Organic license, what is its name?

[zapmaz]

Looking through the Florida dept of agriculture, there are quite a few licenses. Which license or certificate does one have to have in order to be certified to use organic materials on lawns?

[DeepGreenLawn]

Your probably looking for the pesticide applicators license. Here in GA there is not an "organic" license. You have to have a pesticide license to apply chemicals for hire (as a business) period. That should be the one to look for. And then, if your not doing straight organic and you may need the use of a traditional chem you already have the license. I have the Standards, and Turf and Ornamental. I don't know if they are called the same there in FL, I also have to have a commercial applicators license too.

[Go-Green Lawn Care]

You do not need an applicators license in the state of Fl to apply organic fertilizer. The rule of thumb is, "If you don't need a license to buy it, then you don't need one to use it."

That was straight from the DOA.

[DeepGreenLawn]

you need a new rule, I don't need a license to buy 24d but I need a license to put it out for hire. This is GA though, so I am sure it differs from state to state

[Go-Green Lawn Care]

LOL, that "rule" was straight out of the mouth of a rep at the Florida DOA.

[zapmaz]

Go Green Lawn Care :
What about organic weed and feed, do you need a license to buy it?

[DeepGreenLawn]

organic weed and feed? is there such a thing or are you talking about CGM?

[Mscottw2]

Yea, no such thing as organic weed and feed. I get all of my products at a local feed store. Anyone can walk in and buy it off the shelf. I suggest you find one in your area, go down there and have a look around. Read the bags, take some mental notes, and don't be scared to ask questions. Find out what they carry and what they don't. Then educate yourself as much as possible on the products they do carry and find out if it will work for you, or look some where else.

Unfortunately I'm still looking for a good compost supplier. The city used to provide it for free, but now they're into processing their own waste and created a local product similar to Milorganite.

[ICT Bill]

Go-Green Lawn Care
The Division of Agricultural Environmental Services controls fertilizers and pesticides in FL. I believe if you call Bill Cox and ask him about applying unregistered fertilizers in FL he will give you a much different answer

The fertilizer must be registered as a fertilizer to be used for the stated application. Now if you state that you are just amending the soil, it must be registered as a soil amendment in FL. It is all about what you state you are doing.

If you state that you are apply a fertilizer and it is a bag of alfalfa meal with no guarenteed analysis on it you are breaking the law and can be fined

Answers are here http://www.flaes.org/

[Mscottw2]

Thanks Bill for the link. However when I went to the website, it seemed to me that you only needed as license if you were either a manufacturer or a dealer.

So I e-mailed Bill Cox and asked him if you need a license to put down meals and compost/teas and such, and I got this response. I hope it is helpful to others in the future. Hopefully it will finally put this question to rest.......at least here in Fl.

"We currently do not regulate the use or application of fertilizer. If you were to apply a fertilizer product that was guaranteed by a company (name appearing on the bag) that is a registered Fertilizer Licensee with our agency, no license would be required. Attached is a current licensee list, cross-reference the name of the company appearing on the product label to confirm their license status.

However, if the company name appearing on the product label is not licensed with our Department, and you intend to formulate a fertilizer product derived from recognized plant food source materials such as soybean meal, corn gluten meal and compost, licensing, registration and labeling of the fertilizer will be applicable.

I recommend that you purchase a fertilizer product whose company name is licensed with our Department. Therefore, when you apply the fertilizer to your customers’ yard, you are billing them for the service and not the fertilizer material being applied.

Our registration period ends on June 30 of each year, renewal commencing on July 1. Feel free to visit our website at the following address to obtain additional information.

http://www.flaes.org/complimonitoring/fertilizer.html

If you wish to discuss in detail, feel free to contact my office.

Respectfully,

Bill Cox"



I have included "THE LIST" of almost 500 Fertilizer Licensees. The company that manufactures the SBM, CGM, and compost that I buy are all on the list, and most likely yours will be as well.

So unless you're buying your organics from Pakistan, you probably don't need a license.

[DeepGreenLawn]

well, none of that pertains to me here in GA but... I appreciate you posting your findings. I wish more people would do the same.

[ICT Bill]

Mscottw2
Excellent information, I forget sometimes I am coming at it as a manufacturer not an applicator. Bill Cox is the best, he heads up and has headed up the group of regulators that regulate fertlizers on a state by state basis.

A great suggestion too to charge for the appilcation but not for the materials, that way you can basically apply what you need to (or want to).

[Elden]

I am a licensed applicator in Fl. If you claim that your CGM is a weed and feed you have to be licensed. Straight fertilizer is not considered a pesticide, but once you call it weed control it is. It is not true that if you can buy it on a store shelf you can apply it. I can go to Home depot and buy all the plumbing and electrical supplies I want to use on my personal home. But when you want to charge a person to provide plumbing or electical services you have to be licensed by the state of Fl. The same standard applies to pesticides.

It all comes down to the words "for hire". Fertilizer and amendments are one thing as far as application goes. If you claim anything else it is considered a pesticide

[Go-Green Lawn Care]

Why would you claim CGM as a weed and feed?

[zapmaz]

I meant corn gluten used as a pre emergence, supressor. Sorry

[ICT Bill]

CGM is considered a pesticide by the EPA for weed supression

"Supressor" is walking a fine line, it depends on who you are talking to and what the application is for.

My suggestion is to always go the extra mile and learn the state law and take the test. you will be much better off in the long run

Knowledge is power

As my wise old father use to say....... jeez I don't remember I must be getting wise and old too

[treegal1]

just go get the license, its not that hard, and if you need it then you got it, and the chem guys love to see it, it makes them whine.:cry:

and wow there's even a registered molasses guy in the list that was posted

[DeepGreenLawn]

I got the license's here.

License, $100 after it was all said and done if that much

Inconvenience, you bet you...

Not having to worry about bending rules this way or that for me to stay out of trouble, priceless,

HEHE, had the chance to do that and had to take it, sorry treegal or ICT, whoever keeps doing that.

[treegal1]

its master card, we just stole it

[Mscottw2]

O.K. I just received another response from Bill Cox down at the DOA. Hopefully this will put the last nail in the coffin and clear up all this confusion.

"I have received another inquiry about Corn Gluten Meal. I believe my first response to you needs additional clarification.



Florida’s Commercial Fertilizer Law, Chapter 576.011(12) regulates the labeling and content of “Fertilizer”.



Fertilizer is defined as follows:

(12) "Fertilizer" means any substance which:

(a) Contains one or more recognized plant nutrients and promotes plant growth, or

(b) Controls soil acidity or alkalinity, or

(c) Provides other soil enrichment, or

(d) Provides other corrective measures to the soil.

Florida Commercial Fertilizer Law, Chapter 576 Florida Statutes does not regulate the use or application of fertilizer; it regulates the manufacture and labeling of fertilizer. Therefore, whosever name appears on a fertilizer label as the guarantor is required to obtain a Fertilizer License from our Department.



If you are merely providing a “Lawn Service” to your customer, and not guaranteeing a fertilizer product with your company name appearing on the label as the guarantor, no license is needed to apply fertilizer to customer's lawns.



To be licensed to make lawn care pesticide applications, you need to contact the Bureau of Entomology and Pest Control. The website for the Bureau of Entomology may be viewed at www.flaes.org.



Michael J. Page, Chief

Bureau of Entomology & Pest Control

Florida Department of Agriculture & Consumer Services

Magnolia Center 1, Suite 300

1203 Governors Square Blvd.

Tallahassee, FL 32301-2961

850.921.4177 Ex 115

Cell - 850.528.5316

Fax - 850.410.0724

pagem@doacs.state.fl.us



If I can be of further assistance, let me know. I trust my response will clear the confusion about who needs a Fertilizer License.



Thanks, Bill Cox"

[DeepGreenLawn]

Well, that tells me a few things, of course it all depends on how you look at it and translate it but I say go to the extreme or else someone else will and your going to be the target.

"Fertilizer is defined as follows:
(12) "Fertilizer" means any substance which:
(a) Contains one or more recognized plant nutrients and promotes plant growth, or
(b) Controls soil acidity or alkalinity, or
(c) Provides other soil enrichment, or
(d) Provides other corrective measures to the soil."

CGM is a fertilizer by these standards, it contains recognized plant nutrients, provides other soil enrichment, and provides corrective measures to the soil.


"If you are merely providing a “Lawn Service” to your customer, and not guaranteeing a fertilizer product with your company name appearing on the label as the guarantor, no license is needed to apply fertilizer to customer's lawns"

Are you not garunteeing that you will be creating a healthier greener lawn through fertilizers? And with the CGM are you not garunteeing that it will help control the weeds in the lawn? If your running a business, your going to be garunteeing these things I promise. That's what the customers want, a garuntee, from you, not "well the bag says"

"To be licensed to make lawn care pesticide applications,"

Weeds are considered pests by agriculture standards, CGM controls weeds, therefore it is considered a pesticide.

That there to me says... get the licenses and be done with it.

[ICT Bill]

I know its a little confusing about the guarantee thing. on our product we are stating and guaranteeing what is in the carton. Unless you make a fertilizer you should ignore this as an applicator, meaning, it does not pertain to you as a applicator only if you are a fertilizer manufacturer.

What Bill is saying is that currently there is no applicators license required for anyone, for hire or not, to apply fertilizers or soil amendments. If you applying pesticides then yes you need to be licensed.

Bill knows his stuff

Compost is considered a soil amendment, compost teas are considered a soil amendment. Actually the last 2 meetings of the fertilizer regulators they have tabled the issue of defining what compost tea is

CGM is 10% nitrogen so I would consider it a fertilizer

[Go-Green Lawn Care]

I took it the same way. CGM to me is a fertilizer (9-0-0) because it meets the "definition." and as an applicator, I'm not guaranteeing anything because my company name is not on the label. Therefore I do not need a license to service my customers with an already licensed product.

[ICT Bill]

I took it the same way. CGM to me is a fertilizer (9-0-0) because it meets the "definition." and as an applicator, I'm not guaranteeing anything because my company name is not on the label. Therefore I do not need a license to service my customers with an already licensed product.

BINGO ! That is correct

[treegal1]

yep and there's not a need to say any thing if you provide a service only, no product. we only sell an appearance, the look of the yard, no product and no fert!!!! and we also state that we don't kill any thing, nature does!!!!

but still it is a neat thing to have a lic# on the trucks, and some one once here said that they wanted to get lettering to say " but we really don't use it" we have already got the vinyl cut

[Elden]

If you put down CGM as ICT Bill said it has to have a guaranteed analysis aproved by the state of Florida. That is what Bill Cox from DACS is talking about. When you use a CGM product on a persons lawn, if it says on the label anything about weed control. You have to be licensed. Period. If it does not and you don't tell the customer that it will help with control or get rid of weeds then you are fine applying it as a Fertilizer



20) "Pest" means an arthropod, wood-destroying organism, rodent, or other obnoxious or undesirable living plant or animal organism.

(21) "Pest control" includes:

(a) The use of any method or device or the application of any substance to prevent, destroy, repel, mitigate, curb, control, or eradicate any pest in, on, or under a structure, lawn, or ornamental;

(b) The identification of or inspection for infestations or infections in, on, or under a structure, lawn, or ornamental;

(c) The use of any pesticide, economic poison, or mechanical device for preventing, controlling, eradicating, identifying, inspecting for, mitigating, diminishing, or curtailing insects, vermin, rodents, pest birds, bats, or other pests in, on, or under a structure, lawn, or ornamental;

22) "Pesticide or economic poison" means any substance or mixture of substances intended for:

(a) Preventing, destroying, repelling, or mitigating any insects, rodents, nematodes, fungi, weeds, or other forms of plant or animal life or viruses, except viruses or fungi on or in living human beings or other animals; or

(b) Use as a plant regulator, defoliant, or desiccant.


These are the actual laws regulating Pesticide applications. It is Florida Chapter 482

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0482/titl0482.htm

Here's the link if you want to read the rest.

[Go-Green Lawn Care]

Nice post...This one should get stickied!

[zapmaz]

Yall sure are confussing me with your differing views on the law. Dont know who to beleive. I spoke to the person in charge of training lawn maitenance and commercial pesticide applicators, at the local county extension today
they told me- If label on the fertilizer or product says EPA pesticide, then you need a license to apply it. Sounds simple to me.

[ICT Bill]

I have had to read every state fertilizer and pesticide law, every one is the same but different.

Please be aware of the state (and sometimes local) fertilizer/pesticide law. It is the only way to go

Knowledge begits knowledge, ignorance........ need I say more

[ICT Bill]

Yall sure are confussing me with your differing views on the law. Dont know who to beleive. I spoke to the person in charge of training lawn maitenance and commercial pesticide applicators, at the local county extension today
they told me- If label on the fertilizer or product says EPA pesticide, then you need a license to apply it. Sounds simple to me.

ZAP you are listening to the informed, which is good. Pesticides are pesticides whether they are benign or toxic. good or bad they are categorized as a pesticide

We aren't "differing" we are discussing

[DeepGreenLawn]

Again, I say take the one that is most extreme that way your covered. That's how I look at things myself. But that may just be me.