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View Full Version : hunter or rainbird gears? (did search)


RedWingsDet
05-25-2008, 12:50 AM
I am not a fan of Maxi's, to many problems here in MI. People have Maxi's in beds with mulch, dirt, pine needles, etc., you know the story there. So I try to convince all my service customers to switch from impacts to gear driven. Anyway, I always use pgp's, but I also realize many of the pgp's after a year or two leak (manufacture issue perhaps, like the irritrol swing pipe defect).

My question is which is better rb gears or hunter gears?

I am not a fan or RB (for heads), but thats just me. I am open to all suggestions. Thanks!

BTW: I did do a search and all I found was gear vs impact. Not rb vs hunter.

CAPT Stream Rotar
05-25-2008, 09:07 AM
I like the pgp....you should document the issues you are having with the hunters!

It seems that they are having issues people aren't talking about...anyhow, Have you looked into the stream rotors..I love them for watering beds gardens....they aren't to much in 1 spot...

check into it Toro 300 series....Great head...It was generations before the mp rotor..
Actually I'm doing a job with Stream rotors this week...Pics as par the course will be posted...

FIMCO-MEISTER
05-25-2008, 09:11 AM
Hunter has a pgp that replaces the maxi paw by going into its body. If it works makes for a quick change out. I've never used just saw it in their catalog.

Wet_Boots
05-25-2008, 09:29 AM
A Maxipaw might outlive either mfr's gear drive, if you keep them in the lawn areas, and installed a tad above grade, in kind of the same way that Hunter suggests for their PGPs, etc.

Mike Leary
05-25-2008, 11:28 AM
Have you looked into the stream rotors..I love them for watering beds gardens....they aren't to much in 1 spot..
check into it Toro 300 series....Great head...It was generations before the mp rotor...

As long as you have plenty of pressure & gpm, they are the best!
Cool to watch work, like staring at a campfire. :clapping::drinkup:

irrig8r
05-25-2008, 02:51 PM
As long as you have plenty of pressure & gpm, they are the best!
Cool to watch work, like staring at a campfire. :clapping::drinkup:

I beg to differ.... they were entertaining, but not very effective.


Maybe designers just didn't get it, but we worked with some already installed sytems on large sweeping lawn areas in the 80s and they were awful.
We'd change a nozzle and the brown spot would just move over.

Spacing is critical with them, and when they started out with the 01s, 02s, and 03s there were just no in-betweens. Every installation I ran across was a bad compromise.

Oil bath gear drives would gum up or leak out over time.

I gave the adjustable radius nozzles a shot, but the caps never stayed on for long.

I ended up getting rid of all my leftover inventory and nozzle box via freecycle.com last year.

CAPT Stream Rotar
05-25-2008, 02:58 PM
I beg to differ.... they were entertaining, but not very effective.


Maybe designers just didn't get it, but we worked with some already installed sytems on large sweeping lawn areas in the 80s and they were awful.
We'd change a nozzle and the brown spot would just move over.

Spacing is critical with them, and when they started out with the 01s, 02s, and 03s there were just no in-betweens. Every installation I ran across was a bad compromise.

Oil bath gear drives would gum up or leak out over time.

I gave the adjustable radius nozzles a shot, but the caps never stayed on for long.

I ended up getting rid of all my leftover inventory and nozzle box via freecycle.com last year.

for turf i can see your issues..but when Head to head coverage is not need they are a great head....in the name of the father sun holy spirit

RedWingsDet
05-25-2008, 03:05 PM
for turf i can see your issues..but when Head to head coverage is not need they are a great head....in the name of the father sun holy spirit

when would head to head coverage not be necessary? beds/gardens?

CAPT Stream Rotar
05-25-2008, 03:09 PM
when would head to head coverage not be necessary? beds/gardens?

BINGO!

And rotAr was his NAME O

DanaMac
05-25-2008, 03:18 PM
when would head to head coverage not be necessary? beds/gardens?

Or in natural/native grass areas that are not typically manicured lawns

RedWingsDet
05-25-2008, 03:19 PM
thanks guys, thats common sense i suppose.

so back on topic, hunter or rb gear rotors?

Wet_Boots
05-25-2008, 03:25 PM
thanks guys, thats common sense i suppose.

so back on topic, hunter or rb gear rotors?If you want the best, the answer is "Neither"

CAPT Stream Rotar
05-25-2008, 03:26 PM
We had issue with the RB heads a while ago..After they were blown out the next season they wouldn't turn..Im talking brand new !!!

so needless to say Im a hunter guy..
Here is how it breaks down for me

RB 5000 V pgp

1.rb throws water better...better spray pattern..
2.Hunter's have to be turned down a ton to get a decent spray pattern with red nozzles
3.The hunter pgp is more durable IMHO...

So I go hunter all the time..
But I tell you the 3500 knocks the pgm/pgj into the dirt every time
I love putting a 3 gallon nozzle in the 35 and let them fly!!!!Great coverage..

hope that helped

DanaMac
05-25-2008, 03:37 PM
So I go hunter all the time..
But I tell you the 3500 knocks the pgm/pgj into the dirt every time
I love putting a 3 gallon nozzle in the 35 and let them fly!!!!Great coverage..

I've had more failures with the 3500s than all the others mentioned. I am stopping using all mini rotors. Too many problems with all and they cost MORE than the others.

I have had more PGP replacements this year than ever. These are heads installed from 1-5 years ago primarily. Some are ones I installed last year. Stopped turning. And a few of the leaking ones.

FIMCO-MEISTER
05-25-2008, 04:05 PM
My head of choice is the RB 5000 with the sam/prs installed. A higher prs setting than the 1804. Awesome spray and even through the whole zone.

Wet_Boots
05-25-2008, 04:09 PM
I've done stream rotor systems without using head-to-head spacing, and no bare spots. But I did have plenty of pressure - no skimping allowed on pressure. Given the slipshod design of a lot of systems, I'd blame stream rotor woes on the system designer first.

Best head at fully retracting after watering? Toro 300 stream rotor.

Wet_Boots
05-25-2008, 04:50 PM
But if it was a choice between Hunter PGPs and Rainbird 5004s, I take the PGPs because I have a better chance of installing a system that won't need callbacks.

DanaMac
05-25-2008, 05:02 PM
PGPs are also a pain when sand gets filled into the nozzle adjustment spot. That little hex wrench will not fit into the screw and it is a pain to clean out. Also the Screw can get stripped out and the wrench will spin, usually when the sand issue comes up. The 5000 has a standard flat head screw adjustment. When sand gets in it is easier to get the screwdriver in and still adjust.

I will admit, the PGP outperforms in longterm reliability. But I prefer the 5000. Better price, easier to adjust, better nozzle selection and LAs already on the tree.

Wet_Boots
05-25-2008, 05:15 PM
Sand does become a problem with hex adjustment screws, so hopefully you don't need to adjust them years after installation. It's a balance, choosing between installation ease and long-term reliability. I wanted the reliability, so I accepted the up-front hassles of the more reliable heads.

Mike Leary
05-25-2008, 05:19 PM
when would head to head coverage not be necessary? beds/gardens?

Head to head is always preferred, not always achieved, at the expense of
the plants. The reason so many installers shy away from Stream Rotors
is they are very picky about spacing and pressure. Give me a Stream Rotor
(no adjustable nozzles, please) with 50 pounds at the head & lotsa water:
I'll make Ed Hunter smile from irrigator's heaven. :)

Wet_Boots
05-25-2008, 05:24 PM
Not that it's been asked for here, but the venerable 300 is one of the very few rotor heads that can perform from a riser, on a standalone basis. This is the domain of the impact heads, and very few others. The more the 'rain curtain game' is played between Hunter and Rainbird, the more close-in downward throw you are seeing from the nozzles, but not as good as the 300 could manage.

Mike Leary
05-25-2008, 05:42 PM
I always liked the term ," reinforced edge". The RB 5000 Plus stainless 6"
is working great for me, after some adjusting bugs were worked out. The
MPR nozzles seem to be heavy on front load, but my meter says not.
The 5000 + has flow stop & will retro to PGP & T-Bird bodies. The arc adjustment screw seems to clean itself. Bottom line? Hunter I-20 ultra, Toro Stream Rotor for turf & plantings..neck & neck, 5000+ not a bad third.

AI Inc
05-26-2008, 08:24 AM
I've had more failures with the 3500s than all the others mentioned. I am stopping using all mini rotors. Too many problems with all and they cost MORE than the others.

I have had more PGP replacements this year than ever. These are heads installed from 1-5 years ago primarily. Some are ones I installed last year. Stopped turning. And a few of the leaking ones.

Im with ya there. We stopped using mini rotors about a month into the season the yr that pgj,s came out.
Only ones I never tried were Krain mini pro,s .

AI Inc
05-26-2008, 08:26 AM
[QUOTE=DanaMac;2340201]PGPs are also a pain when sand gets filled into the nozzle adjustment spot. That little hex wrench will not fit into the screw and it is a pain to clean out. Also the Screw can get stripped out and the wrench will spin, usually when the sand issue comes up. The 5000 has a standard flat head screw adjustment. When sand gets in it is easier to get the screwdriver in and still adjust.

I QUOTE]

Thats when ya sell a new head. Dont ya remember that conversation,lol

AI Inc
05-26-2008, 08:28 AM
The biggest reason Im a hunter guy is we have to build a lot of systems on less then 8 gpm . Hunter is the only manufacturer that makes nozzles small enough to get 4 heads on a zone with matched precipitation on low gpm systems.

CAPT Stream Rotar
05-26-2008, 09:12 AM
that must suck to work with such low volume/ pressure

Wet_Boots
05-26-2008, 11:26 AM
that must suck to work with such low volume/ pressureIt isn't so bad, if you work within the limitations. I will always want to have PGPs for these 'small water' systems. What can really suck, is if you have some older PGP systems with lower operating pressures and spread layouts. Replace a busted head, and the new PGP can spray as much as five feet shorter than the old one did. And Hunter never kept making any of the older nozzles, once they started trying to copy the rain curtain type, as their standard red nozzles do (5,6,7,8 sizes specifically)

FIMCO-MEISTER
05-26-2008, 12:51 PM
It isn't so bad, if you work within the limitations. I will always want to have PGPs for these 'small water' systems. What can really suck, is if you have some older PGP systems with lower operating pressures and spread layouts. Replace a busted head, and the new PGP can spray as much as five feet shorter than the old one did. And Hunter never kept making any of the older nozzles, once they started trying to copy the rain curtain type, as their standard red nozzles do (5,6,7,8 sizes specifically)

I thought for sure you'd use maxi-paws on low water systems. I know I would. I wouldn't use a gear drive rotor if my initial pressure is 50psi or less.

Wet_Boots
05-26-2008, 01:15 PM
I thought for sure you'd use maxi-paws on low water systems. I know I would. I wouldn't use a gear drive rotor if my initial pressure is 50psi or less.I think Hunter actually gave 20 psi performance numbers in their earliest charts, back when their "Series 075" was introduced, with the fixed arcs. You can probably cover more area with PGPs with tiny nozzles than with Maxipaws, especially on irregular layouts.

Mike Leary
05-26-2008, 07:38 PM
Stream Rotors at work.

DanaMac
05-26-2008, 07:43 PM
Stream Rotors at work.

Mike, if I could work on more properties like that, I could probably charge more. We just don't have 'em here. Not a ton of very high end homes with large mature landscaping like I see in lots of your photos. Some, but not tons. Very transient town. People move in, move out, move on. Lots of military.

Nice photos by the way.

Mike Leary
05-26-2008, 07:50 PM
Nice photos by the way.

Thanks, Dana, I lucked out in my market choice.

DanaMac
05-26-2008, 07:53 PM
Thanks, Dana, I lucked out in my market choice.

Oh I'm happy with where I live. And our cost to live tends to be a little cheaper here as well. GF is from Oregon, but I can't convince her to move back that way. I do like it up there.

FIMCO-MEISTER
05-26-2008, 08:04 PM
Wow Mike awesome photos. When I worked for a Prof at A&M in the 70s putting in systems I used to see that on a daily basis. Now all I see in Stream rotors are systems that have been butchered by pgp replacements.