best broadleaf control???

[johnnywill08]

hi guys, i'm learning the organic fert game and loving it, but i'm pretty much a rook.... i live outside of boston and was hoping to get the best possible broadleaf control possible.... in the past i've used spot spray 2-4d, but want to eliminate it asap.

i'd like to be able to drive to where i need to get it, btu i can have it shipped, i guess.

thanks in advance

[DeepGreenLawn]

as treegal will tell you the two best organic selective weed controls are your left and right hand. Other than that the only organic weed controls are nonselective (roundup). Different people do things different ways, I personally am a hybrid company, I use 2-4d when I need to get control of a lawn and then hand pull after that. There is not a real good pre-m either, a lot of people will point you to CGM but it is hard to find and really expensive. So, I bring in the traditional pre-m's until I get the lawn in well enough shape to withstand the weeds on its own.

As I said, everyone does it differently, thats my two cents.

[Tim Wilson]

Roundup - organic?

[Tim Wilson]

Big company - buying up farmland - makes broad spectrum plant poison - makes and sells genetically modified plants (seed) that is impervious to that poison - sues small farmers for using their seed which blows into farmers fields - farmers have to buy seed each year - can't harvest seed for sowing - numerous species invlolved - hmmmm
Now what is wrong with this picture?

[DeepGreenLawn]

no no no, not round up as the organic, I have found organics that are similar to the reaction you get with roundup. Nonselective. Sorry for the wording. Kind of like vinegar? I think one was called burnout. I forget.

[treegal1]

we are experimenting with an acid palm oil, it works good, we just have to work out some kinks.

after that try fire and a shovel or by hand.

vinegar and burn out( a mixture of clove oils and other things) work good to

[ABeez]

I found spot spraying with Green Guardian weed and feed works great at least during the springtime when the broadleaf weeds are growing.

[johnnywill08]

we are experimenting with an acid palm oil, it works good, we just have to work out some kinks.

after that try fire and a shovel or by hand.

vinegar and burn out( a mixture of clove oils and other things) work good to

am i mistaken, in that experiment with mixs of your own is illegal??? not tryin to start a beef, but i was under the impression that putting down stuff not labelled for that specific purpose wasn't allowed.

ie i put down corn meal on my own lawn, but i believe that's illegal for me to do for others.

or is palm oil (i've never used it) intended specifically for that and labelled as such?

[DeepGreenLawn]

I am pretty sure she has a license to do the experiments. She is a little mad scientist down there always talking about how she tries this and tries that. One day we are going to hear of this massive explosion and you will see her walking around on the news with her hair all frizzled, a black smudged face and a blank stare on her face. "oops". Like when a cartoon character blows up on T.V., well at least when I was growing up now they show limbs and blood flying everywhere it seems.

LOL

[ICT Bill]

johnnywill08
Look at the "organic license what's in a name" thread, what you claim as a service was covered pretty well in that

[johnnywill08]

johnnywill08
Look at the "organic license what's in a name" thread, what you claim as a service was covered pretty well in that
got a link????

[treegal1]

johny what i do indoors is my business. and try getting a section 18 experimental use permit it really helps. or you can get a NDA from my lawyer and come and see for your self. and Bill can tell of an EPA X number he's ben there a dozen times

[ICT Bill]

got a link????

johnnywill08,
It is on the organic lawn care site that you are posting on just scroll down a few messages

[treegal1]

and we are in organics for the reasons that we are a little forgetful, spill tea and you have bioremediated, spill roundup and its spill cleanup time. once we spilled a load of molasses, it was every where. a little hose action and a spill/ release form and that was it, nothing to it. the spill control guy from the fire department was upset that we even called. " i got out of bed for this" and " 1 hour of paper work for stuff that gets used to clean chem spills".

[mrkosar]

I found spot spraying with Green Guardian weed and feed works great at least during the springtime when the broadleaf weeds are growing.

how often do you spray? do you have any pics?

[mrkosar]

Abeez or anyone spot treating with Green Guardian can you tell me how often you are spraying and what you an estimation of what you are charging? also, if you have any pics to show the results would be great. i just don't see how spraying 3 times in 4 weeks to get 50% control of weeds is profitable. also, i haven't seen the results that green guardian shows with their pics.

one more question: are you guys spot treating with the 14-0-? or the 5% stuff? how are you not burning up lawns if it is the 14% stuff?

[johnnywill08]

bump this please.... cmon jedi masters, school us rooks! this is the weakest part of my program (as i still use 2-4d)..... by the way, nice to see a sox fan from as far as ohio!

[DeepGreenLawn]

There is not a good "organic" selective weed killer other than your own two hands. I use this 80% of the time and it doesn't take that long. I do not do maintenance so they tend to get to be more than you would if you were out there every week.

On the over run yards I will use 2-4d. And then pull what I find after that.

[greenguy08]

burn out and scythe are excellent products. I believe the burn out is omri listed. The scythe is not, but it is a non- toxic, all natural product- the active ingredient is a fatty acid. There are lots of organic herbicides that are VERY effective. Google Ohio Earth Food. They do mail order and can answer your questions.

[treegal1]

the SCYTHE is all natural, they say that they are going to try to get it certified next year 09, LETS JUST HOPE!!! we use it a little to get things started, after that its mostly by hand!!! what is this green guardian???

[livingsoils]

Green Gordian in a all natural weed control. I have had good results with it. Most of my lawns are pretty much weeds free so I mostly spot spray with it. I use a lesco backpack with a teejet 8010 nozzle. You can usually get away with 1 application but for best results I usually hit them a second time. What I do is spot spray the weeds and when I am in the area again I swing back and hit them a second time. It only takes a few minutes the second time and I have been getting good results from it.
It works on most of your common weeds, but has trouble with the tougher weeds like violets and wild strawberry.
I have found treating in the early Spring when the weeds are just coming up you can get away with a single treatment. Once they go to flower they will need a second treatment or even a third. I do not treat them 3 times in a 2 week period, I just spot spray them when I am out for their next treatment.
It is expensive so spot spraying keeps the cost down.
I have not had any burn to the lawn when I applied it even in 80 degree days.

I attach a link to a thread I started last year with some Pics. I will try to get some new pics soon.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=190765

[DeepGreenLawn]

it is a company I looked at a while ago. They are OK but I don't think they fit my program. I was saying there is not a good SELECTIVE herbicide. As far as I know Burn Out is a nonselective, it will kill anything. I have never heard of scythe though.

[livingsoils]

Green Gaurdian IS selective and it is also a fertilizer.

[NattyLawn]

Green Guardian 14-0-5 is not considered organic because of the urea in it. It is marketed is edible, rather than organic as all ingredients are in the food or makeup industries. I have used both 14-0-5 and the 5-0-3, and the 14-0-5 works much better on weeds. I use the lawnjet gun with the tk-10 tip from Rittenhouse sprayed at 1 gallon per thousand.

I usually blanket the first app, then spot treat on the second. As Livingsoils said, the stuff ain't cheap. They are a sponsor and have their own forum on here. Search there for some more info.

It's funny how 2 guys from Lancaster PA that have never talked to each other and have seen good results with this product, yet there's countless pages of people saying there's no organic or pesticide free selective product. Instead of just asking questions, do some digging! You didn't have to go too far. Just the sponsor forum.

[Smallaxe]

So r u saying you CAN kill my dandelions? Without - hurting my grass??

[livingsoils]

That is what I am saying. I will try to dig some pics up. Better yet, maybe I will spray some today and post fresh pictures. In the meantime check out the pictures on the 2nd page of the thread I linked to a few post ago. It has pictures of the GG working on my clover patch.

You are right Natty, maybe it is the soil in Lancaster that makes it work so well. 90 degrees here for the next few days, keep cool.

[NattyLawn]

So r u saying you CAN kill my dandelions? Without - hurting my grass??

You see dandelions and plantain wilt usually within 24 hrs. Complete kill time varies, as it may take up to 30 days for weeds to completely disappear.

I'll look for the thread with some of my bad pics.

[RigglePLC]

Not organic, but Octane is more than 10 times safer than 2,4-D, you only need 4 ounces per acre, and it disappears in 2 hours. Salesman is a sponsor here, but I can't find the link at the moment.
a link:

http://www.sepro.com/default.php?page=octane

[Smallaxe]

Is Green Guardian authorized for use within the 20 foot of a shoreline boundry? Seems like Octane would be safe near the water as well.

Just wndering if anyone knows an official stand by DNR on these things.

[treegal1]

the octane is a Little bit of Grey area, and there's concern over the way that it lasts in the soil!!! also wearing a real PPE/ PPD in my kind of heat would be suicide, not to mention the cost of the stuff.

I will stay organo- nut for now, the green guardian was an option until the urea part, how long is that going to last with the cost of urea from china???

[livingsoils]

OK, I sprayed some weeds this morning in the worst conditions so I might not have any grass in these areas but I am doing it for the knowledge that we will get from this little experiment.
It was 90 degrees and humid when I sprayed. I also was lazy and did not want to mix a fresh batch so used what was left in my backpack which was sitting few days, but on the bright side it did not smell rancid (you will know what I mean if you have used it before and forgot about it for a few days) I will keep you up to date on whether I have any grass or not. I am using the 14-0-5. They also have a 5-0-3 for Summer use and has less N.
I will keep you informed.

[PSUTURFGEEK]

How many hot days in a row does it take for this product to ammoniate and just be a nasty total burn down material, just wondering how it would hold up in batch mixes, I've sold it just havn't used it yet.

[DeepGreenLawn]

OK, you got me, I had looked at their products originally as a fert but like you said it was a little more cost than I was looking for. I was not aware that it was also a selective weed killer. My bad. I will have to look into this some more.

I wander why they don't just drop the urea. Then they could have one of the very very few organic selective weed controls.

Definitely worth looking into though.

[livingsoils]

On hot days you can have it mixed for only a few days then it really smells and has the potential to burn the lawn.

Here are some pic from today: Notice the clover is already burning out and the dandelions are just starting to curl. I have not noticed any yellowing of the lawn. It may look like it in the pictures but it has some red thread and the way the pictures were take makes it look brown.

[ICT Bill]

Cool, Thank Mike for the pictures and follow up

[DMAN]

Mike,

What tip are you using in your backpack sprayer? Also have you figured out a system for your Perma green? Thanks.

Darron

[lawnsbytim]

I've used a lot of Green Guardian and it does pretty good with the dandelions - especially when you do a powdered lime treatment while the lawn is still wet with the beet juice. If you want the organic, just get the 5-0-6.