Toro junk

[Toy2]

My neighbors Toro PP starting acting up, grinding, I knew the ft. tranny went out, he has had the mower since 06. Tranny was replaced last year in March.

He asked me if I could fix it, of course I said yes, just get the part. Took about an hour and it was back to its great self. 3rd tranny!!!

Anyway what is the deal with this part, its made in Mexico, is this why they don't last?

He paided me $10.00 for the install/////////// guy just turned 83!!!

[kayeproperties]

whats a PP? And I must work for that guys brother and boy he really thinks hes makin your day with that TEN!!!

[LarryF]

whats a PP? And I must work for that guys brother and boy he really thinks hes makin your day with that TEN!!!

I presume its the Toro Personal Pace mower/

http://www.toro.com/home/mowers/superrecycler/20055.html

Seems pretty expensive for something that breaks down frequently.

[Toy2]

Sorry, thanks LarryF, personal pace, tranny last year was installed under warranty, he got the mower at HD and they refused to honor it, which mad him resent HD.

Local Toro dealer covered it under the warranty last year, then last Thursday he called me over to listen and I knew what it was, he did too but figured the belt was loose.....it appears its going to cost him a new tranny every year.

He mows St. Aug. and has a small lot, I know they are junk, because I had the ft. wheel drive and rear drive, I should have just bought a commercial 21 for what I paid for both.

Made in Mexico, how sad!!!!

[LarryF]

Yeah, I'm just a homeowner too and not much younger than your neighbor, but I have no idea why my fellow homeowners buy lawn equipment from Lowes or HD. It all looks chintzy to me. I enjoy work and therefore do my own lawn and whenever possible repair all my lawn tools, most of which are commercial quality. But for the money your neighbor has wasted on that machine, it seems to me he would have been way ahead if he hired you to do his mowing instead of making that purchase. Well, it's obvious that you are a good neighbor. :clapping::clapping:

[Toy2]

HD and Lowe's shows off all the mowers at the start of the season, to bad they don't back up what they sell. He told me he has a mower from Western Auto in 85 and it lasted 15 years, not one issue.

He gave it to his brother when they moved to an apartment, now back in a house and the Toro is junk!!!

[Roger]

I thought a Toro Personal Pace did not have a transmission. I thought the speed variation is controlled by a slipping belt, and there are no gears. What does a transmission do in a PP mower? I thought the whole idea behind PP was the elimination of a transmission. It undoubtedly has a differential, taking power from a single drive line to the outboard shafts to each wheel. But, why a transmission?

[Toy2]

Tranny in the front the Toro, pulls the front wheels, drive belt from it goes to the engine, on the rear drive its just reversed.

The trannys are about $60.00 out the door, it appears he will replace them every year at the rate he is going.

I did stop one guy from buying one at HD a few weeks back, sent him to the local Toro dealer. I make sure on every HD visit I catch someone at the mower section and tell my story, caught a Mexican guy one day, but he still bought it. Guess he didn't like my Spanish!!!!!

[Roger]

T....

The trannys are about $60.00 out the door, ...

$60 for a transmission? That sounds very inexpensive for a multi-geared transmission. How many gears in the transmission? Your response didn't answer the question about why a transmission is needed at all. How is the shifting done? Again, I thought a selling feature of the PP was the lack of a geared transmission that required shifting into specific gears.

[Toy2]

Sorry, first off I'm not a Toro mechanic, just helping a guy out.

The tranny is a single gear driven off the belt to assist the mower front wheels to propel the mower. Handle on the mower with cable down to the pulley on top of the transmission, harder you pull, faster it will go...... If you get a rear driven its opposite. Local Toro dealer $60.00 out the door.

Here is the part#
Displaying TRANSMISSION ASSEMBLY NO. 106-3956 parts for the Toro Consumer 20013, 22in Recycler Lawnmower, 2006 (SN 260000001-260999999

[Roger]

Toy2, .. Thanks. I'm surprised the part is termed "transmission." It is a differential, not a transmission. That is why my confusion. It probably has only a pinion gear, running against a bull gear that is driving the outboard shafts. Since there are no gears for multiple speed ratios, I would not call it a transmission. Sorry, my problem, not yours.

BTW, how did the transmission fail? Did the pinion or bull gear go bad? Or, did the bushings wear quickly? Just curious ....

[gorper99]

I have a 9 year old Toro PP RWD and would not trade it for anything.Best mower I ever had(Besides the one it replaced-19 year oldLB)

[Toy2]

Pretty sure the pinion failed, not sure what happened. It really makes Toro look bad, thanks to Home Depot.

My Toro 36'' is a good machine, but I did get it at the dealer.

[Toy2]

Back to the Toro PP being a junkpile, neighbor calls me today, rope broke at the housing????

WTF!

I restring it thinking that will work, wrong...mower starts but string will not retract!!!!!
Do I need the following:RECOIL STARTER ASSEMBLY $42.00!!!!!!

Help!!!!:confused:

[lawnboy dan]

you get what you pay for!

[LarryF]

you get what you pay for!

The price quoted on the web is $529 which seems like a lot considering the trouble reports by Toy2, so his neighbor didn't really get what he paid for. On the other hand, the recoil starter must have been made by the engine manufacturer and this can happen to any and all pull-start engines.

[jkason]

In my opinion (you know how that is), Toro should scrap everything with the "Personal Pace" crap on it and go back to their 3-speed transmission.

More expensive, but more durable (and rebuildable).

[lubricity]

hd, Lowes, ****** Boys, and all the large chains are selling what Joe American wants. Cheap disposable junk.
Not there fault, if the stuff was better and more expensive, people would not buy it. Look at how the guys ***** here if the dealer charges them a $1.00 more for a part than the internet.

[Ridin' Around]

The price quoted on the web is $529 which seems like a lot considering the trouble reports by Toy2, so his neighbor didn't really get what he paid for. On the other hand, the recoil starter must have been made by the engine manufacturer and this can happen to any and all pull-start engines.

Seems like there is some confusion and some mis-information on this thread. If the mower was purchased from a Box/chain store it was not $529 nor the model # I saw in the link (20055). The box stores sell Toro's "Recycler series" of mowers which are easiest to distinguish by the use of a stamped steel deck. Other spotting points for these decks are white wheels and white grass bags. The "Super Recycler series" of mowers feature a Cast Aluminum/ Magneseum alloy deck material, They feature grey wheels and black bags on the later models. The other distinguishing features on the Super recycler are a 5 year warr. for home-owners (Versus 2 on the "recycler"), a heavier built transmission, and "kickers" under the deck which make it one of the best mulching WPMs on the market IMO. The "super recyclers" are only sold @ servicing dealers not evil box stores! There is a big difference in the way the mowers are built and how they hold up.

[LarryF]

Seems like there is some confusion and some mis-information on this thread. If the mower was purchased from a Box/chain store it was not $529 nor the model # I saw in the link (20055). The box stores sell Toro's "Recycler series" of mowers which are easiest to distinguish by the use of a stamped steel deck. Other spotting points for these decks are white wheels and white grass bags. The "Super Recycler series" of mowers feature a Cast Aluminum/ Magneseum alloy deck material, They feature grey wheels and black bags on the later models. The other distinguishing features on the Super recycler are a 5 year warr. for home-owners (Versus 2 on the "recycler"), a heavier built transmission, and "kickers" under the deck which make it one of the best mulching WPMs on the market IMO. The "super recyclers" are only sold @ servicing dealers not evil box stores! There is a big difference in the way the mowers are built and how they hold up.

All good points, but I did preface my identification with the words "I presume its the Toro Personal Pace mower" before providing a URL. If there is confusion, it seems to me that it's caused one-hundred percent by the manufacturer's practice of using the same name to describe both big-box products and the higher quality ones sold at dealers. Such intentional deception may stimulate sales of the low-quality products, but this is an example of how it can backfire to adversely affect the reputation of the manufacturer. If Toro is getting bad press because of this, I believe it deserves it.

[Ridin' Around]

All good points, but I did preface my identification with the words "I presume its the Toro Personal Pace mower" before providing a URL. If there is confusion, it seems to me that it's caused one-hundred percent by the manufacturer's practice of using the same name to describe both big-box products and the higher quality ones sold at dealers. Such intentional deception may stimulate sales of the low-quality products, but this is an example of how it can backfire to adversely affect the reputation of the manufacturer. If Toro is getting bad press because of this, I believe it deserves it.

both are the personal pace, you're right good point!

[Toy2]

Great post folks, I think he paid $380.00 for that mower, plus the issues with the transmission, now with the rope breaking......I tried twice to help him with the rope, It will start and retracts half of the rope, so not sure if it needs a spring about $8 to $10.00. ......I would rather just put a new assembly and call it good......I did call a friend of mine who has a couple of these junked, he might have the parts I need........homeowner is very upset because he thought Toro meant quaility.....:confused:

[jkason]

.......homeowner is very upset because he thought Toro meant quaility.....:confused:

Well, it used to....

But now, Toro is using MTD to build their "price point" tractors.

[Ridin' Around]

Well, it used to....

But now, Toro is using MTD to build their "price point" tractors.

Again for clarification the mtd units are the tractor style riding mowers sold at HDepot. The rest of the machines still come from Toro factories. You can look at the model # of the machine, 5 Digits = Toro/ 13 digits = MTD.
Again only posted for clarification. IMO Toro still builds one of best small yard homeowner Z's on the market with the Timecutter & Titan (same as Xmark Quest) series of machines. The Turbo Force deck on the commercial machines is one of the best cutting, adaptable to conditions, mowing decks you can buy. Again, my opinions only!

[c4trash]

I wish I had seen this info prior to purchasing my Toro 20013 PP Mower but I didnt so will live with it for now I have only one problem with mine which is the minimum cutting height of 1 1/4 " Over here in New Zealand because of the species of grass lowest cutting heights are normarly between 1/2" and 3/4" so I am looking at making a new Blade Driver ASM to lower the blade slightly and wonder if anyone has tried it
As for parts for your Toro Mowers go to http://www.toro.com/index.html and you will find a link for parts where you can enter your Model No and it will return with a link to download a parts list
As for Recoil starter poblems this is an engine issue and is related to which engine is on the mower and you will need to track the problem down with the relevant manufacture ie Briggs and Straton etc it would be unfair to lump the problem onto Toro as they only provide the running gear
Cash4Trash
Wellington
New Zealand

[Toy2]

Update folks, my mex LCO has about 3 of the Toro Recyclers trashed at his shop/house.

Grabbed the housing off one of them and drove home, knocked on my neighbors door, told him I had his ''fix'', 5 minutes back in business.....price zero.....

He was used a flathead screwdriver to rewind the string after starting, accident waiting to happen.......didn't want to see a 80+ year old man with no toes!!!!

Stick to the dealer for mowers, don't care what mower, but dealers are best!!!

[Phil G]

Over here in New Zealand because of the species of grass lowest cutting heights are normarly between 1/2" and 3/4" so I am looking at making a new Blade Driver ASM to lower the blade slightly and wonder if anyone has tried it
Cash4Trash
Wellington
New Zealand

I've done this on some machines here in the UK. Measure how far the blade is recessed inside the deck. I like to leave it not less than 3/8 inside the deck. Some machine from new have had the blade over one inch inside the deck. Just make sure if there is a belt take off that the belt does not run too much out of true. I usually fit spacer under the blade boss to bring it lower to the ground. One of the advantages of doing this, it reduces wear to the lower edge of the deck. However if you lower too much it will spit grass out the side of the deck :)

[c4trash]

I've done this on some machines here in the UK. Measure how far the blade is recessed inside the deck. I like to leave it not less than 3/8 inside the deck. Some machine from new have had the blade over one inch inside the deck. Just make sure if there is a belt take off that the belt does not run too much out of true. I usually fit spacer under the blade boss to bring it lower to the ground. One of the advantages of doing this, it reduces wear to the lower edge of the deck. However if you lower too much it will spit grass out the side of the deck :)

I was considering this and may need to buy a longer bolt to bolt blade on Any spacer I make will be designed similar to the blade boss on end of adapter to fit inside the blade and should ensure that the blade wont move on the adaptor to get the thickness I will need to do some calculations before getting a piece of steel cut, I think this would be a better method than using washers between the blade and adapter:)

[Phil G]

I was considering this and may need to buy a longer bolt to bolt blade on Any spacer I make will be designed similar to the blade boss on end of adapter to fit inside the blade and should ensure that the blade wont move on the adaptor to get the thickness I will need to do some calculations before getting a piece of steel cut, I think this would be a better method than using washers between the blade and adapter:)

My description was not very good. What I meant to say was; I remove the blade and the blade boss. And space between the end of the crankcase and the inside of the boss. You're right, depending on how far you space the boss lower to the ground you might need a longer fixing bolt. This way the blade to blade boss fitting remains the same. Some UK manufacturers already use this method to fix the blade setting
atb Phil :)

[c4trash]

My description was not very good. What I meant to say was; I remove the blade and the blade boss. And space between the end of the crankcase and the inside of the boss. You're right, depending on how far you space the boss lower to the ground you might need a longer fixing bolt. This way the blade to blade boss fitting remains the same. Some UK manufacturers already use this method to fix the blade setting
atb Phil :)

I had a look at it today and took the blade off and based on the unusual contour of the blade desided the best option is to either buy a new blade or alternatively find someone who has a used one they dont want I will then cut a section out of the middle the same size as tthe blade boss and insert it in between the blade and adaptor.I tried a couple of washers in today (temporaily) and found that the thickness of the blade is probably enough to lower the cutting height enough it didnt need that much to make a difference
I will keep you posted:)

[c4trash]

I had a 2nd look at adjusting my cutting height on the mower, After trying a couple of washers between the blade and carrier decided the standard washers wernt siutable because the blade tendered to move on the carrier Also as it wasnt economical to purchase a new blade just to cut it to suit decided to buy 3/8 or 10mm ID square galv washers I removed blade and using it as a template hammered the washers in a vice to fit the inside profile of the blade (if you have an gas set its easy to heat them up.
Once you have the right shape you also also need to file the hole out a little to ensure your bolt fits before reassembling it.
Because its winter here and grass can be quite wet I have put just the one in and it works real good When summer returns may add a second one :)

[J&R Landscaping]

Back to the Toro PP being a junkpile, neighbor calls me today, rope broke at the housing????

WTF!

I restring it thinking that will work, wrong...mower starts but string will not retract!!!!!
Do I need the following:RECOIL STARTER ASSEMBLY $42.00!!!!!!

Help!!!!:confused:

It probably has a tecumseh engine on it. The whole starter assy is an easy 4 screw on and off. Can't think of the part # but I know my dealer keeps them in stock. It could be a bad recoil spring. The spring is cheap but the labor is a pain. Its easier for me to replace the whole assy and be done with it. I would take it to the dealer and see what can be done.

I used to work for a toro dealer and used to do warranties for them. Toro will pay for stuff if the dealer pushes for it. The dealership I worked for was a "master sales and service dealer" so that may have had something to do with it. Some of the mowers from Home depot had an extended 3 year warranty. Take it to a dealer and see what can be done.

[Toy2]

Yes sir, its a TECH motor, dealer will no mess with it, HD is not even an option.....I switched it out already and he was grateful....

I told him again to buy a mower from a dealer, not a chain store....but he is one of thousands that get suckered into buying crap from them, but it does give Toro a bad name all around.

[DT Lawn Care]

I wouldn't EVER buy a Home Depot Personal Pace mower. I have a friend at a local toro dealer/repair shop, and that's all that they pretty much fix there. Also, when they replace the trannys they just put the same POS in it. Much much better to buy a used 3-speed proline for less.

[groundsmechanic]

We have four or five PP here and I replaced the diff. assembly on one last year. They only use the mowers maybe once a week for like an hour at my shop and downtown they use them a lot more. Just put new handles and tires on a couple.

I just bought one for myself and it is so much nicer than the older craftsman I was using. I got tired of pulling 15 times to get it started and then have the rope break. I will keep that one and fix it but now I have my new one.

I paid like $290 for mine, but I got a $60 discount off retail. I bought it from the ACE that I work at after my regular job. They seem to be the same as the ones here at the shop.