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milo
05-23-2008, 11:52 PM
if anyone is gonna start a lawncare business this season or next few dont bother.. with the price of gas and where gas is suppost to be next year (over 5.00) trust me this is not a good business to get into. and if the news stations are right saying in 10 to 15 years it will be 15.00 a gallon how in the world will anyone still pay for there grass to be cut at what we will have to charge..

next, the goverment keeps saying global warming and about how we need more resources because oils not it and yet not doing nothing but blaming the people.. why dont our goverment do like brazil and make gas with sugar??????????????????????:confused::confused::hammerhead: 1.00 a gallon and burns clean.. i will tell you why, because some people in goverment making a ton of money out of the oil thing. soon we will be a country like in back to the future 2 where only a few so will have rights and money and the rest will be homeless with nothing and no rights.

JB1
05-23-2008, 11:54 PM
if you drink more, it really doesn't look to bad.

CFB
05-24-2008, 12:17 AM
Post is right on however. At $4.15 now. Will keep gowing up...next year maybe $7/gallon. The only LCO's that remain are the ones that do high ends for way more than they are worth. I know of one in my area that consistintly got work on $35 lawns and charges $75. It is going to be next to impossible to make money in this business for "most" of us. One thing is the lowballers every bitches about will be all toast in on fell swoop before they even had a chance to realize it. What's next?

The neigbor hood kids with a 21 and a trimmer will get all the biz cause almost no one will pay the necessary prices to make money. And a few that LCO's working their butts off to barely survive.

We should all get together and team up. Pull our trailors with bicycles, innovate "the mower bike" could be a decent product and if you are getting a bad cut, you know the reason...its the bicycle drivin blade belt opperator. Plus we would get in great shape. I'm a genious.

jrush
05-24-2008, 12:18 AM
I don't get it either... We can make fuel out of damn near anything, corn, sugar, bio diesel, etc... Why the hell are we paying big business, and the countries that hate us billions of dollars annually? Damn right something could be done, but think of all the campaign $ and tax dollars that would be lost! Forget the Boston tea party, we need to do something NOW! Why do they charge that? Cause they can. Ooooh congress has talked to them on their prices..That's like talking to me about the problems with strippers, I would listen but this lap dance is awsome!! Time for less talk and more action to be taken!!

MileHigh
05-24-2008, 12:23 AM
Thanks all for the horrible posts suggesting our lives aren't going to work out cutting grass.

I think the gas prices will just weed out the wanna-be's out there and let us real lco's rake it in.

There will always be people/businesses that need there darn lawns maintained. PERIOD..People just don't have the time...I do.

milo
05-24-2008, 12:34 AM
Thanks all for the horrible posts suggesting our lives aren't going to work out cutting grass.

I think the gas prices will just weed out the wanna-be's out there and let us real lco's rake it in.

There will always be people/businesses that need there darn lawns maintained. PERIOD..People just don't have the time...I do.


they might need it done but good luck with them paying you on time or at all. and plus the cost to operate will be soooo high.. i can do simple math,
if gas is 5.00 a gallon and you get 10mpg pulling trailer in truck and have one yard 5 miles away thats a 30.00 cut well thats -5.00 to get there and back and about -1.00 in equipmant. so 24.00 before taxes for a total of 1 hour of my life.. i could do better getting a real job without the headaches.

saw man
05-24-2008, 01:29 AM
That is why you run your business smarter!!

The Rookie
05-24-2008, 01:33 AM
I think I am going to purchase an 18 inch reel mower with roller to mow grass with.:laugh::drinkup:

The Rookie
05-24-2008, 01:36 AM
Oh! I almost forgot, a stick edger and a pair of scissors.

XterraJohn
05-24-2008, 01:54 AM
The only LCO's that remain are the ones that do high ends for way more than they are worth.

If that's what it takes to remain in business, then how are they charging more than it is worth? If everyone who charges less has their business fail because they couldn't make a profit, then it sounds like they were charging LESS than it is worth.

I see a lot of these complaint threads talking about how this isn't a good business to get into if the economy is going to crash. Exactly what type of business do you think is NOT going to have problems with $15/gal gas prices? I don't think there are very many.

The Rookie
05-24-2008, 02:02 AM
Back in the early 80's lawn care was a father teaching a son about responsibility. Mowing lawns has really just been around since the early
1900's. The economy is so shaky that I can see a posibility of maybe the earth reverting back to forest in areas just because of the inability to farm, or raise livestock, ect. mowing yards will become a family recreation. I'm just rambling but really, what does the future hold for any business, right on man

Steveslawncare
05-24-2008, 02:43 AM
Exactly what type of business do you think is NOT going to have problems with $15/gal gas prices? I don't think there are very many.


x2, right on.

topsites
05-24-2008, 03:36 AM
next, the goverment keeps saying global warming and about how we need more resources because oils not it and yet not doing nothing but blaming the people.. why dont our goverment do like brazil and make gas with sugar??????????????????????:confused::confused::hammerhead: 1.00 a gallon and burns clean.. i will tell you why, because some people in goverment making a ton of money out of the oil thing. soon we will be a country like in back to the future 2 where only a few so will have rights and money and the rest will be homeless with nothing and no rights.

No sugar cane doesn't burn clean at all, Brazil is one of the largest contributors to atmospheric pollution because of it... Nothing to do with the final product, it's how it has to be harvested that does it, they literally BURN the fields so it's easier to gather and it's nothing but pure manual labor (think dirty, soot, sweat and hard work).

But I see things different...
What I see one is we're going to proudly BURN that petrol with stiff upper lips until judgment day, and we will fight and pay and complain over it, duking it out in semi-senseless Terminator and Mad Max styles. I always thought it'd be kinda cool anyhow, them movies was all about the poor people actually coming out ahead, you don't see the rich ones doing much but scrambling frantically all around in the final hours, I felt that was somehow appropriate... Which is still wrong, but...

And two is that this whole thing is nothing but...
Now wait one second before you get excited because I could be very wrong,
and if I am and you believe otherwise then watch the hell out LOL...
That having been said, you ready?

Get this:
A BIG nasty ueber stupid secret media and government and mega-corporate conspiracy, a hoax that is, but one made so REAL that dare you not believe it? But still a conspiracy, the end of the world hoax all over again to SCARE the CRAP out of you and me (yes I have to admit it appears to be working) when in fact we got all the oil we want and need but we don't want anyone to know it (just yet). Then in time to come they will slowly but surely let the cat back out of the bag and all things return to normal (now this time thou I think 'normal' is relative) and everyone gets back to work and minding their business as if nothing ever happened.

Let's see, y2k bug anyone?

On the other hand that stuff about $10 and $15 a gallon fuel LOL try $100 and more! And I'm dead serious too because I'm fixing to go burn OFF a few more in 360cid EFI V8 horsepower deep throttle ways, or redneck fashion for short.

So I don't know, but I dare say it's going to get awful dang interesting.

BlackCloudDiesel
05-24-2008, 03:44 AM
Either way- a lot of us are going to be screwed before long. Here in Milwaukee diesel hit $4.95 a gallon today. At that rate I'm spending $1,500 to $2,000 a day keeping my equipment running. Even with fuel surcharges things are getting hard. People are just getting tight. Everyone is running out of money and it's all going to the big oil companies making a record breaking 40 billion in PROFIT. If the news is right and we endup paying $15.00 a gallon there will be rioting to no end. Kind of sad to look back and think $4.00 a gallon in cheap for fuel.

topsites
05-24-2008, 03:58 AM
Thanks all for the horrible posts suggesting our lives aren't going to work out cutting grass.

I think the gas prices will just weed out the wanna-be's out there and let us real lco's rake it in.

There will always be people/businesses that need there darn lawns maintained. PERIOD..People just don't have the time...I do.

No but it is what we've ALL been saying, anyone with many years in this business have said it and it will be said time and again until it sinks in: This is a BAD time to be getting into this.

And this is NOT naysaying, it is the truth.
That's what we're trying to tell these folks, been trying to tell them, and will keep telling them, yes sir, so that can't nobody say we didn't mention it when they end up finding themselves all sweaty and dirty and pissed off because they're still broke lol

Because we told you so, so if you lost money that's why, but just in case it didn't register here it goes one more time:
This is NOT a good time to be getting into this business.

XterraJohn
05-24-2008, 04:40 AM
Everyone is running out of money and it's all going to the big oil companies making a record breaking 40 billion in PROFIT.

I don't really buy that. It is said that the united states consumes roughly 400,000,000 gallons of gasoline PER DAY. From what I've seen, State and Federal taxes on average are .39/gal, which means that $56,940,000,000 goes to nothing other than tax. If gasoline prices are $3.50 per gallon, then we spend
$511,000,000,000 on gas per year. So if the oil companies are only getting $40,000,000,000 per year in profit, that means that their profit margin is what, roughly 7.8%?

Do you think that 7.8% is an unreasonable profit? What profit do you want the oil companies to make?

XterraJohn
05-24-2008, 04:45 AM
To look at it another way, lets assume that we force the oil companies to operate with ZERO profit. So, out of the roughly $511,000,000,000 spent on gas in a year, lets subtract their 40,000,000,000 profit. So now we're only spending 471,000,000,000 per year on gas. Divide that by 365 days in the year, then divide by the 400,000,000 gallons of gas used per day, and what do we have?

Gasoline going for roughly $3.22 per gallon. :rolleyes:

heather lawn sp
05-24-2008, 05:12 AM
We will figure out how to go on. There are a few of us ancient relics that remember gas for lawnmowers at $0.50 a gallon

bill8379
05-24-2008, 05:26 AM
It will just make being in this business tougher. That's ok with me, maybe it will thin out the competition.

corey4671
05-24-2008, 07:00 AM
just shut up and mow

jeffex
05-24-2008, 07:19 AM
It will just make us better business people. Lower HP mowers and smaller trucks and trailers. Like someone already posted it will effect EVERY business in every way. If you don't raise prices you will fade away from absorbing costs. If you loose customers from price increases look for better ones. My walkbehind 15 HP kohlers sip gas and can do the same lawn as most 27Hp lazers. It just takes longer. The balance between time and cost will settle itself out. the greatest impact is the large commercial guys with diesel trucks and hudge trailers who spend thousands just on fuel. They are like trucking companies.

Ford2000
05-24-2008, 07:24 AM
just shut up and mow

Simple and to the point.LOVE IT.:clapping::clapping:

MOW ED
05-24-2008, 07:46 AM
Suddenly all the guys that were mowing for beer money have found that they only have money for a 40 instead of a 6 pack. Next year it will only be enough for 1 can. Its survival of the fittest. If you are a "business owner" then you know what it takes to run a business, anyone can mow lawn.

Charles
05-24-2008, 08:38 AM
I don't really buy that. It is said that the united states consumes roughly 400,000,000 gallons of gasoline PER DAY. From what I've seen, State and Federal taxes on average are .39/gal, which means that $56,940,000,000 goes to nothing other than tax. If gasoline prices are $3.50 per gallon, then we spend
$511,000,000,000 on gas per year. So if the oil companies are only getting $40,000,000,000 per year in profit, that means that their profit margin is what, roughly 7.8%?

Do you think that 7.8% is an unreasonable profit? What profit do you want the oil companies to make?

That Texas spin. Are all babies in Texas born with "Only 8% Profit Margin" T-shirts?:laugh: Get real! No matter what the price is at the pump, the oil men say they only make 8% profit---.99 cent--8%---$1.25--8%--$4.50--8%:hammerhead:
I think a State Of Emergency should be declared so we can prepare for the worst case scenario. Food prices will skyrocket. 10s of 1000s will be out of work. Airlines have already lost $3 billion for example. City and state services will be curtailed. We are heading for a disaster if prices continue to rise.
Ya many LCO's will go under. Many homeowners will have to cut back on lawn care. We are really going into uncharted waters folks and don't be under the illusion that the government is prepared for the worst case scenario. I think the government has sold us out to campaign money....

lawnwizards
05-24-2008, 08:58 AM
just the media putting the scare into people. gas will go back down after labor day. just watch and see.

mlyons1
05-24-2008, 09:05 AM
what i don"t understand is why this country helps out the other countries with their problems when we have so many problems of our own we can"t solve they send money and aid to these countries when we have starving families living on the street and people who cannot afford to go to the doctor because they can"t afford insurance but yet will send billions of dollars to other countries in aid and will not take care of their own that's like your child is sick and the neighbor child is sick and you take him to the doctor and not your own child.

lawnman_scott
05-24-2008, 09:07 AM
they might need it done but good luck with them paying you on time or at all. and plus the cost to operate will be soooo high.. i can do simple math,
if gas is 5.00 a gallon and you get 10mpg pulling trailer in truck and have one yard 5 miles away thats a 30.00 cut well thats -5.00 to get there and back and about -1.00 in equipmant. so 24.00 before taxes for a total of 1 hour of my life.. i could do better getting a real job without the headaches.So the moral of the story is that people that cant figure out what needs to be done to make a profit will keep a job working for someone else instead of going into business for themselves? Sounds good to me.

Charles
05-24-2008, 09:11 AM
just the media putting the scare into people. gas will go back down after labor day. just watch and see.

Just why would the media want to put a scare into people? I don't need the media to scare me. All I have to do is look at pump prices going up every day. They have been going up drastically for the past 3 years. What is so significant about Labor day? Thats the problem and part of the brain washing. Americans keep putting off drastic measures in HOPE that a magic wand will make prices soon go down. We need to prepare for the worst case scenario and not keep following a pipe dream. We need to take drastic measures to find and implement the use of alternative fuels. Not just hope that someday prices will come down. Not just blame the media

amor4421
05-24-2008, 09:56 AM
I don't think people are looking at the big picture. Yes alternative fuels are good to look into, but at what cost will we pay for those fuels? How much money will the new engines cost to build? When will they be ready? Will only the rich be able to afford these new engines? How much will it cost to put up new stations for these fuels? I heard that there is an oil supply in the u.s., somewhere near the grand canyon orthe mid west, but that we can't drill for it because the enviromentalist won't allow it. I my be wrong but I know there are oil fields in texas that we drill and ones in the gulf of mexico. Were is that oil going? How much is there? I want prices to go down. But have you noticed at the store that food is going up too. It is just a bad time for the u.s. right now.

Mike Blevins
05-24-2008, 10:11 AM
Just why would the media want to put a scare into people? I don't need the media to scare me. All I have to do is look at pump prices going up every day. They have been going up drastically for the past 3 years. What is so significant about Labor day? Thats the problem and part of the brain washing. Americans keep putting off drastic measures in HOPE that a magic wand will make prices soon go down. We need to prepare for the worst case scenario and not keep following a pipe dream. We need to take drastic measures to find and implement the use of alternative fuels. Not just hope that someday prices will come down. Not just blame the media

It a proven that gas prices always go up in the summer months. It went to mid to high 3.00 here last year and dropped back in the high two dollar range in the winter. I watched one of those gas CEO on television a couple of nights ago. He said one thing that opened my eyes. The oil companies are making record profits BUT they are also paying record TAXES! That is why the gas prices are high. Do I agree with this? I don't know. All I know is if you look at how many of gallons of gas is used each day, and how many people depend on it I wonder why it isn't 10.00 a gallon already. Lawncare companies aren't the only people that this has effect on. Its not just a company that is the one getting screwed. Its everbody, crime is on the rise,people aren't making enough to live on,its taking food off of people's tables,its making food and hard good prices go to all time high, etc. It the world we live in. I'm not even going to get started on the up coming election. It will probably get worse before it gets better. But I think it will get better.

k911lowe
05-24-2008, 10:16 AM
whah whah see all you whiners.more business for us.you just have to stop complaining and use your brain.

JohnnyRoyale
05-24-2008, 10:54 AM
What percantage of your monthly expenses is your fuel bill? Maybe its time to get off our asses and invest in oil.

milo
05-24-2008, 10:54 AM
you people seem to think 3.00 a gallon is a deal????? gas should be 1.50 a gallon.. see the government brain washed alot of you people too.
see seeing gas close to 4.00 now and talk about 5.00 to 7.00 next year 3.00 sounds like a deal (and it is compaired to those prices) but the point is its not right......

im for all the truckers in america parking their trucks all over highways and leaving them sit to shut down the country..

next thing if we have all this oil anywhere why arent we drilling? 2 reasons, either the right people are making a ton of money the way it is or there is no shoratge..

my next point is this, government and others found a way to cash in on others people problems (like katrina and 9/11) and now were all paying.. i wish every time i cut a yard and there was a piece of dog sh:t i can say well there was 1 piece of sh:t in the yard last cut so thats a extra 20.00 a cut. or well i need a new 9000.00 mower this month so now this months cuts are going to be 20.00 more. in business we take hits and have good days too. seems our country dont look at it like this.

lawnman_scott
05-24-2008, 12:47 PM
I watched one of those gas CEO on television a couple of nights ago. He said one thing that opened my eyes. The oil companies are making record profits BUT they are also paying record TAXES! That is why the gas prices are high. Do I agree with this? Wow, you mean if you make more money you pay more tax??? So if the tax rate is 10% I will pay more tax if I make $100 than if I make $50? Kind of common sence don't you think? And its not the reason gas prices are so high.

Johnson LCO
05-24-2008, 01:05 PM
People thought it was the end of the world when gas hit a buck a gallon. Guess what, life went on.
Have any of you ever heard of ratcheting up? That is what will happen. Everything will increase in price and eventually peoples wages will follow. For a while there will be hard times (like right now) but things will level out. Either that or the dollar will get stronger, causing gas prices to come down as well.

XterraJohn
05-24-2008, 05:06 PM
That Texas spin. Are all babies in Texas born with "Only 8% Profit Margin" T-shirts?:laugh: Get real! No matter what the price is at the pump, the oil men say they only make 8% profit---.99 cent--8%---$1.25--8%--$4.50--8%:hammerhead:


I came up with the 8% using YOUR OWN NUMBER for what you said the oil companies make in profit in a year. Feel free to show me the math if you disagree with anything that I have written.

bill8379
05-24-2008, 05:18 PM
im for all the truckers in america parking their trucks all over highways and leaving them sit to shut down the country..

NOW I know why GW Bush wants that Mexican Super Highway... It's all making sense now.

LawnBrother
05-24-2008, 05:43 PM
If anything I think the higher gas prices will result in more solo ops running 21" mowers out of the back of hybrid or 4 cyl. pickups. ZTR's guzzle gas and so do the trucks that haul the trailers. I foresee a lot of competition in the residential market.

doubleedge
05-24-2008, 06:11 PM
Arguing on this forum will help nothing, voting for the right people this year will. Remember to vote for people this year that support coal to oil, opening the coast and Alaska for drilling, etc. The oil companies make tiny profit margins after taxes, so they can't lower prices much more.

Liendeni
05-24-2008, 06:32 PM
I think, just like everybody else, that gas prices suck...but I'm not buying into the "sky is falling....the sky is falling" mentality.

Moving goods via trucking, sea vessels, or air has skyrocketed much more than mowing lawns. Do you think anybody manufacturing, transporting, and selling goods is going to go under?

I have a hard time finding almost any business or indivdual person who has not been affected by the gas prices. I just made $275 in 4 hours and 15 minutes. I think I will keep mowing for a while longer.

lawnman_scott
05-24-2008, 06:38 PM
If anything I think the higher gas prices will result in more solo ops running 21" mowers out of the back of hybrid or 4 cyl. pickups. ZTR's guzzle gas and so do the trucks that haul the trailers. I foresee a lot of competition in the residential market.I bet I can pull around my gas guzzeling ztr with my big deisel truck and still make more money than someone with a 21" mower can.

rock18201
05-24-2008, 07:31 PM
it can also be made from grass clippings. I am filling my dump up with grass twice daily.... Imagine the money we may get for clippings!!!

Frue
05-24-2008, 08:41 PM
Just why would the media want to put a scare into people? I don't need the media to scare me. All I have to do is look at pump prices going up every day. They have been going up drastically for the past 3 years. What is so significant about Labor day? Thats the problem and part of the brain washing. Americans keep putting off drastic measures in HOPE that a magic wand will make prices soon go down. We need to prepare for the worst case scenario and not keep following a pipe dream. We need to take drastic measures to find and implement the use of alternative fuels. Not just hope that someday prices will come down. Not just blame the media

hard to implement other fuel sources when exxon keeps buying them out like ethonol plants that are supposed to be all over but somehow they get bought out and never get online. I wonder why now we here it cost more to make ethonol then gas hmmmmmm i wonder who is behind that propaganda couldnt be big oil?

lawnwizards
05-24-2008, 09:19 PM
Just why would the media want to put a scare into people? I don't need the media to scare me. All I have to do is look at pump prices going up every day. They have been going up drastically for the past 3 years. What is so significant about Labor day? Thats the problem and part of the brain washing. Americans keep putting off drastic measures in HOPE that a magic wand will make prices soon go down. We need to prepare for the worst case scenario and not keep following a pipe dream. We need to take drastic measures to find and implement the use of alternative fuels. Not just hope that someday prices will come down. Not just blame the media

o.k. smart guy. who reports the supposed shortage of oil? johnny numbnuts down the street didnt come up with the idea. it came from the media. the media is in the back pockets of the oil tycoons and will report anything to scare the general public and make them think that the oil supply is running low to justify the rising fuel costs. i guess when youre rambo, you can put crap in your tank and make it run.

CrystalCreek
05-24-2008, 09:36 PM
We will figure out how to go on. There are a few of us ancient relics that remember gas for lawnmowers at $0.50 a gallon

I wish there was more of you so called ancient relics out there. I would honor the chance to pick your brains. I have always had a deep respect for the wisdom and experience of the wise old man.

Captain cut-some-grass
05-24-2008, 10:00 PM
Amen, Brother

LawnScapers of Dayton
05-24-2008, 10:12 PM
that wierd because the local landscape radio show guy was just discussing this morning how the green industry boomed in the 70's with that energy crisis.....based on the fact that people stayed home and spent their money there.

Let see here......15 years ago gas was about $1.00 per gallon......now it is $4.00 per gallon........so in 15 more years it will be $16 a gallon.........sounds about right......

Gotta run ....I need to go search the Constitution for where it says the government has to provide cheap energy to the lazy people......I missed that part before...

LawnScapers of Dayton
05-24-2008, 10:15 PM
it is really strange how......OPEC drives up the price of raw crude......and the price of gas goes up right with it............man I just can figure this out.......

LawnScapers of Dayton
05-24-2008, 10:18 PM
our idiot congress wants other countries to up production......while failing to do right by us and domestically tap our own resources.......

mattfromNY
05-24-2008, 10:33 PM
Actual numbers, today I mowed 17 lawns solo, used 11 gallons of gas between my truck and mowers. Lets assume gas has increased $1.00/ gallon. So far this year I have increased my prices to all of my customers an average of $5.00/ lawn. I lost a few customers, but today my price increases grossed me $85.00 more, and only cost me $11.00 more in gas cost. The one thing about gas prices being all the hype, everyone is EXPECTING us to raise our prices. If we wait until the gas prices level out, we will miss the boat.

J & D Greens
05-24-2008, 11:04 PM
Gosh, when I mowed for the professional crew 5 men tandem trailer 3/4 ton Dodge W/Dump bed, gas was 25 cents a gallon. Life was good! Now many are saying it is a bad time to get into this bis. Well I would say if you don't charge enough that is going to be true. Only go with your bid if the customer can handle at least 25% higher than what you used to bid on the same lawn. I know this seems crazy but that is the only way we won't go under. There will be a big fall out of all the other under cutters and we will have the opportunity to get back some good accounts and make things a lot better.
Stick to it and the cream now will definitely rise to the top!!!!

Albemarle Lawn
05-24-2008, 11:37 PM
The federal government makes about $1.64 off each gallon of gas.

Diesel fuel price: $4.60
Profit: $3.50

tax on profit at 40% corporate rate: $1.40
federal excise tax: $.24

Total $1.64 to the federal government. If diesel goes back to $.89 where it should be, the government's take goes to about $.30.

milo
05-25-2008, 12:19 AM
well all i know is if no one resolves the price of gas soon were all screwed... and its funny that alot of people on here think paying 3.00 a gallon is a great deal for gas, that just shows that the media and government brain washed you to make that the standard and your falling for it... middle east says they have oil for at least next 80 years, we suppost have alottt up in alaska plus tons in canada. so why 3.00 a gallon:hammerhead::confused::confused: should be 1.50 a gallon..

if you people think now 3.00 is a deal they got you and your falling for what they are trying to do:dizzy:.....

milo
05-25-2008, 12:23 AM
The federal government makes about $1.64 off each gallon of gas.

Diesel fuel price: $4.60
Profit: $3.50

tax on profit at 40% corporate rate: $1.40
federal excise tax: $.24

Total $1.64 to the federal government. If diesel goes back to $.89 where it should be, the government's take goes to about $.30.

if what you wrote is true you get it then too. just cant beleave the rest of the USA does not.

KrayzKajun
05-25-2008, 12:40 AM
[QUOTE=BladeScape;2338046]

I think the gas prices will just weed out the wanna-be's out there and let us real lco's rake it in.

QUOTE]
I agree!! :clapping::clapping:

milo
05-25-2008, 12:44 AM
Actual numbers, today I mowed 17 lawns solo, used 11 gallons of gas between my truck and mowers. Lets assume gas has increased $1.00/ gallon. So far this year I have increased my prices to all of my customers an average of $5.00/ lawn. I lost a few customers, but today my price increases grossed me $85.00 more, and only cost me $11.00 more in gas cost. The one thing about gas prices being all the hype, everyone is EXPECTING us to raise our prices. If we wait until the gas prices level out, we will miss the boat.


you dont get it, your looking at a tiny picture.. you netted $74.00 more in a day, now go to the food store and buy eggs that were.89c for dozen large eggs, same eggs now are 1.75 a dozen now buy milk, cerial, toilet paper and whatever else you buy and do your math again. so in the front end might look better but in the end your loosing...
since katrina hit gas is up like 114% thats right 114% even after 9/11 people went crazy when gas went over 2.00 for like 1 week then back to 1.65 was not to bad. now still after katrina 2 puls yars later now theres a short in oil???????? from a hurricane 2 plus years ago???????

now back to your net 74.00. say a 30.00 yard you now do for 35.00 you only went up like 15% so point is to catch up you need to mow more lawns which adds up to more wear and tear on equiment and dont forget cost of tires went up too. my point is the whole country is loosing because of this, not just grass cutters but your not ahead unless you doing more lawns, not because you raised your price 15% compaired to everything like necessaties going up like 100% your loosing so till your prices go up like 60% then you will be ahead and also good luck keeping them accounts.

whoopassonthebluegrass
05-25-2008, 01:05 AM
If the news is right and we endup paying $15.00 a gallon there will be rioting to no end.

Sounds good to me. REVOLUTION!!! The government is a huge, larded, in-everyone's-business atrocity. Perhaps it's time to take back the US of A. Let's get back to the point where the government just protects the people and maintains order.

No handouts, no freebies, no research, no giving things away for public relations... Big military, tiny government... and let capitalism level out our personal lives - not Uncle Sam.

CGlisson
05-25-2008, 01:13 AM
Sounds good to me. REVOLUTION!!! The government is a huge, larded, in-everyone's-business atrocity. Perhaps it's time to take back the US of A. Let's get back to the point where the government just protects the people and maintains order.

No handouts, no freebies, no research, no giving things away for public relations... Big military, tiny government... and let capitalism level out our personal lives - not Uncle Sam.

thata boy whoopa$$....you're right on the money

Chilehead
05-25-2008, 01:25 AM
I have seriously considered mowers with EFI, and LG powered trucks. I looked at the price of making biodiesel and it comes out to about $2.25 a gallon. The machine/kit to make it costs $3000.00. It really wouln't be that long for it to pay for itself, and if that was the case I'd buy diesel mowers.

Albemarle Lawn
05-25-2008, 02:05 AM
I suspect you are figuring free waste oil and no limit to how much you can get.

If that's true, then your point is valid. BUT, seems like there are people scrounging up the oil everywhere and it's to the point they are actually PAYING for used oil.

Don't count on an endless supply of free waste oil.

Liendeni
05-25-2008, 02:08 AM
Man....I know the gas prices suck but damn....are there alot of whinner on here. No offense but I actually have a masters degree that cost me almost 80K. I now mow lawns because I enjoy it...ya, I know...not what you want to hear...but what do you expect when this is an industry that takes nothing more than a lawn mower and a way to transport it....ie. truck, trunk, mowped. You get out of live what out put into it and I hear a great many people ***** about how they "deserve" $60 an hour for....what...honestly....riding around on a ZTR that you happen to put money on.

Maybe some of you fertilizer guys....muitiple license guys out there....but when you are doing something anybody with the credit to purchase a mower and a trailer can do...don't expect the world.

I am new to this but at least I am realistic. Ya, I know....alot of you guys are going to get mad at me and preach insurance, gas, taxes....whatever. Most of us, you, whatever, would make no where near even $20 an hour working a 9-5.

I think the vast majority of lawn people are extremely spoiled and extremely unrealistic.

If you can't suck it up or don't like it....why are you not doing something else???

My point exactly!!

If it was that ruff...and there were better options for you...than you'd be doing it.

I think alot of guys on here are simply trying to lower the competitioin by staying...."if you are just starting out.....don't bother." Businesses succeed and fail every day. Its what you make of it.

Gas increase or not.

Tired of hearing people ***** on here. I have a wife for that. If you want to get out....get out....otherwise....say something worth a Sh*t. Ya, I'm grumpy tonight. Just tired of hearing all the negative and bitching. Sorry.

Chilehead
05-25-2008, 02:14 AM
Man....I know the gas prices suck but damn....are there alot of whinner on here. No offense but I actually have a masters degree that cost me almost 80K. I now mow lawns because I enjoy it...ya, I know...not what you want to hear...but what do you expect when this is an industry that takes nothing more than a lawn mower and a way to transport it....ie. truck, trunk, mowped. You get out of live what out put into it and I hear a great many people ***** about how they "deserve" $60 an hour for....what...honestly....riding around on a ZTR that you happen to put money on.

Maybe some of you fertilizer guys....muitiple license guys out there....but when you are doing something anybody with the credit to purchase a mower and a trailer can do...don't expect the world.

I am new to this but at least I am realistic. Ya, I know....alot of you guys are going to get mad at me and preach insurance, gas, taxes....whatever. Most of us, you, whatever, would make no where near even $20 an hour working a 9-5.

I think the vast majority of lawn people are extremely spoiled and extremely unrealistic.

If you can't suck it up or don't like it....why are you not doing something else???

My point exactly!!

If it was that ruff...and there were better options for you...than you'd be doing it.

I think alot of guys on here are simply trying to lower the competitioin by staying...."if you are just starting out.....don't bother." Businesses succeed and fail every day. Its what you make of it.

Gas increase or not.

Tired of hearing people ***** on here. I have a wife for that. If you want to get out....get out....otherwise....say something worth a Sh*t. Ya, I'm grumpy tonight. Just tired of hearing all the negative and bitching. Sorry.

:laugh: You got it!

jim163
05-25-2008, 02:25 AM
Man....I know the gas prices suck but damn....are there alot of whinner on here. No offense but I actually have a masters degree that cost me almost 80K. I now mow lawns because I enjoy it...ya, I know...not what you want to hear...but what do you expect when this is an industry that takes nothing more than a lawn mower and a way to transport it....ie. truck, trunk, mowped. You get out of live what out put into it and I hear a great many people ***** about how they "deserve" $60 an hour for....what...honestly....riding around on a ZTR that you happen to put money on.

Maybe some of you fertilizer guys....muitiple license guys out there....but when you are doing something anybody with the credit to purchase a mower and a trailer can do...don't expect the world.

I am new to this but at least I am realistic. Ya, I know....alot of you guys are going to get mad at me and preach insurance, gas, taxes....whatever. Most of us, you, whatever, would make no where near even $20 an hour working a 9-5.

I think the vast majority of lawn people are extremely spoiled and extremely unrealistic.

If you can't suck it up or don't like it....why are you not doing something else???

My point exactly!!

If it was that ruff...and there were better options for you...than you'd be doing it.

I think alot of guys on here are simply trying to lower the competitioin by staying...."if you are just starting out.....don't bother." Businesses succeed and fail every day. Its what you make of it.

Gas increase or not.

Tired of hearing people ***** on here. I have a wife for that. If you want to get out....get out....otherwise....say something worth a Sh*t. Ya, I'm grumpy tonight. Just tired of hearing all the negative and bitching. Sorry.

how long have you been doing this?

XterraJohn
05-25-2008, 02:47 AM
I hear a great many people ***** about how they "deserve" $60 an hour for....what...honestly....riding around on a ZTR that you happen to put money on.


I think that there is a lot of difference between "billing" $60/hr and "making" $60/hr. You may enjoy riding around on a mower and not charging enough to cover your expenses, but I don't think that that should be compared to someone who is actually attempting to make a living at this.

landscapingconcepts
05-25-2008, 02:56 AM
but if you enjoy what you are doing and do a great job then you will always have a client base of yards and companies to work for. These people will understand that everything has gone up and will not flinch when you increase your service. (that is if you do a professional excellent job) The high prices will weed out many people but the strong will survive and prosper. :weightlifter::usflag:

MOWEMJEFF
05-25-2008, 09:22 AM
If anything I think the higher gas prices will result in more solo ops running 21" mowers out of the back of hybrid or 4 cyl. pickups. ZTR's guzzle gas and so do the trucks that haul the trailers. I foresee a lot of competition in the residential market.

This is so true....I see literally a 100 trucks a day either towing a trailer or with a push mower in the back when it used to be a few dozen, they're gonna be stealing lawns right out from under us.

you dont get it, your looking at a tiny picture.. you netted $74.00 more in a day, now go to the food store and buy eggs that were.89c for dozen large eggs, same eggs now are 1.75 a dozen now buy milk, cerial, toilet paper and whatever else you buy and do your math again. so in the front end might look better but in the end your loosing...
since katrina hit gas is up like 114% thats right 114% even after 9/11 people went crazy when gas went over 2.00 for like 1 week then back to 1.65 was not to bad. now still after katrina 2 puls yars later now theres a short in oil???????? from a hurricane 2 plus years ago???????

now back to your net 74.00. say a 30.00 yard you now do for 35.00 you only went up like 15% so point is to catch up you need to mow more lawns which adds up to more wear and tear on equiment and dont forget cost of tires went up too. my point is the whole country is loosing because of this, not just grass cutters but your not ahead unless you doing more lawns, not because you raised your price 15% compaired to everything like necessaties going up like 100% your loosing so till your prices go up like 60% then you will be ahead and also good luck keeping them accounts.


Double Cheesburger at McDonalds, still $1!!!!:drinkup:

mlyons1
05-25-2008, 09:31 AM
the working class people in this country seems to struggle it seems to me that the goverment wants to help the lazy people that does not want to work or the the rich people that does not have to.just read a story that myanmar is allowing the u.s to come in and help them i read that the u.s has already sent 20.5 million dollars over there and they are allowing the u.s to help? if they don"t want our help then why insist on doing it why not help your own working people that get up every morning and go out and provide for their families instead of sponging off the goverment.we are not whining as one thread put it i myself that works 2 jobs just want the goverment to see that the working man or woman is struggling because the way the goverment runs. there is no sense of us paying 4.00 a gallon for gas when we have all this oil in alaska but we will continue to struggle and the goverment will continue to provide for the ones that are to lazy to work with food stamps free insurance so much money a month and whatever else they can get this is what our country has become.

lawnwizards
05-25-2008, 09:49 AM
the working class people in this country seems to struggle it seems to me that the goverment wants to help the lazy people that does not want to work or the the rich people that does not have to.just read a story that myanmar is allowing the u.s to come in and help them i read that the u.s has already sent 20.5 million dollars over there and they are allowing the u.s to help? if they don"t want our help then why insist on doing it why not help your own working people that get up every morning and go out and provide for their families instead of sponging off the goverment.we are not whining as one thread put it i myself that works 2 jobs just want the goverment to see that the working man or woman is struggling because the way the goverment runs. there is no sense of us paying 4.00 a gallon for gas when we have all this oil in alaska but we will continue to struggle and the goverment will continue to provide for the ones that are to lazy to work with food stamps free insurance so much money a month and whatever else they can get this is what our country has become.

to add to your thread. i hate seeing able bodied people working under the table getting free medical cards, low income housing and food stamps. i think we should make it our mission to turn in everyone who is doing this. maybe then, our costs will come down.

jeffex
05-25-2008, 09:59 AM
Arguing on this forum will help nothing, voting for the right people this year will. Remember to vote for people this year that support coal to oil, opening the coast and Alaska for drilling, etc. The oil companies make tiny profit margins after taxes, so they can't lower prices much more.

NOW THIS IS A SMART GUY!!!!!

right now the senate and congress can call anemergency session and pass unamiously a bill to open up Anwar for drilling oil. There is a huge reserve there that will take approx. 10 yrs to put online. For everyday the so called "greenies" fight to preserve the pristine tundra OPEC has us by the short hairs. Off the coast of cuba ther is another oil reserve that WE don't drill because of enviromental concers. However the Russians ARE drilling there with the very same enviormental concerns. Call your elected rep and let them know your F'n mad and are voting their A$$ out if they can't get this done. Take a break this weekend from lawnsite and google ...how do I contact my elected representative..... Or e-mail me I can tell you how I simply point and click to geneerate a fax to mine to let them know I'm here watching THEM and I VOTE http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ took me 13 seconds to find this link

CAT MAN
05-25-2008, 12:04 PM
So Im 15 and really want to get into the lawn mowing industry and after reading this Is it worth it???

topsites
05-25-2008, 12:12 PM
how long have you been doing this?

He said he's just doing it for fun.

And yes, there ARE a lot of spoiled lawn guys, but there are a lot of us making sacrifices these punks just don't know too.

Probably the two things that still can make me angry are:
Customers who think that because I make said sacrifices means I will work for dirt cheap,
and new guys thinking this will be such easy money.


Double Cheesburger at McDonalds, still $1!!!!:drinkup:

McChicken's too, I've been eating that crap for lunch for many years now lol
Then when ya need something else, soft tacos at Taco Bell 89 cents, get like 3-4 and you're fed.
And, large pizzas at Little Caesar for 5 bucks (thou I prefer these for the end of day, too much food for lunch).
Don't forget foot long subs at Subway limited time thou but 5 bucks.

topsites
05-25-2008, 12:41 PM
to add to your thread. i hate seeing able bodied people working under the table getting free medical cards, low income housing and food stamps. i think we should make it our mission to turn in everyone who is doing this. maybe then, our costs will come down.

I think we're straight here, the guy you replied to also.
Hard work, what it's all about.
And getting off your sorry butt, but if you don't that's fine just stop expecting it.

I'm spoiled, I sit on my butt, a LOT.
But I pay for it in ways, too.
That's not my complaint, hardly, or at least not anymore lol.

My problem with all these kids coming into this business just thinking they can off and quote $60 an hour nice as can be...
Another thread these guys were hammering off $100+ prices on 1.38 acres, what a load of crap.

Yeah right, there's guys here been into this 5 and 8 and 10 and 20 years full time and not making things up that ain't even CLOSE to earning 60 an hour most days. They don't realize guys with that kind of experience do a better job in less time, much better and far less, hence IF they get away with a 60 an hour quote that might be the equivalent of a new guy's 30 an hour quote, and I said IF they're that lucky.

These new guys then act all surprised when their quotes are blown out of the sky,
with customer counter-offers of far less than HALF what they quoted.
And in some cases it is lowballing, but in more than a few cases that's just the reality.

I am surprised anyone out there is getting what they say they are, as for the rest a few of them I believe.
My first year was more like 15-20 an hour and I'm not making it up and it wasn't THAT long ago!
But I see a FEW new folks I think will make it, a few got the right attitude.
The rest got their heads in the clouds, or maybe up the culo.

milo
05-25-2008, 01:05 PM
you people dont get it.

Big C
05-25-2008, 01:21 PM
you people dont get it.

What don't we get....your gloom & doom/we all are going to die at the hands of the gov't attitude.....we can *****:cry: all we want about how unfair it all is but in the long run what can we do?????? make the best of a bad situation,,,that's it.

milo
05-25-2008, 01:23 PM
i will try to explain,
our prices of raising like 1.00 or 2 or 5 or even 10.00 a cut is not going up as fast as the rest of the prices in the country.

next if my wife did not have health insurance i would never be in this business. my buddy who is a plumber has his own insurance for him, his wife and kid. well thats $1000.00 a month for his health insurance. so if your just looking to start out in this business than go right ahead come back in 5 years and tell me how great it is then. and im sure alot of the new guys dont need health insurance because your young and healthy and you will never get sick.. guess what, sh:t happens and your gonna get older. old guys you see now will be you one day. do you think those people at 20 to 40 years old was thinking wow i cannot wait till i need a cane to walk.
so if your in it for a quick buck try the business, then try doing things legit, pay taxes, insurances (all of them) and i ride dirt bikes and motorcycles and just broke ribs on my dirt bike. now go do your work with broke ribs because you have to keep up with work let me guess, you will never break ribs or get injured. then open your eyes and see how much money you make compaired to the adveraged american and then tell me how this business is.

milo
05-25-2008, 01:25 PM
What don't we get....your gloom & doom/we all are going to die at the hands of the gov't attitude.....we can *****:cry: all we want about how unfair it all is but in the long run what can we do?????? make the best of a bad situation,,,that's it.
this was to tell new people not to get into this work and no, im not trying to chase people out but im trying to help people out.

topsites
05-25-2008, 01:38 PM
you people dont get it.

Oh I DO get it, I just don't want to go there.

What's the use, it just costs us in other ways...
We'd have ourselves a worse situation than it already is.
And that's why I can not willingly participate in that plan.

Why it's just one little step, and one day at a time.
Nice and easy does it.

'k...

i will try to explain,
and i ride dirt bikes and motorcycles and just broke ribs on my dirt bike. now go do your work with broke ribs because you have to keep up with work let me guess, you will never break ribs or get injured. then open your eyes and see how much money you make compaired to the adveraged american and then tell me how this business is.

I like your take on things... I don't ride much, but I've operated my equipment on broken ribs before, after I hit my Wb's handlebar system with my chest from clipping a board on a fence, that was some painful $%*&%!
And no insurance meant no doctors, no hospital...
Couldn't even scream out in pain because I was afraid someone would call the ecnalubmA.

Yes sir, if you have no insurance and you get hurt, whatever you do DON'T scream.
Because if anyone hears you and looks over and sees you they might panic and call 911.
And if that ambulance shows up you're out several thousand.


And I agree, come on back in 5 years and tell me all about it.

OutdoorMiracles
05-25-2008, 01:39 PM
Did anyone notice that there are a lot of yard conversions going on right now. In my neighborhood alone there are at least four that are getting rid of their lawn and replacing it with native trees and shrubs. They all had a LCO but no longer, $150 mulch a year and they are done. No LCO cost, no watering cost.

milo
05-25-2008, 01:56 PM
Oh I DO get it, I just don't want to go there.

What's the use, it just costs us in other ways...
We'd have ourselves a worse situation than it already is.
And that's why I can not willingly participate in that plan.

Why it's just one little step, and one day at a time.
Nice and easy does it.

'k...



I like your take on things... I don't ride much, but I've operated my equipment on broken ribs before, after I hit my Wb's handlebar system with my chest from clipping a board on a fence, that was some painful $%*&%!
And no insurance meant no doctors, no hospital...
Couldn't even scream out in pain because I was afraid someone would call the ecnalubmA.

Yes sir, if you have no insurance and you get hurt, whatever you do DON'T scream.
Because if anyone hears you and looks over and sees you they might panic and call 911.
And if that ambulance shows up you're out several thousand.


And I agree, come on back in 5 years and tell me all about it.
thanks for understanding..

Albemarle Lawn
05-25-2008, 02:02 PM
Are only low maint if so-so is ok. For a mulch yard to look good it takes pre-emergents, post emergents, lots of pruning, a huge PIA leaf cleanup, replace dead plants, water live plants.

Pushing a mower 20 times a year is a lot less maintenance to me. In Va, you can have a nice lawn and never water but you can't have a plant clutterlot and not water.

Jordanfan20
05-25-2008, 02:22 PM
simple solution buy a battery trimmer, manual lawnmower, blow the grass with your internal lungs. Gas isn't a problem, if companies drop out because of gas the supply and demand will lay in and companies will make more money per grass cut. I don't predict seeing grass 6ft in someones yard

Ford2000
05-25-2008, 02:36 PM
You all know that we are going no where,we all love what we do and we are going to have to deal with it one way or the other.

Most of us have a lot invested and right or wrong this is what we do so,figure it out,make adjustments and move on.:):)

Jordanfan20
05-25-2008, 02:38 PM
I'm 15 and I've made close to 6000 a year and growing and grass prices have hardly effected my income.

Ford2000
05-25-2008, 02:57 PM
Hey,go get'm:):):):)

JohnnyRoyale
05-26-2008, 01:32 PM
I was in Buffalo on Saturday night and filled up at $4.20/gal. I filled up this morning at $5.20/gal up here. And you guys thought you have it bad.

Jordanfan20
05-26-2008, 02:23 PM
Customers realize gas prices are increasing so they are willing to raise their pay. If they don't they won't get their lawn cut. Simple answer, there is still hope in this business.

Lawn Enforcer
05-26-2008, 04:24 PM
He said he's just doing it for fun.

And yes, there ARE a lot of spoiled lawn guys, but there are a lot of us making sacrifices these punks just don't know too.

Probably the two things that still can make me angry are:
Customers who think that because I make said sacrifices means I will work for dirt cheap,
and new guys thinking this will be such easy money.




McChicken's too, I've been eating that crap for lunch for many years now lol
Then when ya need something else, soft tacos at Taco Bell 89 cents, get like 3-4 and you're fed.
And, large pizzas at Little Caesar for 5 bucks (thou I prefer these for the end of day, too much food for lunch).
Don't forget foot long subs at Subway limited time thou but 5 bucks.
They are now on the regular Fresh Value menu! I am excited! They are here to stay!

Athletic field
05-29-2008, 07:25 PM
You know all these ethanol fuels use alot of energy to make energy. It doesn't make sense. If there was big money in it private industry would be all over it. Its political crap, global warming. There are many scientist out there that think it not happening, but again a political agenda shows only one view. Who cares if we use corn and other food crops to make inefficient fuel and starve the world that depends on us to feed them??? If I was the only lawn care guy on the block I'd charge the crap out of people too. If I heard you were getting into lawn care I'd lower my prices just from the threat. And if you did get into lawn care, hey thats compitetion so I'd lower my prices. Quit blamming the oil companies, blame congress and the pinko commie tree huggers for not letting us drill or uncap wells that we already have! And lets punish them and tax them more, so the price is moved on to us, that makes sense how? Oil companies make about $.08/gal when its all said and done, and the government $.19/gal for sitting on their butts with their hands out just like they do with us. Let them tax us more, whose going to pay, you or the custumer?:usflag:

Athletic field
05-29-2008, 07:28 PM
You know all these ethanol fuels use alot of energy to make energy. It doesn't make sense. If there was big money in it private industry would be all over it. Its political crap, global warming. There are many scientist out there that think it not happening, but again a political agenda shows only one view. Who cares if we use corn and other food crops to make inefficient fuel and starve the world that depends on us to feed them??? If I was the only lawn care guy on the block I'd charge the crap out of people too. If I heard you were getting into lawn care I'd lower my prices just from the threat. And if you did get into lawn care, hey thats compitetion so I'd lower my prices. Quit blamming the oil companies, blame congress and the pinko commie tree huggers for not letting us drill or uncap wells that we already have! And lets punish them and tax them more, so the price is moved on to us, that makes sense how? Oil companies make about $.08/gal when its all said and done, and the government $.19/gal for sitting on their butts with their hands out just like they do with us. Let them tax us more, whose going to pay, you or the custumer?:usflag:

k911lowe
05-29-2008, 07:44 PM
I wish there was more of you so called ancient relics out there. I would honor the chance to pick your brains. I have always had a deep respect for the wisdom and experience of the wise old man.
this old relic agrees with quit your bitchin and get to work,or as my old grandpappy used to say.GOYA.( get off your ass)thats a donkey,by the way.

FNG
05-29-2008, 08:27 PM
You sir, are a wise man. Congratulations on "getting it".

R


Actual numbers, today I mowed 17 lawns solo, used 11 gallons of gas between my truck and mowers. Lets assume gas has increased $1.00/ gallon. So far this year I have increased my prices to all of my customers an average of $5.00/ lawn. I lost a few customers, but today my price increases grossed me $85.00 more, and only cost me $11.00 more in gas cost. The one thing about gas prices being all the hype, everyone is EXPECTING us to raise our prices. If we wait until the gas prices level out, we will miss the boat.

John Gamba
05-29-2008, 08:50 PM
if you drink more, it really doesn't look to bad.


Very true:waving:

MOWEMJEFF
06-05-2008, 12:11 AM
Did anyone notice that there are a lot of yard conversions going on right now. In my neighborhood alone there are at least four that are getting rid of their lawn and replacing it with native trees and shrubs. They all had a LCO but no longer, $150 mulch a year and they are done. No LCO cost, no watering cost.

I've noticed this around here a lot too. But this is also a niche in the market that you should try and take more advantage of. These people think they'll weed their own gardens but don't, you need to convince them to have their gardens weeded once a month. And convince them they should let you add more annuals for more color. Also explain that certain herbaceous plants need to be cut back mid season in order to have longer bloom times. And I doubt it when people replace their whole lawn that it is only a $150 mulch job. I've been trying to promote compost early in the spring and then put down mulch before the 4th of July so it looks fresh for the summer and will help protect roots better in the fall and winter then if you put it down in April. Give these people with money scientific reason and they're more likely to go with your recommendations.

dougmartin2003
06-05-2008, 12:34 AM
what about running moonshine in our mowers, would it work, because i have 80 acres in BFE. yeah i know it not legal to make moonshine, but that never stop a lot of people before. and at least when your running moonshine you can always stop and get a drink if needed.:)

B_gerrits
06-05-2008, 12:49 PM
It a proven that gas prices always go up in the summer months. It went to mid to high 3.00 here last year and dropped back in the high two dollar range in the winter. I watched one of those gas CEO on television a couple of nights ago. He said one thing that opened my eyes. The oil companies are making record profits BUT they are also paying record TAXES! That is why the gas prices are high. Do I agree with this? I don't know. All I know is if you look at how many of gallons of gas is used each day, and how many people depend on it I wonder why it isn't 10.00 a gallon already. Lawncare companies aren't the only people that this has effect on. Its not just a company that is the one getting screwed. Its everbody, crime is on the rise,people aren't making enough to live on,its taking food off of people's tables,its making food and hard good prices go to all time high, etc. It the world we live in. I'm not even going to get started on the up coming election. It will probably get worse before it gets better. But I think it will get better.

If they make record profits they will pay record taxes just like if you get a lot more work you will pay more taxes. IMO they oil companies are killing us and our sorry politicians are sleeping with them. the oil comps need to be hit with windfall taxes which are higher taxes on excessive profits and escallate with the amount of profit they make.

whoopassonthebluegrass
06-06-2008, 01:53 AM
If they make record profits they will pay record taxes just like if you get a lot more work you will pay more taxes. IMO they oil companies are killing us and our sorry politicians are sleeping with them. the oil comps need to be hit with windfall taxes which are higher taxes on excessive profits and escallate with the amount of profit they make.

The oil co's are making the same profit margin as they did before 9/11. It's just that the world is using MORE of their product. The real problem is OPEC, hoarding-countries, and wall street speculation. That's what kills us: the cost of crude.

easycareacres
06-06-2008, 03:12 AM
try australian prices, 4.5 litres to a gallon. You still got it dam easy.
Lift youre prices ? dont know youre application.

Roger
06-06-2008, 07:56 AM
... IMO they oil companies are killing us and our sorry politicians are sleeping with them. the oil comps need to be hit with windfall taxes which are higher taxes on excessive profits and escallate with the amount of profit they make.

The oil co's are making the same profit margin as they did before 9/11. It's just that the world is using MORE of their product. The real problem is OPEC, hoarding-countries, and wall street speculation. That's what kills us: the cost of crude.

B_gerrits, ... What other companies do you want to hit with additional taxes? The oil companies, with about 8.5 cents per dollar, is far below many other industries. If you want to hit a windfall profits tax on the oil companies, then you need to implement such a tax to a large group of other companies first.

What is a windfall profits tax? What is excessive profit? One more question, what is the profit margin with your company? Is it greater than 8.5%? I suspect this is the case, so you too should be paying a windfall profit tax, or some other kind of tax because of your "excessive profit."

whoop ... Good answer to the question.

Charles
06-06-2008, 08:04 AM
B_gerrits, ... What other companies do you want to hit with additional taxes? The oil companies, with about 8.5 cents per dollar, is far below many other industries. If you want to hit a windfall profits tax on the oil companies, then you need to implement such a tax to a large group of other companies first.

What is a windfall profits tax? What is excessive profit? One more question, what is the profit margin with your company? Is it greater than 8.5%? I suspect this is the case, so you too should be paying a windfall profit tax, or some other kind of tax because of your "excessive profit."

whoop ... Good answer to the question.

Exxon made the highest profit(ever) recorded by a US corporation by far. They continue to hit record profits every quarter. They can afford to pay a CEO $600 million to retire. Get real! I am not buying any of this fuzzy math crud:hammerhead:

ProStreetCamaro
06-06-2008, 08:13 AM
The oil co's are making the same profit margin as they did before 9/11. It's just that the world is using MORE of their product. The real problem is OPEC, hoarding-countries, and wall street speculation. That's what kills us: the cost of crude.




What I want to know is we went in to help the people of iraq so why are they not giving us a really good deal on oil?

Lets face it Bush is an oil man...............................................

Roger
06-06-2008, 08:16 AM
Charles, your statement is the same as the media and the anti-oil crowd continue to speak. Nobody from the crowd ever wants to answer the simple questions being asked about what constitutes a windfall, excessive profit, other industries, or even their own industry.

"Record profits" makes great headlines, but doesn't tell the full story.

What was the result of the recent congressional hearings? The politicians brought in the execs from the oil industry. What was their most significant question? How much the execs were being paid. What does that have to do with the matter? The hearings were more politician grandstanding than anything else. The talk did nothing to provide more insight to the issue, and nothing has come from the hearings.

Charles
06-06-2008, 08:22 AM
Charles, your statement is the same as the media and the anti-oil crowd continue to speak. Nobody from the crowd ever wants to answer the simple questions being asked about what constitutes a windfall, excessive profit, other industries, or even their own industry.

"Record profits" makes great headlines, but doesn't tell the full story.

What was the result of the recent congressional hearings? The politicians brought in the execs from the oil industry. What was their most significant question? How much the execs were being paid. What does that have to do with the matter? The hearings were more politician grandstanding than anything else. The talk did nothing to provide more insight to the issue, and nothing has come from the hearings.

99 cent gas prices during the Clinton years. Well I guess that bankrupted Exxon. Oh no they stayed in business somehow. $1.25 per gallon when W took office. I guess that bankrupted the Exxon. Nope still thriving. 7 years later at $4.00 per gallon and you say the oil Kings are still struggling with a average profit margin. Give me a break! They are good at hiding their money thats for sure. They funnel a lot of money to the government thats supposedly investigating them:rolleyes:

Turfcutters Plus
06-06-2008, 09:28 AM
Bad attitude will get you nowhere.Being a solo operator,i'll Always make it.The best will survive,and i'm DEFINATELY one of the best.:cool2:

whoopassonthebluegrass
06-06-2008, 09:51 AM
What I want to know is we went in to help the people of iraq so why are they not giving us a really good deal on oil?

Lets face it Bush is an oil man...............................................

I don't disagree with you. Quite frankly, the whole world HATES US for being over there, so I don't see as how we have much face to lose by just TAKING what we need! :usflag:

topsites
06-06-2008, 09:58 AM
If they make record profits they will pay record taxes just like if you get a lot more work you will pay more taxes. IMO they oil companies are killing us and our sorry politicians are sleeping with them. the oil comps need to be hit with windfall taxes which are higher taxes on excessive profits and escallate with the amount of profit they make.

That ain't gonna work, we can tax them all day long but guess who they pass the cost on down to?
Sure, slap them with a stiff tax...
So, they just tack it on to the next barrel of petrol and we still pay for it at the pump.

On the other hand we could always have Venezuela's energy problems...
Cheap gas all day long, the cheapest in the world, I think 12 cents a gallon.
But traffic jams galore, we're talking it takes two hours to drive 10 miles.
Then, the road system in such disarray there exist potholes swallow your car.

Of course the electric is state subsidized too, something like 80% the Gov't pays for.
Yes, and power outages every single day, random black outs that can last for hours.
No guarantees you'll have electricity today, matter of fact no guarantees
you can even get to work due to traffic and bad roads, but hey at least it's cheap.

Why, because of too much demand...
Go figure.

ATL Lawn
06-06-2008, 11:34 AM
time for solar power mowers

jeffex
06-06-2008, 03:47 PM
What I want to know is we went in to help the people of Iraq so why are they not giving us a really good deal on oil?

Lets face it Bush is an oil man...............................................

I believed the war WAS about oil in the first place not WMDs and toppling a fierce dictator but it looks like I was wrong. If it HAD been about oil wouldn't we be getting cheap oil from IRAQ and all driving muscle cars and SUVs? Bush would be parading oil execs. around the country as hero's of the American way bringing cheap gas to us junkies!! I realize here in USA we are afraid to build any new refineries and drill in Alaska but dam Iraq should be the biggest gas station ever!!!! America is the biggest oil junkie , yet its people are afraid to look bad in the world ...Dubhe!!! too late and who cares. My tax dollars help pay for the war and Americans paid the ultimate price with their lives lets start acting like the king of the hill we are and not trying to get everyone to like us.

jeffex
06-06-2008, 03:57 PM
history has proven that when you tax the rich they pay someone to dodge the bullet. All the luxuary tax on cars and boats did was hurt the workers of those companies who got laid off while the rich bought slightly used cars and boats. We can only hope to ride the tide up during good economic times. Giving tax breaks to companies that use alternative fuels or are creative in saving energy should be the method. Not just little breaks I mean BIG breaks! The gov. has its place in oversight and they can't even do that ( mortgage mess we're in now) The gov. could F-up a FREE porn site , thats how bad they run things. I know I work for the Post office full time.... I rest my case!!

B_gerrits
06-07-2008, 01:10 PM
.

"Record profits" makes great headlines, but doesn't tell the full story.

What was the result of the recent congressional hearings? The politicians brought in the execs from the oil industry. What was their most significant question? How much the execs were being paid. What does that have to do with the matter? The hearings were more politician grandstanding than anything else. The talk did nothing to provide more insight to the issue, and nothing has come from the hearings.

Roger some of the questions you pose are right in the fact of what is a fair profit and when should windfall taxes kick in. As for me I assure you I didn't make 11.7 billion in three months if I try to overcharge people will go elsewhere or do the work themself. I'm not sure where this 8.5% profit margin plays in because I really dont think our oil useage has increased that much. I really don't care what the oil comps say the bottom doesn't lie and the oil comps are making record breaking profits every quarter at our expense. You are totally right that they aren't the only culprit as opec is raping us (we should of been researching alternative fuel years ago) the falling value of the dollar and oil speculators are causing this. I personally think oil should be taken off the commodity market because gas prices will have a big effect on our economy and IMO it should be privatized like uranium. I really think we better do something about this problem or we will be looking at a major depression. Gas prices have almost doubled in a year people can cut back on usage but transportation is an essential. IMO people will start cutting back on spending which will put more people out of work and it escallates from there.

whoopassonthebluegrass
06-07-2008, 01:15 PM
I remember when gas jumped to $1.79 after 9/11 and I was terrified by the increase...

Those were the good old days...

DuallyVette
06-07-2008, 11:26 PM
I've heard people talking about the percentage of profit the oil companies make. I look at it as how much do they make per gallon. When gas was $1 a gallon, lets say they made 10 cents, or 10%. Now at $4 a gallon, if the profit is 10%, that = 40 cent profit. From where I stand...they're making 4 times as much profit, for the same work. I'm the only person that seems to recognize this.

I'm also guessing that the cost of doing business didn't go up 400%. Maybe the executives gave themselves 400%+ raises. But it would be HARD to make all costs go up 400% to keep the profit percentage at 10%

Lawn Enforcer
06-08-2008, 12:48 AM
then open your eyes and see how much money you make compaired to the adveraged american and then tell me how this business is.[/QUOTE]


I know what he is saying. I'm only a senior in H.S. and I make $17,000 a year compared to $2,750 that my other friends make working 8 hours a day a meat market for 5 days a week.

Integritylawncare
06-08-2008, 09:30 AM
Just remember the price of gas when you vote November. Any green weenie politician that doesn't want to do what is correct for the country as far as oil drilling, green agendas needs to be fired whether they are dems or republicans. If they put a tree first and the public second then they don't need to work for me. Don't buy the crap that oil companies are evil it's a business and if want to get in on the "profit" became a shareholder. Otherwise it's a smoke screen for the green agenda.

JOhanthegnarler
06-08-2008, 12:45 PM
Anyone else find it funny that we lose more state services every year, while our taxes increase greatly to fund federal government spending on things that do nothing for the people of our country?

The Federal Reserve Bank is a crime and unconstitutional. Jefferson warned us of this:

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation then by deflation, the banks and the corporations will grow up around them, will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

whoopassonthebluegrass
06-08-2008, 03:20 PM
Anyone else find it funny that we lose more state services every year, while our taxes increase greatly to fund federal government spending on things that do nothing for the people of our country?

The Federal Reserve Bank is a crime and unconstitutional. Jefferson warned us of this:

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation then by deflation, the banks and the corporations will grow up around them, will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

Crap. Where was this quote 100 years ago? I'll bet if this had been posted on lawnsite back then, we'd live in a whole different world.

XterraJohn
06-08-2008, 03:57 PM
I've heard people talking about the percentage of profit the oil companies make. I look at it as how much do they make per gallon. When gas was $1 a gallon, lets say they made 10 cents, or 10%. Now at $4 a gallon, if the profit is 10%, that = 40 cent profit. From where I stand...they're making 4 times as much profit, for the same work. I'm the only person that seems to recognize this.

What percent profit do you, personally, want the oil companies to make?

Do you allow your customers to tell you how much profit you can make on a job?

B_gerrits
06-09-2008, 04:47 PM
What percent profit do you, personally, want the oil companies to make?

Do you allow your customers to tell you how much profit you can make on a job?

Our customers control our prices by only paying a certain amount for the work. If we tried to quadruple our prices the customer would say see ya.
Landscaping and yard work is a luxury. Transportation is pretty much a necessity. I still don't understand anyone who feels 11.7 billion in three months is a reasonable profit. These companies and their excessive profits will bring on a major depression as people cut back on spending to pay these profits.

jaredslawnserv
06-09-2008, 05:22 PM
i saw on the news that theres enough crude oil in alaska to fuel the u.s for th next 200 years. why buy it from foreign countries when you have some in the u.s?

DuallyVette
06-09-2008, 07:30 PM
What percent profit do you, personally, want the oil companies to make?

Do you allow your customers to tell you how much profit you can make on a job?

I'm guessing that you don't get the point that I'm making. Maybe reread it a few times. .....................................................................................damn.

DuallyVette
06-09-2008, 07:35 PM
i saw on the news that theres enough crude oil in alaska to fuel the u.s for the next 200 years. why buy it from foreign countries when you have some in the u.s?


I didn't hear this on the news, but by Lindsey Williams...on U Tube. I don't know how credible he is. One clip is a "mock (christian)news show" seems suspect to me.

David Gretzmier
06-09-2008, 07:54 PM
perhaps a more productive use of this thread would be how to better insulate the mowing industry from the oil industry. the person who has the mowers that use the least amount of fuel, the most efficient trucks, blowers, etc. will have more money in his pocket at the end of the day.

I know they have dixie chopper and other propane mowers, I wonder if anyone can figure out how to run one on compressed natural gas, buy a CNG pump and fill tanks at our houses every night. It'd probably cost 3-4000 bucks, but i'm betting you'd recoup that cost in a year of use.

There is a 16ft electric boxvan they sell in Europe for around 41,000 US. With a 150 mile range, plugging it in every night costs you about 3cents a mile for electric verses 40 cents a mile for gas.

my brother has stopped using his 31 horse gas mower and went back to his 21 horse kubota diesel . even though diesel is 80 cents more per gallon, he only burns 1/2 gallon per hour of diesel ( $2.40 per hour) at 3/4 throttle verses 2 gallons per hour in the gas version ( $8.00 per hour). they both have 60 inch decks. they both mow practically the same. at 7 hours of use per day, that is 35-40 bucks extra per day he did not have to spend. That's over 800 bucks a MONTH.

Will electric mowers resurface with lithium batteries? it seems ridiculous, but do you really expect consumers to just keep paying more for our services?

lifetree
06-09-2008, 08:58 PM
if you drink more, it really doesn't look to bad.

What about those that don't drink ?? :laugh:

Roger
06-09-2008, 10:38 PM
... I still don't understand anyone who feels 11.7 billion in three months is a reasonable profit. These companies and their excessive profits will bring on a major depression as people cut back on spending to pay these profits.

What were their expenses? Why can you make a statement they are unreasonable profits? What is your definition of excessive profits?

The "they" in "these companies" are your friends, relatives, neighbors, far and near. The ubiquitous "they" are the stockholders, the owners of the companies. Anybody with pension funds, money in mutual funds, or other similar retirement accounts most likely have a stake in these companies. Unless you have no pension funds, or retirement accounts in mutual funds, undoubtedly you have some ownership in the companies.

I realize you did not use the term "they" like most who are critical of the oil companies. However, most posts speak about the oil companies as if they are some ambiguous entity.

If you choose to term the profits of the oil companies as "excessive," are you prepared to say the same about a multitude of other industries (e.g. banking, software)? Profit margins for the oil companies are way down the list, with many other industries having a greater profit margin. Your comment about "causing a depression" among the people applies to all those industries have higher profit margins. Why do you single out one industry to bear the burden of ultraism?

I heard a statistic today that the refining capacity of the US oil companies is only 7% of the global market. Also, 70% of the oil markets are controlled by Venzueala. With these kinds of statistics, do we really think some congressional hearings with the oil executives will bring any change?

Superior L & L
06-09-2008, 10:53 PM
WOW don't know if i can touch this thread......lots of big words. !!!
But is is a good debate. I heard that for the amount of money that the oil company's have to invest to find, drill, produce and deliver there product that there profits are not that great. (read this in a news paper and it does make some sense)
People just see really big numbers and freak out. Now i hate the price of gas just like everyone else but people need to look at the numbers a little.

Busa_bill
06-09-2008, 11:49 PM
Profit is what is let over AFTER your expenses. Exploration is an expense. Production costs are an expense.

When considering the profits of the oil company's, some folks tend to loose sight of the defination of the word.

XterraJohn
06-10-2008, 12:53 AM
These companies and their excessive profits will bring on a major depression as people cut back on spending to pay these profits.

If the oil companies are making 10%, then that's only about $0.40 per gallon, right? I didn't realize that the difference between $3.60 and $4.00 gallon was going to cause a depression. OR, let's say that gas goes to $10 per gallon. Make the oil companies give up ALL of their profit and you've lowered the price to $9 per gallon.

colnc
06-10-2008, 02:35 AM
Go to a diesel truck and diesel mower. Then make your own bio diesel. My buddy started doing this for his Chevy Duramax that he uses in his tile company. He gets used cooking oil from 6 places here in town and makes about 120 gallons per month right in his garage! A couple of hours every Sunday to make it and he is doing it for about .95 per gallon! He gave me a tankfull in my 1997 powerstroke and I loved it! I will start making mine by the end of this month at his house until I get it down and then I will move the operations to my garage. I will probably end up selling my Walker gas powered mowers and buying new Walkers with Diesels next year. Here where I fill up diesel is $4.72 per gallon so I can save $3.77 per gallon!

B_gerrits
06-10-2008, 12:12 PM
If the oil companies are making 10%, then that's only about $0.40 per gallon, right? I didn't realize that the difference between $3.60 and $4.00 gallon was going to cause a depression. OR, let's say that gas goes to $10 per gallon. Make the oil companies give up ALL of their profit and you've lowered the price to $9 per gallon.

People only have a certain amount of disposable income (disposable income is money left over after paying for necessities) if the cost of necessities go up then people will cut spending on things they would like to have but can live without. Necessities are housing, food, water, gas and electric and for most people transportation is necessary. When people have no disposable income they stop spending which leads to layoffs which tightens the money circulation and causes a depression. A nice yard is something people like to have but can live without. The high price of gas is raising the cost of food up you can bet the electric company will be raising rates and pretty much the price of everything is going up which leads to people cutting expenses they can live without. While the oil companies are not the only cause of run away gas prices I sure don't think 11.7 billion in profits in 3 months is ok. Profit is the amount of money left over after expenses!

XterraJohn
06-10-2008, 04:11 PM
People only have a certain amount of disposable income (disposable income is money left over after paying for necessities) if the cost of necessities go up then people will cut spending on things they would like to have but can live without. Necessities are housing, food, water, gas and electric and for most people transportation is necessary. When people have no disposable income they stop spending which leads to layoffs which tightens the money circulation and causes a depression. A nice yard is something people like to have but can live without. The high price of gas is raising the cost of food up you can bet the electric company will be raising rates and pretty much the price of everything is going up which leads to people cutting expenses they can live without. While the oil companies are not the only cause of run away gas prices I sure don't think 11.7 billion in profits in 3 months is ok. Profit is the amount of money left over after expenses!


I understand that 11.7 billion sounds like a big number, but only because most of us are not doing 117 billion dollars in business every 3 months. I'm sick and tired of high gas prices, and I don't own stock in oil companies. My point was, even if the oil companies decided that they were going to take NO MORE PROFITS and simply run their companies to break even, that still leaves gas at more than $3.50 per gallon, does it not?

IMO, we need to lift the restrictions off of the oil companies and tell them to start drilling and find us some cheap oil.

TrapperJohn
06-10-2008, 04:12 PM
The current situation is a fluke, and a bubble market. It will resolve itself, within a year if not sooner. We probably won't see $2 gas again, but the twits that predict $7 gas have no basis whatsoever for that prediction, other than last month's rise. Oil went from $65/barrel to $130/barrel within six months, and nothing has happened other than a lot of speculators and hedge funds getting in on the commodities market, after they got burned in the subprime mortgage market.

What will happen is what happened in 1980. Oil went from $10/barrel to $40/barrel when OPEC restricted the supply. At that price, new sources were now worth going after. Within three years, the price went back down to $12/barrel as supply outstripped demand. They priced themselves out of the market.

There are plenty of other sources. Oil shale costs $70/barrel to process, and both the US and Canada are sitting on a huge amount of it. Coal can be gasified for a similar amount - in WW2, Germany got most of it's gasoline and diesel in the last two years of the war by coal gasification. Biodiesel is in the same vicinity if you process from raw plants. At $130/barrel, those sources will start to come online, and moderate the situation.

What may affect the LCO is the movement away from the subdivisions and back to the cities. At current prices, people are not only rethinking the gas swilling suv, they are also rethinking living 40 miles away from their place of work. I suspect in the coming years, the residential LCO market will shrink, so it may be time to plan accordingly.

whoopassonthebluegrass
06-10-2008, 06:12 PM
What will happen is what happened in 1980. Oil went from $10/barrel to $40/barrel when OPEC restricted the supply. At that price, new sources were now worth going after. Within three years, the price went back down to $12/barrel as supply outstripped demand. They priced themselves out of the market.

Good info. I was just talking with LawnTamer yesterday about the previous gas crisis. I'm too young to know what went down, but obviously the situation resolved itself... So good timing with this insight. :D


...they are also rethinking living 40 miles away from their place of work. I suspect in the coming years, the residential LCO market will shrink, so it may be time to plan accordingly.

I suspect the housing market will have to correct in a big way before we see any exodus ANYwhere... But that's certainly sound logic...

B_gerrits
06-10-2008, 08:05 PM
I understand that 11.7 billion sounds like a big number, but only because most of us are not doing 117 billion dollars in business every 3 months. I'm sick and tired of high gas prices, and I don't own stock in oil companies. My point was, even if the oil companies decided that they were going to take NO MORE PROFITS and simply run their companies to break even, that still leaves gas at more than $3.50 per gallon, does it not?

IMO, we need to lift the restrictions off of the oil companies and tell them to start drilling and find us some cheap oil.

I do agree the enviros go overboard and yes it is time to put them on a leash on them however there needs to be a balance as we don't want to turn America like Thailand where you need to wear a mask to go outside because the air quality is so bad. I also agree that the oil comps profits are not the only problem. OPECker is a huge problem as is the falling dollar and the speculators. I know that a lot of people disagree with me but with oil having such an impact on the economy maybe it shouldn't be on the commodity market. I WILL SAY THIS 11.7 BILLION IN PROFITS IN THREE MONTHS IS A RECORD HIGH PROFIT MAGIN FOR ANY COMPANY IN THE HISTORY OF AMERICIA EVER. So we may want to look twice before we absolve these people.

Roger
06-10-2008, 09:40 PM
.... I sure don't think 11.7 billion in profits in 3 months is ok. ....

You seem to be stuck on the $11.7B profit. You didn't answer any of the questions in my previous post when you spoke about this number (post #123). We await your answers to those questions.

B_gerrits
06-11-2008, 12:07 AM
What were their expenses? Why can you make a statement they are unreasonable profits? What is your definition of excessive profits?

The "they" in "these companies" are your friends, relatives, neighbors, far and near. The ubiquitous "they" are the stockholders, the owners of the companies. Anybody with pension funds, money in mutual funds, or other similar retirement accounts most likely have a stake in these companies. Unless you have no pension funds, or retirement accounts in mutual funds, undoubtedly you have some ownership in the companies.

I realize you did not use the term "they" like most who are critical of the oil companies. However, most posts speak about the oil companies as if they are some ambiguous entity.

If you choose to term the profits of the oil companies as "excessive," are you prepared to say the same about a multitude of other industries (e.g. banking, software)? Profit margins for the oil companies are way down the list, with many other industries having a greater profit margin. Your comment about "causing a depression" among the people applies to all those industries have higher profit margins. Why do you single out one industry to bear the burden of ultraism?

I heard a statistic today that the refining capacity of the US oil companies is only 7% of the global market. Also, 70% of the oil markets are controlled by Venzueala. With these kinds of statistics, do we really think some congressional hearings with the oil executives will bring any change?

Answers to post 123, answer 1, I really don't understand why anyone would think 11.7 billion in three months is reasonable, personally if they only made 6 billion in three months that would be pretty spectacular profits. 2 who cares what their expenses were Exxon moble alone made a record profit of 11.7 billion after expenses and after paying the stockholders. As for the stockholders somehow these obscene profits are not shooting their stock way up and even if it did I would not be in favor of the few benefiting at the expense of the many. You and I will never agree because you keep siting profit margin and I keep siting the bottom line. let me ask you this what other company made 11.7 billion profit in the first quarter? The answer would be none because it was record profit for any corporation ever. I dont think the food industry is posting record profits. I dont think the electric companies are posting record profits in fact help me out here what other industries are posting record profits? I really don't think the politicians will help us any because they are sleeping with the Oil comps. I think we really need to develope alternative energy and kick the greenies in the back side and start drilling.

DuallyVette
06-11-2008, 12:29 AM
Answers to post 123, answer 1, I really don't understand why anyone would think 11.7 billion in three months is reasonable, personally if they only made 6 billion in three months that would be pretty spectacular profits. 2 who cares what their expenses were Exxon moble alone made a record profit of 11.7 billion after expenses and after paying the stockholders. As for the stockholders somehow these obscene profits are not shooting their stock way up and even if it did I would not be in favor of the few benefiting at the expense of the many. You and I will never agree because you keep siting profit margin and I keep siting the bottom line. let me ask you this what other company made 11.7 billion profit in the first quarter? The answer would be none because it was record profit for any corporation ever. I dont think the food industry is posting record profits. I dont think the electric companies are posting record profits in fact help me out here what other industries are posting record profits? I really don't think the politicians will help us any because they are sleeping with the Oil comps. I think we really need to develope alternative energy and kick the greenies in the back side and start drilling.



There you go !!!

XterraJohn
06-11-2008, 12:57 AM
You and I will never agree because you keep siting profit margin and I keep siting the bottom line. let me ask you this what other company made 11.7 billion profit in the first quarter?


I think I see the problem. So you don't EVER think that 11 billion is a reasonable profit, because you're looking at the bottom line, not the margin.

So, if a company does 200 billion dollars of revenue in 1 quarter, you think 11 billion profit is way too much.

If that same company did 800 billion dollars of revenue in 1 quarter, you still think 11 billion profit it too much, because you're looking at the bottom line, not the margin, right?

If this same company did 2 TRILLION dollars in revenue in 1 quarter, YOU STILL THINK 11 BILLION IS TOO MUCH PROFIT?

Maybe you should start looking at the margin.

AdamChrap
06-11-2008, 01:03 AM
if anyone is gonna start a lawncare business this season or next few dont bother.. with the price of gas and where gas is suppost to be next year (over 5.00) trust me this is not a good business to get into. and if the news stations are right saying in 10 to 15 years it will be 15.00 a gallon how in the world will anyone still pay for there grass to be cut at what we will have to charge..

next, the goverment keeps saying global warming and about how we need more resources because oils not it and yet not doing nothing but blaming the people.. why dont our goverment do like brazil and make gas with sugar??????????????????????:confused::confused::hammerhead: 1.00 a gallon and burns clean.. i will tell you why, because some people in goverment making a ton of money out of the oil thing. soon we will be a country like in back to the future 2 where only a few so will have rights and money and the rest will be homeless with nothing and no rights.

Your right, You should quit now and that goes for the rest of you also. Especial if you operate in Ohio, Specifically Northeastern Ohio. Just quit, All of you....Now....ok......thanks.....

Roger
06-11-2008, 07:30 AM
Answers to post 123, answer 1, I really don't understand why anyone would think 11.7 billion in three months is reasonable,

..... I dont think the electric companies are posting record profits in fact help me out here what other industries are posting record profits?

I really don't think the politicians will help us any because they are sleeping with the Oil comps. ....

What economics class is teaching only about the amount of profits being a criteria of success or failure? You still have not defined "reasonable profits," "excessive profits," or similar terms. You are stuck on this one fact, and excluding the other information associated with the issue.

Many suggest, as you do, that exploration needs to be a priority. What is the source of the funding for the exploration? Others suggest updating and expanding refineries. What the source of funding to do these tasks? No business can spend money on new facilities, expand existing ones, apart from drawing upon money made from previous business transactions. Do you expect the stockholders to fork over money in the form of investment, knowing their investment will be drained away because of low, or negative profit margins?

What does the profits of other companies have to do with the issue? My question was the same as asked before, and it is the higher profit margins by other industries. If profit margins of the oil companies are too large, then you must believe profit margins by other industries are too large also (e.g. banking, software). Why isn't the same crowd that is harping on the profit margins of the oil companies harping on the other industries too? Why is the same crowd willing to spend their money on products and services of companies with much higher profit margins, and not complain?

How does the relationship between the politicians and the oil company officials impact the price of crude oil on the global commodities market? Crude oil trading is not unique to the US.

topsites
06-11-2008, 09:17 AM
Our customers control our prices by only paying a certain amount for the work. If we tried to quadruple our prices the customer would say see ya.
Landscaping and yard work is a luxury. Transportation is pretty much a necessity. I still don't understand anyone who feels 11.7 billion in three months is a reasonable profit. These companies and their excessive profits will bring on a major depression as people cut back on spending to pay these profits.

Noooo, driving is a PRIVILEGE.

What may affect the LCO is the movement away from the subdivisions and back to the cities. At current prices, people are not only rethinking the gas swilling suv, they are also rethinking living 40 miles away from their place of work. I suspect in the coming years, the residential LCO market will shrink, so it may be time to plan accordingly.

Heck around here we got folks commuting 100 miles a day one way, we have lived the life of excess for too long, now we pay the price until such day it sinks in.

Your right, You should quit now and that goes for the rest of you also. Especial if you operate in Ohio, Specifically Northeastern Ohio. Just quit, All of you....Now....ok......thanks.....

Yeah yeah same for central VA, right on.

B_gerrits
06-11-2008, 01:41 PM
What economics class is teaching only about the amount of profits being a criteria of success or failure? You still have not defined "reasonable profits," "excessive profits," or similar terms. You are stuck on this one fact, and excluding the other information associated with the issue.

Many suggest, as you do, that exploration needs to be a priority. What is the source of the funding for the exploration? Others suggest updating and expanding refineries. What the source of funding to do these tasks? No business can spend money on new facilities, expand existing ones, apart from drawing upon money made from previous business transactions. Do you expect the stockholders to fork over money in the form of investment, knowing their investment will be drained away because of low, or negative profit margins?

What does the profits of other companies have to do with the issue? My question was the same as asked before, and it is the higher profit margins by other industries. If profit margins of the oil companies are too large, then you must believe profit margins by other industries are too large also (e.g. banking, software). Why isn't the same crowd that is harping on the profit margins of the oil companies harping on the other industries too? Why is the same crowd willing to spend their money on products and services of companies with much higher profit margins, and not complain?

How does the relationship between the politicians and the oil company officials impact the price of crude oil on the global commodities market? Crude oil trading is not unique to the US.

If the Oil Companies were investing this profit into exploration or drilling or refineries then it would not be profit it would be gross revenue and while the high price of gas would still be upsetting at least people would feel like something was being done about the problem in the long term. Your rebuttals have made me do some thinking. If the oil comps really are only making 8.5% profit margin the volume we are consuming is staggering.

It will be intresting to see if people are consuming less gas because of the restrictive price. If people start conserving gas will the prices level out? the price of almost any product is controlled by what people are willing to pay but with gas the oil comps can still make more money selling less volume by price hikes and right now people do not have a choice wheather to buy or not because they have to get to work. Will Americia invest in mass transit that is efficient like Europe? I know big cities have efficient mass trans but our mass transportation is a joke never on schedule. One thing is for sure these prices will have effect on the Americian way of life and I don't think it will be a good one.

whoopassonthebluegrass
06-11-2008, 03:27 PM
It will be intresting to see if people are consuming less gas because of the restrictive price.

Where I live there are suddenly people on bikes (in suits and ties, etc) like crazy. And a deluge of old Geo Metro's and the like have suddenly reappeared, as well as mopeds by the dozens. It's definitely taking its toll. I would wager that MOST Americans have a limited enough budget that they can't just "absorb it" and keep moving...

turfman33
06-11-2008, 07:16 PM
With the way gas prices are going something has to be done. We are all business owners here and gas price is effecting all of us. This could be a start. I see this early this mourning on Tv. It is a petition that is being sent to hopefully show how mad American people are getting and to try and push the right people to drill for oil in this country and stop the oil inport. So go to americansolutions.com and put your name down.

Charles
06-11-2008, 07:34 PM
With the way gas prices are going something has to be done. We are all business owners here and gas price is effecting all of us. This could be a start. I see this early this mourning on Tv. It is a petition that is being sent to hopefully show how mad American people are getting and to try and push the right people to drill for oil in this country and stop the oil inport. So go to americansolutions.com and put your name down.

WE cannot drill our way out of this problem:


US PRODUCTION, early 2002: About 5.9 million barrels of oil per day, plus about 2 million barrels of natural gas liquids and condensate; and 55 billion cubic feet of gas per day. Oil production is a decline from 8-9 million b/d in 1986.Update, 2005: at the end of 2005, US crude oil production stood at 4.86 million b/d, the lowest value in more than 50 years. Imports (10.01 million b/d) amounted to 67% of consumption. As shown in the figure at left, even when US production was at its peak in 1970 (and accounted for more than 40% of all the oil produced in the world), it could not keep up with consumption. Today's 21 million barrels per day consumption FAR outpaces our domestic production of 4.86 million barrels per day. Prudhoe Bay's contribution is shown in red. US oil consumption exceeds the total of the next 5 largest consumers - China, Japan, Russia, Germany, and India COMBINED. Source • From 1990 to 2007, US production decreased by 31% at the same time as consumption increased by 24%.


US crude-oil production capacity, about 5 million barrels per day, is accomplished with about 510,000 oil wells, averaging 10.5 barrels per well per day. (That's more than half of all the producing oil wells in the world. World Oil list of wells by country in 2000. The country with the most wells, after the US, is Russia at about 110,000; then China with around 80,000, and Canada with 68,000. World total producing oil wells is about 880,000.) Saudi capacity, at about 8-9 million barrels per day, is from 1500 wells — averaging more than 5,000 barrels per well per day. The best well in the onshore 48 states is in Grant Canyon Field, Nevada, producing about 4000 barrels per day from sucrosic Devonian dolomites in a small fault block. UPDATE: 1997 discoveries in the Williston Basin are producing up to 6,000 barrels per day from Mississippian Lodgepole carbonate mounds. These are the best wells in the onshore 48 states in decades -- but the Gulf of Mexico is the US hot spot for current exploration and production. THE FACT THAT THE US ALREADY HAS 510,000 wells is just one reason why we cannot simply "drill more wells" to achieve a fictional energy independence, as many Americans naively suggest. Most of the oil in the US has already been found and produced - the peak of US oil production happened in 1970, and it can NOT be achieved again.

meets1
06-11-2008, 11:54 PM
I think there is plenty of oil out there and the sepculators with big money are able to play this game and keep the prices up.

Today - oil hit $136 a barrel and stock mkt was off by 200 some points. Reserves are down says the US, need to prime the pumps in Saudi - they say no decision until Sept or so if they increase there pumping.

This is game and were the lossers here. Saudi and a few other important people with cash are making more cash than they ever dreamed of making.

Were still moving here in America. I my area, you see a few more people of bikes, mopeds, cycles, etc but to me that is an excuss as well bc/ there conveincing themselves that this $500 or $5k bike is justifiying the means of not driving my truck. How long are you going to have to drive that motor cycle or moped to recoup the cost of it vs gas in the truck?

Good for the cycle shops I guess. Like this industry, eventually you platio on a ceiliing price for your services. Some where gas as to do the same. Just don't know what that price might be.

I was thinking about this the other day. Why mow that empty lot and consume a few gallons of diesel or gas. Why not let that lot grow and who cares? Why does the county or private guy working for the state mow all those road ditches? To me that is where we can start but yet that is the business were in so therefore are you going to cut your own throat?

RickyDanner
06-13-2008, 01:18 AM
Someone, somewhere probably painted the same grim picture back in 1995 when gas was only $.99 a gallon. I am sure he said "In 2005 gas is gonna be $4.00 and then nobody is gonna pay for their yard to be mowed because the prices will be way to high" Learn the basics of economics and you will understand how it all works.......we are in a great business because unlike many businesses, there is will always be demand for our services. Just my 2 cents.

B_gerrits
06-13-2008, 12:13 PM
Someone, somewhere probably painted the same grim picture back in 1995 when gas was only $.99 a gallon. I am sure he said "In 2005 gas is gonna be $4.00 and then nobody is gonna pay for their yard to be mowed because the prices will be way to high" Learn the basics of economics and you will understand how it all works.......we are in a great business because unlike many businesses, there is will always be demand for our services. Just my 2 cents.

This industry has changed quite a bit in the last couple of years here. First of all we are getting a double hit meaning water prices are going way up with a lot of regs on consumption as well as gas prices going out of site. Now a lot of people are just letting their lawns go or are switching to xerisicape. People are cutting their expenses and choosing what is most important and in a lot of cases landscapes are losing which means less available jobs. At the same time every illegal is calling himself a landscaper meaning more competition for the jobs available. For you guys that are cruising along with buis as usual my hats off to you. To the small guy who hopes to make it big I suggest having a back up plan or doing this part time because I think we are in for trouble in this buis as will a lot of other buis will be in. The unemployment rate is already rising and this is just the beginning, prepare for a rough ride ahead IMO:dizzy:

wildboar
06-13-2008, 08:54 PM
WE cannot drill our way out of this problem:

Sure we can, but for some strange reason no one has talked much about it. Western North Dakota and eastern Montana have an assload that was previously too expensive to drill for, back when oil was 1/5 the price it is now.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/04/10/ndoil/

According to a government report published today that has stunned the energy biz, a thin layer of rock known as the Bakken Shale, located a couple of miles under the Badlands, holds up 4.3 billion barrels of recoverable oil, making it the single largest oil reservoir that federal scientists have ever assessed.

topsites
06-13-2008, 09:02 PM
Sure we can, but for some strange reason no one has talked much about it. Western North Dakota and eastern Montana have an assload that was previously too expensive to drill for, back when oil was 1/5 the price it is now.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/04/10/ndoil/

According to a government report published today that has stunned the energy biz, a thin layer of rock known as the Bakken Shale, located a couple of miles under the Badlands, holds up 4.3 billion barrels of recoverable oil, making it the single largest oil reservoir that federal scientists have ever assessed.

Yeah and in that very article Dorgan says:
"Under todays technology that cannot be recovered.
With tomorrows technology it likely could."

And tomorrow ain't here yet, also he said it was possible.
That means maybe...

doubleedge
06-13-2008, 10:04 PM
Gas when it was 50 cents a gallon are around 1 dollar from current prices when you adjust for inflation.

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/6523/pricesjj4.png

whoopassonthebluegrass
06-13-2008, 10:24 PM
Gas when it was 50 cents a gallon are around 1 dollar from current prices when you adjust for inflation.

Inflation, as the gov't interprets it excludes both food AND energies. This skews the accuracy of the inflation scale...

brucec32
06-14-2008, 02:14 PM
The best I can calculate it costs about $1/lawn ($35 lawns) extra to cover the price increase of gasoline from $3 to $4/gal. It's significant, but nobody has complained about price increases.

The thing you should be worried more about is the general rate of inflation that means you really need to charge about 10% extra to cover your own cost of living. Remember, if you pay 45% of your marginal income in taxes of one sort or another, you have to make 10% more to cover a 5.5% increase in the costs of running your household.

Monetary inflation is the culprit. Gas is only one of many commodities going up in price. Corn, soybeans, wheat, gold, silver, rice, take your pick.

meets1
06-14-2008, 11:35 PM
Yes, commodity prices are going - making me wish i was a farmer with $6.+ a bushel corn and 13-15 beans. Now with the flooding in Iowa and elsewhere - market willl move up as well.

Sure prices increase but my dad works in the grain department for a coop and where I get fert/chemical from also sell seed and fert. to farmers. There records show that 94% of all fert. was prepaid last fall - therefore there reaping the benefits now. 91% prepaid for there gas/deisel last fall. Therefore there input cost didn't rise much this year.

Next year will be a different story but i wish we could get a lawn subsidies!

topsites
06-15-2008, 05:57 AM
You gotta like this load thou:

"The Saudis are considering increasing output because they are concerned that sustained high oil prices will eventually slacken the world's appetite for oil, affecting them in the long run."

Source: Y! News.

wildboar
06-16-2008, 06:05 PM
Yeah and in that very article Dorgan says:
"Under todays technology that cannot be recovered.
With tomorrows technology it likely could."

And tomorrow ain't here yet, also he said it was possible.
That means maybe...

They're talking about the other estimated hundreds of billions of barrels.

From Wikipedia: A research paper by USGS geochemist Leigh Price in 1999 estimated the total amount of oil contained in the Bakken shale ranged from 271 billion to 503 billion barrels, with a mean of 413 billion barrels.

The 4.x billion barrels are immediately available. So unless you have relations with OPEC, this is a pretty bright future.

lapseal
06-16-2008, 08:12 PM
Gotcha didn't they. Everyone is in the same boat. Just keep working, plan your route and you will do fine. If you cut prices then you have to cut expenses. I do 45 lawns per summer with an average price of $33.50. That's $1,500.00 per week. My expenses run about $225.00, with a 10% hold back for retiring equipment. I add, mulching, burm building, shrub trimming, and tree prunning. I average approximatgely $ 75,000.00 annual without snowplowing. I pay 28.8 % tax and have a spendable income of $53,000.00. I have tought ab out charging a fuel surcharge, but it would only amout to $1-2.00 per lawn, sounds kinda cheap.

MNelson
06-17-2008, 06:02 PM
What I truly find amazing is that most people believe what they read/hear in the media. I work in the oilfield and i know personally that we are able to produce oil from shale and sand. In all honesty here in the Basin i work in oil is a byproduct not the mainn item we drill for. The solution to gas prices is easy
1:Open up our wells that we have capped.
2:allow us to drill in the areas currently off limits to us but not to other countries ie the gulf.
3: For bush to come out and back the dollar. When the dollar is seen as weak it screws our economy.
4: Build more refineries/update current one in use.

Also china has the same if not higher demand as we do!


Just my .02 from a guy who works in the patch.

MnDLawn
06-17-2008, 06:33 PM
We are having one of our best years, you just need to be business smart, everything from scheduling, employees to knowing where to save a buck. Hopefully the higher gas prices will weed out the hacks.

ATL Lawn
06-18-2008, 10:22 PM
if anyone is gonna start a lawncare business this season or next few dont bother.. with the price of gas and where gas is suppost to be next year (over 5.00) trust me this is not a good business to get into. and if the news stations are right saying in 10 to 15 years it will be 15.00 a gallon how in the world will anyone still pay for there grass to be cut at what we will have to charge..

next, the goverment keeps saying global warming and about how we need more resources because oils not it and yet not doing nothing but blaming the people.. why dont our goverment do like brazil and make gas with sugar??????????????????????:confused::confused::hammerhead: 1.00 a gallon and burns clean.. i will tell you why, because some people in goverment making a ton of money out of the oil thing. soon we will be a country like in back to the future 2 where only a few so will have rights and money and the rest will be homeless with nothing and no rights.

you got that right..... dont elect OIL men into office



http://ehoez.com/gasprice2.jpg

jeffex
06-18-2008, 10:42 PM
mnelson is typical of a guy who is at the forefront of what the truth is. we are sold a bunch of BS in the news about what is going on . Here is a guy who knows first hand of the real situation. What amazes me is if I were to say I saw a UFO I would be called a kook but if the media showed us a tape of one we would all believe. There are REAL people who know the facts about our oil reserves and production capacity but they will never get a voice because its not politically correct. Hell they probably have a site just like this where they vent! Use your own mind to believe there is oil on US soil and lets get it . If its not there them we"ll know soo enough but they can drill in my back yard if it means our country continues to be the greatest place on earth to raise a family and enjoy what the good lord gave us to use!!! I have NO guilt for the success of this country and the others simply want to be just like us when they grow up. If we're all addicted to oil then what the hell lets grow our own!!!

Frontier-Lawn
06-18-2008, 10:49 PM
i will be fine since i am going to all propane mowers in the near future.

B_gerrits
06-20-2008, 12:14 PM
They're talking about the other estimated hundreds of billions of barrels.

From Wikipedia: A research paper by USGS geochemist Leigh Price in 1999 estimated the total amount of oil contained in the Bakken shale ranged from 271 billion to 503 billion barrels, with a mean of 413 billion barrels.

The 4.x billion barrels are immediately available. So unless you have relations with OPEC, this is a pretty bright future.

Is the Bakken shale the one in Colorado? There is an shale oil field in Colorado that has more oil than all the Arab countries put together. The govt let the oil companies insert some rods into the ground and heat it up to extreme temps and then pump it out. Anyways the project was proceeding well until the governor of Colorado shut it down in the name of enviromental impact. I think in this case the feds should override the state and say we will be extracting this oil weather you like it or not.

whoopassonthebluegrass
06-20-2008, 12:18 PM
Is the Bakken shale the one in Colorado? There is an shale oil field in Colorado that has more oil than all the Arab countries put together. The govt let the oil companies insert some rods into the ground and heat it up to extreme temps and then pump it out. Anyways the project was proceeding well until the governor of Colorado shut it down in the name of enviromental impact. I think in this case the feds should override the state and say we will be extracting this oil weather you like it or not.

There's shale all along the Green River. It was actually being excavated in the late 70's - but was proven to be non-cost-effective. It was abandoned b/c they realized that unless the cost of a barrel was higher than $30, it just wasn't profitable.

Well, obviously we're well beyond that point... But the tree huggers are now more problematic than ever...

MyKisa
06-21-2008, 03:14 PM
sierra club is gearing up[ big time, to fight gasification of coal. Ther is no shortage of oil in America, only a shortage of leaders.

jeffex
06-21-2008, 03:41 PM
sierra club is gearing up[ big time, to fight gasification of coal. Ther is no shortage of oil in America, only a shortage of leaders.

best thing I've read in a long time!!!!