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View Full Version : ZTR Coices Toro Scag Hustler Bad Boy


1st Choice
05-28-2008, 07:18 PM
Looking to purchase a new ZTR and have 4 choices in my area would like some feed back from More Seasoned Mowers . My Choices Are as follows:
Toro Z400 with 21 Kaw 48 In Deck, Tiger Cub 19 Kaw 48 in Deck, Hustler Mini Z with 23 Kaw 52 in Deck, And a Bad Boy 48 in pup with a 30 Kohler. give me some feed back and opinions Please

Thanks

RTR Landscaping
05-28-2008, 07:43 PM
I cast a vote for the Scag Tiger Cub. All of my mowers are Scags. I own 2-Tiger Cubs and really love these mowers.All the mowers listed are good.Just make sure your dealer will back you with parts and service after the sale.All my Scags cut very well in all types of grasses wet or dry. Let us know what you get and good luck!

Mike Blevins
05-28-2008, 08:15 PM
Scag Tiger Cub. Proven mowers,excellent cut with the veloctiy plus deck. The 19 kawasaki is a great engine. All the others have something to offer but the Scag has more with the variuos types of grasses that it can cut well. Wet grass don't stand a chance either. "Simply the Best" Is all I can say. :usflag:

MJB
05-28-2008, 08:46 PM
I would try to get a demo of the Scag and compare with the Badboy Pup. Let us know the results.

1st Choice
05-28-2008, 08:57 PM
Well already demoed all four b4 this post here is what i think....
Toro - 2nd best ride 2nd best cut 2nd Best Price
Scag- best cut worst ride 3nd Best price
Hustler- best ride third best cut Highest price
Bad Boy- 3rd best ride Not Sure on Cut best price..

Warranties are all about the same.. I'm curious about dependability

tb8100
05-28-2008, 09:22 PM
Well already demoed all four b4 this post here is what i think....
Toro - 2nd best ride 2nd best cut 2nd Best Price
Scag- best cut worst ride 3nd Best price
Hustler- best ride third best cut Highest price
Bad Boy- 3rd best ride Not Sure on Cut best price..

Warranties are all about the same.. I'm curious about dependability

The Toro Z400 is the promo version of the 400 series, meaning it tops out at 8.5mph, has the ball bearing spindles (which aren't bad, but they're not the tapered roller bearing spindles like the Scag), and it has pneumatic tires. One thing I don't like about this model is that you set the deck height by hand- no foot assist.

The Scag Tiger Cub comes standard with the tapered roller bearing spindles and semi-pneumatic tires, hence the bad ride quality. Flat-frees beat you to death. It's a 10mph mower.

The Mini Z has a great engine, and I'm sure also has pneumatic tires, hence the great ride (and it may have had flex forks and the flex seat?). It tops out at 13mph, no? So the speed is good. However, it uses cast aluminum ball-bearing spindles, which on paper aren't as strong as cast iron spindles. I don't know about the reliability of them, but spec against spec, the Hustler doesn't have as strong of spindles.

The Bad Boy Pup has easily the best engine option out of all of those. It comes standard with pneumatic tires, so it has a good ride. It's a 10mph mower. You should demo it and see how it cuts compared to the others.

What's the Pup, about $6400? The Tiger Cub sells for $7000. And the Toro at $6100 or so. What is the Hustler selling for? You said it's more than the Tiger Cub. You should look at the Bad Boy Lightning. You can get into the Lightning 26hp liquid cooled Kawasaki/52" for $7500, and it's the 14mph unit with 4 wheel suspension and the suspension seat. It would easily have the best ride out of all those you demoed.

puppypaws
05-28-2008, 10:17 PM
What's the Pup, about $6400? The Tiger Cub sells for $7000. And the Toro at $6100 or so. What is the Hustler selling for? You said it's more than the Tiger Cub. You should look at the Bad Boy Lightning. You can get into the Lightning 26hp liquid cooled Kawasaki/52" for $7500, and it's the 14mph unit with 4 wheel suspension and the suspension seat. It would easily have the best ride out of all those you demoed.

I want argue the cut but I will say the Lightening will ride better and cut circles around the other three. The difference in productivity would be tremendous and in this day and time you need to look at how much grass you can cut with a gallon of fuel, be it diesel or gas.

The more grass cut in 1 hr. means more money in your pocket from several angles. The most productivity per hour relates to more money from the amount of grass cut, the lesser amount of fuel used to cut more grass and the lesser amount of repairs and maintenance while cutting more grass.

If you are able to utilize speed in your cutting operation it definitely puts more profit in your pocket. There are a number of people that realize the more grass you cut in an hour the more money will be made. When you now add the difference of the amount of grass you can cut with a gallon of fuel and the more grass you are able to cut with less wear and tear than a mower which cuts 1/3 slower, all this adds up more than people realize.

1st Choice
05-28-2008, 10:33 PM
my only complaint about the Bad Boy is how high the seat is i do alot of residential lawns .. trees and so forth to get under... another major factor for me is the interest rates available.. Skag 0-1.9 36 months Toro 3.9 @36 months and the Hustler and Bad Boy don't have any Special rates... very good point about time is Money.. less time in Shop= more money my toro dealer offers a unit if yours in in shop more than 1 hr so nice benefit..

tb8100
05-28-2008, 11:39 PM
The Toro Z400 is the promo version of the 400 series, meaning it tops out at 8.5mph, has the ball bearing spindles (which aren't bad, but they're not the tapered roller bearing spindles like the Scag), and it has pneumatic tires. One thing I don't like about this model is that you set the deck height by hand- no foot assist.

The Scag Tiger Cub comes standard with the tapered roller bearing spindles and semi-pneumatic tires, hence the bad ride quality. Flat-frees beat you to death. It's a 10mph mower.

The Mini Z has a great engine, and I'm sure also has pneumatic tires, hence the great ride (and it may have had flex forks and the flex seat?). It tops out at 13mph, no? So the speed is good. However, it uses cast aluminum ball-bearing spindles, which on paper aren't as strong as cast iron spindles. I don't know about the reliability of them, but spec against spec, the Hustler doesn't have as strong of spindles.

The Bad Boy Pup has easily the best engine option out of all of those. It comes standard with pneumatic tires, so it has a good ride. It's a 10mph mower. You should demo it and see how it cuts compared to the others.

What's the Pup, about $6400? The Tiger Cub sells for $7000. And the Toro at $6100 or so. What is the Hustler selling for? You said it's more than the Tiger Cub. You should look at the Bad Boy Lightning. You can get into the Lightning 26hp liquid cooled Kawasaki/52" for $7500, and it's the 14mph unit with 4 wheel suspension and the suspension seat. It would easily have the best ride out of all those you demoed.

Oh, one more thing about the Toro Z400, it also does not come with the Turbo Force deck. It's really not even in the same class as the Scag and others.

If you want a Scag that rides smoother, try putting pneumatic tires and a suspension seat on it. On machines without suspension, there are only a few variables that cause differences in ride quality. Tires, the seat, and frame flex. A lightly framed machine will flex and absorb some shock. I guarantee you there is 0 frame flex on the Scag or Bad Boy. I'm not as familiar with the frames on the Toro and Hustler, but I would venture to say they're not framed as heavily (though they are tough I'm sure).

MJB
05-28-2008, 11:42 PM
my only complaint about the Bad Boy is how high the seat is i do alot of residential lawns .. trees and so forth to get under... another major factor for me is the interest rates available.. Skag 0-1.9 36 months Toro 3.9 @36 months and the Hustler and Bad Boy don't have any Special rates... very good point about time is Money.. less time in Shop= more money my toro dealer offers a unit if yours in in shop more than 1 hr so nice benefit..

Have you considered leasing the mower through advance acceptance? They will give you the payment plan that works best for you I pay 7 payments per yr during our growing season. Then I can write off the whole payment. Plus when I borrow money for something else my lease payment never shows up on my credit to count against my income. Last but not least I pay $1 and the mower is mine after the final payment.

Happy Frog
05-29-2008, 12:04 AM
my only complaint about the Bad Boy is how high the seat is i do alot of residential lawns .. trees and so forth to get under... another major factor for me is the interest rates available.. Skag 0-1.9 36 months Toro 3.9 @36 months and the Hustler and Bad Boy don't have any Special rates... very good point about time is Money.. less time in Shop= more money my toro dealer offers a unit if yours in in shop more than 1 hr so nice benefit..

The Bad Boys seats are actually within less than 1 or 2 inches of most other ZTR (they just look like they are higher).
I recommend you having a look on the Lightning as well. Well worth the extra investment.

puppypaws
05-29-2008, 12:14 AM
The Bad Boys seats are actually within less than 1 or 2 inches of most other ZTR (they just look like they are higher).
I recommend you having a look on the Lightning as well. Well worth the extra investment.

Go into this thread I started a while back: "Hustler & Bad Boy Side By Side"

Here is another one for him: "Bad Boy Lightening Detailed Review"

Here are close measurements: "Super Z & Bad Boy Measurements "

1st Choice
05-29-2008, 09:19 AM
Looks like th seat height is about 5 inches higher on the bad boy...than the hustler .. why not any responses on the Toro? any Toro drivers o here? think ive narrowed it down to Toro and Skag.....good pricing and great intrest rate.... Any coments on these 2?

tb8100
05-29-2008, 10:50 AM
I would compare the Scag to a Toro with the Turbo Force deck. Why spend this chunk of money and not get the latest and greatest? The SFS deck is old school and I doubt cuts near as well as the T Force.

1st Choice
05-29-2008, 09:58 PM
Well last chance for any comments... think im gona go with the scag 48 with 19 Kaw any last bits of advice?

ATouchofGrass
05-29-2008, 10:06 PM
Go with the Scag, ive had them since i started which was about 19 years ago.. And they still are the BEST! If your looking for something that can go through 2 feet high grass and still leave a GREAT cut then that is your best bet. If it were me buying i wouldnt really care about ride quality, just because it beats standing or walking and your getting the job that much quicker!

1st Choice
05-29-2008, 10:09 PM
on the ride quality we checked air pressure in the tires and they all were over presurized... hence the harsh ride once we adjusted the tire pressure ride was better.. and with the upgraded seat (where you put in you weight) i think it wil be more comfortable all the way around...

1st Choice
05-29-2008, 11:10 PM
Thanks a touch of grass

ALC-GregH
05-29-2008, 11:39 PM
definitely the Scag.....

mowerconsultant
05-30-2008, 03:06 PM
the Hustler and Bad Boy don't have any Special rates...

Not true on the Hustler...
We are offering 0% for 6 months then it goes to 1.9% for the balance of the 36 month terms.

puppypaws
05-30-2008, 03:56 PM
Not true on the Hustler...
We are offering 0% for 6 months then it goes to 1.9% for the balance of the 36 month terms.

Glad you caught that, this is how wrong information travels, and very quickly!

freshprince94
05-30-2008, 04:20 PM
Try out eXmark's Lazer Z HP 46" Deck with 19 hp. Kawi.
http://www.exmark.com/lazerzhp.htm
Or if you want to save a little, the Lazer Z CT 48" with the 18 hp Briggs Vanguard.
http://www.exmark.com/LazerZCT.htm

If you're sold on the choices you listed though, definitely don't get the Z400, go with a Turbo Force Deck.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=230032
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=232475

This poor kid is having tons of issues with his mower, I believe it's the Z400.

J&R Landscaping
05-30-2008, 09:43 PM
From the choices you listed, I would go with Bad Boy. Scag/hustler 2nd, Toro would be 3rd.

1st Choice
05-30-2008, 11:44 PM
Well took delivery of my new Scag this morning and whooo Baby what a fine peace of machinery.. gotta luv the cub :cool2:

1st Choice
05-30-2008, 11:50 PM
About the 0% with Hustler.. its on a credit card program through shefield if im not mistaken...

1st Choice
05-30-2008, 11:52 PM
From the choices you listed, I would go with Bad Boy. Scag/hustler 2nd, Toro would be 3rd.

well my Scag dealer is my Bad Boy Dealer as well... looked at both real hard chose scag liked the lower center of gravity do alot around trees littler lower

mowerconsultant
05-30-2008, 11:54 PM
About the 0% with Hustler.. its on a credit card program through shefield if im not mistaken...

Not a credit card program.
It is through GE retail finance.

1st Choice
05-30-2008, 11:56 PM
Not a credit card program.
It is through GE retail finance.

Well the hustler dealer dropped the ball.. i got 0% for 36 Months with scag.. and my scag dealer where i live is better on service....

Zooropa93
05-31-2008, 01:28 AM
I'm partial to scag, but hustler has a good product, the problem is that they had really high dealer fees (which in many cases will in some way or another get passed on to the customer) for using the financing programs (usually higher than any other brand we dealt with)

puppypaws
05-31-2008, 01:53 AM
Well the hustler dealer dropped the ball.. i got 0% for 36 Months with scag.. and my scag dealer where i live is better on service....

Can't beat using someone else's money and got a good mower to boot!

Mike Blevins
05-31-2008, 03:22 PM
Congrats on the Scag Cub. I know some people that own these mowers and they love them. They have logged alot of hours on them also. Good to see them cats eye gold machines on more and more trailers. "Simply the Best" is Scags logo and you will find out why now. Let us know how you like it. Good Luck!!:usflag:

tb8100
05-31-2008, 03:44 PM
Well took delivery of my new Scag this morning and whooo Baby what a fine peace of machinery.. gotta luv the cub :cool2:

glad you like it bro! Both the Bad Boy and Scag are fine pieces of equipment, and both are fit for different applications. The Cub is a great solid machine and much better engineered than the Toro or Hustlers in that price range.

Just watch those ROPS knobs...I hear they're easy to snag on fence tensioners!

1st Choice
05-31-2008, 06:48 PM
Those ROPS knobs can make you go verticle :dizzy: but it came right back down..... 3.4 hrs on the cub.... already made its own first Payment.. and suprised on the low fuel consuption... cut some three foot grasses with it this morning with dew on it..., did a nice job even with the 19 KAW gotta say made the right choice... now cant wait for my new seat to come in...

puppypaws
06-01-2008, 12:09 AM
Congrats on the Scag Cub. I know some people that own these mowers and they love them. They have logged alot of hours on them also. Good to see them cats eye gold machines on more and more trailers. "Simply the Best" is Scags logo and you will find out why now. Let us know how you like it. Good Luck!!:usflag:

I hate going to Charlotte, NC (too many people) but had to be there one morning last week while everyone was going to work. There were a tremendous number of of lawn maintenance crews pulling trailers with mowers, (and I mean a tremendous number) so I started trying to notice the mowers. I have not figured out yet what these people really like. I saw, Scags, Exmarks, Toros, Hustlers, Bobcats, Dixie Choppers, Ferris, Gravelys and Everides. The Everides really caught my eye because I've not seen them before. I can't swear to it but it seems like I saw more Bobcats than anything then Exmark, Scag and Hustler. I was really amazed at the number of mowers I saw, it seemed like every 20 vehicles there would be mowers showing up.

HankB
06-17-2008, 09:06 AM
I was in the exact same position as you are. I already owned a 2005 scag tiger cub 48", but we needed a second mower. I shopped really hard and I settled on the Toro Z400 48". The reasons was it seemed to ride better and handled better than the scag, The price was 5995.00 vs scag at 6995.00 and Toro had 12 months same as cash with 0% interest.
I asked the sales guy, why is the toro 1000.00 less, he said about the only difference is the spindles, but the toro has the 21 hp, so basically seemed like the mowers were almost exactly the same with a couple trade offs, 21hp vs 19 hp, but the scag had tappered spindles, so the trade offs seemed pretty even and the scag was 1000.00 more. So i went with the Toro

One thing that did push me over was, I found a 2007 toro Z Master model with 30 hours on it for 4700.00. But it had 20 inch tires, no large air cleaner, and whatever else, i dont know about. The 2008 was the same price as the 2007 model was new, but had improvements, larger tires, big air cleaner etcc, it seemed like toro was really trying to build a very competitive priced commercial mower.

The store owner uses a scag, and his son uses the Toro. So they seem pretty close, saved 1000.00 dollars and got to use their money with no interest for 12 months. I would have been pleased with either, I think.
I don't mow commercially but if I did probably would have bought the scag since we already owned one. But if i was going to buy in that price range I would probably bumb up more and get the bigger scag.