PDA

View Full Version : do you need all those heads


greenmonster304
06-04-2008, 09:50 PM
I went to an estimate today. Its a spec house about 5,000 square feet on 1 1/2 acre with pool and tennis court. so i counted about 65 rotory heads 20 spray and a couple of drip zones. this also includes a zone for the tennis court (hard-tru). $10,000-$12,000 this was just a rough estimate because the final landscape plan is not yet laid out but it was pretty close.

so i went over the estimate with him and he almost fell over when I told hm the price. Then he started in with "you don't need all those heads you could do it with 50 total". I told him about head to head coverage and all that but he wasnt hearing it. He than asked if I would do it within a $5000.00-$6000.00 buget and do the best I can with that. My first reaction was NO but I could use the work. my fear is that if i build it the way he wants he wont be happy in the end because the system will suck. And the other thing is i dont want a reputation of puting in sh!t systems. What would you guys do?

DanaMac
06-04-2008, 09:52 PM
Stick to your guns man. Don't give in. He'll do just like you said and complain later on.

CAPT Stream Rotar
06-04-2008, 09:56 PM
walk away.

RedWingsDet
06-04-2008, 09:57 PM
dont walk away. RUN AWAY...

Wet_Boots
06-04-2008, 10:00 PM
One can do 'builder systems' that are effective, but it does nothing for one's professional ego. If the buyer knows he's trading down from a Mercedes to a Hyundai, you might be able to do a deal. $6000 doesn't even get you a faucet for that tennis court.

An acre-and-a-half plus tennis court plus drip zones was a $10K system in the previous century, let alone this one.

Mike Leary
06-04-2008, 10:09 PM
A design was done for the house & the landscaping (& paid for): why was the irrigation
not designed (& also paid for) & put out to bid? :dizzy:

greenmonster304
06-04-2008, 10:09 PM
[QUOTE=Wet_Boots;2357313]One can do 'builder systems' that are effective, but it does nothing for one's professional ego. If the buyer knows he's trading down from a Mercedes to a Hyundai, you might be able to do a deal. $6000 doesn't even get you a faucet for that tennis court.

An acre-and-a-half plus tennis court plus drip zones was a $10K system in the previous century, let alone this one.[/QUOTe

I figured he was going to be cheap so i was throwing into corners and trying to keep the head count low because I am slow right now and need the work but i didnt think he was that cheap. It might only be a acre.

greenmonster304
06-04-2008, 10:13 PM
A design was done for the house & the landscaping (& paid for): why was the irrigation
not designed (& also paid for) & put out to bid? :dizzy:

this guy bought this house 1/2 finnished cheap because the original builder went bust. He is going to flip it. around here it is rare for a customer/project manager to have an irrigation design and ask companies to bid on it the irrigation co usualy does the design.

Wet_Boots
06-04-2008, 10:15 PM
If I were to do builder systems today, I'd want a hefty deposit.

Mike Leary
06-04-2008, 10:18 PM
If I were to do builder systems today, I'd want a hefty deposit.

How about cash out front? Those guys are slimeballs.

Kiril
06-05-2008, 12:38 AM
I would take a hard look at the design and see if you can do it more efficiently, if not, as others said, run away. Reputation is everything!

AI Inc
06-05-2008, 05:41 AM
The bad part about systems like this is in 2 yrs you will be explaining to the homeowner that " the system was designed around a budget and not the landscape.Keep in mind you dont need head to head on the tennis court , no corners , 6 heads usualy does it.

BrandonV
06-05-2008, 06:34 AM
i-90s on a grid

Wet_Boots
06-05-2008, 06:50 AM
I did some builder systems with Super600's, back in the day, and fat chance finding an effective replacement for those heads today. The S600 lent itself to stretched layouts, and could actually cover them, without dead spots, if you didn't cheat on pressure.

nylan8888
06-05-2008, 07:02 AM
Back in the mid 90's when Rain Bird was killing us with those crappy T-Birds, me and a buddy of mine were drinking , I mean fishing, and trying to figure out how to keep from replacing so many of the pieces of crap that my boss at the time was making us install. We invented the T-Hawk.

You take a T- Bird, check it over real good then throw it away and go buy a brass golf head, mount it on the roof in the center of the house, connect it to a booster pump to obtain most pressure possible. Water the whole yard at the same time with one head. We named it the T-5000, Price $5000.00, Problem solved.

Did I mention we had been drinking:D:D:D

Wet_Boots
06-05-2008, 07:05 AM
I always thought homes should be built on round lots, with the chimney at ground zero. One bigass impact does it all.

johnnie5
06-05-2008, 07:20 AM
its all about the sales pitch ,

you need to assess the job and explain why you need to use X amount of heads and the problems that will occur if you dont use that many

if the customer still wont listen then its better to walk away then have the fight later about why it doesnt work properly

Wet_Boots
06-05-2008, 07:27 AM
Builders will always be in their own category, and there will probably always be builder systems installed, if not quite so cheaply as one could manage with Super600 heads.

FIMCO-MEISTER
06-05-2008, 07:34 AM
dont walk away. RUN AWAY...

Ditto...... Stay away. Once you go in this direction of price over quality it is a slow slide to being out of business.

Congrats on winning Lord Stanley's Cup

Tom Tom
06-05-2008, 09:03 AM
this guy bought this house 1/2 finnished cheap because the original builder went bust. He is going to flip it. around here it is rare for a customer/project manager to have an irrigation design and ask companies to bid on it the irrigation co usualy does the design.


omg a house flipper

Mike Leary
06-05-2008, 10:03 AM
The bad part about systems like this is in 2 yrs you will be explaining to the homeowner that " the system was designed around a budget and not the landscape.

All too true, with my caller I.D., I'd be thumbing through the phone book while
the homeowner was telling me the problem(s). In most cases, they were
spec jobs or medium end developments. I finally quit going to most of them;
hard to tell someone that thought they had a "system" that they had crap
and the only fix was complete replacement. :cry:

Waterit
06-05-2008, 07:01 PM
If you don't decide to run away from it - tell the guy what you'll for the $6k he wants to spend, without sacrificing quality.

Had a tract builder give a $2500 per lot budget a few years ago - so he got $2500 worth of quality irrigation on every lot (74 of 'em, too much $ to just walk away from). That's not to say they got complete coverage - some had nothing in backyard, some had single row of rotars throwing wild from house...

When it comes down to it, no matter what anyone says, YOU have to feed your family, and provide work for your employees so they can feed theirs.

Tom Tom
06-05-2008, 07:14 PM
If you don't decide to run away from it - tell the guy what you'll for the $6k he wants to spend, without sacrificing quality.

Had a tract builder give a $2500 per lot budget a few years ago - so he got $2500 worth of quality irrigation on every lot (74 of 'em, too much $ to just walk away from). That's not to say they got complete coverage - some had nothing in backyard, some had single row of rotars throwing wild from house...

When it comes down to it, no matter what anyone says, YOU have to feed your family, and provide work for your employees so they can feed theirs.


Dana and I fix that stuff all the time.

I'll bet he has a story or 2:laugh:

Mike Leary
06-05-2008, 07:17 PM
Dana and I fix that stuff all the time.:

Good going that you guys have the patience & wherewithal to do it. :clapping:

DanaMac
06-05-2008, 07:19 PM
Good going that you guys have the patience & wherewithal to do it. :clapping:

Patience? What the hell is that? I need a few drinks right now.

Tom Tom
06-05-2008, 07:24 PM
Good going that you guys have the patience & wherewithal to do it. :clapping:

OR, he refers those calls to me :laugh:

Waterit
06-05-2008, 09:33 PM
I go back and fix that stuff, too.

My point was that if they only want to pay X $, you only give them X $ worth at the same quality.

FIMCO-MEISTER
06-05-2008, 10:27 PM
I go back and fix that stuff, too.

My point was that if they only want to pay X $, you only give them X $ worth at the same quality.

i see your point but it gives our industry a black eye when we let price dictate our quality. We have a responsibility to proper use of water. I'd still just walk away.

Mike Leary
06-05-2008, 10:34 PM
i see your point but it gives our industry a black eye when we let price dictate our quality. We have a responsibility to proper use of water. I'd still just walk away.

They're calling us spoiled elitists for doing it right. :rolleyes:

Waterit
06-05-2008, 11:52 PM
i see your point but it gives our industry a black eye when we let price dictate our quality. We have a responsibility to proper use of water. I'd still just walk away.

I didn't let price dictate quality - it dictated quantity. We installed $2500 worth of irrigation, properly spaced, matched precipitation, etc. The fact that only part of the lot was irrigated was the builder's choice - he could have gotten someone to do more for the same money, there's always someone willing to be a ***** for these guys. In most cases we were able to go back in and complete the systems directly for the HO.

FIMCO-MEISTER
06-06-2008, 09:03 AM
I didn't let price dictate quality - it dictated quantity. We installed $2500 worth of irrigation, properly spaced, matched precipitation, etc. The fact that only part of the lot was irrigated was the builder's choice - he could have gotten someone to do more for the same money, there's always someone willing to be a ***** for these guys. In most cases we were able to go back in and complete the systems directly for the HO.

I can see that better. Missed your point. Only do part of the job right. Set it up to add-on later.

DanaMac
06-06-2008, 09:21 AM
I know some builders here have the front only installed, and the back is left to the HO. There is also (ironicaly) a company in town that specializes in....... backyards only! Easy way for the builder to get something in fairly cheap, to give the curb appeal.

Waterit
06-06-2008, 10:02 AM
I can see that better. Missed your point. Only do part of the job right. Set it up to add-on later.

You got it.:waving: