grasskicker 71" and reinterate what I just said.

There must be a problem with some Super Z's, I have never experienced.

puppypaws
05-24-2008, 08:02 AM
In all fairness about the ride quality of Ferris vs. Hustler, my Ferris is one of the smallest and doesn't have the full 4-wheel suspension like the larger models. I demoed a 3100 last year and it rode better than mine, but it only goes 12 mph. The Hustler goes 15 and rides just as good or better than the 3100 I drove last year. The flex seat makes the ride even more comfortable, because the seat is not rigidly attached, but it reclines slightly.

This is something that makes a tremendous difference, there is a lot of difference in 12 mph and 15 mph. You can take a mower that rides comparably at 12 mph but if you could move it up to 15 mph it could be totally different ride.

When you are cutting grass at 15 mph everything is completely different, most people have not experienced this. I would say a large number of mowers would not hold up to that speed because it would shake the frame all to pieces, also you could not stand the ride unless you are young and love to ride bucking bulls for competition.

Andy, if you can get it worked out I would definitely like to run the 3100 Ferris or whatever they consider their best made.

bare31
05-24-2008, 09:32 AM
just curiuos but have any of you run the rear discharge deck? I run a scag but the super z sounds like a good mower.

milo
05-24-2008, 10:00 AM
just curiuos but have any of you run the rear discharge deck? I run a scag but the super z sounds like a good mower.
never did yet but i thought scag was best but hustler super z is better

mowtivated lawn Care
05-24-2008, 10:00 AM
I love mine and it does an excellent job with what ever I put the test to even wheelies. 60'' with a 30HP Koeler Command Pro. I wish I could get better gas mileage but sure we all wished that with any machine. Only have 100 hrs on it and have had no major issues thusfar. One thing is my right gas tank developed a pin hole size in the top of the tank. I think it is a defect because of the location and it is in this pre drilled indentation from the factor. The left tank has the same but has no leak so that supports my theory I hope.

MJB
05-24-2008, 10:36 AM
I love mine and it does an excellent job with what ever I put the test to even wheelies. 60'' with a 30HP Koeler Command Pro. I wish I could get better gas mileage but sure we all wished that with any machine. Only have 100 hrs on it and have had no major issues thusfar. One thing is my right gas tank developed a pin hole size in the top of the tank. I think it is a defect because of the location and it is in this pre drilled indentation from the factor. The left tank has the same but has no leak so that supports my theory I hope.

My 30hp Kohler gph is getting better my last test with 66" deck mulching was 1.25 gph I used to get 1.4 so maybe it gets better after it's broke in. I also am experimenting with Royal Purple and that might be making the difference. But it's a trade off, saves you gas cost more for the oil. But it protects the engine.

mowtivated lawn Care
05-24-2008, 10:42 AM
What weight do you use when you use the Royal Purple?

MJB
05-24-2008, 11:39 AM
What weight do you use when you use the Royal Purple?

I use 10w30 but I just started using it at 644hrs I'm probably going to run it longer than my normal 100 hrs just to see how it holds up all try 150 hrs per oli change I don't know if 200 would be good or not. The oil probably doesn't break down near as fast as conventional oil.

ProStreetCamaro
05-24-2008, 01:52 PM
It amazes me the difference there can be in supposedly the same machine. I've had two people that post in this forum which own and operate different mowers say my mower will cut at 15 mph (which most people can't comprehend) and be perfectly smooth with nothing left standing.

Now you are saying (and I do not doubt your word) your 2006 year model which is the same as mine cuts like crap. When you say "cuts like crap", does this mean it leaves uncut grass, or it does not cut smooth?

I cut junk that is 10 times harder to cut than manicured weedless grass and it does a perfect job. I can imagine if I was cutting perfect weedless grass it would be like a knife through hot butter.

Come back in here "TomberLawn" and "grasskicker 71" and reinterate what I just said.

There must be a problem with some Super Z's, I have never experienced.



I got in a discussion on the phone with smcunningham about hustler super z's. He was telling me he borrowed his friends for a few days and he didnt like it to much. He said the cut wasnt all that great and he didnt like the way it fans out the grass (or rather doesnt fan it out). He said it discharged everything at the front of the discharge opening and didnt lay it out smooth.


This is just what i have been told from a local person to me that got a few days to try one out.

MJB
05-24-2008, 04:22 PM
I got in a discussion on the phone with smcunningham about hustler super z's. He was telling me he borrowed his friends for a few days and he didnt like it to much. He said the cut wasnt all that great and he didnt like the way it fans out the grass (or rather doesnt fan it out). He said it discharged everything at the front of the discharge opening and didnt lay it out smooth.


This is just what i have been told from a local person to me that got a few days to try one out.

The problem with fine grass like Kentucky bluegrass, fescue and rye mix it just is a lazy grass that we have to cut off at 3.5 inches sometimes 4" and it has a tendency to lay over and that is the weakness of Hustlers deck it doesn't lift it up and cut it clean, even the best of mowers have trouble out here, but Hustler is a long way from perfect for my area. If we were cutting a stiff grass the blades would just go through it like PuppyPaws say his does. I'm looking forward to trying a BB mower to compare with my Exmark Ultracut deck.

Turf Dawg
05-24-2008, 05:08 PM
I demod one two weeks ago and bought one. I got a super 66" 31 kaw with flex forks and susp seat. After trying several, I decided on the Hustler because of the ride, handling and the speed. I can say the it was not the best cutting compaired to some of the others I tried, [ or it might have been because the others I could not cut at the same speed] but for what I need it for this was by far the best choice for me. My Walker gets to cut the prime properties. I was running Grasshoppers and can tell you I knocked off alot of time by getting a Super Z. Everbody has different needs and this met mine to a "T".

MJB
05-24-2008, 06:05 PM
I demod one two weeks ago and bought one. I got a super 66" 31 kaw with flex forks and susp seat. After trying several, I decided on the Hustler because of the ride, handling and the speed. I can say the it was not the best cutting compaired to some of the others I tried, [ or it might have been because the others I could not cut at the same speed] but for what I need it for this was by far the best choice for me. My Walker gets to cut the prime properties. I was running Grasshoppers and can tell you I knocked off alot of time by getting a Super Z. Everbody has different needs and this met mine to a "T".

They are fast aren't they ? I think you got the best engine combo for that mower too. Which Grasshoppers are you comparing it too. I was thinking of demoing the midmount 329 grasshopper like to know how good they are ?

puppypaws
05-24-2008, 06:55 PM
I demod one two weeks ago and bought one. I got a super 66" 31 kaw with flex forks and susp seat. After trying several, I decided on the Hustler because of the ride, handling and the speed. I can say the it was not the best cutting compaired to some of the others I tried, [ or it might have been because the others I could not cut at the same speed] but for what I need it for this was by far the best choice for me. My Walker gets to cut the prime properties. I was running Grasshoppers and can tell you I knocked off alot of time by getting a Super Z. Everbody has different needs and this met mine to a "T".

I also run 8 lbs. of air pressure in all tires, but does the flex forks and flex seat not give you the best ride of any mower you have ever owned? Like I say, it is hard to compare if you have never had a mower that mows at 15 mph.

That is where I hear the problem with the Super Z cut is with the mushy heavy moisture laden grass and trying to cut at 3 1/2" or above. We just don't have that much moisture here and the grass is stiffer bladed, but I also cut weeds that most decks would have a difficult time cutting clean like Dandelions. I cut at 2 3/4" and it cuts everything I cut perfectly at 15 mph. When you put the decks that do cut well like the Exmark UltraCut and move them up in the 15 mph range, I have all ideas they would not look the same as they do cutting at 10 mph.

johnnybravo8802
05-24-2008, 08:36 PM
I had mentioned that I owned a Ferris IS 4000 in 00' and it was a POS-that's true. However, It rode like a cloud but was a 72" with the 31 Daihatsu. I can't vouch for Hustler but I still say that the Ferris is the best riding machine I have ever been on-better than my new Scag and that machine rides good. I think you would have a different opinion of the ride if you tried the bigger machines-I think my mower was pushing 1600 lbs.

puppypaws
05-24-2008, 10:57 PM
I had mentioned that I owned a Ferris IS 4000 in 00' and it was a POS-that's true. However, It rode like a cloud but was a 72" with the 31 Daihatsu. I can't vouch for Hustler but I still say that the Ferris is the best riding machine I have ever been on-better than my new Scag and that machine rides good. I think you would have a different opinion of the ride if you tried the bigger machines-I think my mower was pushing 1600 lbs.

I know the bigger one would have to ride better than the lighter IS 1500, but it would be impossible for it to ride or cut better than my Super Z at 15 mph the way it is set up. 12 mph is the top speed on the bigger Ferris mowers, until you can get it moving 3 mph faster it is hard to compare the ride and cut.

The IS 3100Z with the 61" deck weighs 1325 lbs. and the IS 4500Z with the same deck weighs 1985 lbs. I can't understand why there is so much difference in weight, the 3100 has a 32 Vanguard and the 4500 has the 35 Vanguard. I sure would love to run the IS 3100Z, it is a fine looking machine.

I think "TomberLawn" said his IS 1500Z had the front wheel suspension but not the rear wheel. They all have the torsion rubber mounted A-Frame.

You must not have like the IS 4000 very well, what were some of the things you did not care for?

Turf Dawg
05-24-2008, 11:11 PM
They are fast aren't they ? I think you got the best engine combo for that mower too. Which Grasshoppers are you comparing it too. I was thinking of demoing the midmount 329 grasshopper like to know how good they are ?

I am running a 322d/61 and a 223/52 Grasshoppers. These are both 04 modles and at that time the xr7 and the velocity decks were not out, so I thought they were great. I still think they are both well built and have their place. The trouble I am having is wet grass and sticky weads build up under the deck fast. If you cut nice lawns and not overgrow weady fields they leave a great cut and a nice ride for the speed. I would compare them to the old scag advantage deck. The 329 should be plenty of engine for most things but I feel the decks will still not process the clippings in heavy conditions fast enough. I will add that I have a mulch kit on the 52 and it is great at mulching normal growth and leaves.

johnnybravo8802
05-24-2008, 11:28 PM
As originally posted, I had it in the shop 10 times in 2.5 months. The flywheel came completely off the back of the engine which was the last straw. I finally had to sell it back to the factory. The factory support was piss poor. I bought it thinking that it would last forever and it was built like it should have lasted forever. I never dreamed it would have so many problems. It wouldn't run 15 miles per hour but I could run it wide open across a rough property I used to mow and I could barely feel the bumps. The Exmark I had, I had to literally creep across the same area or I'd end up coming out of the seat. It was awesome!!! I still miss that ride.

puppypaws
05-24-2008, 11:46 PM
As originally posted, I had it in the shop 10 times in 2.5 months. The flywheel came completely off the back of the engine which was the last straw. I finally had to sell it back to the factory. The factory support was piss poor. I bought it thinking that it would last forever and it was built like it should have lasted forever. I never dreamed it would have so many problems. It wouldn't run 15 miles per hour but I could run it wide open across a rough property I used to mow and I could barely feel the bumps. The Exmark I had, I had to literally creep across the same area or I'd end up coming out of the seat. It was awesome!!! I still miss that ride.

I think you got a lemon, but it sounds like you may feel bad about their factory support. You could possibly get a new one and never have a problem, but they have put a bad taste in your mouth having to deal with sorry customer support. You could get a bad mower from any manufacture and they know this but how you are treated is what keeps or loses your business.
I don't know why this is so hard for some of these companies to figure out.

johnnybravo8802
05-24-2008, 11:53 PM
Yea, the fact that the dealer was almost an hour away didn't help either. I was already mad when it would break down and I was worse when I had made the hour drive, especially when I had 4 mexicans in the field waiting for me to get back. I have had two Hustlers and the factory is great with their support, so I wouldn't hesitate about owning another. I bought my first one in 98' when no one knew who they were. I also owned a 3200Z which was their industrial machine at the time-right below the 4600.

gravedigger5
05-25-2008, 12:27 AM
I sure would love to run the IS 3100Z, it is a fine looking machine.

Puppypaws, you are welcome to try mine if you are ever in the St. Louis area. 3100IS with 72" and 32hp Briggs.

tacoma200
05-25-2008, 12:31 AM
I got in a discussion on the phone with smcunningham about hustler super z's. He was telling me he borrowed his friends for a few days and he didnt like it to much. He said the cut wasnt all that great and he didnt like the way it fans out the grass (or rather doesnt fan it out). He said it discharged everything at the front of the discharge opening and didnt lay it out smooth.
.

That is exactly what I found. 90% of the grass came from a stream on the very front of the discharge chute (not fanned or spread).

tacoma200
05-25-2008, 12:37 AM
The problem with fine grass like Kentucky bluegrass, fescue and rye mix it just is a lazy grass that we have to cut off at 3.5 inches sometimes 4" and it has a tendency to lay over and that is the weakness of Hustlers deck it doesn't lift it up and cut it clean, even the best of mowers have trouble out here, but Hustler is a long way from perfect for my area. If we were cutting a stiff grass the blades would just go through it like PuppyPaws say his does. I'm looking forward to trying a BB mower to compare with my Exmark Ultracut deck.

The XR7 seems to be designed for rigid grass or grass that is packed tight enough to stand up while being cut. There is no or very little lift from the XR7 deck though I have heard of some having luck with other brands of high lift blades. That is why it is popular on the South East coast from the Carolina's, to Florida to Texas. It seems to do well in some Northern grasses depending on the turf. I could cut at 15 mph in Bermuda but not in the mixed fescue and native weeds that prevail here. The Super Z drives and handles like a dream so I give credit where credit is due.

MJB
05-25-2008, 12:45 AM
The XR7 seems to be designed for rigid grass or grass that is packed tight enough to stand up while being cut. There is no or very little lift from the XR7 deck though I have heard of some having luck with other brands of high lift blades. That is why it is popular on the South East coast from the Carolina's, to Florida to Texas. It seems to do well in some Northern grasses depending on the turf. I could cut at 15 mph in Bermuda but not in the mixed fescue and native weeds that prevail here. The Super Z drives and handles like a dream so I give credit where credit is due.


Tacoma did you ever demo any of the Bad boy mowers ? If so which one?

gravedigger5
05-25-2008, 12:48 AM
This is what I have been cutting the past day and half. 30 acres of it. Notice the cut quality, not the greatest, but this is 4 week knee high grass. http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109778&d=1211688561

gravedigger5
05-25-2008, 12:51 AM
Thats the stuff I would like to demo a hustler on. What do you guys think. I'm nuts, right?:confused:

puppypaws
05-25-2008, 12:53 AM
This is what I have been cutting the past day and half. 30 acres of it. Notice the cut quality, not the greatest, but this is 4 week knee high grass. http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109778&d=1211688561

For some reason the picture did not come through.

tacoma200
05-25-2008, 12:55 AM
Tacoma did you ever demo any of the Bad boy mowers ? If so which one?

No, I have no idea where the closest dealer is? I've never seen one around here but they drew a big crowd at the Expo a couple of years back. The closest major metropolitan area is 100 miles north so I don't expect to see any dealers for a while. Name recognition will hurt any new dealers in this area. Scag and Grasshopper have been strong holds here for so long. Exmark isn't even that popular here yet.

MJB
05-25-2008, 01:06 AM
No, I have no idea where the closest dealer is? I've never seen one around here but they drew a big crowd at the Expo a couple of years back. The closest major metropolitan area is 100 miles north so I don't expect to see any dealers for a while. Name recognition will hurt any new dealers in this area. Scag and Grasshopper have been strong holds here for so long. Exmark isn't even that popular here yet.

I found several dealers in Kentucky at this website don't know if any are close to you or not. I sure would like to see someone I trust to check out the Lightning series. http://www.badboymowers.com/locations.php/mode/list

I'm holding off buying anything as long as possible with fuel going through the roof. But these mowers are very affordable and attractive as far as design and power options.

gravedigger5
05-25-2008, 01:07 AM
For some reason the picture did not come through.

I don't know why, it came through on my computer. I tried reposting it but won't let me. I will be back out there to finish up tomorrow and will take a few more pictures. Should have finised the job today but it seems to be raining once or twice a day here. Starting to know how the guys out in the northwest feel. We have had alot of rain this spring (wettest on record here, ever) and the past two weeks it has rained some amount almost every day.

Frue
05-25-2008, 07:08 AM
Isn't this interesting, here is a man that owns a new Ferris starting this thread and he says these words.

QUOTE:

The Hustler Super Z is amazing. I didn't really think you could mow grass at 15mph and be comfortable and get a clean cut. The Hustler does it. It's more comfortable to operate than my Ferris.

Now, you are saying the Ferris has the best ride on the market, yet there is a man that owns a new Ferris which says my Hustler Super Z rides better, cuts better, and is much more productive. Since you have not operated a Super Z set up the way mine is you cannot back up your statement, so this means it is your guess the Ferris has the better ride.

We have a man that has operated my Super Z set up differently than the one you demoed which also owns a Ferris just as you do. Now since he has operated both mowers an stated the Super Z definitely rides better, cuts better and out performs the Ferris in all categories, which person would you give the most credibility?

Isnt it interesting he only has a 1500. you have to compare apples to apples.

Frue
05-25-2008, 07:19 AM
Here is how my demo went with the hustler. Fast o yea def. I cut probably 2 acres. well manicured grass. The way it discharged caused clumps and a major mess and it intensified as I pushed the sticks further ahead. ride was ok but when you are used 4 wheel suspention it does not ride well.

Now my ferris does not cut as good as my toro but it sure has a nice ride.

puppypaws
05-25-2008, 07:56 AM
I sure would like to see someone I trust to check out the Lightning series.

Now, I take offense to that statement. You seem to be saying the thirty hours I ran the Lightening through every type cutting we have in this area and reported everything you could imagine a mower having to face is not believable. I even went as far as to hand measure all comparable measurements between the Lightening and Super Z.

Now, saying that, the only information I could give on cut and ride is the type grasses and weeds in this area, with plenty of pictures posted. I compared ride, (which is good) handling, cut of very big, (30" tall grass an weeds) cut of wet grass, cut of dry grass, cut of good grass, cut of any wild grasses and weeds in this area, which we have some that are very bad.

I had the dealer put on the newest torsion rubber suspension (this one had the old springs) and new blades because it had one bent, and I showed pictures of the cut difference due to the bent blade. I put the dealer district manager on the Super Z and I ran the Lightening side by side comparing speed and cut, he was as interested in this comparison as anybody because he sells Scag, Exmark and Toro also.

The gentleman is one of the most honest and knowledgeable zero turn mower people I have ever met or talked with anywhere. This is the statement he made when I asked him to compare all mowers his company sells. He said, "the Exmark will give the most manicured cut, the Scag and Toro were pretty equal in manicured cut but the Scag surpassed them all in overall cutting conditions. The Bad Boy rode better especially with the 14 mph speed than the other mowers but had not quiet gotten to the caliber of the other mowers they sell but was coming on fast. He said the other three were rougher riding with the Scag possibly being the roughest, but a person would not notice much difference.

The gentlemen were very impressed with the Super Z's ride and handling but though (the same as me) it could use more power in certain situations. The Bad Boy and 32 Vanguard never changes sounds in anything normal, dropped a couple hundred rpm's in 30" grass but was unbelievable cutting it.

I will tell you, in Tacoma's cutting situation the Lightening will cut through everything the same as his Scag but will not give as good a cut overall. The Bad Boy Lightening will cut faster and ride much better than the Scag, (according to the dealer rep) and me comparing the ride to my Super Z. This also comes from people I know running Scags for a living saying they ride very rough but will cut anything good, not necessarily great but very acceptable for their clients.

The Bad Boy Lightening is definitely worth the money, especially when you are talking about over 2000.00 difference in a comparable mower.

The only way you will ever know exactly what you need to know about this mower is to operate one in your conditions. With that said, you can always get any mower off the same assembly line that will cut and react differently, how this happens, I really don't understand, but it does.

MJB
05-25-2008, 10:22 AM
Now, I take offense to that statement. You seem to be saying the thirty hours I ran the Lightening through every type cutting we have in this area and reported everything you could imagine a mower having to face is not believable. I even went as far as to hand measure all comparable measurements between the Lightening and Super Z.

Now, saying that, the only information I could give on cut and ride is the type grasses and weeds in this area, with plenty of pictures posted. I compared ride, (which is good) handling, cut of very big, (30" tall grass an weeds) cut of wet grass, cut of dry grass, cut of good grass, cut of any wild grasses and weeds in this area, which we have some that are very bad.

I had the dealer put on the newest torsion rubber suspension (this one had the old springs) and new blades because it had one bent, and I showed pictures of the cut difference due to the bent blade. I put the dealer district manager on the Super Z and I ran the Lightening side by side comparing speed and cut, he was as interested in this comparison as anybody because he sells Scag, Exmark and Toro also.

The gentleman is one of the most honest and knowledgeable zero turn mower people I have ever met or talked with anywhere. This is the statement he made when I asked him to compare all mowers his company sells. He said, "the Exmark will give the most manicured cut, the Scag and Toro were pretty equal in manicured cut but the Scag surpassed them all in overall cutting conditions. The Bad Boy rode better especially with the 14 mph speed than the other mowers but had not quiet gotten to the caliber of the other mowers they sell but was coming on fast. He said the other three were rougher riding with the Scag possibly being the roughest, but a person would not notice much difference.

The gentlemen were very impressed with the Super Z's ride and handling but though (the same as me) it could use more power in certain situations. The Bad Boy and 32 Vanguard never changes sounds in anything normal, dropped a couple hundred rpm's in 30" grass but was unbelievable cutting it.

I will tell you, in Tacoma's cutting situation the Lightening will cut through everything the same as his Scag but will not give as good a cut overall. The Bad Boy Lightening will cut faster and ride much better than the Scag, (according to the dealer rep) and me comparing the ride to my Super Z. This also comes from people I know running Scags for a living saying they ride very rough but will cut anything good, not necessarily great but very acceptable for their clients.

The Bad Boy Lightening is definitely worth the money, especially when you are talking about over 2000.00 difference in a comparable mower.

The only way you will ever know exactly what you need to know about this mower is to operate one in your conditions. With that said, you can always get any mower off the same assembly line that will cut and react differently, how this happens, I really don't understand, but it does.


Puppypaws don't be offended, I'm very forgetful and I saw that Kentucky had 7 dealers now for BB so I was surprised Tacoma had not seen one, plus I know he's not biased like so many are, including myself at times. :waving:
Thanks for the review I have done searches for more reviews of the BB mowers but did not see yours do you know where it is???. I vaguely remember that you were going to demo one but were waiting for them to bring 1 out. I'm also looking at the AOS model. But it looks like I will have to drive 6 hrs 1 way to test one out.
It seems like I'm attracted to it the BB line because I do all my own repairs anyway, and they are easier to work on IMO. As far as Hustler I'm done with anything Hustler. I love the ride but dependability has been getting worse. However I think they've fixed everything on it twice by now so maybe it will get me through the summer.
Last week it was the jumper wire for the clutch that turns the deck on, it broke on me, I replaced it, then the same day I started spewing hydo oil when a line vibrated loose. I wiped up the mess fixed the line and had so much air in the system for the rest of the week it bubbled oil out the cap. I'm still wiping it off between lawns but it's not as bad. My warranty runs out in July i think. Now my deck belt tensioner needs to be replaced. I'm pushing 700 hrs and even though the service is great I can't stay in business with a machine down all the time and the dealer 100 miles away. So I need to find a replacement and all the other brands are far away and have poor dealer support except Bush Hog which I like but the power choices were limited. So I figure if I'm buying from out of town BB gets parts out as fast or faster than everyone else and the cut is decent from everyone I've talked to and much better than Hustlers cut in the PNW, so thats a plus.

Skindog
05-25-2008, 11:00 AM
I have a 2007 SZ that I am seriously thinking of trading for something that cuts better. It leaves stringers (not the infamous uncut strip) more often than not, and I have to cut twice ALOT. I sure expected better performance from such a well built machine.

bart may
05-25-2008, 11:14 AM
If you guys ever get a chance to demo a Lastec do it. Mine is the best most accurate cutting machine I've tried. It is incredibly smooth on rough stuff due too the independant decks and suspension seats. I mow some park areas 5 acres that aren't smooth and that mower glides right over them. The nice thing is how it can cut hills and swells without any deck gouging. Just thought I'd throw that in the mix. It's definatly worth a demo If you have the chance.

gravedigger5
05-25-2008, 12:05 PM
If you guys ever get a chance to demo a Lastec do it. Mine is the best most accurate cutting machine I've tried. It is incredibly smooth on rough stuff due too the independant decks and suspension seats. I mow some park areas 5 acres that aren't smooth and that mower glides right over them. The nice thing is how it can cut hills and swells without any deck gouging. Just thought I'd throw that in the mix. It's definatly worth a demo If you have the chance.

Those are nice machines but how do they do in heavier grass?

MJB
05-25-2008, 12:44 PM
If you guys ever get a chance to demo a Lastec do it. Mine is the best most accurate cutting machine I've tried. It is incredibly smooth on rough stuff due too the independant decks and suspension seats. I mow some park areas 5 acres that aren't smooth and that mower glides right over them. The nice thing is how it can cut hills and swells without any deck gouging. Just thought I'd throw that in the mix. It's definatly worth a demo If you have the chance.

I tried to demo one they are a nice mower, you won't believe this but the closest dealer is also a Toro dealer from 100 miles away. He dropped of a big diesel Lastec for weeks I only used it a little bit because it barely fit on my trailer, I asked for the 61" deck with the 28 kohler efi. They brought it to my house and picked up the diesel and left I asked for a mulcher kit he forgot it said he would send it to me throught the mail. I had a beutiful Lastec sitting in my yard for almost a month I could not use I could not even side discharge because it was set up to rear discharge which on any mower horrible for the lawns we mow. I never did get the kit and after a month they came and picked it up. Have you ever heard of such morons? That was NOT Lastecs fault it was the biggest Toro Dealer in the area that are complete idiots. Good reason to stay away from Toro. So I bought a Hustler instead from a very good dealer. But I wish I could of used the Lastec because your right about the ride very smooth, and the diesel cut was excellent.

Happy Frog
05-25-2008, 01:36 PM
The Lightning will cut as nice as the Scag under the same conditions: same grass, same height and same speed.
At faster speed, the cut quality will not be as good under certain grass conditions.
When comparing mowers, you should aways start from the same cutting conditions first and go from there (not that hard to understand :hammerhead:).

puppypaws
05-25-2008, 01:46 PM
The Lightning will cut as nice as the Scag under the same conditions: same grass, same height and same speed.
At faster speed, the cut quality will not be as good under certain grass conditions.
When comparing mowers, you should aways start from the same cutting conditions first and go from there (not that hard to understand :hammerhead:).

Absolutely correct! You must demo the mower in what you cut, then you must compare speed, handling, ride, ease of maintenance, cut at same speeds, cut at all speeds and which one will be the most productive in your situation. I even take into consideration how much easier it is to get on and off my Super Z, it is much easier than the Bad Boy was.

tacoma200
05-25-2008, 02:14 PM
Since I'm in a rural area dealer support is getting higher on my priority list. Most ZTR's are sold out of farm supply stores, hardware stores, feed stores, etc. We have a few dedicated lawn care shops with in 30-45 minutes drive and I'm fairly sure that I'll stick with one of them for obvious reasons even if I find a better ZTR. Most of the mechanics at these places are clueless. Very frustrating. The Exmark dealer has a 1 1/2 week wait for service right now so I'm having to learn to do most things my self but they are good if you can get in or even get them to answer the phone (one lady said she took 100+ calls a day and she's only one person). They have ZTR's and mowers stacked everywhere. My Scag dealer is smaller and I get more personalized service. I was looking at JD but not since the 800 series started having problems. To be honest the Scag/Exmark combination works for me right now so I'm probably going to stay where I'm at. No way I'm going to take a chance with only 1 ZTR even though I work solo 75% of the time. The first time I went to look at a Hustler they didn't know what an XR7 deck was but I found a dealer in Danville that was great. Too bad the deck didn't do well here, they were some of the best at service.

puppypaws
05-25-2008, 03:00 PM
I have a 2007 SZ that I am seriously thinking of trading for something that cuts better. It leaves stringers (not the infamous uncut strip) more often than not, and I have to cut twice ALOT. I sure expected better performance from such a well built machine.

That is amazing my Super Z never leaves uncut grass even cutting at 15 mph. The young men that post in this forum and ran my Super Z will tell you it leaves no uncut grass or weeds unless a Dandelion gets pushed over with a tire. I cut at 2 3/4" and that is the difference, if I attempted to cut a 3 1/2" the speed would be useless. I cut lower to get more suction, because I am going to mow fast. I want to cut the most grass per gallon of gas possible with my mower and I never need to double cut. You are probably cutting a great deal higher and this is where the stragglers would come into play.

mag360
05-25-2008, 03:41 PM
That is amazing my Super Z never leaves uncut grass even cutting at 15 mph. The young men that post in this forum and ran my Super Z will tell you it leaves no uncut grass or weeds unless a Dandelion gets pushed over with a tire. I cut at 2 3/4" and that is the difference, if I attempted to cut a 3 1/2" the speed would be useless. I cut lower to get more suction, because I am going to mow fast. I want to cut the most grass per gallon of gas possible with my mower and I never need to double cut. You are probably cutting a great deal higher and this is where the stragglers would come into play.

One thing to keep in mind is that most of us who mow commercially need to cut at 3 inches or higher a lot of the time.
I am very curious to see if the 72inch xr7 deck has more lift than the smaller ones---the 31/72 would be a very productive machine.

TomberLawn
05-25-2008, 04:16 PM
I think "TomberLawn" said his IS 1500Z had the front wheel suspension but not the rear wheel. They all have the torsion rubber mounted A-Frame.


Just a slight correction--the front axle pivots up and down, but the rear tires have independent shocks. I think the IS1000Z had independent front, but no rear. The 1500 is basically opposite. A 1000 with a suspension seat would probably actually ride better than a 1500. I would like to try a larger Ferris with full independent suspension and a suspension seat. That should be pretty comfortable, but it still only goes 12mph.

I used to think that 15mph was useless because you couldn't get that fast or slow down and turn without tearing up lawns. I was wrong. Puppypaws' Hustler gets up to speed in seconds and slows down quickly as well. I expected a little bit of sliding as I slowed down at the end of a row, but the machine is heavy enough and the tires wide enough to maintain traction and slow down quickly. The Hustler didn't even spin when I turned uphill on a ditch bank.

tacoma200
05-25-2008, 05:16 PM
One thing to keep in mind is that most of us who mow commercially need to cut at 3 inches or higher a lot of the time.
I am very curious to see if the 72inch xr7 deck has more lift than the smaller ones---the 31/72 would be a very productive machine.

When I had the Super Z it came with the stock medium lift fusions. It needed high lifts very bad but there were none available through Hustler or Oregon. Has this changed? Surely Hustler has seen the need for high lifts by now (at least for certain parts of the country). I cut at 3.5 or so on average, I really need lift.

puppypaws
05-25-2008, 06:14 PM
When I had the Super Z it came with the stock medium lift fusions. It needed high lifts very bad but there were none available through Hustler or Oregon. Has this changed? Surely Hustler has seen the need for high lifts by now (at least for certain parts of the country). I cut at 3.5 or so on average, I really need lift.

I doubt they have, but do not know this. If I was Hustler, I would be bringing a mower to you and finding out why my machine will not cut in your situation. I personally would not want to pull a machine back without knowing what the problem is and how to fix it.

I would not want to say I want myself considered as one of the top zero turn mower companies in the market. Then need to take one of my mowers back with the excuse of saying, "well, I am terribly sorry but the best mower I build just will not cut your type grass". That would be embarrassing and something I would make sure was straightened out if I had to bring a different decked mower back every month until I got it right.

They are working on averages, if not but one out of a hundred complain then I suppose they do not concern themselves. I have to make it work or die trying, that is just a difference in people.

tacoma200
05-25-2008, 06:37 PM
I doubt they have, but do not know this. If I was Hustler, I would be bringing a mower to you and finding out why my machine will not cut in your situation. I personally would not want to pull a machine back without knowing what the problem is and how to fix it.

I would not want to say I want myself considered as one of the top zero turn mower companies in the market. Then need to take one of my mowers back with the excuse of saying, "well, I am terribly sorry but the best mower I build just will not cut your type grass". That would be embarrassing and something I would make sure was straightened out if I had to bring a different decked mower back every month until I got it right.

They are working on averages, if not but one out of a hundred complain then I suppose they do not concern themselves. I have to make it work or die trying, that is just a difference in people.

Now the dealer ship was great. One of the guys came down to the county and looked at the grass here and pretty much told Hustler it was a totally different ballgame 100 miles South (Conditions). The dealer was in the Bluegrass region of the state where there are very rich alkaline soils noted around the world for horse farms. We are on a 1,000 ft plateau with yellow and clay soils and lot's of rock near the surface (much closer to Tennessee). They said the XR7 did well there but probably wouldn't on the turf here. They pretty much offered me my money back on the spot and asked me if I would quit posting the XR7 cut pictures on the Internet. It took several months to get my money back and I was with out the ZTR but they followed through as promised. Every one I dealt with at Hustler was very nice and professional and they tried to get the cut right (even over night aired a lift kit) but it wasn't designed for our conditions. As everyone has noticed due to our (owners) feedback on the XR7 it underwent some changes such as putting the triangles back. I still miss the comfort but not the cut.

johnnybravo8802
05-25-2008, 08:54 PM
There must be more than one Scag out there because my mower rides great-much better than all three of my Exmark's. I just totally disagree about the ride of the Scag. I also disagree about the cut. I've cut probably 4 different types of turf and the Scag cut better than any Exmark in all of the types of grass, including fescue. I never have to double cut either and I did, a lot, with the ultra-cut and triton. :cool2:

puppypaws
05-25-2008, 10:08 PM
There must be more than one Scag out there because my mower rides great-much better than all three of my Exmark's. I just totally disagree about the ride of the Scag. I also disagree about the cut. I've cut probably 4 different types of turf and the Scag cut better than any Exmark in all of the types of grass, including fescue. I never have to double cut either and I did, a lot, with the ultra-cut and triton. :cool2:

I don't have a dog in this fight, but do not doubt your word. Maybe some of the people that talk about the Exmark cut being the best on the market may chime in. I don't know about the comparison of ride either, other than I've heard people say they both ride rough but it seemed to be the opinion the Scag was rougher.

I am very glad to hear your opinion.

Skindog
05-25-2008, 10:08 PM
I cut at 3.00 inches. You think the 1/4 inch difference in cut height will make that much difference?
I may try it at 2.75 vs 3.00 I just cant imagine it making a night & day difference though
That is amazing my Super Z never leaves uncut grass even cutting at 15 mph. The young men that post in this forum and ran my Super Z will tell you it leaves no uncut grass or weeds unless a Dandelion gets pushed over with a tire. I cut at 2 3/4" and that is the difference, if I attempted to cut a 3 1/2" the speed would be useless. I cut lower to get more suction, because I am going to mow fast. I want to cut the most grass per gallon of gas possible with my mower and I never need to double cut. You are probably cutting a great deal higher and this is where the stragglers would come into play.

tacoma200
05-25-2008, 10:22 PM
I don't have a dog in this fight, but do not doubt your word. Maybe some of the people that talk about the Exmark cut being the best on the market may chime in. I don't know about the comparison of ride either, other than I've heard people say they both ride rough but it seemed to be the opinion the Scag was rougher.

I am very glad to hear your opinion.

They both ride rough compared to the Hustler. My Scag doesn't ride that bad, it has a long wheel base to fit the Velocity deck (the tractor body was originally supposed to have a 72" advantage deck and was decided that the 61" velocity would sell better) , suspension seat and 10 psi in the rear tires. The Exmark rides a little rougher no doubt due to the shorter wheel base. That being said I've been on some 27 hp Kohler Scags that were rough, they would jar you good. I'm not sure what the difference is. I just know my Tiger is very long.

I would rate the Hustler with flex forks a 9 in ride I would give my Turf Tiger a 6 and the Exmark Lazer a 5 and my old grasshopper a 7. The Grasshopper had a really soft seat and low pressure tires, not to bad.

johnnybravo8802
05-25-2008, 10:55 PM
I'd give the Exmark about a 3 on ride and the Scag an 8 on ride. The ride alone sold me on Scag. The Exmark wanted me to stay with Exmark so bad that he was planning to give me a full refund on my 19/46 and I refused based on the ride alone-night and day. My first Hustler was the roughest riding thing I have ever been on but it was a completely different animal than the ZTR of today. Hustler has always been a more rough cut machine. They were strictly industrial until 98' when I bought the first commercial machine. The machine I had was a 48" and it didn't float at all-it just hung from 4 chains and would dig into the ground. You could sit or stand like a motorcycle and it was a good design but I had a lot of probs with it. They've come a long ways but may still be stuck in the past with the cut quality. Back then, you had to get a hop-up kit to raise the blade tip speed if you wanted a better cut.

puppypaws
05-25-2008, 11:23 PM
I cut at 3.00 inches. You think the 1/4 inch difference in cut height will make that much difference?
I may try it at 2.75 vs 3.00 I just cant imagine it making a night & day difference though

When I am talking 2 3/4", I am not going by the mower gage. I have exactly 8 lbs. of air in every tire and I do mean exactly. The 2 3/4" height is an exact ruler measurement from the cutting edge bottom of the blade to a flat concrete floor. I want to know exactly what the measurement is for that location on your mower at this time, you may be fooled by the gage.

Tell me exactly what Super Z you are running, year model, deck, engine, flex forks or no flex forks.

puppypaws
05-25-2008, 11:30 PM
They both ride rough compared to the Hustler. My Scag doesn't ride that bad, it has a long wheel base to fit the Velocity deck (the tractor body was originally supposed to have a 72" advantage deck and was decided that the 61" velocity would sell better) , suspension seat and 10 psi in the rear tires. The Exmark rides a little rougher no doubt due to the shorter wheel base. That being said I've been on some 27 hp Kohler Scags that were rough, they would jar you good. I'm not sure what the difference is. I just know my Tiger is very long.

I would rate the Hustler with flex forks a 9 in ride I would give my Turf Tiger a 6 and the Exmark Lazer a 5 and my old grasshopper a 7. The Grasshopper had a really soft seat and low pressure tires, not to bad.

You cut some of the most aggravating turf in the country with both the Scag TT and the Exmark UltraCut, give "johnnybravo" your cut experience.

tacoma200
05-26-2008, 12:20 AM
You cut some of the most aggravating turf in the country with both the Scag TT and the Exmark UltraCut, give "johnnybravo" your cut experience.

Of course our grass is not the same but here the Ultra Cut is smoother and does great on dry well maintained lawns. The Tiger is for the heavy, wet, super thick stuff while still leaving a satisfactory cut (Especially since going to the 3" high lifts). Every area seems to be different.

johnnybravo8802
05-26-2008, 07:27 AM
Down here, we have hybrid bermuda and a lot of weeds, esp. dandelions which, in my experience, is the toughest thing in the world to mow without double cutting. I've had brand new blades on my Exmark, and it was still missing dandelions. I could get 3-4 inches from a weed with the triton and I wouldn't even see any suction moving the weed but with the velocity it sucks the weed right up from 3 inches away and cuts the top off. Here, I mow a lot of scrubby rough cut properties where, I'm told, is where the Scag was made to shine. The Scag used to be more in south Ga. where it's flat and has a lot of weeds and centipede and now north Ga. is becoming like that with the lack of rainfall. Now the Scag is becoming more popular here. We have very little fescue here now compared to 20 yrs. ago.

puppypaws
05-26-2008, 09:36 AM
Down here, we have hybrid bermuda and a lot of weeds, esp. dandelions which, in my experience, is the toughest thing in the world to mow without double cutting. I've had brand new blades on my Exmark, and it was still missing dandelions. I could get 3-4 inches from a weed with the triton and I wouldn't even see any suction moving the weed but with the velocity it sucks the weed right up from 3 inches away and cuts the top off. Here, I mow a lot of scrubby rough cut properties where, I'm told, is where the Scag was made to shine. The Scag used to be more in south Ga. where it's flat and has a lot of weeds and centipede and now north Ga. is becoming like that with the lack of rainfall. Now the Scag is becoming more popular here. We have very little fescue here now compared to 20 yrs. ago.

To show you something you can see for yourself, there is a tremendous number of Dandelions on my property. Cutting at the lower height I use my Super Z will cut them as well any mower made and probably better at the speed I cut (not always 15 mph but fast).

This was cut slower the first cutting but the same Dandelions were there for the next cut. I was cutting the thickest of them at 12 mph and the thinner at 15 mph. Therefore, this is no, I say, you say, they say, this is hard fact through pictures you can see with your own eyes. This is not double cut, neither do I ever need to double cut anything, unless it is 2' high.

I am not saying you can't possibly find a uncut Dandelion a tire pushed over, but I will say there is no Scag or Exmark that can do better job in the exact conditions you are seeing with your own eyes.

You can even see in the last picture yellow flowers of the Dandelions on the ground where the stems have been cut as clean as any mower made. It is very hard to argue with what your eyes see unless your brain has become cloudy.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106511&stc=1&d=1208631887

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106512&stc=1&d=1208632036

johnnybravo8802
05-26-2008, 10:12 AM
Puppypaws-Are you a Hustler rep? You sure are pushing that brand. I agree that Hustler is a well built mower. However, I owned a Hustler before anyone knew the company existed and I probably know the company better than anyone on this site. They have never been noted for being the best cutting machine on the market and may never be. I know that you have had good luck with yours but I have read from, quite a few others, that haven't had as good of an experience. The, not so good, cut is Hustler being true to their roots and majority always rules. Hustler was originally designed for industrial plants where the finished product isn't as important as just "getting it done"-honestly, the decks they use now aren't much different than the decks they used in 98'. I had a 48" mulching deck and a 60" side discharge deck for the same machine and the 60" did a good job but not the best job. Technically, the 15 mph is suppose to be a "transport speed"(word straight from the factory) and not a cutting speed. Hustler told me this several yrs ago when they first introduced the SuperZ-ask them! I don't know why everyone on this site thinks they were made to cut that fast. The original idea was to be able to scoot over to another job in the same neighborhood without loading the machine on the trailer. I really think that some of you with Hustlers should do better research and learn the intended purpose of the machine-no offense

puppypaws
05-26-2008, 11:37 AM
Technically, the 15 mph is suppose to be a "transport speed"(word straight from the factory) and not a cutting speed. Hustler told me this several yrs ago when they first introduced the SuperZ-ask them! I don't know why everyone on this site thinks they were made to cut that fast. The original idea was to be able to scoot over to another job in the same neighborhood without loading the machine on the trailer. I really think that some of you with Hustlers should do better research and learn the intended purpose of the machine-no offense

I think this may be your problem, you are living in the past!

Johnny, no offense but you are wrong, would you argue with a stop sign. Can you not look at the pictures with your own eyes and see your Scag will not cut and cannot cut the grass and Dandelions any better than where the Super Z has cut, and not nearly as fast.

You will also notice Hustler no longer has transport speed in their literature, I brought the meaning of transport to the President of Hustlers attention and was probably the one that got the wording changed.

This is copied and pasted directly from their specifications in the owners manual. You will see no more transport speed in mower specs unless they are wrong.

QUOTE:

Ground Speed Infinitely variable:
Forward: Super Z: 0-15 mph (0-22.53 kph),
Hustler Z: 0-9 mph (0-14.48 kph)
Reverse: Super Z: 0-7.5 mph (0-12.07 kph)
Hustler Z: 0-5 mph (0-8 kph)

The meaning of "transport" from the dictionary, is to carry from one point to another. Now this means if you are riding on a Super Z at 15 mph your personal transport speed will be just that, not the mowers transport speed.
The Super Z could be on a tractor trailer truck being carried (transported) down an interstate highway at 75 mph, this means the Super Z would have a transport speed of 75 mph. The mower cannot transport itself.

QUOTE:

Dictionary: transport (trăns-pôrt', -pōrt')

tr.v., -port·ed, -port·ing, -ports.
To carry from one place to another; convey.

Now, I would say you need to do your research before your brain outruns your knowledge.

Happy Frog
05-26-2008, 01:27 PM
I think this may be your problem, you are living in the past!

Johnny, no offense but you are wrong, would you argue with a stop sign. Can you not look at the pictures with your own eyes and see your Scag will not cut and cannot cut the grass and Dandelions any better than where the Super Z has cut, and not nearly as fast.

You will also notice Hustler no longer has transport speed in their literature, I brought the meaning of transport to the President of Hustlers attention and was probably the one that got the wording changed.

This is copied and pasted directly from their specifications in the owners manual. You will see no more transport speed in mower specs unless they are wrong.

QUOTE:

Ground Speed Infinitely variable:
Forward: Super Z: 0-15 mph (0-22.53 kph),
Hustler Z: 0-9 mph (0-14.48 kph)
Reverse: Super Z: 0-7.5 mph (0-12.07 kph)
Hustler Z: 0-5 mph (0-8 kph)

The meaning of "transport" from the dictionary, is to carry from one point to another. Now this means if you are riding on a Super Z at 15 mph your personal transport speed will be just that, not the mowers transport speed.
The Super Z could be on a tractor trailer truck being carried (transported) down an interstate highway at 75 mph, this means the Super Z would have a transport speed of 75 mph. The mower cannot transport itself.

QUOTE:

Dictionary: transport (trăns-pôrt', -pōrt')

tr.v., -port·ed, -port·ing, -ports.
To carry from one place to another; convey.

Now, I would say you need to do your research before your brain outruns your knowledge.

Puppypaws,
As much as I appreciate your knowledge and experience with these machines, I believe you are wrong on this speed issue.
Anyone can decide to cut at full speed with their ZTR (I do) but it is not within the specifications of these machines to do so (but it's great when it works).
Although Hustler doesn't specifies a transport speed on the Super-Z brochure, there is one on their user manual.
Here is an extract from the latest user manual (375527_0406.pdf) available on the Hustler web site:
Ground Speed - infinitely
variable
Hustler Z - 0-9 MPH (0-14.48
KPH) forward and 0-5 MPH (0-
8 KPH) reverse
Super Z -
Transport 0-15 MPH (0-24.14
KPH) forward
Mowing 0-10 MPH (0-16.09
KPH) forward and 0-7.5 MPH
(0-12.07 KPH) reverse
Your position on the subject ringed my mind because it was not what I remembered from taking a look at the manual of this mower when I was looking to buy a ZTR.
I have to say that I am surprised at the way you responded to johnnybravo8802 as well. I don't think it was called for.

tacoma200
05-26-2008, 03:49 PM
Seems like we all get a little hot and bothered when talking about brands sometimes. Each brand seems to have a place in the industry with strong and weak points. I haven't found a perfect one yet. My Hustler wouldn't cut well here but I still have a lot of respect for the company and understand why they designed it the way they did. It's a big country and it is nearly impossible to design a deck that works in all the conditions equally well. I feel that Johnny and Puppypaws just aren't seeing eye to eye right now, plus they are cutting in much different circumstances. The Super Z is exactly what Puppypaws needs and apparently the Scag is what is working in JohhnyBravo's area and conditions.

puppypaws
05-26-2008, 04:00 PM
Puppypaws,
As much as I appreciate your knowledge and experience with these machines, I believe you are wrong on this speed issue.
Anyone can decide to cut at full speed with their ZTR (I do) but it is not within the specifications of these machines to do so (but it's great when it works).
Although Hustler doesn't specifies a transport speed on the Super-Z brochure, there is one on their user manual.
Here is an extract from the latest user manual (375527_0406.pdf) available on the Hustler web site:
Ground Speed - infinitely
variable
Hustler Z - 0-9 MPH (0-14.48
KPH) forward and 0-5 MPH (0-
8 KPH) reverse
Super Z -
Transport 0-15 MPH (0-24.14
KPH) forward
Mowing 0-10 MPH (0-16.09
KPH) forward and 0-7.5 MPH
(0-12.07 KPH) reverse
Your position on the subject ringed my mind because it was not what I remembered from taking a look at the manual of this mower when I was looking to buy a ZTR.
I have to say that I am surprised at the way you responded to johnnybravo8802 as well. I don't think it was called for.

Come on "Happy Frog", I told him not to take offense, it is all in fun. Now saying that I will tell you that you are also wrong and if you do not believe it call Hustler tomorrow and verify exactly what I have said.

When you read the hard facts on this attachment I inserted, you will find out (which I was surprised) all the mower manufactures have taken "transport" out of their mower specification information. I have shown both of you pictures of the excellent cut and you have heard other people with different brands of mowers tell you the Super Z does an excellent job of cutting grass at 15 mph. What you define as transport speed, but must be cutting speed if it does cut that fast and do a good job.

You have looked at the pictures and I think would admit it gave an excellent cut under those conditions, as good as any mower. Now you can look at the information in this attachment and help yourself decide you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to the definition of transport speed.

puppypaws
05-26-2008, 04:05 PM
Seems like we all get a little hot and bothered when talking about brands sometimes. Each brand seems to have a place in the industry with strong and weak points. I haven't found a perfect one yet. My Hustler wouldn't cut well here but I still have a lot of respect for the company and understand why they designed it the way they did. It's a big country and it is nearly impossible to design a deck that works in all the conditions equally well. I feel that Johnny and Puppypaws just aren't seeing eye to eye right now, plus they are cutting in much different circumstances. The Super Z is exactly what Puppypaws needs and apparently the Scag is what is working in JohhnyBravo's area and conditions.

These boys want to debate an I enjoy it, if I am wrong I will be the first one to admit it. When you have the pictures and documentation I just posted; I honestly don't see the debatable point, do you? I forgot to mention the written testimonies posted by people with different machines demoing my Super Z and agreeing with what I have always said. I promise I did not hold a gun to their heads.

tacoma200
05-26-2008, 04:17 PM
These boys want to debate an I enjoy it, if I am wrong I will be the first one to admit it. When you have the pictures and documentation I just posted; I honestly don't see the debatable point, do you? I forgot to mention the written testimonies posted by people with different machines demoing my Super Z and agreeing with what I have always said. I promise I did not hold a gun to their heads.

My Super Z would cut Bermuda at top speed at 3" so I know it's possible.:)

Happy Frog
05-26-2008, 04:25 PM
Puppypaws,
I am not arguing that the Super-Z can leave a superb cut at full speed (15 mph) and I believe you when you said it is the best mower you have found for what you do.
Heck, I have considered buying one for myself as well and I still may do so in the future.
I am just saying that the latest Super-Z user manual does state on the Technical Specification page (page 9-1) that the forward speed for mowing is 0-10 mph and 0-15 mph for transport.
johnnybravo8802 was correct to say that technically, 15 mph is supposed to be "transport speed".

johnnybravo8802
05-26-2008, 04:33 PM
Puppypaws-Thank you for your response!!:)I never refuted that your Super Z is doing a good job at cutting at a high speed. And, by the way, I will argue with a STOP sign if I feel the sign is wrong!!:laugh::laugh:I can't argue the point of knowing more about a Super Z of today versus yourself because I have never owned one-I give credit where credit is due. However, you need to do the same. I've been doing this professionally.....for many yrs. and owned Hustler before you even knew the brand existed-I've owned a 1500 and a 3200-look them up. The original meaning of Hustler's transport speed goes back further than your knowledge-it was simply to go fast from one job to the next in the same neighborhood on asphalt and that's a fact. I was told that by a distributor here in the South who had sold Hustler for many yrs-You can't refute that.

I have read many threads on here stating that the Super Z's were geared tall and were better on flat... ground versus other brands. Why do you think that is so? I have also read many threads about Hustler's cut not being as good as other brands and that's coming from other people, not me. The Hustler's I've owned cut fair and it seems to be the same with other's in present time, not just the past. My question-Do you think you are the only one right and everyone else is wrong? Who is arguing with the Stop sign now?:rolleyes: Even the next response after yours said that you were wrong.

I won't argue with the cut of your machine-it does a great job. I will argue with the original meaning of transport speed though. Ask someone at Hustler who's been there longer than 3 yrs. and they will tell you the original meaning and then you can say how right I am. I'll say it again, and you can take it to the bank, and buy you a Scag:laugh::laugh:, the 15 MPH was originally.....meant to go from job to job at a higher rate of speed and not have to load the mower on a trailer. That's why it's geared taller and doesn't do 15MPH going up hill. They may have changed the mower over the yrs, but that was the original purpose!!!!

puppypaws
05-26-2008, 05:57 PM
Puppypaws-Thank you for your response!!:)I never refuted that your Super Z is doing a good job at cutting at a high speed. And, by the way, I will argue with a STOP sign if I feel the sign is wrong!!:laugh::laugh:I can't argue the point of knowing more about a Super Z of today versus yourself because I have never owned one-I give credit where credit is due. However, you need to do the same. I've been doing this professionally.....for many yrs. and owned Hustler before you even knew the brand existed-I've owned a 1500 and a 3200-look them up. The original meaning of Hustler's transport speed goes back further than your knowledge-it was simply to go fast from one job to the next in the same neighborhood on asphalt and that's a fact. I was told that by a distributor here in the South who had sold Hustler for many yrs-You can't refute that.

I have read many threads on here stating that the Super Z's were geared tall and were better on flat... ground versus other brands. Why do you think that is so? I have also read many threads about Hustler's cut not being as good as other brands and that's coming from other people, not me. The Hustler's I've owned cut fair and it seems to be the same with other's in present time, not just the past. My question-Do you think you are the only one right and everyone else is wrong? Who is arguing with the Stop sign now?:rolleyes: Even the next response after yours said that you were wrong.

I won't argue with the cut of your machine-it does a great job. I will argue with the original meaning of transport speed though. Ask someone at Hustler who's been there longer than 3 yrs. and they will tell you the original meaning and then you can say how right I am. I'll say it again, and you can take it to the bank, and buy you a Scag:laugh::laugh:, the 15 MPH was originally.....meant to go from job to job at a higher rate of speed and not have to load the mower on a trailer. That's why it's geared taller and doesn't do 15MPH going up hill. They may have changed the mower over the yrs, but that was the original purpose!!!!

You have to get away from your old Hustler thoughts, we are not talking about a Super Z that Fred Flintstone used.

I just printed the definition of "transport" and showed you that transport has been removed from all mower literature specifications because of the meaning of "transport" (to move from one place to another). They did not change the wording on the terrible looking Hustler operators manual, but it has changed on their web site which is the most up to date.

Why do you think all mower manufactures have taken transport speed out of the specifications. If they thought the meaning to be correct they had no reason to remove the word "transport". Now, tell me why you think mower manufactures removed the word "transport speed" from all their literature and specs?

I suppose Dixie Chopper is wrong also, but since they no longer use transport speed in the specs of their 15 mph mower I guess they actually started mowing at that speed instead of driving from one job to another or to get back to the trailer. Call Hustler and ask them why they took the word "transport speed" out of their literature, then call the rest of the mower manufactures and ask them the same question. Why would you think Hustler and Dixie Chopper advertise their machines to be the fastest zero turn mowers in America. Do you think they advertise this to ride up and down the road or for people to actually believe they can mow grass that fast.

I have all ideas the Dixie Chopper people will tell you they mow grass at 15 mph the same as I do.

I would be willing to bet the operators manual has not changed since the XR-7 deck came out in 2006 and the first manual was printed. Hustler does have the worst looking operators manual in the mower market and I doubt it will ever change until the design changes.

Call Hustler and Dixie Chopper, then ask them if their mowers are designed to cut grass at 15 mph or you can only use the top speed to get from job to job or back to the trailer. Who's answer do you think will be correct, mine or yours and I say they made it to cut grass whenever possible at that speed.

Lets be honest, don't cross your fingers before you answer!

Oh, by the way, why would I buy a Scag that I can cut circles around. There is a lot of difference in 15 mph and 12 mph. I can just run off and leave it, the same as a Bad Boy and a Dixie Chopper which will do the same.

puppypaws
05-26-2008, 06:27 PM
Puppypaws,
As much as I appreciate your knowledge and experience with these machines, I believe you are wrong on this speed issue.
Anyone can decide to cut at full speed with their ZTR (I do) but it is not within the specifications of these machines to do so (but it's great when it works).
Although Hustler doesn't specifies a transport speed on the Super-Z brochure, there is one on their user manual.
Here is an extract from the latest user manual (375527_0406.pdf) available on the Hustler web site:
Ground Speed - infinitely
variable
Hustler Z - 0-9 MPH (0-14.48
KPH) forward and 0-5 MPH (0-
8 KPH) reverse
Super Z -
Transport 0-15 MPH (0-24.14
KPH) forward
Mowing 0-10 MPH (0-16.09
KPH) forward and 0-7.5 MPH
(0-12.07 KPH) reverse
Your position on the subject ringed my mind because it was not what I remembered from taking a look at the manual of this mower when I was looking to buy a ZTR.
I have to say that I am surprised at the way you responded to johnnybravo8802 as well. I don't think it was called for.

The information you have here is old and has not been change in the operators manual since the first XR-7 came out in 2006. I have the manual and that is the way it reads.

The newest uo to date information is on the website and you will not find transport speed in the PDF form operators manual or PDF form spec sheet of any mower Hustler makes.

Look for yourself:

http://www.hustlerturf.com/Web-content/Index.html

johnnybravo8802
05-26-2008, 08:37 PM
Puppy Power-I don't even know why I'm still arguing this point. What was the original point? I simply stated the original meaning of transport speed and I am right, unless I was dreaming that day. If you argued with Hustler over the wording of "transport speed", then you should know Hustler's original meaning of it. What was the original meaning? Was it to put the mower on the trailer and not drive your truck over 15MPH? Someone is in trouble if it were! Hustler didn't just open their doors when you bought your first machine. They were using the word "transport" before you were around and must of had a reason for it. I'm sure if they would have consulted you first, we wouldn't be in this dilemma:dizzy:

bfstrider
05-26-2008, 08:50 PM
Give up Puppypaws. You can't argue with someone who has convinced himself he is right no matter what information is put before him. He will convince himself over and over again that he is right. You never will be able to get him to see your point or accept anything you have to say.

johnnybravo8802
05-26-2008, 08:57 PM
bfstrider-I never said that the Hustler couldn't cut grass at 15MPH or that it didn't do a good job. I simply stated that the original meaning of "transport speed" wasn't to mow at 15MPH, it was to travel from one job to another at 15MPH. They could have very well changed the mower to mow at 15MPH but the first Super Z's weren't set up that way. I think people are missing the point here.:confused:

TLS
05-26-2008, 09:05 PM
Guys....

Whats the difference here?

The SuperZ is capable of 15mph speeds. What you do at that speed is totally up to you. I use it all the time to zip around larger properties and I do drive to several different lawns while leaving the truck in one spot.

However, I do at times use the full speed of this mower to MOW. I do NOT have flex forks or flex seat. I run 8 and 8 in the tires and feel that this gives me a very nice ride.

SO....does it really matter what words say in manuals or online? Use it (the speed) how you see fit. If you cant use the speed, you don't really need this mower. Personally I'd find it just as hard to go to a slower mower as it would be to go to a non EFI'd engine.

puppypaws
05-26-2008, 09:10 PM
bfstrider-I never said that the Hustler couldn't cut grass at 15MPH or that it didn't do a good job. I simply stated that the original meaning of "transport speed" wasn't to mow at 15MPH, it was to travel from one job to another at 15MPH. They could have very well changed the mower to mow at 15MPH but the first Super Z's weren't set up that way. I think people are missing the point here.:confused:

I don't know why everyone on this site thinks they were made to cut that fast. The original idea was to be able to scoot over to another job in the same neighborhood without loading the machine on the trailer. I really think that some of you with Hustlers should do better research and learn the intended purpose of the machine-no offense

This is what you said, or are you going to claim you didn't write this either and "bfstrider" just happened not to see this post or was unable to comprehend what he read. This was the statement you made not me.

Give Hustler a call, ask them if they made a 15 mph Super Z to cut grass at that speed or to drive around from job to job, or to load on the trailer faster then call Dixie Chopper and ask them the same question.

Give up Puppypaws. You can't argue with someone who has convinced himself he is right no matter what information is put before him. He will convince himself over and over again that he is right. You never will be able to get him to see your point or accept anything you have to say.

You have put no information in front of me other than an outdated operators manual, which I have one written the same way from 2006 that has not been changed. The information I put before you is the newest updated information Hustler has and like you said you can't convince someone of something they are unable to comprehend. Are you trying to say the information Hustler has put on their website is meaningless and your outdated operators manual is true to fact, if so why did they change their information?

Happy Frog
05-26-2008, 10:20 PM
The information you have here is old and has not been change in the operators manual since the first XR-7 came out in 2006. I have the manual and that is the way it reads.

The newest uo to date information is on the website and you will not find transport speed in the PDF form operators manual or PDF form spec sheet of any mower Hustler makes.

Look for yourself:

http://www.hustlerturf.com/Web-content/Index.html

The information I produced was coming from the latest manual available on Hustler web site... What can I say?
http://www.hustlerturf.com/Web-content/Manual/manuals%20pdfs/Owners%20Manuals/375527_0406.pdf
I am sorry the manual on the Hustler web site is outdated and that we should disregard what it says.
I didn't know that we should only refer to the limited information given on the marketing documentation rather than the comprehensive list of specs given in the Owner's Manual. :confused:

I am glad Hustler made the modifications needed on their Super-Z to improve the specs. I just couldn't find what they did though... :dizzy:

My bad, next time I'll just trust you instead...

puppypaws
05-26-2008, 10:39 PM
The information I produced was coming from the latest manual available on Hustler web site... What can I say?
http://www.hustlerturf.com/Web-content/Manual/manuals%20pdfs/Owners%20Manuals/375527_0406.pdf
I am sorry the manual on the Hustler web site is outdated and that we should disregard what it says.
I didn't know that we should only refer to the limited information given on the marketing documentation rather than the comprehensive list of specs given in the Owner's Manual. :confused:

I am glad Hustler made the modifications needed on their Super-Z to improve the specs. I just couldn't find what they did though... :dizzy:

My bad, next time I'll just trust you instead...

Come on "Frog" I know you can figure things out. I told you this was old information and the operators manuals just were not changed. Now to prove this to you, on the link you gave you will notice the operators manual covers Hustler Super Z's before the XR-7 was introduced which means this is very old material they have just had no reason to change for that small wording discrepancy. I copied just enough so you could see and tell exactly what I am saying, see if you now agree their website has updated information. I really have no idea why you said they had "limited information" on their website and the old operators manual was more up to date. You will notice the old model Super Z's manual went right into covering the XR-7, can you read and understand this?

Super Z 27/60”, number 927038
Super Z 27/72”, number 927046
Super Z 28EFI/60”, number 927053
Super Z 28EFI/72”, number 927061
Super Z 26LC/60”, number 927558
Super Z 26LC/72”, number 927566
Super Z 27/60”RD, number 927467
Super Z 27/72”RD, number 927624
Super Z 25/60”RD, number 927673
Super Z 25/72”RD, number 927681
HZ23KAW54XR7STA, number 927723
HZ23KAW60XR7STA, number 927731
HZ24HON60XR7STA, number 927756
HZ25KAW60XR7STA, number 927772

MJB
05-27-2008, 01:18 AM
:rolleyes:I'm not going to take sides here but I know what happens when I try to side discharge or mulch at full speed with my 2006 Super Z, a lot of uncut grass. This really came to my attention when I demoed the Kubota with a mulching kit aganst my Hustler. The Kubota never left any grass piles the grass dissapeared running at less than full speed which is around 8mph. My Hustler running the same speed left grass uncut and what it cut was piled everywhere. Now the Hustler does well in 2" or less anything over 2 inches mulching has to be double and triple cut. Now I attempted to side discharge at setting ranging from 2.5 inches to 4" and it (HUstler)left strips everywhere thats why I put the mulching kit on it. I've been doing this with many brands of mowers for 17yrs, and the Hustler is the worst cut by far on the negative side, but on the positive side the best ride. So when I'm mowing I'm smiling on the first pass:dancing: yahoo this is great....... then I turn around and see what I cut and this is my 2nd pass:cry:....

So now I just mow with my eyes closed and feeeeel the ride aaawhh :laugh:

puppypaws
05-27-2008, 02:00 AM
:rolleyes:I'm not going to take sides here but I know what happens when I try to side discharge or mulch at full speed with my 2006 Super Z, a lot of uncut grass. This really came to my attention when I demoed the Kubota with a mulching kit aganst my Hustler. The Kubota never left any grass piles the grass dissapeared running at less than full speed which is around 8mph. My Hustler running the same speed left grass uncut and what it cut was piled everywhere. Now the Hustler does well in 2" or less anything over 2 inches mulching has to be double and triple cut. Now I attempted to side discharge at setting ranging from 2.5 inches to 4" and it (HUstler)left strips everywhere thats why I put the mulching kit on it. I've been doing this with many brands of mowers for 17yrs, and the Hustler is the worst cut by far on the negative side, but on the positive side the best ride. So when I'm mowing I'm smiling on the first pass:dancing: yahoo this is great....... then I turn around and see what I cut and this is my 2nd pass:cry:....

So now I just mow with my eyes closed and feeeeel the ride aaawhh :laugh:

I just contribute that to the difference in areas and cutting heights. I never double cut anything and never leave anything standing and mow more wide open than at any other speed.

I would say without doubt if my mower performed like yours I would not own it a week. Have you ever had them bring you another Super Z, just to see if there is a difference?

Like I have said before, all mowers are not equal; even coming off the same assembly line back to back.

MJB
05-27-2008, 02:36 AM
I just contribute that to the difference in areas and cutting heights. I never double cut anything and never leave anything standing and mow more wide open than at any other speed.

I would say without doubt if my mower performed like yours I would not own it a week. Have you ever had them bring you another Super Z, just to see if there is a difference?

Like I have said before, all mowers are not equal; even coming off the same assembly line back to back.


I've had 5 or 6 loaners each time mine was in the shop all were side discharging and it only proved to me that they can't cut this grass up here the way other mowers can. I think it was simular to Tacoma's area. Only I don't have the weeds just thick grass. The difference too was I use to get paid extra to doublecut everything so you could not see any grass lying on the ground at all if possible. Thats why I didn't worry about the hustler when I bought it. Now people are saying on the big 3 plus acre lawns can you just knock it down for us. So I do and they get a break on the price a little. Now they aren't even fertilizing but it still grows about 4 to 6 inches each week. They water 6 days a week out here so it goes crazy. If I cut on 3 3/4 I'm cutting 4 inches in places but the grass is fine and thick enough to strangle a mower or leave strips and lay over the grass.

puppypaws
05-27-2008, 07:16 AM
I've had 5 or 6 loaners each time mine was in the shop all were side discharging and it only proved to me that they can't cut this grass up here the way other mowers can. I think it was simular to Tacoma's area. Only I don't have the weeds just thick grass. The difference too was I use to get paid extra to doublecut everything so you could not see any grass lying on the ground at all if possible. Thats why I didn't worry about the hustler when I bought it. Now people are saying on the big 3 plus acre lawns can you just knock it down for us. So I do and they get a break on the price a little. Now they aren't even fertilizing but it still grows about 4 to 6 inches each week. They water 6 days a week out here so it goes crazy. If I cut on 3 3/4 I'm cutting 4 inches in places but the grass is fine and thick enough to strangle a mower or leave strips and lay over the grass.

You have some of the most beautiful grass; there is in the country. It really looks like that type grass would run into fungus problems putting that much water on. I would think a good soaking a couple of times a week would be much better than everyday.

Please keep us informed on your demos and how the mowers perform in your situation. I love to look at plush grass like in your area but believe I would absolutely hate to cut there.

MJB
05-27-2008, 09:39 AM
You have some of the most beautiful grass; there is in the country. It really looks like that type grass would run into fungus problems putting that much water on. I would think a good soaking a couple of times a week would be much better than everyday.

Please keep us informed on your demos and how the mowers perform in your situation. I love to look at plush grass like in your area but believe I would absolutely hate to cut there.

Your right we have necrotic ring spot which is a pain. But when most of my lawns are in the sand dunes drainage is too good and the lawns dry out fast. Plus people out here waste water like there no tommorrow, it's frustrating too. Most of the time I show up and the ground is so saturated that it's squishy. I generally drop them if they won't listen I try to get them to turn it off for 2 days before we mow. Not all the lawns are on sand but the people still over water. I even put it in my contracts that I must have control of the water now.

Razorblades
05-27-2008, 09:50 AM
I just contribute that to the difference in areas and cutting heights. I never double cut anything and never leave anything standing and mow more wide open than at any other speed.

I would say without doubt if my mower performed like yours I would not own it a week. Have you ever had them bring you another Super Z, just to see if there is a difference?

Like I have said before, all mowers are not equal; even coming off the same assembly line back to back.
Puppypaws,
I understand what you're saying, there are "lemons" that come off of every assembly line that manufactures products but It doesn't say much for their manufacturing system or Quality control system if they can't produce mower decks of the same model that will be within their build tolerances and perform at the level that they were designed for on a consistent basis, or if the quality control dept. can't effectively intercept nearly all of the decks that aren't built within specifications. I'm not saying that this IS happening, just that it is unlikely that a company like Hustler (or any other commercial mower company) would allow the above mentioned scenario to exist for any appreciable time or they wouldn't stay in business very long. Since there have been other posters noting that the Hustler didn't leave the best cut for them in their experience, while it is performing very well for you (and others) in your experience, it just comes down to the simple fact that (Like Tacoma and others have said) certain mowers perform better/ worse on certain types of (weeds) and grasses. I know you realize that also, I just don't hold to the idea that mower decks that came off of the same assembly line ( or built at the same time and place, however they may be built) can have a drastically different quality of cut, if used in the same areas. It might happen once in a great while but not Very often will it be the reason for the mower to not cut well. Thanks, Razorblades

puppypaws
05-27-2008, 07:31 PM
Puppypaws,
I understand what you're saying, there are "lemons" that come off of every assembly line that manufactures products but It doesn't say much for their manufacturing system or Quality control system if they can't produce mower decks of the same model that will be within their build tolerances and perform at the level that they were designed for on a consistent basis, or if the quality control dept. can't effectively intercept nearly all of the decks that aren't built within specifications. I'm not saying that this IS happening, just that it is unlikely that a company like Hustler (or any other commercial mower company) would allow the above mentioned scenario to exist for any appreciable time or they wouldn't stay in business very long. Since there have been other posters noting that the Hustler didn't leave the best cut for them in their experience, while it is performing very well for you (and others) in your experience, it just comes down to the simple fact that (Like Tacoma and others have said) certain mowers perform better/ worse on certain types of (weeds) and grasses. I know you realize that also, I just don't hold to the idea that mower decks that came off of the same assembly line ( or built at the same time and place, however they may be built) can have a drastically different quality of cut, if used in the same areas. It might happen once in a great while but not Very often will it be the reason for the mower to not cut well. Thanks, Razorblades

I will agree, and do believe the decks are built to a specific standard and should all be within a certain tolerance. The problem can come from components bought from outside vendors such as pulleys, spindles, belts and bearings. I would say there probably has been vendors changed due to poor quality in probably every manufacturing facility in the country. A chain is no stronger than the weakest link, that would be the same with a mower deck and the components that makes it function.

puppypaws
05-27-2008, 08:01 PM
Your right we have necrotic ring spot which is a pain. But when most of my lawns are in the sand dunes drainage is too good and the lawns dry out fast. Plus people out here waste water like there no tommorrow, it's frustrating too. Most of the time I show up and the ground is so saturated that it's squishy. I generally drop them if they won't listen I try to get them to turn it off for 2 days before we mow. Not all the lawns are on sand but the people still over water. I even put it in my contracts that I must have control of the water now.

I have never heard of "necrotic ring spot", is that a predominately northwest fungus? We have what is called "fairy ring" fungus in Bermuda grass, you see and notice it mostly in golf course fairways. This is a strange looking fungus, you will see what looks to be a perfect and I mean perfect ring which could be of various size.

Think about laying a derby hat on the ground with the top cut off and tracing a circle inside the rim that fits your head, then tracing a circle on the outside of the hat brim. Now think about this hat being of many different sizes and brim widths. The area you traced has a perfect circle but could be of many different sizes, inside the lines you traced is Bermuda grass that is as dead as if you sprayed a heavy dose of roundup on it two weeks before. The living grass inside the traced ring which looks like a round spot is twice as green and healthy as any other Bermuda you can see in the area. You will see a large number of these rings, some close together in the same fairway. It is really one of the strangest things you could see in grass, it kind of reminds you of the crop circle phenomenon.

MJB
05-27-2008, 09:10 PM
I have never heard of "necrotic ring spot", is that a predominately northwest fungus? We have what is called "fairy ring" fungus in Bermuda grass, you see and notice it mostly in golf course fairways. This is a strange looking fungus, you will see what looks to be a perfect and I mean perfect ring which could be of various size.

Think about laying a derby hat on the ground with the top cut off and tracing a circle inside the rim that fits your head, then tracing a circle on the outside of the hat brim. Now think about this hat being of many different sizes and brim widths. The area you traced has a perfect circle but could be of many different sizes, inside the lines you traced is Bermuda grass that is as dead as if you sprayed a heavy dose of roundup on it two weeks before. The living grass inside the traced ring which looks like a round spot is twice as green and healthy as any other Bermuda you can see in the area. You will see a large number of these rings, some close together in the same fairway. It is really one of the strangest things you could see in grass, it kind of reminds you of the crop circle phenomenon.

What you describe is pretty much the same thing some call it fairy ring. Up here they come in all sizes some as large as 10ft or more to 1 ft slowly the center dies out. I find that using a hotter fertilizer slows it down and hides it. better like an ammonia sulfate. I'll take ammonia sulfate and pour it on the dead part which really if it were not already dead it would be from the A. S. Sometimes this will cause it go dormant or not spread as fast. I also aerate lawns a lot. We obviously have thatch problems from people overwatering and using 16 16 16 which is the wrong fertilizer for established lawns.

puppypaws
05-27-2008, 09:38 PM
What you describe is pretty much the same thing some call it fairy ring. Up here they come in all sizes some as large as 10ft or more to 1 ft slowly the center dies out. I find that using a hotter fertilizer slows it down and hides it. better like an ammonia sulfate. I'll take ammonia sulfate and pour it on the dead part which really if it were not already dead it would be from the A. S. Sometimes this will cause it go dormant or not spread as fast. I also aerate lawns a lot. We obviously have thatch problems from people overwatering and using 16 16 16 which is the wrong fertilizer for established lawns.

I wondered why you could see the center look like it was nitrogen fed dark green grass. I have never seen mushrooms around this at all but it is sandy soil that dries fast. Dry condition and cool temperature keep it from growing as quickly and I did not realize it was that deep in the soil.

QUOTE:

Disease Cycle. The disease is caused by any one of a number of soil-inhabiting fungi. Development of the fairy rings starts with a germinating spore or a strand of mycleium and grows outward in all directions. The fungus feeds on organic matter in the soil. Fungal strands (mycelium) spread throughout the soil to a depth of 10 to 12 inches. As the fungus grows, the first visible evidence of a new fairy ring is a cluster of mushrooms (the fruiting structure of the fungus) or a tuft of stimulated dark green grass. Later, as the fungi spread outward from the point of origin, the ring-like pattern develops.

The initial tuft of dark green grass and the ring of stimulated grass that develops later result from the nitrogen released after the fungus breaks down the organic matter in the soil. Ae ring of brown or dead grass may also develop, caused by the depletion of soil moisture in the area where the fungus is concentrated. If you dig into the area of brown or dead grass, you will find a dense growth of white mycelium. Water will not penetrate this zone of dense mycelial growth.

puppypaws
05-27-2008, 09:58 PM
What you describe is pretty much the same thing some call it fairy ring. Up here they come in all sizes some as large as 10ft or more to 1 ft slowly the center dies out. I find that using a hotter fertilizer slows it down and hides it. better like an ammonia sulfate. I'll take ammonia sulfate and pour it on the dead part which really if it were not already dead it would be from the A. S. Sometimes this will cause it go dormant or not spread as fast. I also aerate lawns a lot. We obviously have thatch problems from people overwatering and using 16 16 16 which is the wrong fertilizer for established lawns.

The EPA is always looking at the farmer when nitrogen or phosphate levels get high in a body of water such as the Chesapeake Bay. They never stop to think about home owners that never soil sample and put down much higher levels of fertilizer than farmers use per acre. When they irrigate a lawn heavily or it comes a very big rain just after they fertilized it has a very short distance to move into the storm drainage system, then dump into a creek, then a river and next into a bay or the ocean. There is much more fertilizer put into our water by lawn and golf course fertilization than farmers, most people have never considered this. The EPA can regulate a minority of farmers but would have a difficult time regulating home owners being the majority.

I personally have to soil sample hundreds of acres a year, then take samples of my poultry litter and apply according to the level of nitrogen, phosphate and potassium in each ton that a certain crop will use in a growing period. I also have to keep a very close eye on any heavy metal build up that may occur, which the soil samples will show. Now, you talking about a lot of record keeping, you can believe I have a ton of paper work to fill out each year.

MJB
05-27-2008, 11:01 PM
O h yeah, Homeowners and some lawncare companies are the worst. I've seen both not even hesitate when fertilizing next to the lake. We don't get dumped on here with heavy rains but people over water until its washing it down the street. I was on a job the other day the HOA on 1 side of the street fertilized their 17 units. On the otherside of the street is another 16 units and a different HOA. The fertilizer was all over the road and washed right into the drain, just a white film all over almost getting into the lawns I was mowing.

So it's not just the farmers. It's everyone including our government. We are still having ground water contamination from the 60's whe an air force base about 2 miles from me use TCE and wash it into the ground water, they closed it and moved the base away and left us the mess. But we shouldn't worry it's safe takes about 30yrs before you get sick.

Back to lawn fungus I have found over time some soil microbes and a product that eats thatch has helped with the rings I hardly notice them anymore. Its a Tanio product .

Lawn-Scapes
05-28-2008, 12:28 AM
I just contribute that to the difference in areas and cutting heights. I never double cut anything and never leave anything standing and mow more wide open than at any other speed.

I would say without doubt if my mower performed like yours I would not own it a week. Have you ever had them bring you another Super Z, just to see if there is a difference?

Like I have said before, all mowers are not equal; even coming off the same assembly line back to back.

Looking at the pictures you posted.. it looks as though you are discharging to the same (uncut) direction each time. Is that correct? If you discharge to the previous cut pass... will you have clippings laying? If I blew clipping the same direction all the time... I don't think I'd have to double cut either.

Happy Frog
05-28-2008, 12:40 AM
I would be willing to bet the operators manual has not changed since the XR-7 deck came out in 2006 and the first manual was printed. Hustler does have the worst looking operators manual in the mower market and I doubt it will ever change until the design changes.

Puppypaws, you are wrong again...
Bad Boy Mowers is the company which has the worst looking operators manual in the industry. Just download one from their web site and you'll be convinced as well. :laugh:
Their parts manuals are looking great though... :cool2:

puppypaws
05-28-2008, 07:04 AM
Puppypaws, you are wrong again...
Bad Boy Mowers is the company which has the worst looking operators manual in the industry. Just download one from their web site and you'll be convinced as well. :laugh:
Their parts manuals are looking great though... :cool2:

I am not talking about a downloaded one, I am talking about one supplied by the manufacture when you buy a new machine. The only manual I have ever received with a Hustler mower is no more than white copy paper printed and stapled together.


Looking at the pictures you posted.. it looks as though you are discharging to the same (uncut) direction each time. Is that correct? If you discharge to the previous cut pass... will you have clippings laying? If I blew clipping the same direction all the time... I don't think I'd have to double cut either.


I mow to move all the grass off the mowed area the first time, then you can mow any direction you like without a problem. It also looks much better, like bagging would.

puppypaws
05-28-2008, 07:23 AM
O h yeah, Homeowners and some lawncare companies are the worst. I've seen both not even hesitate when fertilizing next to the lake. We don't get dumped on here with heavy rains but people over water until its washing it down the street. I was on a job the other day the HOA on 1 side of the street fertilized their 17 units. On the otherside of the street is another 16 units and a different HOA. The fertilizer was all over the road and washed right into the drain, just a white film all over almost getting into the lawns I was mowing.

Back to lawn fungus I have found over time some soil microbes and a product that eats thatch has helped with the rings I hardly notice them anymore. Its a Tanio product .

You have seen and verified what I was talking about exactly. The average homeowner thinks the more fertilizer used the better their lawn looks, especially nitrogen. They don't seem to understand, any crop, be it grass or whatever can only utilize a certain amount of nutrients in a growing period.
You know this, but you also know how the average person thinks.

Here is a some interesting information on control of "fairy ring".

QUOTE:

Control. Fairy rings are very difficult to control with fungicides since the soil in the infected area is almost impervious to water. Some success has been achieved by aerating the soil and drenching the infected area with fungicide. A new fungicide, Prostar from AgrEvo USA Company, has shown good control of fairy ring.

Masking the symptoms of fairy rings is most effective. Aerating and drenching the soil with a wetting agent will help prevent the development of the zone of brown or dead grass in the area of dense mycelial growth. Keeping the fertility level of the turf high will also help to mask the appearance of the ring of stimulated, or dark green growth. Also, regular mowing removes the mushrooms, the other symptom of the fairy ring disease.

Hustler
05-28-2008, 10:08 AM
Puppypaws,
As much as I appreciate your knowledge and experience with these machines, I believe you are wrong on this speed issue.
Anyone can decide to cut at full speed with their ZTR (I do) but it is not within the specifications of these machines to do so (but it's great when it works).
Although Hustler doesn't specifies a transport speed on the Super-Z brochure, there is one on their user manual.
Here is an extract from the latest user manual (375527_0406.pdf) available on the Hustler web site:
Ground Speed - infinitely
variable
Hustler Z - 0-9 MPH (0-14.48
KPH) forward and 0-5 MPH (0-
8 KPH) reverse
Super Z -
Transport 0-15 MPH (0-24.14
KPH) forward
Mowing 0-10 MPH (0-16.09
KPH) forward and 0-7.5 MPH
(0-12.07 KPH) reverse
Your position on the subject ringed my mind because it was not what I remembered from taking a look at the manual of this mower when I was looking to buy a ZTR.
I have to say that I am surprised at the way you responded to johnnybravo8802 as well. I don't think it was called for.

Puppypaws is correct. The most up-to-date information that we publish no longer refers to "transport" speed. Here is the actual copy from the newest spec sheet:

Ground Speed Infinitely variable:
Forward:Super Z: 0-15 mph
Reverse: 0-7.5 mph

The Owner's Manual still has an older version of the spec in it and needs to be updated.

puppypaws
05-28-2008, 12:52 PM
Puppypaws is correct. The most up-to-date information that we publish no longer refers to "transport" speed. Here is the actual copy from the newest spec sheet:

Ground Speed Infinitely variable:
Forward:Super Z: 0-15 mph
Reverse: 0-7.5 mph

The Owner's Manual still has an older version of the spec in it and needs to be updated.

Well, I suppose that ended the right or wrong part of the discussion!

Happy Frog
05-28-2008, 01:34 PM
Yes it does, indeed.
Time for Hustler to update their manuals... How hard can this be :hammerhead:

Bad Boy Mowers still has the ugliest looking user manual though... :drinkup:

puppypaws
05-28-2008, 01:45 PM
Yes it does, indeed.
Time for Hustler to update their manuals... How hard can this be :hammerhead:

Bad Boy Mowers still has the ugliest looking user manual though... :drinkup:

Explain what makes the Bad Boy manual so bad, I'm just interested. Give me the link to look at the one you are speaking of. Does the manual that is given to the customer when he purchases a new mower look the same as the one printed off the web?

mag360
05-28-2008, 06:40 PM
Well, I suppose that ended the right or wrong part of the discussion!

The new machines that have decks with less suction are "rated" to mow faster than the old decks that had more suction. I think the new wording is related more to the competition's claims than to the actual machines.

One thing that has been proven in this thread is that the super z is the best machine for mowing your farm. I also take note of the fact that even those who had bad results from hustlers still have some good to say about the machine or the company---credit goes to the company for that at the very least.

I'd like to hear from metrolawn---they were running a 30/66 up in michigan last I heard. They mow a lot of grass.

johnnybravo8802
05-28-2008, 07:38 PM
Puppypaws is correct. The most up-to-date information that we publish no longer refers to "transport" speed. Here is the actual copy from the newest spec sheet:

Ground Speed Infinitely variable:
Forward:Super Z: 0-15 mph
Reverse: 0-7.5 mph

The Owner's Manual still has an older version of the spec in it and needs to be updated.


Well, not exactly what I had in mind!!At least one good thing came out of this-I told Hustler my name was "Happy Frog":laugh::laugh::laugh:I'm moving on and getting me a hobby-perhaps making STOP signs:laugh::laugh: :walking:

Happy Frog
05-28-2008, 10:22 PM
Explain what makes the Bad Boy manual so bad, I'm just interested. Give me the link to look at the one you are speaking of. Does the manual that is given to the customer when he purchases a new mower look the same as the one printed off the web?

Here is the link to their only user manual: http://www.badboymowers.com/files.php?id=IdgsKG3KAYXwYwwrDFFQmsoDvmb7UC7Ay3G2HZ8Hk_AF2bpbyQiHORWipbLR9Jbq__QSaOtjPZmiGamEby4wmym yWEh2J5tu78D429lZjvsCF5pcqlRLjZdU
The same one came with my Lightning printed in black & white on cheap paper.
Have a look, you won't believe your eyes... :laugh:

BryceBentleyLCS
05-28-2008, 10:30 PM
Here is the link to their only user manual: http://www.badboymowers.com/files.php?id=IdgsKG3KAYXwYwwrDFFQmsoDvmb7UC7Ay3G2HZ8Hk_AF2bpbyQiHORWipbLR9Jbq__QSaOtjPZmiGamEby4wmym yWEh2J5tu78D429lZjvsCF5pcqlRLjZdU
The same one came with my Lightning printed in black & white on cheap paper.
Have a look, you won't believe your eyes... :laugh:

link doesnt work?:confused:

Happy Frog
05-28-2008, 10:35 PM
It does, it points to a pdf file.
when asked chose "open".
Here is the link to the page:
http://www.badboymowers.com/view/126

puppypaws
05-28-2008, 10:36 PM
Here is the link to their only user manual: http://www.badboymowers.com/files.php?id=IdgsKG3KAYXwYwwrDFFQmsoDvmb7UC7Ay3G2HZ8Hk_AF2bpbyQiHORWipbLR9Jbq__QSaOtjPZmiGamEby4wmym yWEh2J5tu78D429lZjvsCF5pcqlRLjZdU
The same one came with my Lightning printed in black & white on cheap paper.
Have a look, you won't believe your eyes... :laugh:

You are right about that, why would a company so interested in advertising put something of that poor quality out to the public?

"johnnybravo" went and started another thread, the name is
"Hustler Super Z-15MPH!=transport speed", why don't you go and explain to him the operator manual information is old and has not been updated. I am tired of beating this dead horse.

tb8100
05-28-2008, 11:30 PM
Here is the link to their only user manual: http://www.badboymowers.com/files.php?id=IdgsKG3KAYXwYwwrDFFQmsoDvmb7UC7Ay3G2HZ8Hk_AF2bpbyQiHORWipbLR9Jbq__QSaOtjPZmiGamEby4wmym yWEh2J5tu78D429lZjvsCF5pcqlRLjZdU
The same one came with my Lightning printed in black & white on cheap paper.
Have a look, you won't believe your eyes... :laugh:

That is last year's manual....they went to much nicer manuals for 2008 (which were long overdue).

Pix below:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/craq/BadBoyManual.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/craq/BadBoyManual1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/craq/BadBoyManual2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/craq/BadBoyManual3.jpg

Sorry the quality sucks, I just snapped them real fast on my iPhone. Call up Bad Boy and they'll shoot you one if you want.

Skindog
05-28-2008, 11:38 PM
Transport speed - shamsport speed.........my 07 SZ still cuts like crap unless I'm crawling. I'm sick of double cutting............can I put an Exmark deck on a Hustler?Puppypaws is correct. The most up-to-date information that we publish no longer refers to "transport" speed. Here is the actual copy from the newest spec sheet:

Ground Speed Infinitely variable:
Forward:Super Z: 0-15 mph
Reverse: 0-7.5 mph

The Owner's Manual still has an older version of the spec in it and needs to be updated.

Happy Frog
05-28-2008, 11:41 PM
That is last year's manual....they went to much nicer manuals for 2008 (which were long overdue).

Sorry the quality sucks, I just snapped them real fast on my iPhone. Call up Bad Boy and they'll shoot you one if you want.

Sweet!
I want one like that. I'll be calling them in the morning.
Time for Bad Boy to update their web site as well. How hard can this be? :hammerhead:

puppypaws
05-29-2008, 12:05 AM
Sweet!
I want one like that. I'll be calling them in the morning.
Time for Bad Boy to update their web site as well. How hard can this be? :hammerhead:

Now, that is the quality I would expect from Bad Boy, so "Happy Frog" I'm going to come back and say, Hustler does have the worst operators manual on the market. I will say you had me believing I was wrong and was admitting it until I saw the newest operators manual belonging to Bad Boy. Hustler has not even found it necessary to update their written literature in the operators manual for several years, much less make it more appealing to the eye and user.

tb8100
05-29-2008, 12:16 AM
Sweet!
I want one like that. I'll be calling them in the morning.
Time for Bad Boy to update their web site as well. How hard can this be? :hammerhead:

Oh, they have alot of updating to do, like updating engine options (31hp big block Kawi on the 52/60/72 Pup/Lightning units, 27hp Kohler Courage on the ZT, I'm sure others coming soon) .

Also, and this is just an aside, they just started putting a plastic retainer for the seat platform pin on these things as well as not powdercoating the stud they go through. When you call up parts, ask for one of these retainers. Bet they don't charge you for it.

tb8100
05-29-2008, 12:18 AM
Transport speed - shamsport speed.........my 07 SZ still cuts like crap unless I'm crawling. I'm sick of double cutting............can I put an Exmark deck on a Hustler?
Oh, anything is possible with a torch and a welder my friend. :usflag:

Happy Frog
05-29-2008, 01:34 AM
Oh, they have alot of updating to do, like updating engine options (31hp big block Kawi on the 52/60/72 Pup/Lightning units, 27hp Kohler Courage on the ZT, I'm sure others coming soon) .

Also, and this is just an aside, they just started putting a plastic retainer for the seat platform pin on these things as well as not powdercoating the stud they go through. When you call up parts, ask for one of these retainers. Bet they don't charge you for it.

I have a metal safety pin on mine. Works for me.

Happy Frog
05-29-2008, 01:35 AM
Now, that is the quality I would expect from Bad Boy, so "Happy Frog" I'm going to come back and say, Hustler does have the worst operators manual on the market. I will say you had me believing I was wrong and was admitting it until I saw the newest operators manual belonging to Bad Boy. Hustler has not even found it necessary to update their written literature in the operators manual for several years, much less make it more appealing to the eye and user.

You are right again... Dang! :drinkup:

MJB
05-29-2008, 01:38 AM
I have a metal safety pin on mine. Works for me.


When are you going to post more pictures of that BB with the mulcher on it?
Or have you in another forum?

tb8100
05-29-2008, 09:46 AM
I have a metal safety pin on mine. Works for me.

hmm that would work too. Must be a big 'un as it is a big hairpin cotter that have in there. I do have to give Hustler props on their intuitive seat latch though.

Happy Frog
05-29-2008, 11:28 AM
When are you going to post more pictures of that BB with the mulcher on it?
Or have you in another forum?

I have to mow the property today or tomorrow. I'll take some pictures of the cut for the forum. :)

milo
05-30-2008, 02:17 PM
i found a weak link in my hustler superz. they have greaseable spindles but the grease fitting is below the deck.. i did not even know you could grease them, but thats a bad place for a grease fitting.

puppypaws
05-30-2008, 02:54 PM
i found a weak link in my hustler superz. they have greaseable spindles but the grease fitting is below the deck.. i did not even know you could grease them, but thats a bad place for a grease fitting.

You do not need to grease them but once a year and very little then. I have never had or seen any problems with the fittings.

mag360
05-30-2008, 06:06 PM
Anyone know the grease intervals per hustler? 6-700 hours would get us through an entire mowing season which would be great. That's one of the reasons exmark owns the commercial mower market since the 90's---no daily grease points.

Mickhippy
05-30-2008, 07:21 PM
I grease all (10) points except the spindles weekly when busy. Takes all of 3 to 5 mins to do!
Spindles get a couple of squirts every 100hrs or so now. 1100hrs on machine the fittings are still there. They do get dirty but haven't clogged up yet.

TLS
05-30-2008, 10:16 PM
I waited 450hrs to grease the spindles. I think it took all but a full tube for all three the first time. I greased until I started to hear ever so slight crackling through the seals. Then stopped.

Everything else gets greased once a week.

Z-Man
06-09-2008, 09:17 AM
I waited 450hrs to grease the spindles. I think it took all but a full tube for all three the first time. I greased until I started to hear ever so slight crackling through the seals. Then stopped.

Everything else gets greased once a week.

TLS,
How do you like the cut of the RX7 deck? I am looking at the 31/60. I am in Delaware so we should have similar type grass. :usflag:

MJB
06-09-2008, 09:41 AM
TLS,
How do you like the cut of the RX7 deck? I am looking at the 31/60. I am in Delaware so we should have similar type grass. :usflag:
Demo one before you buy it. I'm selling mine mainly because of the cut quality. Otherwise I would keep it. This year has been a wetter year than normal and it shows with the XR7 deck.

MO LAWNCARE
06-10-2008, 03:18 PM
Z-MAN what price where u given on the 31/60 ?

TLS
06-10-2008, 03:35 PM
TLS,
How do you like the cut of the RX7 deck? I am looking at the 31/60. I am in Delaware so we should have similar type grass. :usflag:

I have yet to cut with the new XR-7, I have the first generation XR-7. There are some issues, but by going to a 31hp Big block, you can run any blade you want and NOT have serious power issues....I can barely run the stock blades.

Z-Man
06-10-2008, 03:47 PM
Z-MAN what price where u given on the 31/60 ?

The price quoted was $9800. I'm not sure if this is a good price or not as of yet.

MO LAWNCARE
06-10-2008, 03:48 PM
I Have Been Looking At The 28efi And The 30 Kohler And Wondering If They Would Be Ok On The Super Z 60 Inch?

MO LAWNCARE
06-10-2008, 03:49 PM
Wheres That At Hoobers?

Z-Man
06-10-2008, 03:53 PM
Wheres That At Hoobers?

It was at Woodward Outdoor Equipment. They said that Hoobers is going out of the lawn equip. business and therefore is dropping the Hustler line. I have not talked with Hoobers yet to confirm.

MO LAWNCARE
06-10-2008, 03:56 PM
Hoobers Has A Bunch Of Hustlers They Need To Unload. Go There First And Make A Deal. Woodwards Will Then Do The Warranty Work. Im From Middletown Also
Sorry For The Caps

TomberLawn
06-10-2008, 04:36 PM
I Have Been Looking At The 28efi And The 30 Kohler And Wondering If They Would Be Ok On The Super Z 60 Inch?

The 66" I drove had the 28 efi Kohler. It did well with the 66", so it should be excellent with the 60". I would suggest getting the EFI for better fuel economy and easier starts.

tb8100
06-10-2008, 06:33 PM
The price quoted was $9800. I'm not sure if this is a good price or not as of yet.

That's about what I was quoted at a dealer down here. Seems to be the going rate.

puppypaws
06-10-2008, 07:30 PM
The 66" I drove had the 28 efi Kohler. It did well with the 66", so it should be excellent with the 60". I would suggest getting the EFI for better fuel economy and easier starts.

ANDY, CALL ME AT HOME!

puppypaws
06-11-2008, 01:51 PM
That's about what I was quoted at a dealer down here. Seems to be the going rate.

My dealer is $8999.00 for the 31/60 Super Z.

If anyone close to me wants a perfect 28 efi/66" Super Z mine is for sale, $7000.00. I'm getting a new one exactly the same as the one I have now. Hustler had a price increase the first of June and this mower new with tax will be around $10,100.00.

GrassMastersKS
06-11-2008, 06:01 PM
I have recently purchased the hustler mini Z 52" and it has been a wonderful addition. The mower blew my opinions away about buying a Scag or Exmark. The mowers are built and assembled about 5 miles from my home so the prices are nicer as well.

chesterlawn
06-11-2008, 06:23 PM
I have a lazer and I cut side by side with hustlers on some lawns. No comparison, exmark is a quality cut, hustler may be faster but the cut isn't there.

capnsac
06-11-2008, 06:31 PM
worst
cub tank
gravely.

why do you say cub tank as one of the worst?

mowerconsultant
06-12-2008, 12:31 AM
Hustler had a price increase the first of June

We / Hustler did not have a price increase the first of June, our prices are the same as they have been since last fall.
I was at Chads for a few hours today, I was there when you called, was looking for ya... lol.... :)

puppypaws
06-12-2008, 01:30 AM
We / Hustler did not have a price increase the first of June, our prices are the same as they have been since last fall.
I was at Chads for a few hours today, I was there when you called, was looking for ya... lol.... :)

I was quoting what Chad said, I find this very interesting ???????:confused:

puppypaws
06-12-2008, 08:22 AM
We / Hustler did not have a price increase the first of June, our prices are the same as they have been since last fall.
I was at Chads for a few hours today, I was there when you called, was looking for ya... lol.... :)

PJ, I was told by Chad, "Hustler had a price increase June first", he then said a 66"/28efi that I could sell for around 9000.00 will be in the 9500.00 range.

I told him what you said this morning, and he told me he worded it badly. He said it was costing him more to get the same unit into his inventory, therefore he was having to increase prices.

I want you to come back in here and explain what is going on price wise. I do not like to post incorrect information and will apologize if I am incorrect about anything I say.

This needs to be clarified!:dizzy:

KevinACrider
06-12-2008, 09:05 AM
PJ, I was told by Chad, "Hustler had a price increase June first", he then said a 66"/28efi that I could sell for around 9000.00 will be in the 9500.00 range.

I told him what you said this morning, and he told me he worded it badly. He said it was costing him more to get the same unit into his inventory, therefore he was having to increase prices.

I want you to come back in here and explain what is going on price wise. I do not like to post incorrect information and will apologize if I am incorrect about anything I say.

This needs to be clarified!:dizzy:

Maybe the freight charges to get them delivered have gone up?

fastcat
06-12-2008, 09:56 AM
i deal with chad alot when i buy equipment. you do mean chad with w lawn and garden right. he is who i bought my bobcat and other handheld equiptment from. how do you like dealing with them.

retrodog
06-12-2008, 09:58 AM
Yeah, that happened to me too, freight is going up across the board I guess. These prices for everything is forcing these truckers to go up substantially just to keep running the roads. I was at the station getting diesel the other day, and saw $1400 on the pump from the person before me! I asked the clerk about it, and she said thats pretty average for a big truck now $1300 to $1400 to fill up! Not to mention tire increases, oil, food, lodging, etc. I see big trucks for sale everywhere for cheap. Although $500 more per mower does sound a little high.....

MO LAWNCARE
06-12-2008, 10:45 AM
ok heres the deal with hustler in delaware. i run a 60 inch toro with turbo force deck. my cousin has a superz 60 inch with 30 kohler. on junk weedy grass he can run 15 miles an hour and cut perfect at 3inch or 2.75. which is the height we cut around here. when it comes to a nice quality grass yard he has to slow down to get the same cut but only to around 10 miles an hour. thats all the faster ther toro will cut anyway. and the nicer grass usually is cut at 3.75 inchs . now the toro leaves a much nicer cut and a better stripe. but at 15 miles an hour he can cut alot more grass than me. i have some three acre yards that i cut and i have ciut these yards with 2 toros. when i cut with a toro and the hustler its wayyyyy faster. if anyone wants a pair of bad assssssssss cutting mowers get a toro and a hustler. the toro has a offset deck to trim with . use the toro to trim out the yard and and cut the front yard for the deep dark stripes . then have the other person on the hustler run the rest of the yard. makes quick work out of any yard. u cant beat that combo .

tb8100
06-12-2008, 11:02 AM
PJ, I was told by Chad, "Hustler had a price increase June first", he then said a 66"/28efi that I could sell for around 9000.00 will be in the 9500.00 range.

I told him what you said this morning, and he told me he worded it badly. He said it was costing him more to get the same unit into his inventory, therefore he was having to increase prices.

I want you to come back in here and explain what is going on price wise. I do not like to post incorrect information and will apologize if I am incorrect about anything I say.

This needs to be clarified!:dizzy:

Everybody is going up across the board, 3-6%. Thank the rising fuel costs for making virtually every component of these mowers go up in price. (Not to mention freight is more too).

If you're planning on buying new equipment, buy now! Next month alot of price increases set in!

retrodog
06-12-2008, 11:24 AM
Everybody is going up across the board, 3-6%. Thank the rising fuel costs for making virtually every component of these mowers go up in price. (Not to mention freight is more too).

If you're planning on buying new equipment, buy now! Next month alot of price increases set in!

I concur, July 1st is the increase for most companies, if your gonna buy this year get it this month!

TexasBlue
06-12-2008, 02:38 PM
The reality of "if you bought it, a trucker brought it" will hit most items ...if [it] is small and/or weighs little, the impact will not be as noticable. Everything will have to find the correct balance point.

With pressure to get more corn for ethanol production, the price for corn stock is soaring. This affects all feedstock ranchers so beef, etc will be more pricey. Many farmers are getting out of ranching due to the value of planting corn versus growing hay to feed their cattle. This is only the beginning. We will see some tough times and I think the pendulum will swing both directions. Expect to see a lot of used commercial gear showing up soon when the cost of running an operation gets worse. The price for new gear at the end of the year likely be pretty good after the current "scare" of a price increase gets all the current buyers to update their equipment and when carrying inventory will have a bigger concern for dealers with an even gloomier outlook for spring 2009.

puppypaws
06-12-2008, 02:44 PM
i deal with chad alot when i buy equipment. you do mean chad with w lawn and garden right. he is who i bought my bobcat and other handheld equiptment from. how do you like dealing with them.

Chad's dad Ronnie and I grew up together and went to different schools at the same time (don't let that throw you). I've known Chad, since he was born and as far as I am concerned there is not a better person made than Chad Whitley. That is also the reason he has been a top single store dealer for Hustler and the tops in sales for Bobcat last year.

That is why I called him this morning and said "Chad, you told me Hustler went up June first on their mowers and Mower Consultant (Hustler representative) came in the thread and said, Hustler did not have a price increase the first of June, our prices are the same as they have been since last fall". He then said "I meant the price I pay per unit delivered to me is up about 4". I told him "that did not mean Hustler's prices had gone up the first of June, that meant his price to replace stock had gone up and the wording he used was entirely wrong". I said "when I say something I want it to be fact and that was not fact and has nothing to do with Hustler's pricing".

He agreed it was a misrepresentation to me on his part and said "that is one reason, he hates for things to get on the Internet, sometimes it confuses people". I said, "that is not a problem, when you state facts you can prove facts".

He is too young to be having "senior moments", so I would just call that a error in thought process.