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View Full Version : Toro ZTR Cutting Issues!!! PICTURES TO PROVE!


DillonsLawnCare
05-27-2008, 08:03 PM
my toro mower is still having cutting problems. the evidence is in the pictures below. it leaves pushed over un-cut grass on the insides of each caster wheel, and when i turn( like hugging the tree) it leaves grass in the middle blade. and it only does this when turning. it leaves the other grass when just going straight. i bought the mower brand new by the way.

this is my yard. Fescue. i cut it down to 3.5" and i was cutting off about 3".

here you go..................and i put some pics of me cutting my grass about a week ago.

DillonsLawnCare
05-27-2008, 08:04 PM
and more......................................

DillonsLawnCare
05-27-2008, 08:05 PM
more.................

tacoma200
05-27-2008, 08:11 PM
Yes you have a problem. I think it will be a simple fix though (unless you have warped the deck or something). Start with the basics, clean the deck, put some new high lifts on, check the spindles for any play, pulleys, belts slippage, and try to eliminate everything you can. A new set of blades would be a good start after you have checked everything out. The air flow doesn't seem to be right (blades, build up, etc.).

Did this problem start all at once or has the cut quality gone down hill slowly?

C.T. Lawn Care
05-27-2008, 08:14 PM
does your mower have the turbo force deck? Maybe you are mowing to fast for the condtions? I have a 60" turbo force deck and if you mow full out in deep grass it will not give the best cut, but it will look better than that. Maybe try a high lift blade? Mine came with standerd blades.

DillonsLawnCare
05-27-2008, 08:16 PM
this problem started the day i got the mower. im taking it to the dealer this thursday so they can fix it. new blades, pulleys and belts are fine, clean deck, nothing wrong that way.

its either vaccuum or something else.

DillonsLawnCare
05-27-2008, 08:17 PM
i dont have the turbo force. i wasnt going fast at all. and the grass wasnt tall either.

SILVERSTREAK INC
05-27-2008, 08:20 PM
looks like your center blade is slipping, make sure your spindle bolts are tight...and of course your blades are tightly bolted to the spindle!

did you hit anything big or bend a blade lately? maybe a keyway that holds the spindle onto the pulley is broken or sheared


does it sound like the blades bog down bad?

lifetree
05-27-2008, 08:22 PM
WOW ... and they say Toro is suppose to be the best ?? Yeah right !! I'll stick with my Dixon, thank you !!

DillonsLawnCare
05-27-2008, 08:24 PM
i didnt hit anything. the blades are brandnew! the spindles look fine. nothing is loose(pulleys, belts,spindles,blades....etc....) everything is intact.

but my engine makes a funky noise. when i have the blades in rotation, the engine kind of like speeds up or something. it doesnt run smoothly. the noise pitch changes, it goes higher.....its hard to explain, but its wierd...

ALC-GregH
05-27-2008, 08:25 PM
I think the problem is in the height your cutting. It's high enough to loose some of the vacuum it needs to pull the grass up and cut it. As recommended before, try some high lift blades if you must cut at that height or try cutting a 1/2" lower just to see what happens with the cut.

DillonsLawnCare
05-27-2008, 08:27 PM
ive cut with it at 3" and 3.25" and it does the same thing. i notice it more when its at 3.25". thats my most favorable cutting height for some reason.

White Gardens
05-27-2008, 08:32 PM
Have the dealer check the pitch of the deck also. I think it's supposed to have a quarter inch drop from front to back. Or is it a quarter inch rise. Crap, I'm having a brain fart. Sometimes when they are put together, that's one of the last things that is checked. It almost looks like the front of the deck is riding higher, thus not cutting your grass correctly.

Anybody else have any input on deck pitch??

DillonsLawnCare
05-27-2008, 08:34 PM
its .25" drop from the back to front. lets say the back is 3.25", then the front is supposed to be 3.00". ill tell them that.

Danielslawnservice
05-27-2008, 08:35 PM
i didnt hit anything. the blades are brandnew! the spindles look fine. nothing is loose(pulleys, belts,spindles,blades....etc....) everything is intact.

but my engine makes a funky noise. when i have the blades in rotation, the engine kind of like speeds up or something. it doesnt run smoothly. the noise pitch changes, it goes higher.....its hard to explain, but its wierd...

does that with any mower it's the blades making the noise (wipping threw the air) i know that it sounds like its coming from behind you but it's underneath


Dan

ALC-GregH
05-27-2008, 08:36 PM
now that you mention it, the deck does look flat without pitch.

SILVERSTREAK INC
05-27-2008, 08:39 PM
like the rpms go up like one blade is spinning...then not spinning..then catching and spinning again, i guess let the dealer handle it

jack it up and have someone try to spin the blade while someone else holds the pulley to the center blade in one spot, see if there is any give (might as well check all 3 blades) sure sounds like one isnt spinning or is being intermittant

could be something as stupid as an improperly routed belt, but besides that, im out of ideas, keep us posted & good luck!!

MJB
05-27-2008, 09:17 PM
While they are checking the pitch make sure they check the blades from 1side of the deck to the other side. Check Tire pressure is 1 side lower than the other? If they are this will also make the cut unlevel going around the tree.

Evans Lawn Service
05-27-2008, 09:20 PM
my walk behind made the same noise sounds like it would be the right rpms on the blades then as soon as i got cutting (about 15 to 20 min. in) it would start.now i will let you know how i found out what was the prob. i was tighting the bolts up by hand and i was really pulling on those wrenches too but it was not enough soon as the pullys and spindles would heat up it would do the same as your toro was doing.i know you checked but try to check your bolts right after you mow (the bolts are hot).if you are not using a impact gun to put your blades on then you really need one never had this prob again.

mhussey
05-27-2008, 09:34 PM
its .25" drop from the back to front. lets say the back is 3.25", then the front is supposed to be 3.00". ill tell them that.

I told you about the pitch problem when you posted the measurements the first time. Going by your measurements your deck is higher in the front than the back. It should be the other way around. That right there will cause a lot if not all the vacuum problems your facing.

mhussey
05-27-2008, 09:36 PM
WOW ... and they say Toro is suppose to be the best ?? Yeah right !! I'll stick with my Dixon, thank you !!


Wanna trade photo's? He doesn't have a Tubo Force deck. However, if you wanna trade we can!

grassman177
05-27-2008, 10:07 PM
i know a guy who has the same mower and it cuts like crap too, i think that deck is crap personally. i tried his mower out and ispected it and cut withit and i could not figure it out either. his is a 48 cut,

DillonsLawnCare
05-28-2008, 12:34 AM
ill make sure and keep you guys posted. they're giving me a loaner, and its a great dane or something...idk...big yellow contraption.....ill get some pics of it too.

thanks for the input.

White Gardens
05-28-2008, 09:11 AM
I told you about the pitch problem when you posted the measurements the first time. Going by your measurements your deck is higher in the front than the back. It should be the other way around. That right there will cause a lot if not all the vacuum problems your facing.

I think your right. It needs to be lower in the front than the back. If it's higher in the front, then the backside of the deck wants to make the clean cut and it can't as is pushes the grass over.

mhussey
05-28-2008, 09:28 AM
I think your right. It needs to be lower in the front than the back. If it's higher in the front, then the backside of the deck wants to make the clean cut and it can't as is pushes the grass over.

Well, if you think about it White Garden it makes sense. You want to cut on the leading edge where the most vacuum is. If you have a positive rake, meaning the front is higher than the rear your losing all your vacuum and nothing is being sucked up. When cutting at such high numbers vacuum is the key. If you don't have vacuum you can't cut.

He posted this issue when he first got this mower. He took measurements and posted them. The rake was off then, and seems like it still is.

Dillion, if you would see your owners manual, you will find the diagram to correctly set your deck up.

I can say from experience that I can't even come close to some sort of debris without my deck sucking it under and shredding it to pieces.

ALC-GregH
05-28-2008, 09:47 AM
My Tiger Cub is the same way, sucks EVERYTHING up. I can ride by a leaf in the grass and it will suck it up within 3-4 inches.

cgaengineer
05-28-2008, 09:54 AM
What kind of blades are on this mower? I ran the Atomics and had a similar problem...especially when turning.

M&M Mowing
05-28-2008, 11:14 AM
Do you do business with brentwood mower shop? I was down south past Nashville and stoped by to check them out, they seem like some first class guys.

doubleedge
05-28-2008, 11:23 AM
WOW ... and they say Toro is suppose to be the best ?? Yeah right !! I'll stick with my Dixon, thank you !!

Not many people say toro is the best:confused:. And he doesn't have toro's best deck either, so its not a fair competition.

bill8379
05-28-2008, 12:50 PM
Is that deck level to the ground? I don't know but the first couple of pics, it looks like the front is higher then the back. Maybe it's an illusion.

lawnboy858
05-28-2008, 04:18 PM
Dillion,

have you tried double cutting?

rthacker
05-28-2008, 05:01 PM
Dillion,

I would definitely check the deck pitch. I have owned both toro and exmark mowers and both leave a nice cut. From the pictures it looks like you have a turbo force deck. I current own a toro Z453 with over 700 hours and have not had any issues. Take it back to your dealer and have him check the pitch. Keep the mower its probably the best out there when set up correctly. Have you tried the mulch kit? That toro will mulch like no other.

Z453
BR600
T230
T242
LE261

Lawnut101
05-28-2008, 05:38 PM
You could take it back and get a Bobcat. I would at least take it back to the dealer and ask be like "What the heck?".

lifetree
05-28-2008, 08:29 PM
my walk behind made the same noise sounds like it would be the right rpms on the blades then as soon as i got cutting (about 15 to 20 min. in) it would start.now i will let you know how i found out what was the prob. i was tighting the bolts up by hand and i was really pulling on those wrenches too but it was not enough soon as the pullys and spindles would heat up it would do the same as your toro was doing.i know you checked but try to check your bolts right after you mow (the bolts are hot).if you are not using a impact gun to put your blades on then you really need one never had this prob again.

Very interesting !!

DillonsLawnCare
05-28-2008, 08:38 PM
ok, first of all, my name is Dillon, not Dillion.

ive been double and triple cutting all my yards, and it clearly takes longer. a $7000 dollar machine shouldnt have to double cut.

i use the standard blades, it is not the turbo force deck. i cant mulch, i cut too much fescue.

lifetree
05-28-2008, 08:39 PM
Wanna trade photo's? He doesn't have a Tubo Force deck. However, if you wanna trade we can!

Do you mean pictures of my equipment ?? If so, here's the link to it, post number 95 ...

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=227424&page=10

Here's the link to a close up of my Dixon, post number 20 ...

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=231356&highlight=lifetree&page=2

lawnboy858
05-28-2008, 09:38 PM
Do you mean pictures of my equipment ?? If so, here's the link to it, post number 95 ...

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=227424&page=10

Here's the link to a close up of my Dixon, post number 20 ...

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=231356&highlight=lifetree&page=2

Did you bag in those pictures? It looks like it, but I'm just guessing. It seems like when ever someone brings up Dixon you throw that same picture up every time. Lets see a different one.

A Toro can leave a finished cut like that without bagging. Hell, here are pictures of my mower and its cut quality. TAKE A LOOK DILLON.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/Soccermaniac124/0517080919.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/Soccermaniac124/IMG_2240.jpg

Dillon,

My bad about misspelling your name bro, honestly I think you need to tell your dealer you want to demo a machine with a turbo force cutting deck and see the difference in the cut quality. I know that if I ever have to double cut a yard, which is rare, the second cut gets rid of all of the excess clippings. I only have to triple cut overgrown yards, like a foot of grass. Your very right, you SHOULD NOT be getting a bad of a cut for a 7000 dollar mower. Have you told your dealer it cuts like crap and you want your money back or a new mower. I think your wasting too much time checking the deck pitch, tire pressures, ect. Grab your dealer by the balls and tell him you want a demo Toro Zmaster with a turbo force deck( free of charge) to cut your lawns and compare the cut quality,not a P.O.S. great dane. What good is that going to do you, besides show you a worse cut. C'mon man be assertive.

Thats like me complaining to my car dealer about my new Lexus I just bought, and he gave me a KIA loaner car to try out.

Matt

Lbilawncare
05-28-2008, 09:56 PM
Dillon, Your dealer needs to help you or you should call Toro. Without seeing the machine in person I would guess that the main deck belt is not tight or the tension pulley is not in the right place. Deck pitch can cause the blade issue, but not that bad. Sounds like you are doing everything else right.

DillonsLawnCare
05-28-2008, 10:54 PM
Dillon,

My bad about misspelling your name bro, honestly I think you need to tell your dealer you want to demo a machine with a turbo force cutting deck and see the difference in the cut quality. I know that if I ever have to double cut a yard, which is rare, the second cut gets rid of all of the excess clippings. I only have to triple cut overgrown yards, like a foot of grass. Your very right, you SHOULD NOT be getting a bad of a cut for a 7000 dollar mower. Have you told your dealer it cuts like crap and you want your money back or a new mower. I think your wasting too much time checking the deck pitch, tire pressures, ect. Grab your dealer by the balls and tell him you want a demo Toro Zmaster with a turbo force deck( free of charge) to cut your lawns and compare the cut quality,not a P.O.S. great dane. What good is that going to do you, besides show you a worse cut. C'mon man be assertive.

Thats like me complaining to my car dealer about my new Lexus I just bought, and he gave me a KIA loaner car to try out.

Matt


ok, they told me that they dont carry TURBO FORCE decks, cause they can move more of the 7 gauge, and they think it is just as good as the turbo force. which its not.

we have been down to the dealer and asked for a full refund and they said that they couldn't give us a refund. the best that they could do is to take $1500 off the price and then refund us the rest. this is what the toro rep. for the southeast region said. we said @#$# NO!!! my mom was pissed. we are being extremely assertive, but these assholes are hard to work with. i mean seriously, its a crappy mower, give us are money back. im sure that if they bought something that wasnt operating right for $7000, that they'd sure as hell take it back. its unbelievable.......:hammerhead:

we had called toro and set up a complaint and all that jazz, and toro said that we had to take it down to the dealer in order to be able to do anything. they couldn't give us phone numbers to anyone unless we had the mower at an authorized toro dealer. so we took it down there and thats what they told us(above). so basically toro is pushing us around.

the dealer argued with us that we haven't given them any time to work on it, which is bullshit, cause we took the mower two previous times before this one. and they worked on it, stumped, and adjusted some pulleys and checked the belts and what not, and it still cut like crap. so im taking it back down tomorrow and ask for them to fix it, cause they won't do anything else, and have to get a loaner.

so, if the mower is not fixed after this time, my mom is filing a lawsuit on toro, and were sueing them!!!

but between the sueing, i wont have a mower to cut with, cause ill be stuck with this one.:dizzy:



thanks for all the help so far.....

Matts lawn care
05-28-2008, 10:55 PM
My turboforce 60" cuts like a carpet. I only double cut 2 lawns to disburse clippings not to get a batter cut. I Also tried double blades the last 3 weeks and went back to single blades this week and I see a big difference. The clippings are way smaller and it leaves an even better cut. I used hi lifts on bottom and gators on top.
I agree with Matt tell your dealer you want to cut with a turboforce and compare. It sounds like something is way wrong with your mower. Good luck.

DillonsLawnCare
05-28-2008, 11:25 PM
thanks...............

lawnboy858
05-28-2008, 11:32 PM
ok, they told me that they dont carry TURBO FORCE decks, cause they can move more of the 7 gauge, and they think it is just as good as the turbo force. which its not.

we have been down to the dealer and asked for a full refund and they said that they couldn't give us a refund. the best that they could do is to take $1500 off the price and then refund us the rest. this is what the toro rep. for the southeast region said. we said @#$# NO!!! my mom was pissed. we are being extremely assertive, but these assholes are hard to work with. i mean seriously, its a crappy mower, give us are money back. im sure that if they bought something that wasnt operating right for $7000, that they'd sure as hell take it back. its unbelievable.......:hammerhead:

we had called toro and set up a complaint and all that jazz, and toro said that we had to take it down to the dealer in order to be able to do anything. they couldn't give us phone numbers to anyone unless we had the mower at an authorized toro dealer. so we took it down there and thats what they told us(above). so basically toro is pushing us around.

the dealer argued with us that we haven't given them any time to work on it, which is bullshit, cause we took the mower two previous times before this one. and they worked on it, stumped, and adjusted some pulleys and checked the belts and what not, and it still cut like crap. so im taking it back down tomorrow and ask for them to fix it, cause they won't do anything else, and have to get a loaner.

so, if the mower is not fixed after this time, my mom is filing a lawsuit on toro, and were sueing them!!!

but between the sueing, i wont have a mower to cut with, cause ill be stuck with this one.:dizzy:



thanks for all the help so far.....

Sometimes i wish there were a Toro Rep on this site.

HOOLIE
05-28-2008, 11:34 PM
I really can't tell much from the photos but I'll take your word for it. Take it back and have the dealer check it out.

I've been mowing since 1989 and have used a lot of new machines over the years, and quite often they are not assembled completely...you'll have loose hardware, really slack belt tension, etc. In fact I would say well over half the new mowers I've used have had problems initially. Could well be something simple and an easy fix.

Roger
05-29-2008, 06:56 AM
Lawsuit? For what? With thousands and thousands of these products on the market, and have been for years, what would form the basis of complaint? What is unique about this particular s/n machine that would be the legal complaint? The success record is too long to believe any attorney would even consider such a case.

I understand you are not happy with the new mower. But, to travel the litigious path in order to get the problem resolved sounds like an bad journey.

mhussey
05-29-2008, 07:04 AM
Do you mean pictures of my equipment ?? If so, here's the link to it, post number 95 ...

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=227424&page=10

Here's the link to a close up of my Dixon, post number 20 ...

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=231356&highlight=lifetree&page=2


Ummm... no.. I was refering to your comment you made about the Toro's cut. I can care less about your fleet. I like seeing what everyone else runs, but I'm refering to the cut quality. Also, I have heard no one say that Toro's are the best, but I have heard absolutely no one complain about the Turbo Force cut. This non-Turbo Force thought I just don't know about.

Dillon doesn't have Toro's best deck on that machine. Heck, I didn't even know the installed that deck on Z-Masters.

mhussey
05-29-2008, 07:12 AM
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=230032&page=4

Ok one last time. Check out post #36. If your measurements are correct, your pitch is off. This is the last time I will say this. If your deck isn't pitched correctly you will lose your vacuum, if not all. I don't know why you will not acknowledge this issue every time I bring it up. However, you just keep on wanting to b***h about wanting your money back.

If this dealer doesn't work for you go to someone else. If that don't work, go higher over the regional managers head. I'm just having a hard time believing this whole matter.

PerfectEarth
05-29-2008, 07:24 AM
A lawsuit??? Hahaha, typical "American" response to a problem. I can just imagine your mom throwing a hissy fit it the dealership, causing a scene- over mower. yes, it's an expensive piece of equipment but c'mon... you better get used to equipment issues if you're gonna be in this business. Are you gonna sue someone everytime something doesn't quite work out well?? Just saying- there's two sides to every story.

ProStreetCamaro
05-29-2008, 07:30 AM
A lawsuit??? Hahaha, typical "American" response to a problem. I can just imagine your mom throwing a hissy fit it the dealership, causing a scene- over mower. yes, it's an expensive piece of equipment but c'mon... you better get used to equipment issues if you're gonna be in this business. Are you gonna sue someone everytime something doesn't quite work out well?? Just saying- there's two sides to every story.



I have to admit if my machine cut as bad as his is and the dealer couldnt get it right I would sue also. We dont buy these high dollar machines to leave a terrible cut and force you to double cut in order for the machine to cut all the grass. Thats not excuseable in my oppinion.

Ford850
05-29-2008, 07:47 AM
Dillon,
As Mhussey has pointed out several times, your pitch is off according to your own measurements. Get the deck adjusted the way the manufacturer suggests, slap on some high lift blades, and go mow the fescue. No mower or blades will work perfect on all grasses. You're going to have to make some adjsutments to find the best combination for your jobs.

MarcSmith
05-29-2008, 07:56 AM
maybe I missed it, but HE was taking a 6.5" yard and cutting it down to 3.5" knocking 3" of grass off he top....sorry but not many mowers will cut that good given those conditions.

My exmark, scag, and gravely will occasionally leave a strip of turf when you turn sharp. Thats common. when you turn under certain condition you loose the blade overlap.

on a thick lawn when your wheels roll over it you may not be able to generate enough lift when its been laid over to suck it back up straight.

Has the toro rep come out and looked at the the grass while you are cutting?

Time to go above the dealers head.

Also did you DEMO this mower before you bought it?

Have you cut a lawn thats normal and not overgrown IE taking the proper 1/3 off the top of the grass and see how its cuts?

Sound like you have a bum dealer.

robomower58
05-29-2008, 08:05 AM
Have you been back to the dealer yet again. I am interested to find out if you have been back and have solved the problem. I am looking at that very mower you have I live up in Lynchburg Va and have a lot of fescue to cut. I was actually looking at your dealer as well. Now I may be looking at a Scag tiger cub, more money I guess.

MarcSmith
05-29-2008, 08:48 AM
Have you been back to the dealer yet again. I am interested to find out if you have been back and have solved the problem. I am looking at that very mower you have I live up in Lynchburg Va and have a lot of fescue to cut. I was actually looking at your dealer as well. Now I may be looking at a Scag tiger cub, more money I guess. I have a tiger cub 61"and a wildcat 52"...you wont go wrong.

Key to any machine, if you don't know it. get a demo....try one out...By and large though they all cut good.

puppypaws
05-29-2008, 09:47 AM
A lawsuit??? Hahaha, typical "American" response to a problem. I can just imagine your mom throwing a hissy fit it the dealership, causing a scene- over mower. yes, it's an expensive piece of equipment but c'mon... you better get used to equipment issues if you're gonna be in this business. Are you gonna sue someone everytime something doesn't quite work out well?? Just saying- there's two sides to every story.

They are mad the same as you and I would be, that is the first typical response from an American is to talk about a lawsuit, like that will scare a large corporation with a staff of attorneys ready for your best to come at them.

I can see the cut with that mower is totally ridiculous. Now, the problem comes in as to what kind of company is Toro to stand behind it's product.
I would personally give them a set time to make sure this new mower cuts to my satisfaction. I would make Toro and the dealer aware (I hope this is available to Dillon) a TV station in the area would be coming to see the problem I am having with the mower, Toro and the dealer.

TV stations in the Charlotte, NC area have investigative reporters that have special segments on the news, especially for this type thing. These large companies are not afraid of lawsuits but bad publicity scares them to death.

Say, I was Toro and I thought you were going to bring my companies reputation into the limelight through a news media, (TV) this could cost me money in future sales. I am already spending a tremendous amount of money on advertising so the best thing for me to do if I am Toro is to stop the bleeding. I would be doing everything possible to satisfy you and make absolutely sure you have no problems with my product.

This is nothing more than common business sense, something that seems to have been lost by customer service in this country.

Dillon, make sure to come back and bring us up to date on your situation. I hear you talking about your mom and have no idea if you have a father, but I certainly would love to be your dad during this ordeal.

All_Toro_4ME
05-29-2008, 10:28 AM
^^^^ Well said Puppypaws.

robomower58
05-29-2008, 11:10 AM
I was about to purchase the exact same mower model as Dillon, and was just checking on the actual cut when I found this post. Unless this gets cleared up I will most likely purchase as Scag tiger cub, Toro just likely lost a sale.

puppypaws
05-29-2008, 11:39 AM
I was about to purchase the exact same mower model as Dillon, and was just checking on the actual cut when I found this post. Unless this gets cleared up I will most likely purchase as Scag tiger cub, Toro just likely lost a sale.

As I can see it did not take very long for bad publicity to start taking a toll. Some of these companies are not highly intelligent in customer relations. People in this country don't seem to understand their paychecks come from satisfied customers willing to purchase their companies product. This is extremely stupid to me, your customers should be put on a pedestal and treated with the utmost respect and dignity.

MarcSmith
05-29-2008, 12:08 PM
your customers should be put on a pedestal and treated with the utmost respect and dignity.to a point you are correct. Once a customer starts acting like an a$$ or having unrealistic expectations (like in the case of cutting grass over 6" tall down to 3.5" and expecting a perfect cut), then I have every right to not put the customer on a pedestal. That customer becomes a PITA.

However....as I mention earlier, Dillon was cutting grass that was over 6" tall down to 3.5" and expecting a perfect cut....Sorry, no mower can do do that it one pass . So are his expectations within the real of reality?...In this instance, NO....no if he was cutting 4.5" down to 3 and was still having problems after checking everything out then I'd start with the dealer and give the dealer a chance to make right., if the dealer refuses to make right or fails in his attempts, then climb up the ladder to the regional sales guy, and so on.

Usually it end beig something real simple. As this is the first instance of bad cut for a toro that I've heard of.

I know this is like the Tech support guy on the phone asking to make sure your computer is plugged in? have you made sure you have the proper blades on the machine. I know that the blades for a 48", 52, 61 are all very close in size and its not unheard of to get a blade or two mixed up in the shop and have the the guys bolt up the wrong blade.

I am not deffending the dealer per say.

FWIW...when you drop the term lawsuit, it usually doesn't make people help you anymore, at that point in time, i would clam up and wait for the paperwork to come in the mail and then we can go from there. A lawsuit, as use mentions, just adds time and paperwork to the problem, and the only people who win in a lawsuit are the lawyers.

I would go over to the exmark forum and Pm the exmark guy off line and maybe he can help you get in touch the the regional toro guy. Exmark and toro are now the same company, more or less...

This is one instance where Dillon really needs to get the dealer or a toro rep on site and show them the poor quality of cut on a normal maintenance lawn, and not a "bush hog" situation

Also, I looked at the pics a bit closer, and it almost looks like its cutting with one blade upside down.

One of my mechanics did the same thing(duh), only it was an outside edge blade that was upside, but the quality of cut looked real similar.

hurley'sland22
05-29-2008, 12:31 PM
how many yards do you mow a week with that?

Green Pastures
05-29-2008, 12:52 PM
Will the person who started this thread answer a question for me?


In your Original Post did you mean that you were cutting three INCHES off the grass in one pass? The pictures don't show that....

Cuz if you did and you were cutting six and one half inch tall grass down to three and one half inches in ONE PASS, you have no right to expect any better results than you got there.

Also from the pics.... you're cutting wet grass, which wont give the best cut.

Looks to me like you're deck pitch is off AND I would check to be sure all three blades are on correctly and that one or more are not up-side-down.

Good luck.

Tvov
05-29-2008, 01:15 PM
You say you have "new" blades, but are they sharp? I don't know if it is an insurance thing, but a lot of blades that I buy these days are basically dull.

As was posted previously, did you check that all the blades are the same length?

puppypaws
05-29-2008, 01:33 PM
to a point you are correct. Once a customer starts acting like an a$$ or having unrealistic expectations (like in the case of cutting grass over 6" tall down to 3.5" and expecting a perfect cut), then I have every right to not put the customer on a pedestal. That customer becomes a PITA.

However....as I mention earlier, Dillon was cutting grass that was over 6" tall down to 3.5" and expecting a perfect cut....Sorry, no mower can do do that it one pass . So are his expectations within the real of reality?...In this instance, NO....no if he was cutting 4.5" down to 3 and was still having problems after checking everything out then I'd start with the dealer and give the dealer a chance to make right., if the dealer refuses to make right or fails in his attempts, then climb up the ladder to the regional sales guy, and so on.

Usually it end beig something real simple. As this is the first instance of bad cut for a toro that I've heard of.

I know this is like the Tech support guy on the phone asking to make sure your computer is plugged in? have you made sure you have the proper blades on the machine. I know that the blades for a 48", 52, 61 are all very close in size and its not unheard of to get a blade or two mixed up in the shop and have the the guys bolt up the wrong blade.

I am not deffending the dealer per say.

FWIW...when you drop the term lawsuit, it usually doesn't make people help you anymore, at that point in time, i would clam up and wait for the paperwork to come in the mail and then we can go from there. A lawsuit, as use mentions, just adds time and paperwork to the problem, and the only people who win in a lawsuit are the lawyers.

I would go over to the exmark forum and Pm the exmark guy off line and maybe he can help you get in touch the the regional toro guy. Exmark and toro are now the same company, more or less...

This is one instance where Dillon really needs to get the dealer or a toro rep on site and show them the poor quality of cut on a normal maintenance lawn, and not a "bush hog" situation

Also, I looked at the pics a bit closer, and it almost looks like its cutting with one blade upside down.

One of my mechanics did the same thing(duh), only it was an outside edge blade that was upside, but the quality of cut looked real similar.

Now, wait a minute what would make you think that mower should leave a cut like that period, unless there is something wrong with the machine?

Your Quote:

Dillon was cutting grass that was over 6" tall down to 3.5" and expecting a perfect cut....Sorry, no mower can do do that it one pass .

If my mower would not cut 6" grass to 3 1/2" and do a better job than that I would not have it either. These pictures are of my mower cutting 8" grass down to 3" in one pass, so explain to me why you just said "no mower can do that in one pass" when you see it directly before your eyes. What kind of commercial mower could a person have that would not cut the grass Dillon is cutting in one pass?

Some of this grass is taller than 8", this is cut in one pass moving the grass in one direction which means you are cutting back over the grass you blew out in the last pass. I guess this blew your theory of "no mower can do that in one pass" out of the water, any commercial mower worth owning can do this.

I went back and looked at his pictures and that grass does not compare with the grass you see cut perfectly in one pass below. That cut being performed by his mower is pitiful and no one reading this forum would own a piece of junk that cut like that. Toro and his dealer need to get their heads out of their butt and see what his problem is, or give him a new mower.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106510&stc=1&d=1208631822

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106512&stc=1&d=1208632036

petekief
05-29-2008, 03:31 PM
it really looks to me like one of his blades isn't turning like it should - spindle? belt? pully?

MarcSmith
05-29-2008, 03:39 PM
PP

when you cut grass, no more then 1/3 of the total length should be cut off at any one time...yes I know in real word we are 7 day cut schedules, even though its not a sound horticultural practice. I do it to.

In one pass, if you a cutting through grass greater than 6" tall, i would not expect a perfect cut. Is not that a machine can't do it, I can cut 7" grass with my 21" honda if I wanted or or my neighbors 34" mtd... but the cut won't be perfect, nor would I expect it to be.

If you an dillon expect a perfect cut going through 6-8" grass, then you've been out in the sun too long. (j/k)

I look at dillon pic, and i see a kid with the sticks jammed forward, and his hair blowing the breeze. is he going to fast for the cut....

yes i agree it's a bad cut, And so far dillon is still mum on what he has tried, what he has checked. Yes the dealer is handling this poorly, from our point of view...but the dealer is not here to defend himself or give us his side of the story....

So am I cutting the dealer a bit of slack? yeah a bit...

Could dillon have gone into the dealer with mommy in tow and gone into full tantrum mode with the dealer...yup, at which point if I was the dealer i would have kicked him out of my shop and ignored his whines as well.

Thats why I suggest finding the toro rep and talking with them. pull the dealer out of the equation.

I'll bet we find out its something real simple in the end.

As I said earlier Ive never seen toro give a real bad cut like so it isn't the norm.

now that he's dropped the Sue word. I'll bet they clam up and wait. In the mean time, if he continues to use the mower, and put hours on the machine, then he'll have no chance of getting any refund...or he'' get a refund less the hours he' put on the machine....

Yes it sucks when the dealer won't help you, yes it sucks that the reps are giving you the run around.

But again, we are only getting half of the story....

puppypaws
05-29-2008, 05:09 PM
PP

If you an dillon expect a perfect cut going through 6-8" grass, then you've been out in the sun too long. (j/k)



What is your definition of a perfect cut? Mine would be "any grass where every blade is cut and none is left standing".

Now, do you believe what your eyes see in those pictures of grass cut for the first time this year, with not one blade left uncut? Would you consider that a perfect cut for those conditions?

I am not trying to be disrespectful, but you do need to let us know if you are blind and not able to see those pictures or if it possible your eyes are not sending the correct message to your brain of what you are seeing.

You will find this hard to comprehend also, after the first cut you see in the pictures, every time this same grass was cut after that the mower was cutting it at 15 mph. You just think Dillon's hair is blowing with him running 10 mph, have you ever seen any grass cut at 15 mph?

A mower such as Dillon's will not leave a cut that pitiful, unless something is wrong with the machine. The grass seems to be cut fine except for the two strips it is leaving.

Dillon, how is the cut in the remaining area between the two strips left uncut?

MileHigh
05-29-2008, 05:42 PM
WOW ... and they say Toro is suppose to be the best ?? Yeah right !! I'll stick with my Dixon, thank you !!

You and only You.

There is no comparison between commercial Toro and DickSin.

Toro all the way..all day.

Tvov
05-29-2008, 05:49 PM
I am also wondering how long he has been using that Toro? Was that the first time he has mowed with it? ALL of my mowers have their own best "speed" for cutting, and their own quirks and differences. It sometimes takes a while to learn how they cut best.

Hopefully all will work out. But to "sue" because you don't like the cut of a mower?? I really don't know how far that would get in court. I'm sure the lawyers could make the case last a while, though!

puppypaws
05-29-2008, 06:46 PM
I am also wondering how long he has been using that Toro? Was that the first time he has mowed with it? ALL of my mowers have their own best "speed" for cutting, and their own quirks and differences. It sometimes takes a while to learn how they cut best.

Hopefully all will work out. But to "sue" because you don't like the cut of a mower?? I really don't know how far that would get in court. I'm sure the lawyers could make the case last a while, though!

I've had 4 new Hustler Super Z's in the last 6 yrs. and none of them have ever had an adjustment made, or have they failed to give an excellent cut at any speed up to 15 mph. I have no idea of what kind of mowers you own or run but I will say if they do not give as good a cut as they are capable of at any speed when they are delivered there is a problem. You either bought a mower the company did not know how to set up and your dealer failed to check behind the factory when it was suppose to be inspected by a check list, or the mower is not up to the standard a commercial mower should be.

When you buy a new mower you should not need be concerned if it will give a good cut or not. You may need to make a slight adjustment (which I never have) for your specific conditions, but you definitely should not need to remodel the mower or worry about the exact speed you need to run for a perfect cut. The mower should cut as perfectly as it is capable of at any speed the conditions allow you to run.

gmgg
05-29-2008, 07:30 PM
Sorry about the mower issues. I hate to sound like your mother, but you should probably start wearing eye and ear protection (not to mention socks and something other than sneakers). As someone who mows in the warm months and makes snow (even louder than mowing) in the cold, I can't stress how important hearing protection is if you want to be able to hear when you're older.
:)

freshprince94
05-29-2008, 08:09 PM
You and only You.

There is no comparison between commercial Toro and DickSin.

Toro all the way..all day.

Oh no you didn't! Jk, but this thread is gonna get ugly.

MJB
05-29-2008, 08:56 PM
Really Dillons cut is not that different than my Hustler on the 1st pass in thick grass. I wish I had my camera today. This is normal if your cutting tall grass at a high setting. But I'm sure somethings wrong with his Toro. I wish I could take Puppypaws mower up north and show him how crappy a cut it would have cutting like I was today at 4 inches. The grass was to thick to cut to mulch lower but I've had many Hustler mowers side discharge on this lawn and it leaves strips and swirls on the 1st pass. 2nd pass cleans it up. Hustler works great down south in that stiff grass cutting short but if we cut that short up here on a fertilized lawn we have some messes to clean up. Not to many places where we can blow all the clipping to 1 side off the grass, that would make things easyier for sure.

puppypaws
05-29-2008, 09:55 PM
Really Dillons cut is not that different than my Hustler on the 1st pass in thick grass. I wish I had my camera today. This is normal if your cutting tall grass at a high setting. But I'm sure somethings wrong with his Toro. I wish I could take Puppypaws mower up north and show him how crappy a cut it would have cutting like I was today at 4 inches. The grass was to thick to cut to mulch lower but I've had many Hustler mowers side discharge on this lawn and it leaves strips and swirls on the 1st pass. 2nd pass cleans it up. Hustler works great down south in that stiff grass cutting short but if we cut that short up here on a fertilized lawn we have some messes to clean up. Not to many places where we can blow all the clipping to 1 side off the grass, that would make things easyier for sure.

You don't have to take my mower up north for me to understand it will give a very poor cut at heights of 3.5" and above on thick plush grass such as you cut. I would honestly hate to deal with your type cutting, I see it as being a pain in the A**.

I feel fortunate to live in this part of the country, 3 hrs. from the ocean, (no hurricanes) 2.5 hrs. from the mountains and snow skiing with this area being flatter clay land with stiffer dry bladed grass you can cut perfectly at 15 mph. This is one of the reasons so many Super Z's are sold in this area. The grass that people keep plush with irrigation still dry's out faster and cuts easier than what you deal with. I would say this is probably the most ideal place in the US to live. Charlotte, NC was just listed as the number one city in the US people wanted to live and were moving to in droves.

We have a very mild winter (play golf year round) daytime highs hardly ever get below the mid 40's and the hottest part of summer averages in the upper 80's. South Carolina and Georgia are also excellent states but the lower part of Georgia and the entire state of Florida is much to hot and humid. Virginia is nice but gets a little colder, and once you are above Virginia the winters become more severe.

No, I am glad to be in this area, I just got off the mower at dark, and it was actually getting a little cool in the tee shirt I was wearing. The wind chill makes a considerable difference when mowing at 15 mph but it also keeps you cooler when it is hot.

lifetree
05-29-2008, 10:03 PM
Oh no you didn't! Jk, but this thread is gonna get ugly.

It won't get ugly because of me ... comments like that aren't even worth responding to, so I don't !!

DillonsLawnCare
05-29-2008, 10:12 PM
Ok, first of all, i have a father. he lives in knoxville while i live in nashville. he's the one who gave me the idea to get me started mowing lawns. he's taught me everything there is to know about being an entrepreneur.

second of all, i don't mow at top speed like an idiot. so lose the stereotypes.

third, i took the mower down to the dealer, they gave me a loaner, and i told them to check all the crap etc....

The pics of me mowing were from a week earlier as mentioned in the first post of the thread. if you would have read it, then you would have known that i was not cutting wet grass!

mhussey, I've acknowledged your thoughts on the deck pitch. i'm aware that it is off. i told the dealer.

i currently cut 14 yards.

A BRAND-NEW mower should leave a nice finished cut. sueing is logical.

For all of you who tell me to talk to the toro rep, it isnt happening. we've tried talking to them, but they are all jerks. everyone in the toro's customer service are snobs.

i got a Great Dane Chariot 52" 23hp Kohler(that backfires everytime i shut it off, even after cooling the engine down) Loaner,

and i bought a new redmaxEBZ7100 today. $502.55 out the door

thanks for all replys

MJB
05-29-2008, 10:15 PM
You don't have to take my mower up north for me to understand it will give a very poor cut at heights of 3.5" and above on thick plush grass such as you cut. I would honestly hate to deal with your type cutting, I see it as being a pain in the A**.

I feel fortunate to live in this part of the country, 3 hrs. from the ocean, (no hurricanes) 2.5 hrs. from the mountains and snow skiing with this area being flatter clay land with stiffer dry bladed grass you can cut perfectly at 15 mph. This is one of the reasons so many Super Z's are sold in this area. The grass that people keep plush with irrigation still dry's out faster and cuts easier than what you deal with. I would say this is probably the most ideal place in the US to live. Charlotte, NC was just listed as the number one city in the US people wanted to live and were moving to in droves.

We have a very mild winter (play golf year round) daytime highs hardly ever get below the mid 40's and the hottest part of summer averages in the upper 80's. South Carolina and Georgia are also excellent states but the lower part of Georgia and the entire state of Florida is much to hot and humid. Virginia is nice but gets a little colder, and once you are above Virginia the winters become more severe.

No, I am glad to be in this area, I just got off the mower at dark, and it was actually getting a little cool in the tee shirt I was wearing. The wind chill makes a considerable difference when mowing at 15 mph but it also keeps you cooler when it is hot.

Have you tried cutting that at a higher setting to see how it does out there?

MJB
05-29-2008, 10:20 PM
Ok, first of all, i have a father. he lives in knoxville while i live in nashville. he's the one who gave me the idea to get me started mowing lawns. he's taught me everything there is to know about being an entrepreneur.

second of all, i don't mow at top speed like an idiot. so lose the stereotypes.

third, i took the mower down to the dealer, they gave me a loaner, and i told them to check all the crap etc....

The pics of me mowing were from a week earlier as mentioned in the first post of the thread. if you would have read it, then you would have known that i was not cutting wet grass!

mhussey, I've acknowledged your thoughts on the deck pitch. i'm aware that it is off. i told the dealer.

i currently cut 14 yards.

A BRAND-NEW mower should leave a nice finished cut. sueing is logical.

For all of you who tell me to talk to the toro rep, it isnt happening. we've tried talking to them, but they are all jerks. everyone in the toro's customer service are snobs.

i got a Great Dane Chariot 52" 23hp Kohler(that backfires everytime i shut it off, even after cooling the engine down) Loaner,

and i bought a new redmaxEBZ7100 today. $502.55 out the door

thanks for all replys

I only bought 1 Commercial Toro and it was so bad I'll never buy anything Toro again because I hit the same brick wall you have and lost a lot of money. Hopefully they will be able to fix those things mentioned and possibly make it work for a few yrs then TRADE it in on anything but Toro!

ALC-GregH
05-29-2008, 10:26 PM
Should of bought a Scag..... :) j/k

I hope they get you straightened out.

DillonsLawnCare
05-29-2008, 10:43 PM
Should of bought a Scag..... :) j/k

I hope they get you straightened out.


no, i should have boughten a scag!!! the velocity deck is everything i need. owell. :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

Firefighter337
05-29-2008, 10:55 PM
I did not read the entire thread. Forgive me this has been touch on.

Are your tire pressures equal? Is one 30 psi and the other 10 psi?

Is a shaft broken or a bolt loose?

Toro has been top notch from my experience, not saying there are a few bad apples in the bunch.

Good luck.

whoopassonthebluegrass
05-29-2008, 10:55 PM
My Toro (it's a Walkbehind) is no gem. I've had to modify and modify and weld and weld and replace and repair like crazy... I have the TurboForce, and can't say I'm particularly impressed with cut quality. Durability on the deck is better than the old SFS, but my Lesco gave a far better quality of cut than either of my Toro decks...

MO LAWNCARE
05-29-2008, 10:57 PM
Your Problem Is Deck Pitch. I Have A 60 Turbo Force And It Wasnt Set Up Correctly. Had Same Problem. Took Back To Dealer And Had The Set Correctly. 15lbs Of Air Pressure Front And Rear Tires And Have Them Set Height Of Deck To The Measurements On Side Mine Where 1 Inch Higher. Make Sure Belt Is Tight. High Lift Blades Leave Best Looking Cut But Rob Power In Tall Grass. Go With Toros Recycling Blades. In Spring And Fall Use Atomic Blades. These Blades Are Only Good For When New And When Sharpend Once. After That Throw Them Away And Get New Ones. If You Match Them Up With There Other Blades There Shorter. Thats Why When U You Sharpen They Get Even Shorter. Have Them Bump The Rpms Up On Mower Too.

DillonsLawnCare
05-29-2008, 10:58 PM
the tire pressure is level. nothing is loose.

the old sfs was a decent deck. i had one on my walkbehind.

ALC-GregH
05-29-2008, 11:01 PM
You don't have to use a capital letter on each and every word.

MO LAWNCARE
05-29-2008, 11:01 PM
All Of You Guys That Dont Cut At Full Speed Should Buy A Craftsman. I Can Cut 6 Inches Wet Grass Down To 3 Inches Full Speed And Not Look Back. And Double Cutting Is Not A Option Thats 2 Times As Long To Cut A Yard And Not Get Paid. Turbo Force With Atomic Blades Leave Dust Come Out The Shoot Even When Wet.

ojpent
05-29-2008, 11:05 PM
Dillon, Just wondering have tried to go to a different dealer and let them look at the machine?????? Or are you stiking with the same dealer!!!!!!!!! And before you think about sueing TORO take a step back and think of the cost of lawyer fees and etc. to go after TORO... Don't take this to personally but to be in this business or any other business where machines are involved there is going to be problems, so get a little thicker skin when it comes to business and hopefully you can get the machine running right... AND I REPEAT TRY ANOTHER DEALER, THEY JUST MIGHT FIND OUT "WHATS WRONG"....

Goodluck,
Ojp

ojpent
05-29-2008, 11:07 PM
sorry for the bad spelling forgot to hit spell check..

MO LAWNCARE
05-29-2008, 11:11 PM
what tire pressure are you running?

DillonsLawnCare
05-29-2008, 11:17 PM
ok, well the other dealers were all backed up like 7-10, and my dealer could give me a loaner, that the other ones couldnt. my grandfather is a lawyer and my mother is one too. attorneys fees is non-existable. maybe some court costs here and there.


i run it like the manual said. 13psi in all the tires.

ojpent
05-29-2008, 11:23 PM
If the dealers say they are 7-10 out, that sounds kinda strange, because from my experiance if you mow commercially "for a living" most dealers bump home owners back to get the pro's in.. It might be worth your while to wait for another dealer, or just go to 1 of the other dealers and explain whats going on and they might see you sooner, jus to make you happy and stay with them for all of your future needs... Its worth a try..

MO LAWNCARE
05-29-2008, 11:24 PM
15lbs seems like a little more speed. also put the discharge chute when cutting seems like on mine cuts better up. the deck needs 1/4 inch lower in front and even left to right. like i said mine was off. the mechanic that set it up didnt even no there was supposed to be pitch. when i took it back a new guy set it up and it cuts perfect now. i bet that your
mower set up like that would leave dandilions uncut everywhere.

puppypaws
05-30-2008, 12:10 AM
Have you tried cutting that at a higher setting to see how it does out there?

Yes, as I have said before the higher you go the worse the cut becomes. I have made mention if I had to cut plush fescue at 3.5" or above I would have to slow down probably to 10 mph and it still would not be a perfect cut. My finding is in my situation 2.75" will get the job done very well at high speed. a I personally cannot stand to slow down.

It is very simple with the XR-7 deck, the higher you raise it the less suction you have to stand the grass up, so it can be cut equally. There is basically a a feature in the use of every deck that want suit some people. What I do with my mower I could not ask for it to be any more perfect.

I know I would like the cut of a Scag, but could not stand the slower speed and ride, the same with an Exmark. I Like the speed of a Dixie Chopper but do not believe I could utilize it as often because of the rougher ride. I thought the Bad Boy Lightening did a pretty good job, it did not cut as smooth, ride quiet as good (but close) and did not handle and operate as well, the speed was good but not quiet as fast. The one stand out point was the 32 Vanguard it never let anything the mower was cutting effect the power.

FNG
05-30-2008, 12:36 AM
Dillon, listen very carefully...Call Toro and ask them is they are going to make you file a claim under the Magnison Moss warranty act.

THAT, will get their attention...trust me on this...any manufacturer will know what you mean.

In the mean time you need to Look up the act ...Google it and print it off.

Take that print out to the dealer and show it to them.

Randell


we have been down to the dealer and asked for a full refund and they said that they couldn't give us a refund. the best that they could do is to take $1500 off the price and then refund us the rest. this is what the toro rep. for the southeast region said. we said @#$# NO!!! my mom was pissed. we are being extremely assertive, but these assholes are hard to work with. i mean seriously, its a crappy mower, give us are money back. im sure that if they bought something that wasnt operating right for $7000, that they'd sure as hell take it back. its unbelievable.......:hammerhead:

we had called toro and set up a complaint and all that jazz, and toro said that we had to take it down to the dealer in order to be able to do anything. they couldn't give us phone numbers to anyone unless we had the mower at an authorized toro dealer. so we took it down there and thats what they told us(above). so basically toro is pushing us around.

the dealer argued with us that we haven't given them any time to work on it, which is bullshit, cause we took the mower two previous times before this one. and they worked on it, stumped, and adjusted some pulleys and checked the belts and what not, and it still cut like crap. so im taking it back down tomorrow and ask for them to fix it, cause they won't do anything else, and have to get a loaner.

so, if the mower is not fixed after this time, my mom is filing a lawsuit on toro, and were sueing them!!!

but between the sueing, i wont have a mower to cut with, cause ill be stuck with this one.:dizzy:



thanks for all the help so far.....

doubleedge
05-30-2008, 01:02 AM
I don't have any information to help you, but I laughed at the title of the thread. Sounds like a crazy conspiracy theorist that saw a ufo.

puppypaws
05-30-2008, 01:04 AM
Dillon, listen very carefully...Call Toro and ask them is they are going to make you file a claim under the Magnison Moss warranty act.

THAT, will get their attention...trust me on this...any manufacturer will know what you mean.

In the mean time you need to Look up the act ...Google it and print it off.

Take that print out to the dealer and show it to them.

Randell

Here is how it applies, but it does not appear he is lacking for attorneys in the family.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.shtm

QUOTE:

How the Magnuson Moss Act May Affect Warranty Disputes
Two other features of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act are also important to warrantors. First, the Act makes it easier for consumers to take an unresolved warranty problem to court. Second, it encourages companies to use a less formal, and therefore less costly, alternative to legal proceedings. Such alternatives, known as dispute resolution mechanisms, often can be used to settle warranty complaints before they reach litigation.

Consumer Lawsuits
The Act makes it easier for purchasers to sue for breach of warranty by making breach of warranty a violation of federal law, and by allowing consumers to recover court costs and reasonable attorneys' fees. This means that if you lose a lawsuit for breach of either a written or an implied warranty, you may have to pay the customer's costs for bringing the suit, including lawyer's fees.

Because of the stringent federal jurisdictional requirements under the Act, most Magnuson-Moss lawsuits are brought in state court. However, major cases involving many consumers can be brought in federal court as class action suits under the Act.

Although the consumer lawsuit provisions may have little effect on your warranty or your business, they are important to remember if you are involved in warranty disputes.

FNG
05-30-2008, 01:09 AM
I have to go back and correct myself on this issue...the Mag Moss act does not apply in this case because of this statement in the act.

Finally, the Act does not apply to warranties on products sold for resale or for commercial purposes. The Act covers only warranties on consumer products. This means that only warranties on tangible property normally used for personal, family, or household purposes are covered. (This includes property attached to or installed on real property.) Note that applicability of the Act to a particular product does not, however, depend upon how an individual buyer will use it.

Sorry for adding to the confusion here.

R

Tvov
05-30-2008, 07:03 AM
Sue, sue, sue. **sigh**

Anyways, there is no problem with warranties or anything, he just doesn't like the cut. The mower runs and cuts grass. I don't think that Magnison act thingamabob would apply.

MarcSmith
05-30-2008, 07:11 AM
PP I have reaatchaed your photo with a few marks,

You say you cut that 10" crap grass down at 15mph...If you say so it must be true, but I think you are FOS

You have areas that appear to be not cut, grass still laying down, ect..

so IMO thats not a perfect cut. If I let the grass get that long at my job, Id be out looking for a new job with in a week. If my quality of grass was that crappy Id be looking for a new job, and if my mower left a cut like yours, I'd be looking for a new mower. I'm glad the hustler works for you and cuts as fast as it does. But again i reiterate those are less than ideal situations for any mower...even the revered super z......

Even if I wanted to cut that fast here on campus I could not. I have over 10K people with 100 acres. We are constantly shutting down or slowing down around people during class change, ect.

My exmark lazer 52 and 60 from the 90's cut my St Augustine and bahia in florida great, My 2 walkers I had cut perfect (but realy slow) My snaper hydro Wb cut great, My 3 gravely Pro 40 Wb cut fescue OK, and my Scag 36, 48, 52, 61, all cut fescue great. I'd love to make a shift over to walkers here on campus, and sacrifice the speed for even a higher quality of cut, but I am very happy with the quality and productivity I get out of the scags. Its win win for me. and if itmeans I can only cut a 10 mph...I'm ok with that.

When i worked for TGLS we had a few toros as well, and they cut tall fescue great.



Dillon,

have you though about trying to swap decks, or try to find someone with the exact same setup IE deck HP engine, ect and set the machines side by side and see if you notice anything out of whack?

I realize this is something the dealer should do, but maybe a different pair of eyes looking at the mower, something might jump out at you...

Good luck

puppypaws
05-30-2008, 07:16 AM
thingamabob

I am glad to see that word, it brings back old memories of younger years. I haven't heard it used in a very long time. Thanks for bringing back the memories.

puppypaws
05-30-2008, 07:54 AM
PP I have reaatchaed your photo with a few marks,

You say you cut that 10" crap grass down at 15mph...If you say so it must be true, but I think you are FOS

You have areas that appear to be not cut, grass still laying down, ect..

so IMO thats not a perfect cut. If I let the grass get that long at my job, Id be out looking for a new job with in a week. If my quality of grass was that crappy Id be looking for a new job, and if my mower left a cut like yours, I'd be looking for a new mower. I'm glad the hustler works for you and cuts as fast as it does. But again i reiterate those are less than ideal situations for any mower...even the revered super z......



Before you let your mouth outrun your brain go back and find where I said anything about cutting that grass you are referring to in the pictures at 15 mph. That was the first time that particular area had been cut this year due to wet conditions. If you can see and comprehend you will know that is a grassed waterway (not a manicured lawn) used to filter water from my crop fields before it enters the lake.

Now, I want you to go back and find where I said I cut the large grass in the pictures at 15 mph, then you can either come and prove me wrong, or you can come back and apologize, while admitting you were wrong.

Your eyes are deceiving you once again or your brain is not accepting the signal correctly. There is no uncut grass standing anywhere in the pictures, and you do not own or have ever owned a mower that would cut that type grass any better than what you see.

I understand you are cutting a campus where the grass is kept beautiful, and you do a very good job. Now, having said that, I mow an entirely different type area than yours which is not manicured nor needs to be. I will say after the first cutting you saw that area will be mowed at 15 mph from here on out. You have a gentleman, which I had never seen before in my life (grasskicker 71) on this forum that came to demo my Super Z. He cut the entire area you are looking at in 7 minutes, we calculated it to be a little over an acre. Now, if he reads this, he will verify what I have said, he also bought a Hustler Super Z after he ran the Super Z of mine for a short period.

I am interested in seeing if you are "man" enough to either prove me wrong or come back and apologize for saying I am "FOS" and you were wrong. Lets find out how much backbone you have, either you will come back and do the right thing (which I would) or you will lose yourself in cyber space.

themowerman
05-30-2008, 08:44 AM
I agree with some of the others....The deck pitch is set wrong. I would also check the engine rpms. There is a checklist that should be followed when they PDI a piece of equipment before a end user takes delivery and it looks like that procedure was not done.

DoetschOutdoor
05-30-2008, 08:58 AM
Also, in that pic above, the grass appears to be mowed with the discharge chute only going one way...like he didnt turn around and just kept the clippings going one way. It would be a different story if you were doing down and back lines.

mag360
05-30-2008, 09:03 AM
Before you let your mouth outrun your brain go back and find where I said anything about cutting that grass you are referring to in the pictures at 15 mph. That was the first time that particular area had been cut this year due to wet conditions. If you can see and comprehend you will know that is a grassed waterway (not a manicured lawn) used to filter water from my crop fields before it enters the lake.

Now, I want you to go back and find where I said I cut the large grass in the pictures at 15 mph, then you can either come and prove me wrong, or you can come back and apologize, while admitting you were wrong.

Your eyes are deceiving you once again or your brain is not accepting the signal correctly. There is no uncut grass standing anywhere in the pictures, and you do not own or have ever owned a mower that would cut that type grass any better than what you see.

I understand you are cutting a campus where the grass is kept beautiful, and you do a very good job. Now, having said that, I mow an entirely different type area than yours which is not manicured nor needs to be. I will say after the first cutting you saw that area will be mowed at 15 mph from here on out. You have a gentleman, which I had never seen before in my life (grasskicker 71) on this forum that came to demo my Super Z. He cut the entire area you are looking at in 7 minutes, we calculated it to be a little over an acre. Now, if he reads this, he will verify what I have said, he also bought a Hustler Super Z after he ran the Super Z of mine for a short period.

I am interested in seeing if you are "man" enough to either prove me wrong or come back and apologize for saying I am "FOS" and you were wrong. Lets find out how much backbone you have, either you will come back and do the right thing (which I would) or you will lose yourself in cyber space.

Even though you are right your delivery is coming across like fred phelps here.

puppypaws
05-30-2008, 11:22 AM
Even though you are right your delivery is coming across like fred phelps here.

OK, now since you have been man enough to admit you were wrong, I will apologize for not being the most tactful person in the world and saying anything offensive to you. Once again, I will say I am sorry if I caused any hard feelings.

Oh, and by the way what type of school campus do you take care of. Just interested!

Reid

S man
05-30-2008, 11:46 AM
Any updates on your toro?

JTF40
05-30-2008, 01:59 PM
I went to the dealer (for a different reason) that Dillon purchased his Toro from, today. After reading countless posts from two different threads on this machine AND talking with the dealer extensively about this machine, I am not going to pass judgement on either party. I will say that there is always two sides to every story - obviously, we here @ Lawnsite have one side.

I don't know Dillon - I have never met him. I'm sure he is a fine young man. But after talkin' with SLE today, I am confident that this matter CAN be settled with a little patience from BOTH sides. :usflag:

DillonsLawnCare
05-30-2008, 02:11 PM
I went to the dealer (for a different reason) that Dillon purchased his Toro from, today. After reading countless posts from two different threads on this machine AND talking with the dealer extensively about this machine, I am not going to pass judgement on either party. I will say that there is always two sides to every story - obviously, we here @ Lawnsite have one side.

I don't know Dillon - I have never met him. I'm sure he is a fine young man. But after talkin' with SLE today, I am confident that this matter CAN be settled with a little patience from BOTH sides. :usflag:


Thats exactly right. it can be settled. for the good or bad. and im absolutely positive that the people at SLE told you one side of the story as well. probably telling you that they bent over backwards and what not, to help. blah blah blah. who did you talk to.??????i could be wrong.

MarcSmith
05-30-2008, 02:35 PM
Before you let your mouth outrun your brain go back and find where I said anything about cutting that grass you are referring to in the pictures at 15 mph. That was the first time that particular area had been cut this year due to wet conditions. If you can see and comprehend you will know that is a grassed waterway (not a manicured lawn) used to filter water from my crop fields before it enters the lake.

Now, I want you to go back and find where I said I cut the large grass in the pictures at 15 mph, then you can either come and prove me wrong, or you can come back and apologize, while admitting you were wrong.

Your eyes are deceiving you once again or your brain is not accepting the signal correctly. There is no uncut grass standing anywhere in the pictures, and you do not own or have ever owned a mower that would cut that type grass any better than what you see.

I understand you are cutting a campus where the grass is kept beautiful, and you do a very good job. Now, having said that, I mow an entirely different type area than yours which is not manicured nor needs to be. I will say after the first cutting you saw that area will be mowed at 15 mph from here on out. You have a gentleman, which I had never seen before in my life (grasskicker 71) on this forum that came to demo my Super Z. He cut the entire area you are looking at in 7 minutes, we calculated it to be a little over an acre. Now, if he reads this, he will verify what I have said, he also bought a Hustler Super Z after he ran the Super Z of mine for a short period.

I am interested in seeing if you are "man" enough to either prove me wrong or come back and apologize for saying I am "FOS" and you were wrong. Lets find out how much backbone you have, either you will come back and do the right thing (which I would) or you will lose yourself in cyber space.

puppy

you kept touting the 15mph speed.... i figured you cut it at 15 like you had been saying...you failed to mention the speed at which you cut the tall grass.

again I could cut that grass with my scag and get just as good a cut as you did. speed being the factor. if I slow down i could cut tall grass and ,make it look good.

I looked the pics and I see grass laying over, and what appears to be strips of mis cut grass. But again you are cutting deep un manicured grass, which I recognized in a previous post, so the first time through i would not expect it to be perfect.

the super Z with the 72" goes 15mph... so on one hour it will travel 5280 ft x 15 or 79200 linear feet x 6 feet wide...475200 square feet. or 10.9 acres per hour or one acre every 5.7 minutes Buy you claim to have cut more than acre in seven minutes. 100% efficiency by someone who was test driving a new machine...

I was wrong, you are not FOS......maybe half FOS

pretty amazing that I have a similar chunk of land here on campus. I went out and ruined my manicure and got dirt in my hair....Such is life I suppose.

I'm cutting with a 52" scag, 23 hp kawi set at 3.5" you can see the 12" ruler in the pic both before the cut and after.

initial cut was 12 minutes with 3 minutes to spread out the clippings.


so I can cut 5.28 acres per hour with no turns no overlap 100 percent efficiency (10 mph speed with 4.33 feet wide). or one acre every 11 minutes. I took 12 minutes to cut 22K sqft or 50% efficiency based on 5.28 acres per hour. not bad for thick trash grass. and I'm OK with it.. Scag has the productivity for a 52" deck @ 20 acres per day. so even if I take into account blowing the clippings around I cut one acre every 30 minutes, thats 16 acres in an 8 hour day of 12-16" trash grass.

JTF40
05-30-2008, 03:23 PM
Did you photo-shop the bush hog out of the photos? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Very impressive. Reminds me of my Kubota ZD331 (sold) - A "hay field" manacured by a lawn mower. :usflag:

DillonsLawnCare
05-30-2008, 03:24 PM
heres some pics of the laoner they gave me, and just some pics...

DillonsLawnCare
05-30-2008, 03:26 PM
more.......

freshprince94
05-30-2008, 03:35 PM
Scary looking Great Dane.

puppypaws
05-30-2008, 03:38 PM
puppy

you kept touting the 15mph speed.... i figured you cut it at 15 like you had been saying...you failed to mention the speed at which you cut the tall grass.

again I could cut that grass with my scag and get just as good a cut as you did. speed being the factor. if I slow down i could cut tall grass and ,make it look good.

I looked the pics and I see grass laying over, and what appears to be strips of mis cut grass. But again you are cutting deep un manicured grass, which I recognized in a previous post, so the first time through i would not expect it to be perfect.

the super Z with the 72" goes 15mph... so on one hour it will travel 5280 ft x 15 or 79200 linear feet x 6 feet wide...475200 square feet. or 10.9 acres per hour or one acre every 5.7 minutes Buy you claim to have cut more than acre in seven minutes. 100% efficiency by someone who was test driving a new machine...

I was wrong, you are not FOS......maybe half FOS

pretty amazing that I have a similar chunk of land here on campus. I went out and ruined my manicure and got dirt in my hair....Such is life I suppose.

I'm cutting with a 52" scag, 23 hp kawi set at 3.5" you can see the 12" ruler in the pic both before the cut and after.

initial cut was 12 minutes with 3 minutes to spread out the clippings.


so I can cut 5.28 acres per hour with no turns no overlap 100 percent efficiency (10 mph speed with 4.33 feet wide). or one acre every 11 minutes. I took 12 minutes to cut 22K sqft or 50% efficiency based on 5.28 acres per hour. not bad for thick trash grass. and I'm OK with it.. Scag has the productivity for a 52" deck @ 20 acres per day. so even if I take into account blowing the clippings around I cut one acre every 30 minutes, thats 16 acres in an 8 hour day of 12-16" trash grass.

I guess I will have to teach you how to calculate also.

I have a 66" deck so 5.5 x 5280' x 15 mph = 435,600 sq. ft. ÷ 43,560 = 10 ac. per hour in a straight line. This = .166 acres per minute which = 1.17 acres in 7 minutes at 100% efficiency. This was 600' long straight flat runs which was probably cut at 90% efficiency, whip around sticks slammed forward and running wide open immediately. This would be 1.05 acres in 7 minutes.

I said we calculated (guessed on width and distance) and I just looked at my cell phone time, did not use a stop watch. Now this could have been 7 1/2 minutes, can't tell with a cell phone and the acreage was not perfect. He will tell you if he read this, he was a little embarrassed to tell me he forgot to switch the blades on until he made the first pass and noticed there was no grass cut. I will say this, without doubt he cut an acre in so close to 7 minutes you could not tell the difference.

You are getting yourself into the wrong debate again, I use to survey for a living, you want out calculate me. You just keep listening to me and you will learn something. I've been around a lot longer and had much more experience with many different things than you have.

I don't want to hurt your feelings but if you put that Scag with me on this property with the large wide open flat areas, I would embarrass you by running circles around around the Scag.
The long straight runs I would be turned around and meeting you before you were 2/3 of the way finished with your first run. This is not a fairy tale, but a fact that can be proven.

puppypaws
05-30-2008, 03:55 PM
heres some pics of the laoner they gave me, and just some pics...

Give us your comparison of the cuts, I realize you are on a different property.
It certainly appears the Great Dane by far surpasses the mower you have.

whoopassonthebluegrass
05-30-2008, 03:56 PM
The long straight runs I would be turned around and meeting you before you were 2/3 of the way finished with your first run. This is not a fairy tale, but a fact that can be proven.

That's it! You guys should meet at midnight on some back street and race your mowers for pink slips! :laugh:

DillonsLawnCare
05-30-2008, 04:03 PM
Give us your comparison of the cuts, I realize you are on a different property.
It certainly appears the Great Dane by far surpasses the mower you have.

The great Dane has tons of vacuum!! It Definately out cut my toro 4:1.:weightlifter:. sometimes it leaves grass in the same spots my toro does it. its weird. but its only when im cutting thin grass, is when it does it. my toro did it in the thicker fescue. odd......

anyway, the great dane has a better cut. the toro is a better machine. To me, it looks like they copied the turf tiger design, for the gas tank under the seat, and the two wheel cover things.

the controls are gay. thats all i have to say

freshprince94
05-30-2008, 04:16 PM
The great Dane has tons of vacuum!! It Definately out cut my toro 4:1.:weightlifter:. sometimes it leaves grass in the same spots my toro does it. its weird. but its only when im cutting thin grass, is when it does it. my toro did it in the thicker fescue. odd......

anyway, the great dane has a better cut. the toro is a better machine. To me, it looks like they copied the turf tiger design, for the gas tank under the seat, and the two wheel cover things.

the controls are gay. thats all i have to say

That's one reason I would never buy a Great Dane.

TandM
05-30-2008, 04:17 PM
I agree With those stupid controls. Get it worked out dillon

puppypaws
05-30-2008, 04:38 PM
That's it! You guys should meet at midnight on some back street and race your mowers for pink slips! :laugh:

That was done a lot in my earlier years, drag race for titles of the cars. I ordered and bought a 1968 Mustang 4 speed with with the first 390 to be put in a Mustang. They had the 289 before the 390 came out, we would have street drag races on a regular basis.

mag360
05-30-2008, 05:54 PM
OK, now since you have been man enough to admit you were wrong, I will apologize for not being the most tactful person in the world and saying anything offensive to you. Once again, I will say I am sorry if I caused any hard feelings.

Oh, and by the way what type of school campus do you take care of. Just interested!

Reid

I'm never wrong:usflag:

MarcSmith is the landscape and grounds manager for Georgetown University---if that's what you were asking. He is very qualified to have an opinion on all things lawn care.

TWUllc
05-30-2008, 05:58 PM
my toro mower is still having cutting problems.
this is my yard. Fescue. i cut it down to 3.5" and i was cutting off about 3".

here you go..................and i put some pics of me cutting my grass about a week ago.

Cutting 3 inches of grass off, with it looking to be you're going full bore on the speed, no wonder. Hilarious

tomo
05-30-2008, 07:31 PM
hello,
Dillon
Where do we start !!!
The problem u mention can be sectioned into four [4] areas
1/operater error and experience
2/ incorrect machine for job
3/incorrectly adjusted
4/part failure

3,4 answered by others

1/ operater error
donot cut more than 1-2 inches of grass an expect a good finish
99% of mowers will not cut all grasses in all conditions
tall thick or more than just slightly wet/damp will not give a perfect cut
When u r turning it does appear if the ground in some of the pics is not very flat
When turning machine try a few different ways/ methods . On my own machine this can slightly occur[rarely] but i must say your pics are leaving a large amount behind

2/ 21 hp and a cheap version toro deck 52inch [U GOT WHAT U PAID FOR ]

*** 28efi with a 52inch turbo force will give u a far better result ***

Beaware that at least some makers have had issues with blade speed on 52 inch decks

Many makers offer cheap imitation decks that are no where near the performance of there top line unit all be it very similar
----------------
my toro out performs my walker in a mulching and side discharge set ups

Toro 597[diesel] 60inch S/Discharge
walkers MTGHS 25HP 42pickup /42 mulch /52 side dis

tomo:waving:
ps toro cust service is average
---------------

To the people with Dikless my applogies Dixion machines ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha :laugh::laugh:
Toro machines out perform them easily ,if they measured up i would own one.......

S man
05-30-2008, 07:57 PM
Looks like a not so great dane. lol!!!

puppypaws
05-30-2008, 09:12 PM
puppy

you kept touting the 15mph speed.... i figured you cut it at 15 like you had been saying...you failed to mention the speed at which you cut the tall grass.

again I could cut that grass with my scag and get just as good a cut as you did. speed being the factor. if I slow down i could cut tall grass and ,make it look good.

I looked the pics and I see grass laying over, and what appears to be strips of mis cut grass. But again you are cutting deep un manicured grass, which I recognized in a previous post, so the first time through i would not expect it to be perfect.

the super Z with the 72" goes 15mph... so on one hour it will travel 5280 ft x 15 or 79200 linear feet x 6 feet wide...475200 square feet. or 10.9 acres per hour or one acre every 5.7 minutes Buy you claim to have cut more than acre in seven minutes. 100% efficiency by someone who was test driving a new machine...

I was wrong, you are not FOS......maybe half FOS

pretty amazing that I have a similar chunk of land here on campus. I went out and ruined my manicure and got dirt in my hair....Such is life I suppose.

I'm cutting with a 52" scag, 23 hp kawi set at 3.5" you can see the 12" ruler in the pic both before the cut and after.

initial cut was 12 minutes with 3 minutes to spread out the clippings.


so I can cut 5.28 acres per hour with no turns no overlap 100 percent efficiency (10 mph speed with 4.33 feet wide). or one acre every 11 minutes. I took 12 minutes to cut 22K sqft or 50% efficiency based on 5.28 acres per hour. not bad for thick trash grass. and I'm OK with it.. Scag has the productivity for a 52" deck @ 20 acres per day. so even if I take into account blowing the clippings around I cut one acre every 30 minutes, thats 16 acres in an 8 hour day of 12-16" trash grass.

Ok, Mark nice to hear your credentials> I measured the area I was speaking of because I got curious. It measured 874' long x 55' avg. wide = 48,070 sq ft divided by 43560 = 1.10 acres. I just finished measuring the time to mow that area with a stop watch and it took 8 minutes and 12 seconds. The grass was heavier and the blades more dull than when (grasskicker 71) mowed in less time but I was not very far off. I probably turned and pushed a little harder than he did also.

trinity1
05-30-2008, 09:27 PM
I use to have a scag mower that did that. I found out that it was thae gator blades I was using and the dealer said some after market blades sometimes are cut smaller than factory blades

trinity1
05-30-2008, 09:28 PM
I use to have a scag mower that did that. I found out that it was the gator blades I was using and the dealer said some after market blades sometimes are cut smaller than factory blades

MarcSmith
05-31-2008, 07:10 AM
Ok, Mark nice to hear your credentials> I measured the area I was speaking of because I got curious. It measured 874' long x 55' avg. wide = 48,070 sq ft divided by 43560 = 1.10 acres. I just finished measuring the time to mow that area with a stop watch and it took 8 minutes and 12 seconds. The grass was heavier and the blades more dull than when (grasskicker 71) mowed in less time but I was not very far off. I probably turned and pushed a little harder than he did also.

we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm glad you like cutting grass at 15 mph...I can't do it...and i would not trust my guys to cut that fast on campus...

I buy my mower for quality of cut, price, parts avail. I have no need for a dealer other than parts, our first scag came around 10 years ago (36") belt, we finally sold it for 500 bucks last year. When we went Hydro.

Keep on cuttin'

lawnboy858
05-31-2008, 11:41 AM
Dillon,

When I was out yesterday cutting some of my accounts for the week, I decided to take pictures of my first passes in each yard. The grass was about 6-7 inches long on average and I was mowing full speed.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/Soccermaniac124/0530081832.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/Soccermaniac124/0530081836.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/Soccermaniac124/0530081951.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/Soccermaniac124/0530082033.jpg

There is clearly something wrong with your mower, be it the deck, or an adjustment that needs to be made. I don't think it is the way you operate the machine.

Good Luck.

Matt

puppypaws
05-31-2008, 12:17 PM
we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm glad you like cutting grass at 15 mph...I can't do it...and i would not trust my guys to cut that fast on campus...

I buy my mower for quality of cut, price, parts avail. I have no need for a dealer other than parts, our first scag came around 10 years ago (36") belt, we finally sold it for 500 bucks last year. When we went Hydro.

Keep on cuttin'

From people I know that sell Scags in the 2500 hr. range the resale value holds up better than any mower on the market. I don't know which mower your people run but I would suppose it would be the TT, it is a 12 mph mower and that is fast enough for most people anyway. They are getting paid by the hour so what difference does it make to them how long it takes, pays the same.

DillonsLawnCare
05-31-2008, 08:59 PM
Dillon,

When I was out yesterday cutting some of my accounts for the week, I decided to take pictures of my first passes in each yard. The grass was about 6-7 inches long on average and I was mowing full speed.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/Soccermaniac124/0530081832.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/Soccermaniac124/0530081836.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/Soccermaniac124/0530081951.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/Soccermaniac124/0530082033.jpg

There is clearly something wrong with your mower, be it the deck, or an adjustment that needs to be made. I don't think it is the way you operate the machine.

Good Luck.

Matt


looks real nice. i wish my mower could cut like that, that fast. hopefully it gets resolved. thanks for the pics. very nice:weightlifter::weightlifter:

Lawn Enforcer
05-31-2008, 09:10 PM
That's one reason I would never buy a Great Dane.

I thought more people liked those controls. I used them once and I loved them, I wish Everride offered them.

John Gamba
05-31-2008, 09:11 PM
looks real nice. i wish my mower could cut like that, that fast. hopefully it gets resolved. thanks for the pics. very nice:weightlifter::weightlifter:


Your deck Pitch is off. it looks like your deck is flat. raise the rear of it up till it cuts better.

lifetree
05-31-2008, 11:33 PM
Did you bag in those pictures ? It looks like it, but I'm just guessing. It seems like when ever someone brings up Dixon you throw that same picture up every time. Lets see a different one ... Matt

My apology, I didn't mean to bore anyone by "throwing up the same pictures every time" ... it's just that those are the pictures of my equipment for 2008, so if someone asks to see my equipment, that's what I have to show them !! I'm not going to take new pictures every time someone wants to see my equipment.

However, on the off chance that what I was being asked for was pictures of how my Dixon cuts, I took a picture of that today and it is posted here.

lifetree
05-31-2008, 11:37 PM
... Key to any machine, if you don't know it. get a demo....try one out...By and large though they all cut good.

This is true ... by and large, most commercial machines do provide a good quality cut !!

lifetree
05-31-2008, 11:46 PM
... For all of you who tell me to talk to the toro rep, it isnt happening. we've tried talking to them, but they are all jerks. everyone in the toro's customer service are snobs ...

This is most likely true because when you're the number 1 brand you begin acting like it and not listening to your customers !! It looks like Toro is suffering from this type anemic business philosophy, that's why you need to go with another brand ... like Dixon. However, as stated previously, most commercial machines will provide a good quality cut. The difference lies in the level of service which you're dealer can provide.

S man
06-01-2008, 12:38 AM
This is most likely true because when you're the number 1 brand you begin acting like it and not listening to your customers !! It looks like Toro is suffering from this type anemic business philosophy, that's why you need to go with another brand ... like Dixon. However, as stated previously, most commercial machines will provide a good quality cut. The difference lies in the level of service which you're dealer can provide.

I won't ever buy a dixon again! lol

puppypaws
06-01-2008, 03:27 AM
My apology, I didn't mean to bore anyone by "throwing up the same pictures every time" ... it's just that those are the pictures of my equipment for 2008, so if someone asks to see my equipment, that's what I have to show them !! I'm not going to take new pictures every time someone wants to see my equipment.

However, on the off chance that what I was being asked for was pictures of how my Dixon cuts, I took a picture of that today and it is posted here.

I know nothing about a Dixon mower, but that cut is very good, it also appears to be cut very low, the same as I do, which always gives a better appearance but is not good for the health of the grass.
I personally have more junk than grass, that is the reason I cut at 2 3/4" instead of 3 1/2" like a person would on good plush healthy grass with no weeds.

johnwon
06-01-2008, 08:04 AM
Hi; I've read most of this thread.....I would just adjust the deck pitch myself rather than take it back to the dealer. They should have adjusted it theirself the first time you returned it with cut quality problems. But as you may find out that most people in this world are....I'm not sure if they are just that stupid or just don't give a f@c* about their jobs?? I think that thinking they dont give a F@c* is giving them too much credit. Anyway adjust your deck pitch and try HI LIFT blades. If that don't fix it, I guess it's a lesson learned on what is advised so often here: Demo, Demo, Demo.... Good luck

puppypaws
06-01-2008, 08:27 AM
Hi; I've read most of this thread.....I would just adjust the deck pitch myself rather than take it back to the dealer. They should have adjusted it theirself the first time you returned it with cut quality problems. But as you may find out that most people in this world are....I'm not sure if they are just that stupid or just don't give a f@c* about their jobs?? I think that thinking they dont give a F@c* is giving them too much credit. Anyway adjust your deck pitch and try HI LIFT blades. If that don't fix it, I guess it's a lesson learned on what is advised so often here: Demo, Demo, Demo.... Good luck

I think what you are seeing in this country is a larger percentage of people in the retail market (no matter what the market is) caring less about customer service.

The people (not all, but more than once was) seem to think they are doing you a favor if they allow you to buy something from them, like no one else can sell them what they may need. Toro should be dead on top of his problem, yet they seem not to be interested at all. The dealer should do everything possible to get his mower straightened out.

I personally think it is more than a slight adjustment problem (could be wrong) but as you can see he pulled the Great Dane Mower off the trailer and it did a wonderful job. How could they let a Toro get out to a customer in that kind of shape to begin with. They know how these mowers should be set up to get a very good cut and they should all leave the dealer set up that way. You may need to tweak slightly for your conditions but it darn sure should not come off the trailer cutting the way Dillon's is. I would be embarrassed to know I let a mower leave my business in that shape.

John Gamba
06-01-2008, 08:48 AM
Hi; I've read most of this thread.....I would just adjust the deck pitch myself rather than take it back to the dealer. They should have adjusted it theirself the first time you returned it with cut quality problems. But as you may find out that most people in this world are....I'm not sure if they are just that stupid or just don't give a f@c* about their jobs?? I think that thinking they dont give a F@c* is giving them too much credit. Anyway adjust your deck pitch and try HI LIFT blades. If that don't fix it, I guess it's a lesson learned on what is advised so often here: Demo, Demo, Demo.... Good luck


I forgot to add this. I also think his RPM's are low. That will cause the blade speed to drop and miss cutting the strips of grass. the deck being off will cause this condition too.


Not seeing the mower personally, makes it a guess on my part.Good luck and please let us know the out come.

Jason Rose
06-01-2008, 09:07 AM
Man what a long thread! I just clammered my way thru it, and a couple things I wanted to add:

Dillon, on the great dane with the Kohler that's backfiring when you shut it off, don't turn it off at low throttle. You can idle it down for a few seconds if you want, but bump the throttle up to around 1/4 and then shut it off. Kohler recommends 1/2 throttle shut-downs, but I found that even less than that will keep them from backfiring.

Second, I can't believe that people actually think that cutting off 3" is soooo hard. I cut off 3" every day of the week, right now, this past month it's more like 3 to 5 inches a week, and some places more than that. My mowers hav all been expected to do it clean and in one pass. My Grasshopper can do it without a problem, other than the engine being underpowered for such mowing. Sorry I don't have any pics of the Grasshopper cut, but it sure dosn't leave strips or stragglers! The cut is even and smooth pretty much no matter what the conditions. Only place I've had a poor cut is a lawn that I have to mow an area of VERY sparce and wiry weeds, plus the ground is rather rough. Now, the reason I can cut so much off and not have to deal with double cutting to *try* to disperse the clippings is that I'm bagging! The machine cuts just as good without the blower/catcher though.

I found that the deck on mine was slightly unlevel and not pitched properly too a few weeks after I bought it. This was supposed to be adjusted at the dealer before I picked it up, and what's sad is that I was argued with and they said it was adjusted. So I took on the process myself, and I don't know about Toro's, but Grasshoppers have a rather complex set of instructions to level, and you better do it in the ORDER they tell you too, lol.

I'm cutting about 80 some lawns a week, the vast majority is cut with my Grasshopper. If it cut like your Toro did I would have found out why...

johnwon
06-01-2008, 12:10 PM
I think what you are seeing in this country is a larger percentage of people in the retail market (no matter what the market is) caring less about customer service.

The people (not all, but more than once was) seem to think they are doing you a favor if they allow you to buy something from them, like no one else can sell them what they may need. Toro should be dead on top of his problem, yet they seem not to be interested at all. The dealer should do everything possible to get his mower straightened out.

I personally think it is more than a slight adjustment problem (could be wrong) but as you can see he pulled the Great Dane Mower off the trailer and it did a wonderful job. How could they let a Toro get out to a customer in that kind of shape to begin with. They know how these mowers should be set up to get a very good cut and they should all leave the dealer set up that way. You may need to tweak slightly for your conditions but it darn sure should not come off the trailer cutting the way Dillon's is. I would be embarrassed to know I let a mower leave my business in that shape.

Yes sir, I've run into those kind too. I will most likely not buy from those type just for that very reason. Unless they are the onlyone I can find that has the product in question at the time and I need it NOW.

johnwon
06-01-2008, 12:35 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention the fact that it most likely needs more than a slight adjustment. I too will be surprise if this is all it needs. Though another poster did bring up the measurements that Dillon posted and it is clearly pitched backwards. So there are a lot of ideas on what might be wrong with it, the pitch is for sure one thing that is wrong with it based on his own measurements. So I'd fix that just because it needs fixed. I strongly agree with another poster who stated that this should have been done before the dealer released it to the customer. That is one of the things they charge you for when they sell it to you "Dealer Prep" What is that...??? Those of you who buy from a dealer who does this, great!! you get what you paid for. The rest including myself just got charged for something we did not receive "Ripped off"

puppypaws
06-01-2008, 03:11 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention the fact that it most likely needs more than a slight adjustment. I too will be surprise if this is all it needs. Though another poster did bring up the measurements that Dillon posted and it is clearly pitched backwards. So there are a lot of ideas on what might be wrong with it, the pitch is for sure one thing that is wrong with it based on his own measurements. So I'd fix that just because it needs fixed. I strongly agree with another poster who stated that this should have been done before the dealer released it to the customer. That is one of the things they charge you for when they sell it to you "Dealer Prep" What is that...??? Those of you who buy from a dealer who does this, great!! you get what you paid for. The rest including myself just got charged for something we did not receive "Ripped off"

Most all mower manufactures send a check list to the dealer assembling the mower. If the dealers personnel follows the check list properly, this type thing should never happen due to an adjustment of any type. A faulty component is a totally different thing which the dealer would have no control over an no one would know until the mower was put into use.

lifetree
06-01-2008, 04:04 PM
I know nothing about a Dixon mower, but that cut is very good, it also appears to be cut very low, the same as I do, which always gives a better appearance but is not good for the health of the grass.
I personally have more junk than grass, that is the reason I cut at 2 3/4" instead of 3 1/2" like a person would on good plush healthy grass with no weeds.

puppypaws -- Thank you for the comment about the cut quality of the Dixon, and you are also correct about the cut being a little low !! I was testing the cut a little lower yesterday to see how it would look ... that's the first time I've cut at that height before and I think it looks OK. The picture was taken directly after cutting that yard in 1 pass after a week's worth of growth with some heavy rain. Also, I don't bag or mulch.

However, you're comment about the low cut not being healthy for the grass is another consideration, along with thatch buildup, etc. I haven't decided whether I will continue cutting at that height or not.

The main thing about posting that picture is that I got the comment concerning always throwing up the same picture. Also, alot of people seem to have negative opinions about Dixon here on LS, it's quality of cut as well as it's supposed inability to stand up to commercial use. Therefore, I wanted to post the picture to illustrate that I get a good quality of cut from my Dixon unit.

lifetree
06-01-2008, 04:08 PM
I won't ever buy a dixon again! lol

S man -- In your other thread I asked why you were "dissatisfied" with your Dixon Black Bear unit, but I didn't see a response to that question !! Now, you've said that here in this thread with the "LOL" after it, so I'm not sure it whether you're serious about it, or not. If you're serious about that comment, please let me know why because I'm curious ... send me a PM if you want to.

DillonsLawnCare
06-01-2008, 10:41 PM
When i get the mower back, ill ask them what they did to it, and to explain what they did and why. ill let you guys know as soon as they call me.

Thanks

S man
06-02-2008, 12:28 AM
S man -- In your other thread I asked why you were "dissatisfied" with your Dixon Black Bear unit, but I didn't see a response to that question !! Now, you've said that here in this thread with the "LOL" after it, so I'm not sure it whether you're serious about it, or not. If you're serious about that comment, please let me know why because I'm curious ... send me a PM if you want to.

Because I the black bear is overpriced($5399) has a bad mulching setup, leaves a bad cut, and is not built like an exmark or other real commercial brand. It did look cool but aint for me. A guy down the street cuts a lawn I used to do with a church on it and uses his blackbear and the cut looks terrible. Mulch clumps and stuff everywhere. The lady across the street said I did a better job.(phazer)

John Gamba
06-02-2008, 05:44 AM
When i get the mower back, ill ask them what they did to it, and to explain what they did and why. ill let you guys know as soon as they call me.

Thanks

Thank you. Good luck

MarcSmith
06-02-2008, 07:03 AM
From people I know that sell Scags in the 2500 hr. range the resale value holds up better than any mower on the market. I don't know which mower your people run but I would suppose it would be the TT, it is a 12 mph mower and that is fast enough for most people anyway. They are getting paid by the hour so what difference does it make to them how long it takes, pays the same.


We have a 61" tiger cub with the 23 kawi (1000 hours), a 52 Wildcat with the 23 kawi(800 hours), and a 36 and 48" Wb with kawi power (400 hours each).

So they are 10mph ZTR...We try to turn 4 stroke equipment over about every 5-7 years or so. depending on hours/abuse/repairs, ect.

including blowing and trimming we spend about 300 man hours each week just on the turf. We get a little reprieve in the summer when the fescue slows down.

lifetree
06-02-2008, 09:32 PM
Because I the black bear is overpriced($5399) ... It did look cool but aint for me ...

So, do you still have the Black Bear ?? If so, do you want to sell it ... what asking price ?? I'm not saying I want it, I'm just trying to find out what you're going to do with it ??

DillonsLawnCare
06-12-2008, 01:14 PM
Ok guys, i just got off the phone with Chris from Southern Lawn Equipment (SLE). He had told me that they figured out the problem. He said that the middle spindle's bolts were an inch off.(they were not drilled correctly by the guy with the drill), meaning that the middle spindle was in line with the other two spindles and it wasnt leading, like a triangle. This caused the middle blade not to overlap the cutting of the far left blade. this is what let the grass. he said they had to get a new mower and compare the two decks side by side. So he called me and told me that they have another deck on order from toro. they will replace it and then test it. he said that this time they will inspect the mower. it almost sounds like they didn't check it the first time like they told me........... anyways that was their conlcusion and they'll call me in a couple of days when its ready.

thanks!!!

John Gamba
06-12-2008, 01:38 PM
Ok guys, i just got off the phone with Chris from Southern Lawn Equipment (SLE). He had told me that they figured out the problem. He said that the middle spindle's bolts were an inch off.(they were not drilled correctly by the guy with the drill), meaning that the middle spindle was in line with the other two spindles and it wasnt leading, like a triangle. This caused the middle blade not to overlap the cutting of the far left blade. this is what let the grass. he said they had to get a new mower and compare the two decks side by side. So he called me and told me that they have another deck on order from toro. they will replace it and then test it. he said that this time they will inspect the mower. it almost sounds like they didn't check it the first time like they told me........... anyways that was their conlcusion and they'll call me in a couple of days when its ready.

thanks!!!


Great news. its something that never really happens and is hard to pinpoint.sound's like they know what they are doing or will do what ever it takes to solve the problem.


I'm Happy for you:waving: Keep us posted.

cgaengineer
06-12-2008, 01:41 PM
Ok guys, i just got off the phone with Chris from Southern Lawn Equipment (SLE). He had told me that they figured out the problem. He said that the middle spindle's bolts were an inch off.(they were not drilled correctly by the guy with the drill), meaning that the middle spindle was in line with the other two spindles and it wasnt leading, like a triangle. This caused the middle blade not to overlap the cutting of the far left blade. this is what let the grass. he said they had to get a new mower and compare the two decks side by side. So he called me and told me that they have another deck on order from toro. they will replace it and then test it. he said that this time they will inspect the mower. it almost sounds like they didn't check it the first time like they told me........... anyways that was their conlcusion and they'll call me in a couple of days when its ready.

thanks!!!

Hard to believe that the holes would be off as I am sure the holes are not drilled by hand...I suppose that the deck could have not been seated in the jig correctly causing this issue. Hopefully a new deck will fix it though.

MarcSmith
06-12-2008, 01:49 PM
Thats good to hear... I mean its good that they finally found the problem... I'm sure just looking at a deck one might not notice the spindle being off enough to affect overlap. It took a second deck and a ruler to finally find the problem.

I hope that the new deck solves the problem, and I hope that Toro or the dealer pony up a mower payment, some free services, blades, or something to compensate you for the trouble you have gone through to get the problem resolved.

If I was Toro/Dealer I would have just put your butt in the seat of new mower.....and made your model a demo unit once the new deck was installed.

take some pics of the new nice clean cut...

DillonsLawnCare
06-12-2008, 02:14 PM
Thats good to hear... I mean its good that they finally found the problem... I'm sure just looking at a deck one might not notice the spindle being off enough to affect overlap. It took a second deck and a ruler to finally find the problem.

I hope that the new deck solves the problem, and I hope that Toro or the dealer pony up a mower payment, some free services, blades, or something to compensate you for the trouble you have gone through to get the problem resolved.

If I was Toro/Dealer I would have just put your butt in the seat of new mower.....and made your model a demo unit once the new deck was installed.

take some pics of the new nice clean cut...


Thanks to all so far, and as for giving me a free something, the dealer would never do that. they could give a ****. thankfully they have been cooperative enough to fix the issue. i will take pics. If i was a toro dealer, i would have given me a new machine, or ordered a turbo force deck to put on that sucker and EAT IT!! but thats me. anyways, thanks for the replies and your welcome!!
:cool2::cool2::weightlifter::weightlifter::waving::drinkup::walking::weightlifter::usflag::usflag:

South Florida Lawns
06-12-2008, 04:06 PM
WOW ... and they say Toro is suppose to be the best ?? Yeah right !! I'll stick with my Dixon, thank you !!

Toro is the best

Jk but they are damn near the top in my opinion!

mattdeez
06-12-2008, 05:14 PM
Thanks to all so far, and as for giving me a free something, the dealer would never do that. they could give a ****. thankfully they have been cooperative enough to fix the issue. i will take pics. If i was a toro dealer, i would have given me a new machine, or ordered a turbo force deck to put on that sucker and EAT IT!! but thats me. anyways, thanks for the replies and your welcome!!
:cool2::cool2::weightlifter::weightlifter::waving::drinkup::walking::weightlifter::usflag::usflag:

Since the dealer gets all his stuff free he/she should give it to you for free. right genius?

At best they should give you a demo to compensate your down time an then repair your unit. Remember they are just a dealer...they didn't build it or engineer it. They are simply an agent for Toro.

"Customer is always right" bologna. Customer service is number one, however 'reason' should come into play as well.

Nothing is free.

puppypaws
06-12-2008, 05:29 PM
Ok guys, i just got off the phone with Chris from Southern Lawn Equipment (SLE). He had told me that they figured out the problem. He said that the middle spindle's bolts were an inch off.(they were not drilled correctly by the guy with the drill), meaning that the middle spindle was in line with the other two spindles and it wasnt leading, like a triangle. This caused the middle blade not to overlap the cutting of the far left blade. this is what let the grass. he said they had to get a new mower and compare the two decks side by side. So he called me and told me that they have another deck on order from toro. they will replace it and then test it. he said that this time they will inspect the mower. it almost sounds like they didn't check it the first time like they told me........... anyways that was their conlcusion and they'll call me in a couple of days when its ready.

thanks!!!

This is what I said in a previous post while everyone was talking about adjustments. Seems to have held true!

I don't understand how it happened, but it did.



A mower such as Dillon's will not leave a cut that pitiful, unless something is wrong with the machine.

Roger
06-12-2008, 10:15 PM
Something does not sound right about the description of the problem of a spindle being off its intended setting. If the holes were an inch one way or the other, the blade would also be off. This machine does not have timed blades, right? Any multi-spindle machine I've seen, the blade clearance is very small. If the center blade and an outside one are in the minimum distance position, they should have a small clearance, say 1/8 to 1/4". Having the holes wrongly placed (read: the spindle wrongly placed) would mean the clearance between blade tips would not be as designed. When the blades are in a right position, the tips should interfere. If this is the case, Dillon would have felt/heard them clashing. That was not the case.

What am I missing in my concern? Maybe I've misinterpreted what was said regarding the problem. Why a whole new deck? Why not redrill the holes, remount the spindle in the rightful place, and the deck should be good. The four (five?) holes formerly used, now not used should not provide enough weakness to be a problem. I presume the spindle assembly is mounted on a flat top of the deck (e.g. no depressions for the spindle mounting positions). I'm sorry, I've not done any work on this deck, so I am not familiar with it.

freshprince94
06-12-2008, 10:41 PM
Bottom line is, the mower (or at least the deck) was a lemon. Factory error caused it to cut like crap. SLE could have handled it better, but it ultimately was Toro's fault.

That's one of the advantage's of eXmark over Toro. They are locally produced in one factory (they make their own mowers seperate from Toro). Toro is a huge company who makes parts in various different locations.

John Gamba
06-13-2008, 06:04 AM
Bottom line is, the mower (or at least the deck) was a lemon. Factory error caused it to cut like crap. SLE could have handled it better, but it ultimately was Toro's fault.

That's one of the advantage's of eXmark over Toro. They are locally produced in one factory (they make their own mowers seperate from Toro). Toro is a huge company who makes parts in various different locations.


I have receved at least two bad exmarks in my day.

Frue
06-13-2008, 06:46 AM
Bottom line is, the mower (or at least the deck) was a lemon. Factory error caused it to cut like crap. SLE could have handled it better, but it ultimately was Toro's fault.

That's one of the advantage's of eXmark over Toro. They are locally produced in one factory (they make their own mowers seperate from Toro). Toro is a huge company who makes parts in various different locations.

errrrrrrt they are now made in the same place.

DillonsLawnCare
06-13-2008, 11:16 AM
eXmark and Toro are not made in the same place. they were back in like 1999-2002, but eXmark is currently in nebraska, while toro resides in minnesota.

lawnboy858
06-13-2008, 11:48 AM
eXmark and Toro are not made in the same place. they were back in like 1999-2002, but eXmark is currently in nebraska, while toro resides in minnesota.

Dillon,

any updates on the mower?

DillonsLawnCare
06-13-2008, 12:49 PM
Ok guys, i just got off the phone with Chris from Southern Lawn Equipment (SLE). He had told me that they figured out the problem. He said that the middle spindle's bolts were an inch off.(they were not drilled correctly by the guy with the drill), meaning that the middle spindle was in line with the other two spindles and it wasnt leading, like a triangle. This caused the middle blade not to overlap the cutting of the far left blade. this is what let the grass. he said they had to get a new mower and compare the two decks side by side. So he called me and told me that they have another deck on order from toro. they will replace it and then test it. he said that this time they will inspect the mower. it almost sounds like they didn't check it the first time like they told me........... anyways that was their conlcusion and they'll call me in a couple of days when its ready.

thanks!!!


lawnboy858, here is what just happened yesterday. Thanks

freshprince94
06-13-2008, 03:04 PM
I have receved at least two bad exmarks in my day.

They aren't perfect but their quality control seems to be pretty good.

freshprince94
06-13-2008, 03:05 PM
eXmark and Toro are not made in the same place. they were back in like 1999-2002, but eXmark is currently in nebraska, while toro resides in minnesota.

That is correct. Actually, eXmark makes the tractor frame of Toro's Z-Masters. Toro makes the decks.

John Gamba
06-13-2008, 03:32 PM
They aren't perfect but their quality control seems to be pretty good.


They where great till toro took over.toro pushes there crap out fast.now they expect it from exmark. i remember the good old days before extoro came along.

John Gamba
06-13-2008, 03:34 PM
That is correct. Actually, eXmark makes the tractor frame of Toro's Z-Masters. Toro makes the decks.


All most everything is exmark on the toros.toro could not make a commercial mower,they need to buy one like we do:laugh:

DillonsLawnCare
06-22-2008, 12:37 PM
ok guys, i just got my mower back and they replaced the deck shell with a new one. i cut a property with it( real thin grass) and i could tell there was alot more vacuum than before. it left a carpet smooth cut. now i just have to test it out on some thicker fescue and then i will really see.

also, its got about 25 hours on it and i have not changed to hydraulic oil filter yet, cause they put it in such a tight space, i cant get it off. ive tried big pliers, and an oil filter remover( the one with the strap), and nothing will fit. if any of you have any suggestions, please feel free to give me your 2 cents.

thanks

XterraJohn
06-22-2008, 01:06 PM
also, its got about 25 hours on it and i have not changed to hydraulic oil filter yet, cause they put it in such a tight space, i cant get it off. ive tried big pliers, and an oil filter remover( the one with the strap), and nothing will fit. if any of you have any suggestions, please feel free to give me your 2 cents.


I put a piece of sandpaper around the filter, and then grab the sandpaper with my hand and twist. The sandpaper usually keeps your hand from slipping when you're trying to twist the filter off.

Of course, on my factory oil filter, that didn't work since it seemed to have been put on extremely tight.

jaybird24
06-22-2008, 02:09 PM
try to find a filter wrench that goes on a socket wrench- they work great for tight spaces. You can use the socket extension to get really tight spots- they do not allow you to tighten though only loosen.

DillonsLawnCare
06-22-2008, 02:43 PM
ok, where about do you think ill be able to find one??? Thanks!!!!

ed2hess
06-22-2008, 02:46 PM
Something does not sound right about the description of the problem of a spindle being off its intended setting. If the holes were an inch one way or the other, the blade would also be off. This machine does not have timed blades, right? Any multi-spindle machine I've seen, the blade clearance is very small. If the center blade and an outside one are in the minimum distance position, they should have a small clearance, say 1/8 to 1/4". Having the holes wrongly placed (read: the spindle wrongly placed) would mean the clearance between blade tips would not be as designed. When the blades are in a right position, the tips should interfere. If this is the case, Dillon would have felt/heard them clashing. That was not the case.

What am I missing in my concern? Maybe I've misinterpreted what was said regarding the problem. Why a whole new deck? Why not redrill the holes, remount the spindle in the rightful place, and the deck should be good. The four (five?) holes formerly used, now not used should not provide enough weakness to be a problem. I presume the spindle assembly is mounted on a flat top of the deck (e.g. no depressions for the spindle mounting positions). I'm sorry, I've not done any work on this deck, so I am not familiar with it.
I assume that the middle spindle was too far forward so the gap between the rotating blades was too large. On the other hand if it was a inch it would seem like the blade would have hit the front baffles on the machine. Also probably means that there are more decks somewhere in th USA that are off....manf defects.

Happy Frog
06-22-2008, 03:12 PM
ok, where about do you think ill be able to find one??? Thanks!!!!

Harbor Freight Tools sells a set of those for cheap.

lawnpro724
06-22-2008, 03:59 PM
WOW ... and they say Toro is suppose to be the best ?? Yeah right !! I'll stick with my Dixon, thank you !!

Everything I run is Toro from the 21" to the 60" and everything in between and I have never had a problem with the cut or anything else. I' ll take my Toro's over your Dixon any day of the week.

Green Team Landscaping
06-22-2008, 05:17 PM
try turning up the power of the mower to get the blades going faster. my scag does that, but only when i go too fast and the grass is long

Roger
06-22-2008, 07:32 PM
I assume that the middle spindle was too far forward so the gap between the rotating blades was too large. On the other hand if it was a inch it would seem like the blade would have hit the front baffles on the machine. ....

This is exactly my thought. An inch in any direction would have created an interference with baffles (front, back, side), or other blades. There would have to be many other parts, not just wrong hole placements, not in the right place either. Clearances are not tight, but certainly much tighter than a one inch misplacement of a middle spindle.

Something does not sound right about the dealer explanation. There has to be more to the story.

Dillon, can you post images of the bad deck? We have seen your shots of the bad mowing result, but I'm much more interested in seeing the deck unit self, and where the misplaced spindle was located.

puppypaws
06-22-2008, 08:05 PM
ok, where about do you think ill be able to find one??? Thanks!!!!

Been using these for years on everything from 450 hp tractors to anything else with an oil filter, you can get to.

http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/kd3149.html

You can look at these also for different applications!

http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/ksearch-results.html?section_id=ksearch-results&txt_name=on&txt_desc=on&txt_code=on&txtsearchstring=oil+filter+wrench&x=23&y=8

Lbilawncare
06-22-2008, 11:27 PM
Are you sure you need to change the Hydraulic Oil Filter so soon? I understand the engine oil filters, but why the hydro filter?

A-Land
06-22-2008, 11:51 PM
You know to me it seems like the engine is just not revving all the way. When I cut with hearing protection on, it's tough to figure out when the machine is at full throttle. There is enough play in the throttle cable it could have easily been installed wrong, and that would somewhat explain the sound differences you could hear. If my scag isn't turned up... it cuts like that.

MarcSmith
06-23-2008, 06:30 AM
dillon

if the cap style oil filters wrenches don't work you can always use the oil filter "channel locks" http://inpcars.com/oil-filter-wrenches/channellock-cl.jpg or the last ditch effort and the old screw driver through the side of the filter...

But I agree with the other comment that 25 hours on hydro oils seems very early...on the Scags, they don't recommend hydro service until 500 hours.

puppypaws
06-23-2008, 07:54 AM
dillon

if the cap style oil filters wrenches don't work you can always use the oil filter "channel locks" http://inpcars.com/oil-filter-wrenches/channellock-cl.jpg or the last ditch effort and the old screw driver through the side of the filter...

But I agree with the other comment that 25 hours on hydro oils seems very early...on the Scags, they don't recommend hydro service until 500 hours.

That is the exact one; I use on a Super Z oil filter, you can get to it with anything. I can change motor oil in 5 minutes with the drain pipe extending out the way it does on my Super Z, open the drain, spin the filter off, put new one on, close the drain and pour in 2 qt's of oil, finished. The hydro filter can be a great deal more aggravating unless you have a plan, very little room to work.

MO LAWNCARE
06-23-2008, 10:33 AM
just pop a screw driver thru it . thats how i get the hydro filter off my toro.

DillonsLawnCare
06-23-2008, 06:43 PM
I dont have to old deck anymore. the put a new one on. and their explanation does sound as if it were false. i dont know what the problem was or whatever was causing the bad cut.

thanks for the replies on the oil filter wrench.

I cut with my mower all day tomorrow, so ill let you know how it goes.

thanks!

Elks
06-25-2008, 12:32 AM
might be that kawasaki. My old husqvarna had one and it had problems all the time.

DillonsLawnCare
07-03-2008, 10:26 PM
ok, so my mower is still leaving a bad cut. it doesn't do the same thing it was last time, but this time its just an overall scraggily cut. tons of stragglers.

and the cage on top of the engine keeps coming off. like one of the bars keeps coming off. it may be that kawisaki. i think that theres an extra vibration somewhere in the engine causing that to come loose.

idk what to do about the situation. need help..

thanks

Horsepower Lawns
07-03-2008, 10:58 PM
I know what the dealer said, but did they really give you a new deck?

Can they get a mower like yours out on one of your lawns and see how it cuts?

Did the deck ever get the right rake to it?

puppypaws
07-03-2008, 11:06 PM
ok, so my mower is still leaving a bad cut. it doesn't do the same thing it was last time, but this time its just an overall scraggily cut. tons of stragglers.

and the cage on top of the engine keeps coming off. like one of the bars keeps coming off. it may be that kawisaki. i think that theres an extra vibration somewhere in the engine causing that to come loose.

idk what to do about the situation. need help..

thanks

I don't know how many hours you have on the mower but it appears you got a Le-Mon. I doubt seriously you will get any satisfaction out of Toro but I would go through the chain of command once more very quickly and give them a set time to resolve your problem.

I realize you have an attorney in the family and everyone talks lawsuit but this will be a long drawn out aggravating affair.

We have several TV stations in this area that loves to jump on this type thing to help the consumer. They get excellent results because no one likes bad publicity. I can tell you they would love to jump on a case such as yours because they would feel as though a young person was being taken advantage of.

Did you not say your mother was an attorney? She should know the quickest and most effective way of applying pressure. I feel assured a TV station will get the best results in the shortest period of time. I could take a young man such as yourself with this problem and TV coverage of a story put together that would have Toro crying for you, much less the average public.

DillonsLawnCare
07-03-2008, 11:07 PM
they said they gave me a new deck shell, so i guess the old spindles are still on there. i guess?? i dont know what a new deck shell is to them....

idk if they would or not.

the deck still looks higher in the front. i may need to fix that.

but it has vaccuum. i can see the grass being pulled toward it, but its not that much vaccuum to jump around about.

idk what it is.

i thought id get some help from you guys on what to do before i said anything else...

thanks

DillonsLawnCare
07-03-2008, 11:10 PM
yes, my mom is an attorney and my grandpa. it has 33 hours on it. tires still smell new.

taking it to a tv station would be good, but idk if thats the first thing i'd do.

idk....

puppypaws
07-03-2008, 11:17 PM
yes, my mom is an attorney and my grandpa. it has 33 hours on it. tires still smell new.

taking it to a tv station would be good, but idk if thats the first thing i'd do.

idk....

Give them the opportunity to satisfy you, if you cannot get what you feel is right have your mother talk with a TV station, they will become the mediator between you and Toro. They would much rather do whatever is necessary to get you satisfied than to have negative publicity with their company name involved.

DillonsLawnCare
07-03-2008, 11:55 PM
thats true. ill keep testing this mower out and i may have them take it home and cut with it themselves. cause one of the guys said he has 12 acres of fescue that he cuts at 4/12 inches, and at 4 1/2 on mine, the cut is the worst. so ill see what happens.

if it doesnt get resolved, ill take it to the media.

my dad said the same thing.

"take it to the news and say this and that. cause toro will look extremely unprofessional if they sold a defective mower to a 15 year old kid who is actually working and being entrepreneurial while his friends are sitting at home playing video games. trying to make some money as well."

thats what my dad said.

so, if it goes far enough, then ill take it to the media.

thanks everyone for the replies.

puppypaws
07-04-2008, 12:33 AM
my dad said the same thing.

"take it to the news and say this and that. cause toro will look extremely unprofessional if they sold a defective mower to a 15 year old kid who is actually working and being entrepreneurial while his friends are sitting at home playing video games. trying to make some money as well."

thats what my dad said.



See, your dad already had it figured out. I understand most kids assume their parents are out of touch, but I'll promise as you get older your parents become much more intelligent. When kids go through their 20's parents become smarter each year and by the time you are 30; they are into the genius category.

BeautifulBlooms
07-04-2008, 01:04 PM
It looks like it might be under the front caster wheel, maybe back down the tire pressure in the casters and see if that doesnt help. A really firm caster wheel will actually collapse the grass, a softer wheel might allow the blades to be vacuumed up better.

DillonsLawnCare
07-17-2008, 11:06 AM
Ok, so i good friend of mine came over yesterday to cut with the mower and see if it was still not cutting right.

he cut with it and it leaves about a six inch swath of pushed over somewhat cut grass in the middle of the deck. theres an airflow/vaccuum problem somewhere.

Now he had bought his mower from the same place i got mine and it had the turbo force deck on it. He was extremely pleased and he is sort of siding with the dealer on that fact that THEY WILL FIX IT!! its been to the dealer 4 times since may 18.

its not cutting right. he told me to take it to another dealer and get all caught up on all my yards. getting caught up on all my yards doesnt work that way. theres always something to cut.

i dont know what to do.

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

THanks

ALC-GregH
07-17-2008, 11:12 AM
can a turbo force deck be put on the mower? Maybe tell them to change the entire deck for a new one.

jackrabit
07-17-2008, 11:26 AM
trade it on a Dixie Chopper and end your cut issues

tb8100
07-17-2008, 11:56 AM
trade it on a Dixie Chopper and end your cut issues

or a Bad Boy!

More realistically though, ask how much more a T-Force deck would be or see if they'll swap them out for free for your trouble. Or just put an eXmark Ultracut on there. :waving:

DillonsLawnCare
07-17-2008, 01:38 PM
ill see what they can do. Should i call them and let them know or write them a letter?

DillonsLawnCare
07-17-2008, 01:52 PM
i called them and they want to come out to one of my accounts and watch me cut with it and assess the situation.

What should i do?

SNAPPER MAN
07-17-2008, 03:35 PM
Put it on the height where it cuts the crappiest and tell them it cuts like that all the time.

A-Land
07-17-2008, 04:08 PM
Yeah do it and do it as soon as possible. If they can swap the deck out, have them do it. Once they have they deck out they can compare it to another deck of the same kind. If there's a difference somewhere, obviously they should be covered by Toro for their work considering it's Toro's problem.

MJB
07-17-2008, 05:59 PM
Also yhave them bring out a new mower the same deck so they can compare and see something is wrong wwith yours.

DillonsLawnCare
07-20-2008, 06:39 PM
im having my dealer come out tomorrow to see this crappy cut. ill let you guys know how it goes.

i dont know what to do if they want to take it back to the shop. or what?!?!

my parents will be at work. what should i do?

A-Land
07-20-2008, 06:49 PM
Let them take it and get a loaner w/ a better cut.

DillonsLawnCare
07-20-2008, 07:07 PM
this will be the third time that they've worked on it. last time they gave me a loaner and they had my mower for over 3 weeks in the shop.

A-Land
07-20-2008, 07:29 PM
Well in the time being having a machine that works should keep you happy.... if you get a good loaner just tell them they arn't getting it back until they deal with your machine.

Firefighter337
07-20-2008, 07:51 PM
Did you call toro?

enigma322
03-06-2009, 04:31 PM
First of all -- Dillion's Lawncare -- If you are still having problems with your machine, drive it up to my dealership and we will fix it. We take great pride in our work. We are Toro MASTER dealers, Briggs, Kawi, Kohler and Tecumseh EXPERT dealers. We sell TORO, Snapper, Bobcat, Scag and Wright. :cool2:

Anyway -- one of the biggest problems with quality of cut issues is that the average landscaper does not describe it properly and the average lawnmower mechanic has no place to cut grass. When we have a problem such as yours, we take the machine to state property that is cut every two months and run the balls off the machine. The SCAG and the TORO are the only machines that come close to cutting this grass. Bobcat's, Exmarks with their simple deck design's barely make it through. And please don't talk about Dixon. They have so many design flaws, that their crankshaft melt from electrolysis.

I wanted to address several of you experts:

TB8100 -- "buy a bad boy" -- why because they have a cool name or a cool spokesperson. There over 55 names in the industry. In another year 44 will no longer exist. Bad Boy will be one. Have fun getting parts.:confused:

MarcSmith & Dillions Lawncare -- You the dealer to do free things or give free machine. How much do you think he made on the sale? This is not like planting a bush were you mark it up 200% and then charge for installing. He was probably lucky to make 10% and that was not including the expense in warehouse space, insurance, assembly, trash removal, etc. I love how everyone knows so much about how to run a dealership. Try it some time!!:hammerhead:

roger: I think the best thing the dealer did was put on a new deck skin -- if in fact he thought the spindles were not tightened drilled properly, the belt may be slipping, not enough belt wrap etc. -- however, I believe the biggest problem is with the deck pitch was has been discussed at nausea.:cry:

frenshprince 94 -- "lemon" what a joke -- landscapers all want to cry about "lemons" as if they are lawyers -- yet 90% are two lazy or illiterate to open the maintenance book:sleeping:

puppy paws -- "don't worry about changing hydro filter in 25 hours" Oh this is rich -- just so you know I have an expert certification in Hydraulic design and implementation -- you are talking out your arse. The first filter change is THE MOST IMPORTANT there are always small amounts of debris that need to taken from the system. The same applies to the engine as well. Oh I guess you are one of those guys that bangs out your air filter 50-60 times.;)


this is the first time I have ever posted. I was actually googling something else and got caught up with this. 2009 will be a difficult year for all small business -- I wish you all well and cut your dealer a break. :usflag:

JimQ
03-06-2009, 04:42 PM
wow.

Welcome to Lawnsite enigma.

You having a bad day?

:drinkup:

Q

lawnboy2068
03-06-2009, 05:32 PM
First of all -- Dillion's Lawncare -- If you are still having problems with your machine, drive it up to my dealership and we will fix it. We take great pride in our work. We are Toro MASTER dealers, Briggs, Kawi, Kohler and Tecumseh EXPERT dealers. We sell TORO, Snapper, Bobcat, Scag and Wright. :cool2:

Anyway -- one of the biggest problems with quality of cut issues is that the average landscaper does not describe it properly and the average lawnmower mechanic has no place to cut grass. When we have a problem such as yours, we take the machine to state property that is cut every two months and run the balls off the machine. The SCAG and the TORO are the only machines that come close to cutting this grass. Bobcat's, Exmarks with their simple deck design's barely make it through. And please don't talk about Dixon. They have so many design flaws, that their crankshaft melt from electrolysis.

I wanted to address several of you experts:

TB8100 -- "buy a bad boy" -- why because they have a cool name or a cool spokesperson. There over 55 names in the industry. In another year 44 will no longer exist. Bad Boy will be one. Have fun getting parts.:confused:

MarcSmith & Dillions Lawncare -- You the dealer to do free things or give free machine. How much do you think he made on the sale? This is not like planting a bush were you mark it up 200% and then charge for installing. He was probably lucky to make 10% and that was not including the expense in warehouse space, insurance, assembly, trash removal, etc. I love how everyone knows so much about how to run a dealership. Try it some time!!:hammerhead:

roger: I think the best thing the dealer did was put on a new deck skin -- if in fact he thought the spindles were not tightened drilled properly, the belt may be slipping, not enough belt wrap etc. -- however, I believe the biggest problem is with the deck pitch was has been discussed at nausea.:cry:

frenshprince 94 -- "lemon" what a joke -- landscapers all want to cry about "lemons" as if they are lawyers -- yet 90% are two lazy or illiterate to open the maintenance book:sleeping:

puppy paws -- "don't worry about changing hydro filter in 25 hours" Oh this is rich -- just so you know I have an expert certification in Hydraulic design and implementation -- you are talking out your arse. The first filter change is THE MOST IMPORTANT there are always small amounts of debris that need to taken from the system. The same applies to the engine as well. Oh I guess you are one of those guys that bangs out your air filter 50-60 times.;)


this is the first time I have ever posted. I was actually googling something else and got caught up with this. 2009 will be a difficult year for all small business -- I wish you all well and cut your dealer a break. :usflag:

Well Said! I Like to deal with dealers like you. If you were closer I would definitely come buy as I have groundmasters and z masters. To have a dealer that knows his stuff is like winning the lottery. Hang in there and good luck to you this year!

James

puppypaws
03-06-2009, 07:36 PM
puppy paws -- "don't worry about changing hydro filter in 25 hours" Oh this is rich -- just so you know I have an expert certification in Hydraulic design and implementation -- you are talking out your arse. The first filter change is THE MOST IMPORTANT there are always small amounts of debris that need to taken from the system. The same applies to the engine as well. Oh I guess you are one of those guys that bangs out your air filter 50-60 times.;)


this is the first time I have ever posted. I was actually googling something else and got caught up with this. 2009 will be a difficult year for all small business -- I wish you all well and cut your dealer a break. :usflag:



also, its got about 25 hours on it and i have not changed to hydraulic oil filter yet, cause they put it in such a tight space, i cant get it off. ive tried big pliers, and an oil filter remover( the one with the strap), and nothing will fit. if any of you have any suggestions, please feel free to give me your 2 cents.

"enigma322", I am thinking you may have ridden the short bus while attending school. You are doing a great deal of talking, but I would be one to say; it is not very creditable. The logic bringing me to this conclusion was when I read your inability to amass certain statements posted by different people. I think you could elevate yourself in life by not sanctioning your mouth to bypass the brains thought process.

STIHL GUY
03-07-2009, 11:00 AM
try some gator high lifts

zman2307
03-08-2009, 12:41 AM
First of all -- Dillion's Lawncare -- If you are still having problems with your machine, drive it up to my dealership and we will fix it. We take great pride in our work. We are Toro MASTER dealers, Briggs, Kawi, Kohler and Tecumseh EXPERT dealers. We sell TORO, Snapper, Bobcat, Scag and Wright. :cool2:

Anyway -- one of the biggest problems with quality of cut issues is that the average landscaper does not describe it properly and the average lawnmower mechanic has no place to cut grass. When we have a problem such as yours, we take the machine to state property that is cut every two months and run the balls off the machine. The SCAG and the TORO are the only machines that come close to cutting this grass. Bobcat's, Exmarks with their simple deck design's barely make it through. And please don't talk about Dixon. They have so many design flaws, that their crankshaft melt from electrolysis.

I wanted to address several of you experts:

TB8100 -- "buy a bad boy" -- why because they have a cool name or a cool spokesperson. There over 55 names in the industry. In another year 44 will no longer exist. Bad Boy will be one. Have fun getting parts.:confused:

MarcSmith & Dillions Lawncare -- You the dealer to do free things or give free machine. How much do you think he made on the sale? This is not like planting a bush were you mark it up 200% and then charge for installing. He was probably lucky to make 10% and that was not including the expense in warehouse space, insurance, assembly, trash removal, etc. I love how everyone knows so much about how to run a dealership. Try it some time!!:hammerhead:

roger: I think the best thing the dealer did was put on a new deck skin -- if in fact he thought the spindles were not tightened drilled properly, the belt may be slipping, not enough belt wrap etc. -- however, I believe the biggest problem is with the deck pitch was has been discussed at nausea.:cry:

frenshprince 94 -- "lemon" what a joke -- landscapers all want to cry about "lemons" as if they are lawyers -- yet 90% are two lazy or illiterate to open the maintenance book:sleeping:

puppy paws -- "don't worry about changing hydro filter in 25 hours" Oh this is rich -- just so you know I have an expert certification in Hydraulic design and implementation -- you are talking out your arse. The first filter change is THE MOST IMPORTANT there are always small amounts of debris that need to taken from the system. The same applies to the engine as well. Oh I guess you are one of those guys that bangs out your air filter 50-60 times.;)


this is the first time I have ever posted. I was actually googling something else and got caught up with this. 2009 will be a difficult year for all small business -- I wish you all well and cut your dealer a break. :usflag:

HA HA. 44 manufacturers will be gone within a year, huh? You're a real bright one, I can see.

puppypaws
03-08-2009, 09:09 AM
HA HA. 44 manufacturers will be gone within a year, huh? You're a real bright one, I can see.

He must be throwing junk out to stir things up a little, there aren't many people ignorant enough to make a number of those statements.

DillonsLawnCare
03-08-2009, 11:00 AM
wow... this is an old thread....

For any of you who didn't hear the final result of my Toro Z-master issues, here is it:

After taking the mower back for a total of SEVEN times, they finally refunded my money.

1st visit: Addressed the cutting issue. They gave me new blades.

2nd visit: Addressed the cutting issue. One of my caster tires was low.

3rd visit: Addressed the cutting issue. Tweaked the deck.

4th visit: Addressed the cutting issue. Replaced the deck. Gave me a loaner.

5th visit: Addressed the cutting issue. Kept my mower in the shop, and gave me a loaner which was the exact model i purchased. what happened.... The loaner which was the same mower i had, cut the same way, with the same problem. So apparently toro has a major deck flaw in all of their 7 gauge decks.

6th visit: Addressed the cutting issue with a lawyer present. The offered to refund all of my money except for $1500. So i would have to pay $1500 for a mower i wouldn't own anymore.

7th visit: Addressed the cutting issue once again. They offered for their best mechanic to come out on my property and cut with it and diagnose the problem. They adjusted the pitch of the deck to where the deck sat at a perfect 180 degrees. Completely level. The mechanic cut with it, and saw the problem first hand. He agreed with me that there was a problem, and HE COULD NOT FIX IT. Toro had told me that if the problem could not be fixed by one of their trained mechanics, then refunding would be an option.

So, they refunded all of my money, and i am happy to say that i will never do business there again! What should have taken a week, ended up taking 3 months to solve a problem that i knew, and they knew very well they couldn't fix. I ended up taking my $3000 down payment, and buying a used Scag walk-behind.

We had also posted a bad complaint on the better business bureau before they offered the refund our money. It's funny because they had told us, " If you take the complaint off of the better business bureau, then we'll refund your money." If only i would have posted that complaint sooner.......................

Thanks!

DillonsLawnCare
03-08-2009, 11:07 AM
oh, and there are such things as lemons in the lawn and landscaping industry, enigma322.

For every piece of machinery built, anywhere, there is bound to be a slip up. You are confusing two different valid points. For example:

John doe's mower stopped working. He is an old man who is mechanically challenged. He thinks that he has a lemon. He raises hell to walmart for selling him a bad machine and threatens to sue. Soon afterwards finds out that there was no gas in the tank.

Example 2: (The real "lemon" case) My mower's deck had all the holes for the spindles to mount in, drilled an inch off. Causing strange noises, and possibly bad cutting. Thats a lemon.

Get it right.

lilweeds
03-08-2009, 11:38 AM
Don't know if 44 s the right number, but there will be many of the smaller companies that will not be here next year.

puppypaws
03-08-2009, 01:27 PM
We had also posted a bad complaint on the better business bureau before they offered the refund our money. It's funny because they had told us, " If you take the complaint off of the better business bureau, then we'll refund your money." If only i would have posted that complaint sooner.......................

Thanks!

I've never had to do this, remove a complaint from the BBB, what is the process? You are saying before they would refund your money for a faulty product; they required you to remove a negative complaint against Toro's company. Is this correct?

DillonsLawnCare
03-08-2009, 10:04 PM
They would not refund all of my money AT FIRST for the reason of a "Faulty Product"

They then agreed to refund my money, but i had to remove the complaint from the BBB in order to get my money, and they had to have hard proof that we removed it. So i took a screen shot of the page where it said, " Blah Blah this has been removed", and then faxed it to them. I may have led you to believe something else... my bad.

Im pretty sure that the BBB complaint against toro put them over the edge.

To remove a complaint, I'm pretty sure you have to say it was resolved, then get an administrator to oversee it, then remove it.

joshco84
03-08-2009, 10:25 PM
So apparently toro has a major deck flaw in all of their 7 gauge decks.



This is not true at all, i have the same exact mower and it is great. The old style toro deck is great and has been used for many years. Second only to exmark ultracut deck in my opinion.

There may have been a problem with a few of them, but not all of their decks.

DillonsLawnCare
03-08-2009, 10:43 PM
What kind of grass do you cut??

I noticed it less in bermuda, and more in fescue!

The grass in kansas has got to be different.

joshco84
03-08-2009, 11:36 PM
actually i mow a lot of fescue and bermuda both. They are the main two types of grass here for nicer yards. And last year i had lots of very healthy fescue with the insane amount of rain we had.

Mine actually cuts fescue, whether great grass or thin, better than anything else.

puppypaws
03-08-2009, 11:39 PM
They would not refund all of my money AT FIRST for the reason of a "Faulty Product"

They then agreed to refund my money, but i had to remove the complaint from the BBB in order to get my money, and they had to have hard proof that we removed it. So i took a screen shot of the page where it said, " Blah Blah this has been removed", and then faxed it to them. I may have led you to believe something else... my bad.

Im pretty sure that the BBB complaint against toro put them over the edge.



What this is called in legal terms is "blackmail", and was performed by the Toro company representatives. The meaning of "blackmail" in verb form is, "obtain through threats."

They were threatening not to refund money which was legally yours due to a defective product sold by their company. This is defined in legal terms as "extortion" and is performed by coercing you into removing a truthful and legitimate complaint that could hurt them financially.

The definition of "extort" in verb form is to "obtain through intimidation." They intimidated you by saying they would not refund your money until you removed what they considered to be a truthful (but potentially harmful), complaint submitted legitimately to the BBB.

This is no different than telling you they are willing to pay a certain amount of money to keep this unprincipled (but true) information from going public.

This goes on everyday, especially in government where truth is bought out on a regular basis. Ever wonder why our country is in this economic disaster? I believe the problem can be defined as corruption.

Your mother is an attorney, let her read this post, then ask her if there is any validity to what I wrote?

DillonsLawnCare
03-09-2009, 09:41 AM
actually i mow a lot of fescue and bermuda both. They are the main two types of grass here for nicer yards. And last year i had lots of very healthy fescue with the insane amount of rain we had.

Mine actually cuts fescue, whether great grass or thin, better than anything else.

Oh, Nice! Glad to hear that you didn't get ripped like i did. It's a good mower!

What model, size deck, and engine do you have on your toro?

And what did you pay for it, if you don't mind me asking?

DillonsLawnCare
03-09-2009, 09:44 AM
What this is called in legal terms is "blackmail", and was performed by the Toro company representatives. The meaning of "blackmail" in verb form is, "obtain through threats."

They were threatening not to refund money which was legally yours due to a defective product sold by their company. This is defined in legal terms as "extortion" and is performed by coercing you into removing a truthful and legitimate complaint that could hurt them financially.

The definition of "extort" in verb form is to "obtain through intimidation." They intimidated you by saying they would not refund your money until you removed what they considered to be a truthful (but potentially harmful), complaint submitted legitimately to the BBB.

This is no different than telling you they are willing to pay a certain amount of money to keep this unprincipled (but true) information from going public.

This goes on everyday, especially in government where truth is bought out on a regular basis. Ever wonder why our country is in this economic disaster? I believe the problem can be defined as corruption.

Your mother is an attorney, let her read this post, then ask her if there is any validity to what I wrote?

I'll let her read it. That is very true, and i didn't even think of it that way. Toro needs to watch out what they do... they're gunna screw with the wrong guy, and he's gunna take it all the way....

Thanks!!!!

joshco84
03-09-2009, 10:05 PM
Oh, Nice! Glad to hear that you didn't get ripped like i did. It's a good mower!

What model, size deck, and engine do you have on your toro?

And what did you pay for it, if you don't mind me asking?


its a 52 inch with the 27 horse Kohler. It is the old style machine, not a turbo force.

And i cant tell you my price because my brother in law is a toro dealer. Lets just say it was a good price.

DillonsLawnCare
03-09-2009, 10:55 PM
its a 52 inch with the 27 horse Kohler. It is the old style machine, not a turbo force.

And i cant tell you my price because my brother in law is a toro dealer. Lets just say it was a good price.

So was it the 2008 model with the 7 gauge deck, that said 7 gauge on it??

joshco84
03-10-2009, 08:23 PM
Yup it was ordered and delivered to the dealer in may or june of 08. And has the stickers you are talking about.

driver5
03-10-2009, 09:39 PM
wow... this is an old thread....

For any of you who didn't hear the final result of my Toro Z-master issues, here is it:

After taking the mower back for a total of SEVEN times, they finally refunded my money.

1st visit: Addressed the cutting issue. They gave me new blades.

2nd visit: Addressed the cutting issue. One of my caster tires was low.

3rd visit: Addressed the cutting issue. Tweaked the deck.

4th visit: Addressed the cutting issue. Replaced the deck. Gave me a loaner.

5th visit: Addressed the cutting issue. Kept my mower in the shop, and gave me a loaner which was the exact model i purchased. what happened.... The loaner which was the same mower i had, cut the same way, with the same problem. So apparently toro has a major deck flaw in all of their 7 gauge decks.

6th visit: Addressed the cutting issue with a lawyer present. The offered to refund all of my money except for $1500. So i would have to pay $1500 for a mower i wouldn't own anymore.

7th visit: Addressed the cutting issue once again. They offered for their best mechanic to come out on my property and cut with it and diagnose the problem. They adjusted the pitch of the deck to where the deck sat at a perfect 180 degrees. Completely level. The mechanic cut with it, and saw the problem first hand. He agreed with me that there was a problem, and HE COULD NOT FIX IT. Toro had told me that if the problem could not be fixed by one of their trained mechanics, then refunding would be an option.

So, they refunded all of my money, and i am happy to say that i will never do business there again! What should have taken a week, ended up taking 3 months to solve a problem that i knew, and they knew very well they couldn't fix. I ended up taking my $3000 down payment, and buying a used Scag walk-behind.

We had also posted a bad complaint on the better business bureau before they offered the refund our money. It's funny because they had told us, " If you take the complaint off of the better business bureau, then we'll refund your money." If only i would have posted that complaint sooner.......................

Thanks!


Question.... was your dealer Brentwood Lawnmower???

brucec32
03-11-2009, 01:31 PM
It looks pretty shaggy, but it's nothing a good barber couldn't fix. OH wait, you meant a cutting problem with the mower! : )

DillonsLawnCare
03-11-2009, 07:10 PM
Question.... was your dealer Brentwood Lawnmower???

NONONONO!!!!! Brentwood lawnmower is a very reputable place!!

The dealer that sucks a$$, where i purchased the mower, is Southern Lawn Equipment. SLE.

DillonsLawnCare
03-11-2009, 07:12 PM
Yup it was ordered and delivered to the dealer in may or june of 08. And has the stickers you are talking about.

For some reason i still think we are talking about two different mowing decks....... o.O

Post some pics if you can......

lawnpro724
03-11-2009, 08:37 PM
My Z 500 60" 27hp cuts perfect and couldn't ask for a better mower and my 48" 15hp kaw Turbo Force walkbehind cuts perfect as well. I'm not sure what the proplem is your having since both of my mowers cut great. I'm glad to see you got your money back and bought something you like.

lawnpro724
03-11-2009, 08:49 PM
After reading your first post and seeing your pics I know whats wrong. I had this exact problem with another mower not a Toro but doesn't really matter since it can happen with any brand even Toro. The deck serial number was mismatched with the deck calling for the wrong size blades to be installed. I had this problem with another mower and it was doing the same thing your mower was so complained to my dealer and they said it was the blades. I had them order another set for the mower only to have the same problem. I decided to check the blade clearance on the deck only to find there was more room between the blades than needed. Then I measured the deck only to find that is a 50" deck but the serial number indicated blades for a 42". I ordered another set of blades only this time for a 50" deck and problem solved. The first time I mowed with it after installing the new blades it cut perfect.

puppypaws
03-11-2009, 09:53 PM
After reading your first post and seeing your pics I know whats wrong. I had this exact problem with another mower not a Toro but doesn't really matter since it can happen with any brand even Toro. The deck serial number was mismatched with the deck calling for the wrong size blades to be installed. I had this problem with another mower and it was doing the same thing your mower was so complained to my dealer and they said it was the blades. I had them order another set for the mower only to have the same problem. I decided to check the blade clearance on the deck only to find there was more room between the blades than needed. Then I measured the deck only to find that is a 50" deck but the serial number indicated blades for a 42". I ordered another set of blades only this time for a 50" deck and problem solved. The first time I mowed with it after installing the new blades it cut perfect.

That is really strange, but we would all say anything is possible!

lifetree
03-11-2009, 10:03 PM
... The dealer that sucks ... is Southern Lawn Equipment. SLE.

Good information to have ... I was actually thinking about going up there to check them out because they are a bid dealer on ebay !! Thanks for the warning.

weasel
03-12-2009, 12:00 AM
If ever in the East Tn. area avoid a dealer up there Boones Creek Outdoor Power. Wow this guy is a crook. He sells Scag and Redmax

driver5
03-12-2009, 12:13 AM
NONONONO!!!!! Brentwood lawnmower is a very reputable place!!

The dealer that sucks a$$, where i purchased the mower, is Southern Lawn Equipment. SLE.



SHEW!!!! ( wipes sweat from forehead) i was beginning to wonder. Because Brentwood LMS is a supurb place! Those guys are always very helpfull. And ive spent a lot of money in that shop. they have been on me for years to Buy Toro.. But ive insist on Exmark. And they just shake their heads at me.


Why didnt you buy from them instead of that redneck shop ?? I know of the shop your talking about. ive been in it before.. wasnt impressed.

grassman1973
06-14-2010, 02:27 AM
wow thus could be way out there but i had a fellow with one blade on backwards not too sure about the toro but this isnint the first ive seen it and was leaving the exact same marks your showing the last time was when a guy brought his mower form a tunee up and the dealer put it on wrong just a try