Super Z Kohler 27hp no power/knocking

[ssgnai]

I have 234 hrs on a 2004 72" Super Z with the 27hp Kohler engine. Change oil regularly. Always experienced the smoke at startup, backfire at shutdown, etc mentioned in other posts here.

Daughter was mowing and came in saying it had limited power and was making a funny noise. Went out and listened. Regular sound at idle, knocking loudly at 3/4 throttle and above.

Dipstick shows oil low - less than 1/2 way between fill marks, smoke coming lazily out of dipstick tube. 87 degrees today. Oil cooler looks slightly clogged, but not totally plugged. Original spark plug, fuel filter probably needs to be changed.

I'm worried about the loss of power and knocking. I'll get a new plug and fuel filter, but I worry that isn't the problem. What should I be looking for? I check the oil when I use it and keep it full, but have been traveling and am not sure it gets checked by my son and daughter.

Anyone with tips/similar experience?

Thanks,

Steve

[mowerconsultant]

Get this mower to your dealer ASAP to prevent any more damage, if iit already has started.

[ssgnai]

Update:

Diagnosis - bad cam (worn lobes). Kohler sent a short block at no charge, but I was stuck with the $950 bill for the labor.

Doesn't seem right that an engine with 234 hours (properly maintained), would have a cam failure. I think Kohler must agree, otherwise they wouldn't have sent the part.

Its just no way to treat a customer. Having sent other business to Hustler, I'm now referring friends to other brands and other engines.

[mowerconsultant]

I am really disappointed to hear it was a cam failure, but at the same time Kohler did partially warranty a unit that was a couple years out of warranty, I think that says a lot right there.
I am sorry you feel otherwise, and I am also disappointed you wouldn't recommend the Hustler product due to a problem with Kohler.

Pj

[ssgnai]

Thank you for your input.

Hustler uses a variety of parts from many suppliers - from hydraulic units to wheels and tires, etc. Arguably the engine is the single most important part. That it would fail this early is just not right. Hustler should stand behind all its components (like the lifetime deck warranty) or let the purchaser deal directly with the supplier. I was not allowed to talk with the Kohler rep.

I would be more understanding if a part had failed for lack of use or misuse or poor maintenance. Surely the engineer/practical fellow in you is as miffed as I that a CAM SHAFT would fail like this. A soft cast of the lobes is the type of hardness test that should have been tested for. Assuming Kohler does that type of testing, a poor part slipped through and providing a free short block is the easy way out - very little pain for Kohler doing that. Plenty of pain for me however.

The rest of the Hustler machine works fine. But what good is it with a faulty engine?

[WildLake]

I had the same problem on a 27/60 lazer w/1200hrs. Dealer said its normal and happens even when you keep up on scheduled maintenance. Cost me 700-800 for the cam, a set of lifters and labor.

[ssgnai]

Normal schmormal. I've turned several buyers away from my dealer and this brand. Caveat Emptor.

[mowerconsultant]

Normal schmormal. I've turned several buyers away from my dealer and this brand. Caveat Emptor.

I am sorry you feel this way.
Kohler supplied you a very expensive shortblock at no charge when the mower was out of warranty by at least 2 years.
I feel they took care of you very nicely.

Pj

[ssgnai]

PJ,

What engineering, casting/forging, testing, and assembly could you possibly conceive of that has a cam failure in 234 hours of use? A warranty tied to age in years for steel is an immaterial measure and an accounting/legal device to not have to track things. Provided there is proper lubrication (and the analysis showed no signs of improper lubrication), there is no excuse. The shortblock they provided is tacit admission of the problem.

I'm way over feeling anything about it. The facts, however, stand for themselves.

BTW, I have had one other cam failure in my years of experience. A '69 Fiat Spyder 800.

[mowerconsultant]

PJ,

What engineering, casting/forging, testing, and assembly could you possibly conceive of that has a cam failure in 234 hours of use? A warranty tied to age in years for steel is an immaterial measure and an accounting/legal device to not have to track things. Provided there is proper lubrication (and the analysis showed no signs of improper lubrication), there is no excuse. The shortblock they provided is tacit admission of the problem.

I'm way over feeling anything about it. The facts, however, stand for themselves.

BTW, I have had one other cam failure in my years of experience. A '69 Fiat Spyder 800.

These are questions you would need to ask Kohler, I am not a engineer.
Kohler's phone # is 800.544.2444
The fact is that they took care of you after the Kohler engine was 2 years out of warranty.

Pj

[ssgnai]

PJ

I do believe you are trying to help. Thank you. I've been to Kohler's website, emailed them, and called them. They won't talk to me since I'm neither a dealer, nor a manufacturer. If you have a contact or way in that I can use, I'm happy to do it.

The fact remains, I got a poor cam. If used by a commercial firm, it would have failed the first season of use.

I'm just the poor sap with multiple acres to cut and would rather have good equipment and teach my teens the value of hard work than buy a lesser quality device at 1/2 the price. I looked at Heckendorn's, used 14' Excel's, Dixon's, Marty J's, and several others I've long since forgotten. None seemed to be the right device.

My conclusion? If you aren't going to use the heck out of your Hustler during the warranty period, you could be in my situation.

[Jimslawncareservice]

why would you turn people away from a certain brand because of engine failure? It wasn't a hustler engine, it was a kohler. I am sure you would have been charged labor by any other manufacture dealer. If dealer offered lifetime warrenty on everything important there would be no need to buy new mowers now would there? you know things just happen for one reason or another. but to really find out you need to talk to someone at kohler. i know people who have over 3000 hours on kohler with no problems.

[djagusch]

PJ,

What engineering, casting/forging, testing, and assembly could you possibly conceive of that has a cam failure in 234 hours of use? A warranty tied to age in years for steel is an immaterial measure and an accounting/legal device to not have to track things. Provided there is proper lubrication (and the analysis showed no signs of improper lubrication), there is no excuse. The shortblock they provided is tacit admission of the problem.

I'm way over feeling anything about it. The facts, however, stand for themselves.

BTW, I have had one other cam failure in my years of experience. A '69 Fiat Spyder 800.

So in your mind that motor should be in warranty for how long? 234 Hrs is about a half season for me. So should it be 1000hrs, 5000hrs, or what? What's your solution?

This is what I will say though. When you bought the mower you knew the warranty and that is what you paid for. It was nice that they sent you a short block with it 2 years out of warranty. In the warranty world they call this good will. Unfortunately customers don't understand, they just did you a huge favor. They did not need to do anything. The warranty was up and still your responses here are proof they should of done nothing.

[pugs]

Yah, first I will say dont badmouth hustler. You could have bought a Bobcat, Scag, Exmark or whatever and had the same problem with a Kohler....bad mouth Kohler if you want to.


Second, Kohler could have said your warranty ended 2 years ago...good luck to you. They gave you shortblock that probably sells for $700-1000 for nothing.

Honestly if this had been a Kawasaki, you probably would have got nothing.

I would think Kohler has some kind of line that you could call and complain about your situation. I know Kawasaki has a special number just for this type of thing.

[puppypaws]

Yah, first I will say dont badmouth hustler. You could have bought a Bobcat, Scag, Exmark or whatever and had the same problem with a Kohler....bad mouth Kohler if you want to.


Second, Kohler could have said your warranty ended 2 years ago...good luck to you. They gave you shortblock that probably sells for $700-1000 for nothing.

Honestly if this had been a Kawasaki, you probably would have got nothing.

I would think Kohler has some kind of line that you could call and complain about your situation. I know Kawasaki has a special number just for this type of thing.

I am sorry for the gentleman and feel his aggravation; but this is one of the problems that comes with machinery occasionally. Kohler was nice to provide the parts, had it been Kawasaki all he would have heard was, "sayonara."

Kohler has no knowledge of how this engine had been treated, no matter what anyone may say. Believe me, they have heard every story known to man; trying to get parts and labor covered on blown engines.