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lawncare
12-28-2001, 04:12 PM
:angry: Here I am making my routes like I usually do my first 3 stops the yards are already cut don't matter much i told the help(customers had already sent my check for the month) so my 4th stop my customer comes out and said dedric "there are 4 hispanics riding around saying they will cut,edge, and trim any size yard for only 30 bucks.( the average yard on this part of town is the well to do area and im getting a min. of 75 bucks) So i get in the truck and call the other 4guys who cut in the area (we look out for each other) and told them whats going on. We get together and ride in the subdivision to find them sure enough they were on one of the other guys yard. 4 mexcican in a geo prizm with a 4x8 trailer no sides no nothing, with a 20 murray tied to it(not even self propel) so we talk to them and said we don't mind competition but 20bucks come on. So after a few more kind words i rather not say they left. So i told the others we better watch out they are into grass better get some contracts now.

thelawnguy
12-28-2001, 04:37 PM
So you are angry at them because their overhead is lower than yours? Because they dont discriminate from well-to-do neighborhoods vs. what other neighborhoods there are?

Suck it up, if your customers bailed on you due to price you were probably overpriced in the first place vs your quality of work.

TJLC
12-28-2001, 04:52 PM
It's kinda like that here too. I just try to keep my overhead as low as possible, do the best job I can, charge what my market will bear, and go from there. If people don't want to pay me what I feel is fair, I move on. The guys out there charging alot less are hurting themselves too, not just you. All my work comes from word of mouth. I know I'm not the cheapest here. If a guy wants to cut lawns for half of what I charge, whatever, knock yourself out. I'm fully licensed and insured and pay all my taxes. Do you think the cheap guys do? Don't let this bother you. Maybe you need to look at your price structure and/or overhead, I don't know. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, honest. Good luck.

vipermanz
12-28-2001, 05:09 PM
i think i have seen them around town!!!!

where are at in bham?

lawncare
12-28-2001, 05:30 PM
I not mad at the fact my block being invaded i do a lot for my cust. I don't have much overhead jsut the neccesatie ins. etc which allows me to do more for them such as the first cut and the last of the season is free. Every fifth cut i give them half off. if they refer me to a cust there next 1 is free no 1 does this round here but me thats what got me in the end. but you know what im not going to change im still doing the same

lawncare
12-28-2001, 06:57 PM
they were out in the greystone area

lawncare
12-28-2001, 07:02 PM
:D this brings up another subject how many of you guys remeber what kinda equipment you had when you first started. I didn't waNT ANY BILLS so i didnt buy anything on credit I had 2 22 inch craftsman mower, a rake, a pair of electric trimmers and blowers and it was hell pileing it in the back of a stationwagon.

Richard Martin
12-28-2001, 07:04 PM
thelawnguy wrote:
..........................
So you are angry at them because their overhead is lower than yours?
..........................

Their overhead is cheaper for a reason. In my area they are known to live 10 to 12 in an apartment at times. And a percentage of those those don't commonwealth an apartment are getting government subsidies (read Section 8 housing). A lot of these guys are the ultimate scrubs. They literally steal jobs from hard working Americans, pay what little bit of rent they owe and send the rest of the money back to whatever dirt bag country they came from.

lawncare needs to make sure his customers know that he is fully licensed and insured. He also needs to make sure he is doing the best job he can. It also doesn't hurt to remind your customers from time to time that you also have bills to pay and mouths to feed.

cajuncutter
12-28-2001, 07:23 PM
I kind of agree with Richard here. You want to fix them? Just ask for a business card. Welcome them into the industry. Once you get card or number write down license plate with them watching. Ask if they have a green card. If you get no response or if they crawfish out by saying it is at home ( should be in their posession at all times while working) tell them that ou believe in fair business and that you would kindly contact ins and BBB to make sure that they are insured and properly licensed. See what kind of response you get. My wife could not work in this country til she got her ss.# and green card..so why should they?!?!
Just my 2 cents :D :angel:

Chopper Lover
12-28-2001, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by cajuncutter
IAsk if they have a green card.

That little question alone will take care of all your business issues because you will be spending all your time in the slammer and all your money trying to get out. Per Federal Law only INS officials, or their designee's, are permitted to request Green Card Identification. If they report you for asking, you are done. Why take a chance?

As for the rest of it, I feel for you. Maybe you should consider educating your/thier customers about insurance and how the home owner would be liable should something bad occur as a result of the "new guys" mowing thier lawns.

Good luck!
Mark

Green Care
12-28-2001, 07:49 PM
Personally I would never do that to anyone quality speaks for itself.l

thelawnguy
12-28-2001, 09:24 PM
". I don't have much overhead jsut the neccesatie ins. etc which allows me to do more for them such as the first cut and the last of the season is free. Every fifth cut i give them half off. if they refer me to a cust there next 1 is free "

Once you calculate all the freebees you give away I'd bet your per cut price doesnt end up much more than them.

Do your "stolen" customers realize this? If not time to do some edumacating.

As someone else wrote, not trying to bust your chops just spelling it out like it is. Just like you started out with next to nothing so goes the neighborhood...

James234
12-28-2001, 11:02 PM
Gosh, I hope my garbage collector doesn't read this thread!

chicks-dig-lawn-guys
12-28-2001, 11:46 PM
Come on you have 3 other yard business's at your back......jump them. I know I wouldnt go back in a neighborhood that I just got jumped in! :D

Phat-MiKe
12-29-2001, 02:27 AM
What about new lawn businesses.. How far does this whole incedent go. What if other lawn businesses take eachothers clients.. If they just undercut the other guy.

Seriously, How far can it go.. In this case the new guys were hispanics.. Not very professional.. But they won the customer.

What the the new guy in this case is just a new lawn business, Professional image.. just starting out so they have lower prices. What are u to do in that situation? Let your cusomters go?

LAWNGODFATHER
12-29-2001, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by Chopper Lover
That little question alone will take care of all your business issues because you will be spending all your time in the slammer and all your money trying to get out. Per Federal Law only INS officials, or their designee's, are permitted to request Green Card Identification. If they report you for asking, you are done. Why take a chance?

As an employer you must ask for SS card and/or green card from applying applicants.

But if not their employer then yes.

chicks-dig-lawn-guys
12-29-2001, 02:32 AM
I have learned that you have to go beyond just knowing them as customers.....you have to become friends. I have customers that wouldnt let other cut thier yards because I build relationships. If you do that then you will never lose a yard

Paradise Yard Service
12-29-2001, 02:32 AM
In a state where everthing is 30% higher than all others it would seem ridiculous to have anything but top dollar accounts. Unfortunately, the mindset we fight off here in the Aloha State is 'we like to do this bidness cause we like nature or we like the exercise.'
Meanwhile, Kailua esp. has more millionares than you can shake a stick at. So, remember some good advise and it is all wrapped up in these simple words, and I quote, "Its not that you are too expensive, its just that the customer can't afford you." So, as someone posted MOVE ON!
The lowballers will get whats coming-backaches,hemoroids,hernias,depression. And then move on to be replaced by more lowballers.
Thats all for now.


Saying Aloha for now.

Aloha,
P.Y.S.

vipermanz
12-29-2001, 02:51 AM
that's funny because greystone is 7 digit and up houses

David Haggerty
12-29-2001, 06:57 AM
Sounds like you have something worse than lowballers.

Illegal imigrant workers aren't burdened with any of the added cost of doing business in the U.S. Like paying taxes or carrying insurance. You can't possibly compete with them on price.

Some states are more reluctant to persue these guys than others. In Ohio I have to show proof of residency to hire my own son! And that's fine by me.

All you can do is the one thing they can't do..Make sure you're 100% legitimate. Then, if and when the "wheels of justice" go into action, you'll come out on top.

I personally thing they should go after the homeowner who hires these illegals. But I can't think of any way to make that happen. Can you?

Dave

HOMER
12-29-2001, 07:12 AM
Heck, if their that cheap hire em! Think of the money you could make...............start 4 crews............low overhead, buy Murrays.

I'd hate to know my customers bailed on me that way, they would be getting a nice-tee letter from ol Homer.

The invasion hasn't started down here yet, time will change all that I'm sure.

HacMan91
12-29-2001, 09:10 PM
Were starting to get an influx of hispanic workers here in Montgomery. The guys I see are working for a couple of the big lawn services. But the good customers should know they get what they pay for. Around here you can get a guy with a push mower and a pick up to cut for 15 or 20 bucks and the ones Ive seen look like they were cut for that amount. I guess it will hurt worse when it happens to me.

strickdad
12-29-2001, 09:32 PM
[ I quote, "Its not that you are too expensive, its just that the customer can't afford you." these are words to live by for the ones of us that dont care to compete with lowballers.

KirbysLawn
12-30-2001, 01:11 AM
It's funny the same people always defend the "lowballers". It's not just the equipment overhead that must be considered it's the insurance, license, workers comp, and TAXES. While it may be ok with some that charge "whatever" because they have low overhead, it's not ok thay they do not comply to local, state, and federal laws.

Robert Doubrava
12-30-2001, 08:04 PM
You know what? There is a similar group of guys runnin' around here, too!! I used to cut a yard for this family, and they moved, but we still cut it for them. For free, that is. (financial problems). And one day, 3 guys came. ALL they had was two Murray push mowers, two Weed Eater brand trimmers, and a blower. It really steamed me. They did not even do a good job, either!!:angry: Now, all I have is my neighbor's yard across the street from me. I know I won't loose that one because the lady is a good friend of my mom's.

wesLESCO48
12-30-2001, 09:11 PM
Hi, sorry to hear about your hardship with your client.
I live in alabaster and i see more and more mexicans
in my part of town. Although i haven't seen them working
independently in the lawn care business, but rather working
for other companys.
Reading your post was a little discouraging. I started in this
business last year part time and was planning to go full
time this summer when i become a full time college student.
Oh well, i guess i'll just have to find a descent part time
night job as a CNC machinist. If any of the members in
or around the B'ham area know of any, please let me know.

XOFMOT
12-30-2001, 09:15 PM
As we all know, this is happening across this great country of OURS. I really can't think of a way to end this. I don't worry about that $20.00 a yard scrub, I'm more concerned about the more established companies in my area! We all know, or at least hope, that any person(s) who are out there charging $20.00 a yard, are not going to be out there for long if they are a legal business. But, if they are conducting business illegaly WE MUST REPORT THEM TO AUTHORITIES ! It's your business that you need to protect. I know it seems like a pain in the @$$, but isn't your business worth it?

65hoss
12-31-2001, 04:17 AM
If your surprised by this type of thing now, wait until spring. :eek:

Who cares if there overhead is low? A fair price for the work is important. If not, the prices just keep getting driven down. If the job is worth $50 and my overhead is $20 and yours is $10, should you charge less just to get the job? NO!!! IT IS STILL WORTH $50. YOU JUST MAKE MORE PROFIT. EVENTUALLY YOUR OVERHEAD WILL GO UP TOOOOOOO! YOU WILL SOMEDAY BUY A BETTER MOWER AND EQUIPMENT. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO THEN, GO UP ON PRICES?? THEY WILL LEAVE YOU FOR SOMEONE ELSE LIKE YOU. CHEAPER.

Also, these people have no idea what overhead is. Most of them think the entire $20 they made of the 1/2 acre lawn is total profit. haha. I guess that is why when the weather gets to 100, they ditch this job. No insurance or anything, and they still don't make anything. They just don't know it yet. They find out after 1 or 2 seasons and they are out of "business".

LAWNS AND MOWER
12-31-2001, 11:53 AM
lawncare-- Do you really want to keep these customers that will drop you to save a few bucks? I know I'm not the cheapest in my area but I do quality work, show up every week, insured, etc... This goes a long way in keeping clients. Good Luck!!

LAWNS AND MOWER

TurfGuyTX
12-31-2001, 12:15 PM
I've dealt with the same scenario for several years now. I've only lost a few customers to the lowballers. I've had a few former customers contact me later only to find out that I'm no longer available or only available for more money.

James234
12-31-2001, 10:08 PM
Sears was once the biggest retail outlet. Then came Kmart and now Walmart. If you guys keep thinking like this you're gonna end up like Wards. The consumer will weed you out.:eek:

XOFMOT
01-01-2002, 08:42 AM
James234, We all know that QUALITY and a LOW PRICE is what everyone wants. But, in order to offer the LOW PRICE that "EVERYONE" wants, a LCO must have some pretty low overhead. This 2002 season, it is going to cost me $27.00 just to drop my gate on the trailer! What ever I make over that is MY PROFIT! I'm lucky enough that the clientel that I offer my services to are the HIGH END customer. Most proerties are a minimum of 1.5 acres and my "CHEAPEST" property that I service is at $60.00 per week. (WAIT! I take that back, I do a couple of family friends homes and they are at $30.00 week as well as my first customers at $30.00 a week). I want my business to grow, I want to leave something for my children, I may never become a BRICKMAN GROUP or a CHEMLAWN, but I will plan on being the best! Like I said before, I'm not worried about the "FOREIGNER" stealing any business from me. Sure they might get one or two of my penny pinching customers, LET THEM! I'd bet that 95% of my service area would laugh at them, and not even trust them on their property! I LOVE COMPETITION!

gkell88
01-02-2002, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by HacMan91
Were starting to get an influx of hispanic workers here in Montgomery. The guys I see are working for a couple of the big lawn services. But the good customers should know they get what they pay for. .

I don't know about the "Good Customers" but I know what the mowing companies tell me they get for hiring Hispanic help:

They get men(and a few women) who show up every day, on time. They do what you ask, and in return they deliver a fair days work.

They take pride in their work, and are grateful for the opportunity. I don't know about where you live, but hell will freeze over before you find a crew full of "American boys" that meet those qualifications in my area.

You won't even get a a full crew to apply. We live in a climate controlled country full of lardass young people who know the ins and outs of an X-Box or Nintendo, but wouldn't break a sweat for a fair days wage if held a gunpoint.

I agree with what someone else has said. Rather than running these guys down, and giving them a tongue lashing, you should've offered them jobs, with some training and benefits, and you would've had some grateful employees on your hands, rather than a low-ball competitor.

walker-talker
01-02-2002, 09:56 AM
gkell88,

I agree to a degree. I work in a factory and the hipanic turn over rate is very low compared to any other race. I took a couple of semesters of spanish at my local college and I work well with them. I told myself years ago, if I ever had a labor intensive busy, I would hire hispanics. The fact is, America is a land of opportunities. America offers a good-living. That is something these people are not use to in Mexico. Some hispanics that I work with say they only earned $10 a day in Mexico, now they get that in 1 hour. I know which I would rather have!

MATT

Twotoros
01-02-2002, 03:12 PM
This problem isn't going away soon. Those of us out west and the S.W. have been fighting this for years. It will filter down into all professions driving those wages down. Soon more people won't be able to pay their bills so they run out and start a LCC to supplement their income. That is what has happened here in eastren Wa. Come on - 125+ lco's in a county of 265,000 people 3/4 of which can't afford lawncare. Them is slim pickens.
I would not even call them lowballers any longer. Call them survialists!
My answer last year was to cancel my hard phoneline and yellow page listing. Then I gave the state licensing dept. a talking too about how 'if you don't crack down I will go under.' Answer is always the same. "No man power".
Next I folded my biz in the eyes of the state.
In December I canceled my lisence with the city.
As soon as I purchase a new home in a couple of years I will stop paying fereral taxes.

Can't beat'em (I tried) So I join 'em (forced to) I am a survialist.
I will survive and nobody will stop me. Call me a cheater if you will . I don't care any more. I am at war. I will survive.


Sound harsh? Think about it awhile. Keep your eyes open. You may be joining me soon.:blob2:

FM2920
01-02-2002, 05:30 PM
Gear your business towards larger lawns and projects. You won't have to worry about a lowballer pushin a 21" around an 1-2 acre lot during the midsummer months.

Sean Adams
01-02-2002, 11:29 PM
K-Mart, Wal Mart, Scrubs, Illegals, Green Cards....

There are a lot of angles to this topic. Your business is your baby. You care about it, you nurture it, and you certainly don't like seeing someone steal your income. Someone posted that if you have taken the time to develop relationships with your clients it will be few and far between that let you go. This is true to a point. Salesmanship and the power of persuasive education play a role here as well. As the industry continues to change, you, like many other business owners in many other industries have 2 options - remain as you are and complain (which we all do to some degree) or change. If that means hiring hispanic labor to compete, then do it. If it means developing a new and never seen before marketing strategy, then do it. If it means finding ways to save money and increase your bottom line, do it. Even if it means competing with these people, do it. The survival of the fittest is becoming increasingly prevalent in this industry. Do what you have to do. It may mean hard times or an unpleasant transition period, but it will save your business.

Sean Adams

walker-talker
01-03-2002, 09:38 AM
Sean,

Very well put. I like the way you think.

MATT

racer56
01-03-2002, 11:33 PM
Same thing is happening in our area. This was our first and last year doing it for ourselves. I thought if I contracted alot of jobs beofre even starting we would be doing well but about 75% of signed contracts bailed for the low bid when it came and most didn't even bother telling me until sometimes the day I showed to do the service. I have worked for my Dad for several years and each year it seems that price wins out just abit more each year. In the Kansas City the hispanic pop. has increased 2 fold in the last 5 years but most of the low bids are coming from guys that have been doing it for years and think if they can "make" 100.00 per day that's good money. THe last part of the year we tried to charge for a consultation fee to weed out the shoppers and the customers didn't go for it. THey all said thesame thing about every other lawn co does this for free. I just had a guy come look at the furnace as it's not running as well as in the past and he looked in it closed it up handed me an estimate for replacement and a bill for his time(90.00) and within 15 minutes he was on his way. I wish lco owners would pull there head out and all start charging.
As for quality over price, we started telling guys that would call we could get it shorter than what it was for say 25.00 or do a quality job for 32.50 and they all said they just wanted it shorter and this was in nicer areas of town. Most of the big guys around here buy an expensive z-turn for great production time to only just work cheaper per hour to get more jobs, can you say bang your head against the wall!!
When a company gives up the fight do most sell off the equipment on here or try and sell out to someone local? I have several jobs lined up for next year and a fair amount of equipment but have lost the desire and just want to work for a lawn company in the area. I think the thing that got to me the most was the help deal. I always had the work but hardly ever had the help. I don't think it was about the money either as I pd guys to start 15.00 bought luch every day and pd them thru lunch-time yet the next day I never could count on them. I would like some advise on selling out our stuff, I live in Olathe, Kansas a sub of Kansas City.

Twotoros
01-04-2002, 03:38 PM
Time saving idea # 1

I have toyed with the idea of offically trimming every other mow. I did it that way for the most part last half of '01 for the most part and did not tell the customer.
I informed customers in a letter sent with the calendar I gave them . It says that there are no increases in prices of any services I offer this year. (They'll love that.) I also state the change in trimming. And that I will hit spots where trimming is a must every week but not the whole property.
Other changes were in scheduling to streamline the route. No more than five minutes between jobs once I get to a given area.
By trimming less I should be able to take on 10 more accounts without adding more time to the week.
I can't be a good scrub without cutting corners:blush:
This is war.
I actually used to trim that way until 98. I find myself only walking around with a trimmer that second week mostly. If it is done proper the first week there usually isn't a problem.

LAWNS AND MOWER
01-05-2002, 10:02 AM
TwoToro's-- I hear you loud and clear. I've been trimming everyother week for years now. When we have a dry spell sometimes I can go every 3 weeks. This saves so much time and the quality of work doesn't suffer all that much. Just be sure to stagger the accounts so that your not trimming every acct in the same week. I have this one acct that is fertilize heavy and is mowed every 5 days so naturally trimming everyother cut is no big deal. Lady tells me this fall that she wants me to trim every cut in the spring and to charge her more!!!

LAWNS AND MOWER

Eng Mwr Guy
01-05-2002, 12:12 PM
It is almost as bad as Landscaper's who make a living using equipment and insist on purchasing an inferior piece of equipment or even better a homeowner piece of equipment in order to "save money".

I very much understand your frustrations.

Barry
Gravely Guy

racer56
01-05-2002, 12:59 PM
I hear alot of guys here talk about reporting the illegal companies that are stealing our money if you will. I have tried to report them several times but our local and state watchdogs fell it is good for the resisdents as they say they help keep our prices down and make it more affordable to the town's residents. I about feel over when I heard that from our City Manager! At the dump or wherever I see someone in the bus. that I haven't talked to before I always go over and introduce myself and talk abit but before I go I always encourage them to charge a fair price. I tell them I don't even start to trim shrubs without a 150.00 min. Most tell me they do it for 10.00 per shrub for smaller ones but they are just working for free IMO.

Twotoros
01-05-2002, 03:03 PM
If your local or state government won't help you stay honest then it is time to screw them. Don't renew licenses. Don't pay state sales tax . Pocket it. All is fair in war. Become a cheat like the enemy. I am stating my 17th year and have been honest to a fault until July of '01. Now I am getting even as much as possible. Pay your fed taxes so you can prove a living but screw the states. Screw your city. If they approve of scrubs then why be honest. My city is the same, yet they ***** about sales tax revenue. Same with my stink'n state. I approve of becoming a scrub. Do it today. All power to the ultra small business man!!!! :blob2:

racer56
01-05-2002, 04:38 PM
We are taking the off-season to relocate to southern Missouri, I'm sure the smae problems are everywhere but my wife is transfering. THe local government here looks after the big companies but just sees the little ones like me as a thorn in the side for the big companies. I think they feel like getting rid of companies like mine is helping the big companies but it doesn't as they don't want most of the jobs I do. I companies like mine moved out of the area more " scrubs" would come in and lower the prices even further. I wish all owners would come together and start to charge a min. consultation fee and try not cutting the guy down the streets throat and maybe we would all be better off. I don't like working for free but it seems the largest percentage of owners in this area do.

lawncare
01-06-2002, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by wesLESCO48
Hi, sorry to hear about your hardship with your client.
I live in alabaster and i see more and more mexicans
in my part of town. Although i haven't seen them working
independently in the lawn care business, but rather working
for other companys.
Reading your post was a little discouraging. I started in this
business last year part time and was planning to go full
time this summer when i become a full time college student.
Oh well, i guess i'll just have to find a descent part time
night job as a CNC machinist. If any of the members in
or around the B'ham area know of any, please let me know.


Well if you're going to quit send me your business the more the merrier on my end I'm working my way through that part of town anyway so i'll be the lowballer when i get there lol

James234
01-06-2002, 11:12 PM
I've got to laugh when I see one business make a suggestion to another that "we need to charge a fair price". The market determines the price. As for the fellow that wants the local city manager to get involved or he won't pay his taxes, well enough said. The law will put him out of business.

thelandscaper27
01-12-2002, 11:22 AM
I was reding this thread (4 Pages). And I have questions.
You have your customers on contracts. Can you sue the low ballers for taking your contracted customers?

I'm sure you can also remind you contracted customers about the contract. Can they legally cancel your contract with-out telling you?

TurfGuyTX
01-14-2005, 10:20 PM
I was reding this thread (4 Pages). And I have questions.
You have your customers on contracts. Can you sue the low ballers for taking your contracted customers?

I'm sure you can also remind you contracted customers about the contract. Can they legally cancel your contract with-out telling you?

Contracts are all different. Ours call for 30 days written notice.

lawnprosteveo
01-14-2005, 11:57 PM
Ask your customer what will happen if one of those Hispanic gentlemen they are switching to accidentally hurts himself while mowing their property? I'm sure they have a worker's compensation policy. Or if they break a window? I'm sure they have a copy of their liability insurance.

Gautreaux's LNG
01-15-2005, 09:57 AM
I say you pull over the truck full of "Hispanics" and hire them to cut your lawns for $30.00, send the bill to your customers for $50.00 and enjoy that round of golf!!!!! :cool:

Harleyboy52
01-15-2005, 11:46 AM
2 21inch electric Craftsman mower
1 18inch Black and decker with bag
1 Eletric hedge Trimmer
2 Craftsman Electric handheld blower
350ft xtension cord
few rakes and shovels and a broom
el camino with a 454 motor
Pickup truck bed with wheels

Maybe they just got tired of you using their electricity. Just joking, but I've never seen an all electric lawn boy operation.

Jeff@SGLC.ca
01-15-2005, 12:26 PM
Was that for real?

smlavin
01-15-2005, 02:04 PM
This thread is 3 years old :dizzy: so they probably worked it out by now. :D

yrdandgardenhandyman
01-15-2005, 02:28 PM
As we all know, this is happening across this great country of OURS. I really can't think of a way to end this. I don't worry about that $20.00 a yard scrub, I'm more concerned about the more established companies in my area! We all know, or at least hope, that any person(s) who are out there charging $20.00 a yard, are not going to be out there for long if they are a legal business. But, if they are conducting business illegaly WE MUST REPORT THEM TO AUTHORITIES ! It's your business that you need to protect. I know it seems like a pain in the @$$, but isn't your business worth it?


Futile. The "AUTHORITIES" won't even enforce trade laws. If you encourage enforcement of trade laws you are called "isolationist" and "protectionist". If you report scrubs, you are called racist, anti competition or worse. When it comes to the money of the wealthy, we can't win. What would happen if I opened a store using Wal Mart's business model but paid no taxes, no insurance, no work comp. and start putting the hurt on them. They will nail you so fast it'd make your head swim. And with the help of local and national legislatures. Why should it be any different for small business people like us? Because we are too busy judging each other.
Choose your clients carefully.

JustMowIt
01-17-2005, 12:25 PM
thelawnguy wrote:
..........................
So you are angry at them because their overhead is lower than yours?
..........................

Their overhead is cheaper for a reason. In my area they are known to live 10 to 12 in an apartment at times. And a percentage of those those don't commonwealth an apartment are getting government subsidies (read Section 8 housing). A lot of these guys are the ultimate scrubs. They literally steal jobs from hard working Americans, pay what little bit of rent they owe and send the rest of the money back to whatever dirt bag country they came from.

lawncare needs to make sure his customers know that he is fully licensed and insured. He also needs to make sure he is doing the best job he can. It also doesn't hurt to remind your customers from time to time that you also have bills to pay and mouths to feed.

Where did you get your information about these immigrants getting any type of goverment assistance? I have dealt with hispanic immigrants for a long time & if they are here illegally they would never apply for goverment assistance, or step within a hundred miles of a goverment facilty! In my area there are no "hard working americans" applying to work for us, so whose jobs are they stealing? The lawncare industry would not exist if immigrant help disappeared. Who would do all the nasty hard jobs that 99.9% of Americans think they are too good to do?

As a company we also face 1 man operators, kids, start up operations, etc..., but the best defense is to let the customer know the differences and why you charge more, then let them try the other guy, usually if it is a good customer, they will come back!

TJ

JustMowIt
01-17-2005, 12:31 PM
Ask your customer what will happen if one of those Hispanic gentlemen they are switching to accidentally hurts himself while mowing their property? I'm sure they have a worker's compensation policy. Or if they break a window? I'm sure they have a copy of their liability insurance.


That is a good point, we often remind customers that many 1 man operators, kids, etc.. do not have insurance or enough financial backing to replace damaged property or other problems.

dishboy
01-17-2005, 12:40 PM
In my area there are no "hard working americans" applying to work for us, so whose jobs are they stealing? The lawncare industry would not exist if immigrant help disappeared. Who would do all the nasty hard jobs that 99.9% of Americans think they are too good to do?

TJ

I disagree, if there was no "immigrant " labor available the work would be getting done by solo operators making a living wage instead of rates that have not moved significantly in twenty years. You would be out of a job and I would be doing it.

Rollacosta
01-17-2005, 12:48 PM
So you are angry at them because their overhead is lower than yours? Because they dont discriminate from well-to-do neighborhoods vs. what other neighborhoods there are?

Suck it up, if your customers bailed on you due to price you were probably overpriced in the first place vs your quality of work.

YOU CALL YOURSELF A BUSINESSMAN ? YOUR ATTITUDE IS PATHETIC !!!!!!..I HOPE YOU GO BUST :waving:

afftandem
01-17-2005, 01:06 PM
Turn them in!!!!!!
"quality of work keeps my customers" is the stupidest reply to this..
for some this is true, but plenty will opt for the cheaper price regardless of quality.
this is a problem that is getting outta hand.
each year, we have more and more competition with illegals. It continues to get worse.
Some are getting gov. benefits and working odd jobs making good money!
THIS HAS TO STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Explain to your customers that with the rights granted to them, they have absolute rights to sue the homeowner if they trip, cut off a toe, etc.... explain to the homeowner that, because of this, that a one time mow could cost 'em over $10k.. no workmans comp, no insurance, but enough knowledge to call a lawyer.

Besides, whoever said you cant ask for a greencard, get some balls!
if they are illegal, theyre not goin to report you!
just say u didnt ask for it.. "he said, she said"
and who has given the government the right to tell you what questions you can ask or not ask...
you can always ask, but they dont have to reply.

Granted they are hard workers... and plenty of americans you can hire are lazy.... keep your quality of work up and this will help you, i agree, but you have to report them, and if it ticks your customer off, so what, u just lost them anyways! REPORT! REPORT! REPORT!

and if nuthn is done.... consider filing suit against you county/city officials (whoever) for not enforcing the law.. if you can show loss of business then its absolutely legit... oh, you wont win, but if you have the means do it.. its time to take back our jobs!

they cant make their own country run, why should they come here and *$&## up ours????

beransfixitinc
01-17-2005, 01:08 PM
I would suggest contacting your local "workforce commission" and applying for gov. assistance benifits under that program that assists with lost jobs due to foreign imports.

http://www.govbenefits.gov/govbenefits/benefits/report.jhtml?dispatch=browse&bid=94