PDA

View Full Version : Bad Boy Diesel Mower


timber132007
05-24-2008, 07:34 PM
I am considering purchasing a 72" AOS series with the 35 hp Cat diesel and was wondering if I could get some feedback from anyone that has a Bad Boy diesel mower. I currently have two Lazer Z XS mowers with the 35 hp Briggs Big Block engine and a 60" Lazer Z so this will be my first purchase of anything other than Exmark.

My main questions on the Cat diesel are how many gallons of fuel per hour roughly does it use(my 2 big blocks avg. about 1.8gph) and how long have these particular Cat diesels been run in mowers(reliability). My big blocks are real strong so how would the 35 hp Cat compare to them. I was assuming being diesel that it would have more torque but would there much of a noticable difference in power overall. My last question is what would should I expect pricewise for a 72" cut with the 35 hp Cat diesel engine. Any other feedback I could get on Bad Boy Diesel mowers would be greatly appreciated.

tb8100
05-24-2008, 08:24 PM
the AOS 35/72 sells for $12,700. It puts out 70lb-ft of torque, roughly 20 lb-ft more than your big block Vanguards. On the charts, the big blocks are rated at 3gph, whereas the CAT uses 2gph. What that amounts to in real world numbers, I couldn't tell you. Obviously, your big blocks are using far less than 3gph, but if these numbers are anywhere close to accurate, the CAT is 30% more efficient.

You're gonna love the speed, power, and comfort of the AOS (as well as a great cut quality).

timber132007
05-24-2008, 09:28 PM
tb8100, Thanks for the info! Does anyone know how the 35/72 has been are far as reliability and durability. I do a lot of large area mowing that is not smooth so the mowers get bumped and banged around a good bit. The Exmarks I own have held up pretty good. I have seen Bad Boy's features they advertise like the 1/4" thick deck and strong frame, etc.. Are they as durable as other main ZTR brands.

With regards to reliability have there been any issues with the Cat diesel so far? Is it a Cat diesel made by Cat(I have a Cat backhoe with a Perkins engine). I have heard that lawn equipment dealers can't work on the engine. Could I go to my local Cat equipment dealer to get work done on it if needed? The last question I have is why are Bad Boys priced lower than brands like Hustler and Exmark? I've heard good things about Bad Boys and am in no way trying to run them down but a 35 hp Cat diesel in a Hustler or Exmark mower if it was offered would probably run 14,000 plus. So why are they less expensive?

CAT MAN
05-24-2008, 09:33 PM
Ive heard good things about the bad boy havent demoed one but the cat diesel is a good motor

coobie
05-24-2008, 09:48 PM
the AOS 35/72 sells for $12,700. It puts out 70lb-ft of torque, roughly 20 lb-ft more than your big block Vanguards. On the charts, the big blocks are rated at 3gph, whereas the CAT uses 2gph. What that amounts to in real world numbers, I couldn't tell you. Obviously, your big blocks are using far less than 3gph, but if these numbers are anywhere close to accurate, the CAT is 30% more efficient.

You're gonna love the speed, power, and comfort of the AOS (as well as a great cut quality).I think I would look at the kubota pro ZD331 (31hp)with 72 inch cut for about the same price.:)

tb8100
05-24-2008, 09:58 PM
I am a dealer for these mowers and have had only positive experiences. I rarely do a warranty service on anything bigger than ZTs. The frame is very strong and very durable. You'll find the suspension will reduce the strain on the chassis as a whole over the lifetime of the unit.

The engine is a Perkins C1.6, a 1.5L 4 cylinder engine that wasn't designed with the turf application in mind, it just works well in it. The C1.1 is another Perkins engine Bad Boy uses (the 28hp), and you'll find it on the Scag Turf Tiger and a couple other well known machines. Both engines were released this time 2 years ago. I don't know of any real issues with them. Perhaps someone running these could provide some input on the reliability. As far as service goes, your local Bad Boy dealer can do external work, but all internal work needs to be done at a CAT service center. Alot of times, CAT will send a service truck right to your dealer so you don't have to take it to another service center. Talk to your dealer to see how they have worked this out.

There are a number of reasons why Bad Boys are priced better than the competition, and it isn't that they're made in China or something ridiculous like that. The folks at Bad Boy are just super at running as efficiently as possible. They build units to order, so there are no mowers sitting around waiting for dealers to buy them. Everything cranked out of that factory has been sold. They use robotic welders and laser cutters to reduce the manpower required to build machines. They also have a state of the art powder coating system capable of cranking out 2000 units per day, though it only takes 15 employees to run it. Another thing is they go direct to dealer, so there is no distributor making a few percent per unit. No middle man, so to speak.

There are a number of other things that make them cheaper and it doesn't pertain to lower quality construction. Does that answer your question?

tb8100
05-24-2008, 10:02 PM
I think I would look at the kubota pro ZD331 (31hp)with 72 inch cut for about the same price.:)

that 31hp has nothing on the CAT as far as power output, and the Bad Boy is alot faster and a whole lot more comfortable of a mower. Can you even get the Michigan suspension seat on the 331?

coobie
05-24-2008, 10:09 PM
that 31hp has nothing on the CAT as far as power output, and the Bad Boy is alot faster and a whole lot more comfortable of a mower. Can you even get the Michigan suspension seat on the 331?Yes:)I own a 2006 Kubota ZD pro 326 and could not be happier:)

timber132007
05-24-2008, 10:25 PM
tb8100, Thanks again for really good information on the Bad Boy mower. Being that I currently have 2 Lazer Z XS mowers that will run 12 mph the Kubota wouldn't interest me if it is slower. It looks like a nice machine but not for my application. Doing mostly large area mowing I need something fast(15 mph range) and powerful. That mainly is why I am looking at the Bad Boy AOS series. Its the only ZTR other than the Hustler Super Z with that kind of top speed and it is more powerful than anything currently offered by Hustler.

coobie
05-24-2008, 10:30 PM
I am a dealer for these mowers and have had only positive experiences. I rarely do a warranty service on anything bigger than ZTs. The frame is very strong and very durable. You'll find the suspension will reduce the strain on the chassis as a whole over the lifetime of the unit.

The engine is a Perkins C1.6, a 1.5L 4 cylinder engine that wasn't designed with the turf application in mind, it just works well in it. The C1.1 is another Perkins engine Bad Boy uses (the 28hp), and you'll find it on the Scag Turf Tiger and a couple other well known machines. Both engines were released this time 2 years ago. I don't know of any real issues with them. Perhaps someone running these could provide some input on the reliability. As far as service goes, your local Bad Boy dealer can do external work, but all internal work needs to be done at a CAT service center. Alot of times, CAT will send a service truck right to your dealer so you don't have to take it to another service center. Talk to your dealer to see how they have worked this out.

There are a number of reasons why Bad Boys are priced better than the competition, and it isn't that they're made in China or something ridiculous like that. The folks at Bad Boy are just super at running as efficiently as possible. They build units to order, so there are no mowers sitting around waiting for dealers to buy them. Everything cranked out of that factory has been sold. They use robotic welders and laser cutters to reduce the manpower required to build machines. They also have a state of the art powder coating system capable of cranking out 2000 units per day, though it only takes 15 employees to run it. Another thing is they go direct to dealer, so there is no distributor making a few percent per unit. No middle man, so to speak.

There are a number of other things that make them cheaper and it doesn't pertain to lower quality construction. Does that answer your question?The only down fall IMHO would be how long would it take to get a CAT service truck to my dealer to service the cat motor?

timber132007
05-24-2008, 10:51 PM
tb8100, Just out of curiosity what is the oil capacity of the 35 hp Cat and would you happen to know why they call for 20w50 oil when most diesels run 15w40?

grassman177
05-24-2008, 11:07 PM
i think the bad boy diesel model looks like a super contender. we have the 326 kubotas and love them, they plow throught the grass well, demoed a 331/60 and it was a beast, almost too much power for the lawns i do. i have found that the no flat front tires slow me down a hair my estimating, they are rougher. i sure do lov ethe worry free part of them!!!! i have had many a plug in my air filled front tires. i would love to give the bad boy a run, but couldnt really be happier witht he kubotas and the service is great with my dealer

tb8100
05-24-2008, 11:44 PM
The only down fall IMHO would be how long would it take to get a CAT service truck to my dealer to service the cat motor?

Not long at all. Our local CAT dealer has a fleet of service trucks at their disposal. And that's only if you have an internal issue on the engine, which is highly unlikely.

tb8100
05-24-2008, 11:58 PM
tb8100, Just out of curiosity what is the oil capacity of the 35 hp Cat and would you happen to know why they call for 20w50 oil when most diesels run 15w40?

it holds just under 7qts IIRC (like 6.9qt). I don't know off the top of my head why they call for a different viscosity. I'll ask one of the techs when I get back in town.

WREBELMACHINE
05-24-2008, 11:58 PM
You said you wanted something fast and only bad boy or hustler fit that! Question have you looked at dixie chopper? 35hp diesel 74" cut 9.2acres and hr! And very smooth!

tb8100
05-25-2008, 12:04 AM
i think the bad boy diesel model looks like a super contender. we have the 326 kubotas and love them, they plow throught the grass well, demoed a 331/60 and it was a beast, almost too much power for the lawns i do. i have found that the no flat front tires slow me down a hair my estimating, they are rougher. i sure do lov ethe worry free part of them!!!! i have had many a plug in my air filled front tires. i would love to give the bad boy a run, but couldnt really be happier witht he kubotas and the service is great with my dealer

If you've got a dealer that is giving you great service, don't give that up easily. If you have a Bad Boy dealer that will also take good care of you, the Bad Boy is a much more productive and comfortable machine. A set of flat frees will not slow you down. The Michigan 5300 torsion suspension seat and the 4 wheel suspension offers an incredible ride, even with flat free tires.

timber132007
05-25-2008, 12:04 AM
Wow! That is a lot of oil for a lawnmower but it is a diesel. I guess the change intervals would be extended being that its liquid cooled. I change every 40-50 hours on my air cooled engines. Thanks for the reply.

timber132007
05-25-2008, 12:10 AM
WREBELMACHINE, I'm familiar with the Dixie Chopper but don't have a dealer close by. Who makes the diesel engine they put in the Choppers?

tb8100
05-25-2008, 12:13 AM
Wow! That is a lot of oil for a lawnmower but it is a diesel. I guess the change intervals would be extended being that its liquid cooled. I change every 40-50 hours on my air cooled engines. Thanks for the reply.

The CAT engine is designed for 500 oil change intervals. More oil circulating through the engine is better! A 1.5L 4 cylinder really should take alot more oil than your 950cc v-twin.

Glad to help where I can! :)

WREBELMACHINE
05-25-2008, 12:19 AM
They use Yanmar in the choppers! That is too bad we do large acerage mowing too and have run several diffrent brands of mowers and all of them have there strong points for sure!

timber132007
05-25-2008, 12:26 AM
tb8100, Thanks for all the insight on the Bad Boy. Your comment earlier about sticking with good dealers is spot on. I have a Exmark dealer in my area that I have gotten good service from. When I decided to acquire another 72" mower it was hard to stray from Exmark and my dealer because I have been satisfied with them but a little more ground speed will help a lot with productivity. I'm ready to demo a Bad Boy diesel soon.

MJB
05-25-2008, 01:25 AM
I am considering purchasing a 72" AOS series with the 35 hp Cat diesel and was wondering if I could get some feedback from anyone that has a Bad Boy diesel mower. I currently have two Lazer Z XS mowers with the 35 hp Briggs Big Block engine and a 60" Lazer Z so this will be my first purchase of anything other than Exmark.

My main questions on the Cat diesel are how many gallons of fuel per hour roughly does it use(my 2 big blocks avg. about 1.8gph) and how long have these particular Cat diesels been run in mowers(reliability). My big blocks are real strong so how would the 35 hp Cat compare to them. I was assuming being diesel that it would have more torque but would there much of a noticable difference in power overall. My last question is what would should I expect pricewise for a 72" cut with the 35 hp Cat diesel engine. Any other feedback I could get on Bad Boy Diesel mowers would be greatly appreciated.

Go to badboymowers.com and watch the videos There is one that shows the factory this shows why they are probably going to be a leader in the industry soon.

TheOctagon
05-25-2008, 10:00 PM
I just mowed w/ a 35hp cat w/ a 72" deck. Our rep dropped it off for the weekend and i put 3 hours on it. Used 3 gallons of fuel. I was even mowin heavy grass that was pretty tall and the engine had .6 hours on it when i got it so its not even loosened up yet at all. I was extremely impressed. I almost ordered myself one but the load im gettin is already full haha. We'll definately have one by next year. Just having it here for 3 days it has brought in 4 potential diesel sales.

Turf Gnome
06-27-2008, 02:56 AM
I demoed a ASOD 35 Hp 60" Bad Boy and it's a hell of a machine. However for dealer support here is only 1 dealer close to me and I'm a bit leary on them. So, I decided to go with the Scag TT w/ 61" Velocity Plus and the 29 Hp LC Kawasaki engine. IT's only 12 mph but the fuel economy was worth it for me to get the Scag over the Bad Boy. Diesel prices are crazy and only going up (as with all fuels), and if you cost in the maintenance routines, its actually more expensive to run the Diesel engines. But the torque is downright amazing. They can pull a semi trailer if needed!

cutsit
06-27-2008, 11:50 AM
"I rarely do a warranty service on anything bigger than ZTs. "

Hey tb8100 - What are the main warranty complaints for the ZT's?

Happy Frog
06-27-2008, 01:37 PM
"I rarely do a warranty service on anything bigger than ZTs. "

Hey tb8100 - What are the main warranty complaints for the ZT's?

How do you like your ZT? How does it compare to others brands?

cutsit
06-27-2008, 02:09 PM
So far, so good.

It was the heaviest built of everything I looked at. Front casters and deck are Heavy Duty. The Briggs engine has plenty of power. We'll see about how well the Briggs lasts. Have 6 hours on it. Changed the engine oil for the first time at 5 hours. Dang oil filter was $11. Not used to that. I may sneak up to the Deere dealer for the next filter. I think they will be cheaper. The cut is better than my Deere 318. Leaves nice stripes. Takes me 60% of the time to mow. That is why I went zero turn. I love my JD 318 and won't get rid of it.

I looked at Scag, Hustler, Bush Hog and Deere. Everything but the Deere had the ZT2800 hydros. The Deere had pump and motors which is a plus for it. Scag and Hustler felt like I was sitting in a hole and were hard to get out of. They were more money too.

Bush Hog was a close second to Bad Boy but the Bad Boy had a heavier deck, heavier casters, electric deck lift and was cheaper. The Bad Boy deck attachment looks to me to be a Catagory 1 three point hitch top link!

The Deere Z445 for the same money wasn't even close when comparing the quality of frame and deck. Looks like aluminum foil compared to the Bad Boy.

My main complaint about the ZT is the location of the choke. It is between your feet. I keep kicking it. I can't find a good place to relocate. A nit picky complaint is the location of the tach/hour meter. It is behind the seat in front of the engine. I can't see it when I'm in the seat. Mainly want it for the hour meter though.

That is probably more than you wanted to know, but you asked.

Happy Frog
06-27-2008, 04:36 PM
I did not want to hack this tread but I am still undecided about buying a small (36") ZTR. I am getting tired of walking behind my 21" on the residential yards I have and even so my Lightning gives me a great cut on these, it is too big and heavy for most of them.
Thanks for the info.

FordLawnLandscape
06-27-2008, 06:51 PM
I think I would look at the kubota pro ZD331 (31hp)with 72 inch cut for about the same price.:)

Preach on bruther !! I have the 331 and the 326 both diesels ! Dont see anyone beating the quality of the kubota diesel and the quality of cut it they offer :nono:

mybowtie
06-27-2008, 11:47 PM
Diesel prices are crazy and only going up (as with all fuels), and if you cost in the maintenance routines, its actually more expensive to run the Diesel engines. But the torque is downright amazing. They can pull a semi trailer if needed!

How are diesels more expensive to run?? Use less fuel then comparable gas engines. Oil change intervills are 3-4 times longer. No plugs to change. Oil filters may cost a little more, but last much longer. The inital cost is more, but the cost of running one is compairable to gassers.........:usflag:

retrodog
06-28-2008, 12:20 AM
Hey, I got my 35hp 72" diesel demo today, and its sweeeeet. I was kinda worried about putting up that much money on a demo, but it paid off, I have already sold 2 today just like it!!!! I brought it home to try out this afternoon, and OMG its awesome! I have an acre yard and just wiped it out in no time! I have 5 demoes scheduled next week already, and one LCO was almost begging to let him have it for the weekend.....come on, you don't need all weekend to decide on a mower.....:nono::laugh: talk about something you can make up some profit margins on, say bye bye to the long hours spent on the big industrial and country yards....lol The only issues I have heard with the cat diesel in the turf applications is the Governor going out. I have heard about a couple on the net, and I have had one customer that it happened to, no problem though the field mechanic was 4 days behind, so I just took it to the Cat dealer for the customer and got it fixed.

DuallyVette
06-28-2008, 12:23 AM
How are diesels more expensive to run?? Use less fuel then comparable gas engines. Oil change intervills are 3-4 times longer. No plugs to change. Oil filters may cost a little more, but last much longer. The inital cost is more, but the cost of running one is compairable to gassers.........:usflag:

Diesels are #1.