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SobeHall
05-31-2008, 06:08 PM
My FEBCO backflow,has a crack slightly above the turnoff. What's the best way to fix this? I have pics but for some reason I can't post on the site, if anyone thinks they could help I could send the pic directly to their email. Thank you!!

It's not leaking, but when I turn the valve on it sprays me with water out of the cracked part.//JHall

Looks like the pic did work.

HokieAg07
05-31-2008, 06:19 PM
Well is it split on the actual ball valve or is it split on the backflow itself? If it is the ball valve you can just replace it otherwise you will have to replace the backflow most likely..

Looks like the picture worked, yeah you can just replace that ballvalve and be on your way

DanaMac
05-31-2008, 06:22 PM
Copper pipe has to be cut. Twist backflow preventer off. Twist existing ball valve off. Install thread tape on threads. Thread on new ball valve. solder pipe back together.

That is not the original ball valve so it has been replaced before.

SobeHall
05-31-2008, 06:22 PM
I circled in red right above the red cutoff valve. I'm not to sure about all of the correct terms dealing with this, so I'm not sure what the ball valve is.

DanaMac
05-31-2008, 06:24 PM
I circled in red right above the red cutoff valve. I'm not to sure about all of the correct terms dealing with this, so I'm not sure what the ball valve is.

Ball valve is the portion that is cracked. It is appx. 2"-3" long, has female (internal) threads, and the handle which closes it off for isolation. Crack is from freezing. Most likely the handle was turned 90 degrees to the closed position for the winter, trapping water inside.

It was probably leaking last year as well as indicated by the corrosion and deposits on the handle and the housing.

DanaMac
05-31-2008, 06:27 PM
And who the heck installed the grounding wire on the testcock valve? :dizzy: Let me guess, it goes to either dish or cable for TV

SobeHall
05-31-2008, 06:31 PM
Actually there is a dish on the side of the house, but it was there before we moved in, in February. I asked the same question when I first saw it like that.

So pretty much what you're saying is I need to remove the bottom part of the backflow (the ball valve) amd replace it, but it's going to require soldering on the pipe coming out of the house? Is there anyway to get around the soldering, or any idea how much it would cost just to get someone else to do it?

DanaMac
05-31-2008, 06:35 PM
Actually there is a dish on the side of the house, but it was there before we moved in, in February. I asked the same question when I first saw it like that.

So pretty much what you're saying is I need to remove the bottom part of the backflow (the ball valve) amd replace it, but it's going to require soldering on the pipe coming out of the house? Is there anyway to get around the soldering, or any idea how much it would cost just to get someone else to do it?

No, pipe must be cut. You could go the route of the cutting the pipe, and using Shark Bite fittings to re-couple it, but I have never used those. No opinion on them yet. My company can do it for between $85-$100 if there are no other problems to the system. If you want us to do it, email me directly (follow link to website). We are booked up for a minimum of 7-10 days though.

SobeHall
05-31-2008, 06:35 PM
Would I have to solder if I used a coupling?? I've been told I could use a coupling ... I've been trying to get this figured out since February, now I have no sprinklers to water my yard.

DanaMac
05-31-2008, 06:38 PM
Would I have to solder if I used a coupling?? I've been told I could use a coupling ... I've been trying to get this figured out since February, now I have no sprinklers to water my yard.

Why can't you water the lawn? It will probably leak a little but turn it back off after the cycle is running. And sometimes it won't leak in the fully open or fully closed position, and only leak when turning from one to the other.

Yes the pipe should be cut and a copper coupler solder back in to repair the cut pipe. that is the kind of coupler I am talking about.

SobeHall
05-31-2008, 06:38 PM
I'm familiar with sprinkler systems but not the backflow part of it, I'm originally from south carolina, and I don't recall having a backflow preventer on our old system, so this backflow deal is the only thing I'm stumped on. How much do the ball valves normally run and are they sold separately for each type of backflow or are they pretty much universal?

DanaMac
05-31-2008, 06:40 PM
Not sure what the typical Home Depot and Lowes sells them for. Less than $20 probably. 3/4" thread.

SobeHall
05-31-2008, 06:44 PM
I can't water because the when I turn the valve on the water sprays all over the place. It's not just a litlte coming out, but a lot.

DanaMac
05-31-2008, 06:46 PM
I can't water because the when I turn the valve on the water sprays all over the place. It's not just a litlte coming out, but a lot.

OK, sometimes it won't leak until you turn it. since it is at the seam it probably will leak more then.

Mike Leary
05-31-2008, 06:48 PM
Are you sure your four test cocks are not open?

SobeHall
05-31-2008, 06:51 PM
I have no idea what that means Mike. But if you're talking about the small valve on the bottom of the preventor, it's tightly screwed on, I was sprayed by that first, tightened it, and continued to get sprayed through the cracked 'ball valve' ... soundin like a pro now ... lol.

DanaMac
05-31-2008, 06:52 PM
Are you sure your four test cocks are not open?

Did you not look at the pic? PVB, two testcocks, both closed, crack in BV.

DanaMac
05-31-2008, 06:53 PM
I have no idea what that means Mike. But if you're talking about the small valve on the bottom of the preventor, it's tightly screwed on, I was sprayed by that first, tightened it, and continued to get sprayed through the cracked 'ball valve' ... soundin like a pro now ... lol.

Need a job??!! :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Testcocks are the two things sticking out the side, with the little screw in them, which is actually a ball valve as well

SobeHall
05-31-2008, 06:56 PM
I have too much work to do now, I definitely wouldn't be able to handle something I have to go out looking for help with. LoL.

Wet_Boots
05-31-2008, 06:57 PM
No, pipe must be cut. You could go the route of the cutting the pipe, and using Shark Bite fittings to re-couple it, but I have never used those. No opinion on them yet. My company can do it for between $85-$100 if there are no other problems to the system. If you want us to do it, email me directly (follow link to website). We are booked up for a minimum of 7-10 days though.
Bargain - I'd want at least $120

SobeHall
05-31-2008, 06:58 PM
Yeah the thing that the non-op satellite dish is grounded to. I'll probably take that off today ... lol.

DanaMac
05-31-2008, 06:59 PM
OK here's the deal. You can go buy a copper cutter ($20-$45), torch and gas ($30-$50), flux paste ($5-$8), copper cloth/sand paper type cleaner ($5-$10), roll of solder ($10-$20), copper coupler ($1), ball valve($20), Thread tape ($2), and hours of trying to figure it out. And you'd have the tools for next time it happens. You would gain some knowledge and we'd be proud of you for doing it right. :clapping: or you could screw it up and make it worse and we'd chastise you :nono: . Or we can come replace it and it'd be done right from the get go.

Mike Leary
05-31-2008, 06:59 PM
Did you not look at the pic? PVB, two testcocks, both closed, crack in BV.

O.K., I did not look at the pic, I'm so used to double checks, I messed up.:hammerhead:

DanaMac
05-31-2008, 07:00 PM
Bargain - I'd want at least $120

Take me 15 minutes to do. at the most. Take longer to drive there.

Wet_Boots
05-31-2008, 07:02 PM
Take me 15 minutes to do. at the most. Take longer to drive there.Blue State labor rates are higher :)

DanaMac
05-31-2008, 07:03 PM
Blue State labor rates are higher :)

So are their home prices :)

DanaMac
05-31-2008, 07:07 PM
I may have to charge extra for spending the last half hour "working" on it on a Saturday. :rolleyes:

SobeHall
05-31-2008, 07:43 PM
I'll look into it, the wife likes it when I save money by doing things myself, if she agree's to getting it fixed by you guys then I'll go that way.

WalkGood
05-31-2008, 08:01 PM
OK here's the deal. You can go buy a copper cutter ($20-$45), torch and gas ($30-$50), flux paste ($5-$8), copper cloth/sand paper type cleaner ($5-$10), roll of solder ($10-$20), copper coupler ($1), ball valve($20), Thread tape ($2), and hours of trying to figure it out. And you'd have the tools for next time it happens. You would gain some knowledge and we'd be proud of you for doing it right. :clapping: or you could screw it up and make it worse and we'd chastise you :nono: . Or we can come replace it and it'd be done right from the get go.

rusty hack saw in the tool box $0.00
Band Aid $0.29
Ball valve $14.87
SharkBite coupler ~ $15.00
SharkBite MPT x sweat ~ $20.00
Chills & Thrills as you turn on the water to see if it works PRICELE$$

;)

DanaMac
05-31-2008, 09:34 PM
I'll look into it, the wife likes it when I save money by doing things myself, if she agree's to getting it fixed by you guys then I'll go that way.

hey nothing wrong with that man. it's a good thing to try and fix things yourself sometimes. It will take you longer than it would me, but you'll get some satisfaction out of it. Show us how well you did it when done.

Mike Leary
05-31-2008, 11:06 PM
hey nothing wrong with that man. it's a good thing to try and fix things yourself sometimes. It will take you longer than it would me, but you'll get some satisfaction out of it. Show us how well you did it when done.

:::cough::::

hoskm01
06-01-2008, 01:36 AM
Pics please.

Youd do right to have Dana do it. Better me, but im not drivin that far!:)

J/k Dana.

AI Inc
06-01-2008, 06:26 AM
The reason it cracked is because the inside shut off has failed. It is passing water , probably only a couple of drips a day.If you are going to spend the time to replumb it , do it right. That drain plug at the elbow on the bottom should have been left open all winter.That would have prevented this crack when the int shutoff was passing water over the winter.

Wet_Boots
06-01-2008, 09:49 AM
(you're not supposed to tell him that!)

AI Inc
06-01-2008, 09:51 AM
(you're not supposed to tell him that!)

He is going to pay me , isnt he?

DanaMac
06-01-2008, 09:53 AM
That drain plug at the elbow on the bottom should have been left open all winter.That would have prevented this crack when the int shutoff was passing water over the winter.

True. A lot of folks take it off, let it drain and then put it back on. I try to tell people, take it off, leave it off, put in a plastic baggie, and put in the valve box. otherwise it gets lost. I try to tell people leave every single drain open.

jimmyburg
06-01-2008, 11:02 AM
once you alter the assembly, like replacing the ball valve, the pvb is not considered an approved assembly anymore.

DanaMac
06-01-2008, 11:05 AM
once you alter the assembly, like replacing the ball valve, the pvb is not considered an approved assembly anymore.

But there are no regs here and no inspections. When we replace a ball valve, we install a new original from Febco one.

AI Inc
06-01-2008, 11:06 AM
But there are no regs here and no inspections. When we replace a ball valve, we install a new original from Febco one.

Sell off the ball valves, sell the poppet and bonnet , scrap the body?

DanaMac
06-01-2008, 11:09 AM
Sell off the ball valves, sell the poppet and bonnet , scrap the body?

I can get 3/4" original ball valves for around $8. We stock BVs and bonnet/poppet kits.

AI Inc
06-01-2008, 11:12 AM
From local supplier? Ive never even asked. Thats good to know. All I use is 1 " , I hate 3/4 pvb,s.

Wet_Boots
06-01-2008, 11:12 AM
once you alter the assembly, like replacing the ball valve, the pvb is not considered an approved assembly anymore.Approvals are issued for the PVB body, if it's the older styles, the ones with the testcocks on the PVB. You can buy just the PVB body, and it carries all the usual approvals, except that alphabet-soup one, for those California fusspots who can't stand to see a backflow preventer without resilient-seating valves on inlet and outlet.

DanaMac
06-01-2008, 11:18 AM
From local supplier? Ive never even asked. Thats good to know. All I use is 1 " , I hate 3/4 pvb,s.

I'd say 75% or more here are 3/4" since that is the typical supply size to the house. yes, local supplier.

SobeHall
06-01-2008, 11:21 AM
Wow, just finished reading all the entries ... I don't know what the regs are here in Colorado for this kind of stuff, but I'm not gonna lie, I looked at the backflow again yesterday, and I can tell that if I do this, it's gonna be a pain ... plus the soldering work will probably be compared to that of a 3yr olds preschool painting. I can solder, don't get me wrong, but it's not pretty. lol.

Wet_Boots
06-01-2008, 11:22 AM
Local custom seems to have a lot to do with it. I see a lot more one-inch Febco 765's than the 3/4-inch ones, probably because the zone valve plumbing is always one-inch.

SobeHall
06-01-2008, 11:23 AM
Dana how soon would you be able to work on this if I went with your Co?

DanaMac
06-01-2008, 11:26 AM
I can get 3/4" original ball valves for around $8.

Now 1" costs me over twice that. So I buy the PVB and strip it as necessary

DanaMac
06-01-2008, 11:30 AM
Dana how soon would you be able to work on this if I went with your Co?

Soonest would be Monday June 9th. If I assume you are in Meridian Ranch/Woodmen Hills area since you posted as being in Peyton. If you are in the boonies of Peyton, that may be a different story. Either email me or call to schedule instead of us posting back and forth here. Although I won't answer either until Monday - hey I'm supposed to be off today. :)

SobeHall
06-01-2008, 11:32 AM
LoL. Alright. Yeah I live in Woodmen Hills.

DanaMac
06-01-2008, 11:35 AM
This is typically my little sanctuary away from customers. and yes we do complain about them here. :) Hope you understand.

SobeHall
06-01-2008, 11:36 AM
LoL. I understand completely.

SobeHall
06-02-2008, 12:39 AM
SO, I went out and took at look again today, I turn the red valve on but about halfway before I got to completely open it started spraying, so I said screw it, I'm gonna open it full blast, oddly enough the water stopped spraying, kinda like the valve sealed the same crack that it opened, so I test my sprinkler system and whala, it works, after hours of programming it. Only problem is one of the heads seems to be busted because I can't adjust it to stop at certain points, the others all seem to be fine though.

hoskm01
06-02-2008, 12:43 AM
But there are no regs here and no inspections. When we replace a ball valve, we install a new original from Febco one.
FC has inspections now, every three years. How badly could you screw up a ball valve replacement to render the device inoperable?

hoskm01
06-02-2008, 12:46 AM
So a magical force sealed that crack in the ball valve?

AI Inc
06-02-2008, 06:22 AM
So a magical force sealed that crack in the ball valve?

No , the ball , sealed the crack in the ball valve. quite common. Still needs to be replaced.

Wet_Boots
06-02-2008, 09:00 AM
No , the ball , sealed the crack in the ball valve. quite common. Still needs to be replaced.Maybe he sprayed it with Leakender 2000
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:cslz8g1Bif2EhM:http://www.cyberbrands.com/pub/images/leakender_med.jpg

SobeHall
06-03-2008, 07:40 AM
LoL ... I'm not sure to tell you the truth ... I opened the valve until it started spraying then continued to open it all the way and it sealed the crack. I agree it still needs to be repaired but for now it seems to be doing fine ... went out and replaced the head with bad gears and now my lawn is happy. Some fine tuning on the heads and replacing that valve should get me up to par. Thanks for all you help, everyone, and DanaMac you should be expecting a phonecall from me sometime in the near future. I'll be heading out of town which is why I can't go ahead and get it fixed now, maybe mid july.

DanaMac
06-03-2008, 08:49 AM
LoL ... I'm not sure to tell you the truth ... I opened the valve until it started spraying then continued to open it all the way and it sealed the crack. I agree it still needs to be repaired but for now it seems to be doing fine ... went out and replaced the head with bad gears and now my lawn is happy. Some fine tuning on the heads and replacing that valve should get me up to par. Thanks for all you help, everyone, and DanaMac you should be expecting a phonecall from me sometime in the near future. I'll be heading out of town which is why I can't go ahead and get it fixed now, maybe mid july.

Cool beans. That's what I was trying to get at early on, turning it all the way open will usually seal it up. Only leaks when turning it. By the way, were you lucky enough to get the irrigation ****** when turning the ball valve :laugh: Had it happen again last Friday.

Call us if ya need us.

Waterit
06-04-2008, 10:01 AM
By the way, were you lucky enough to get the irrigation ****** when turning the ball valve :laugh: Had it happen again last Friday.

Is it Irrigation Law that we must be sprayed in the crotch on every repair?
And that the first zone that comes on is ALWAYS right there where you are standing?

Mike Leary
06-04-2008, 10:26 AM
Is it Irrigation Law that we must be sprayed in the crotch on every repair?
And that the first zone that comes on is ALWAYS right there where you are standing?

Yup, every time, I always duct-tape a 10" round lid to my crotch when I do
service work.

DanaMac
06-04-2008, 10:28 AM
Yup, every time, I always duct-tape a 10" round lid to my crotch when I do
service work.

It's why I wear fast drying shorts. No jeans for this guy.

WalkGood
06-04-2008, 03:18 PM
Yup, every time, I always duct-tape a 10" round lid to my crotch when I do
service work.


The small lid, huh? Only good for 5" "popup" !!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Mike Leary
06-04-2008, 04:32 PM
The small lid, huh? Only good for 5" "popup" !!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

I don't think many Texans got this far before the moss attacked them,
so the 10" is the smallest we use; they continue to duct tape 6" lids. :laugh: