PDA

View Full Version : Doing zero turns with a single-drive walk behind...


dmbhmg
01-02-2002, 11:44 AM
I have a Ferris SD 36" walk-behind (SD meaning single drive hyd.) My question is , when I do zero turns, I do this by forward motion, and holding the brake on one side, am I putting too much stress on my machine(transmission)? I am assuming that a DD(Dual-drive) has two transmissions, one for each side, so you could do zero turns without using the brake on one side?(not sure on this...)

This is my first walk-behind, not to mention my first hydrostatic, so this question may be an easy one.

Thanks for any help..........

Richard Martin
01-02-2002, 12:21 PM
I have a few hours behind the handlebars of a Woods (Ferris clone) single drive. It does not hurt the transaxle in any way to lock one wheel up while the other is rotating. In fact you can have one wheel turning forward while the other turns backwards.

dmbhmg
01-02-2002, 12:35 PM
I thought you could have one wheel go forward and one go back only on the dual drive models,(like a skid-steer..?), but not with a single drive unit........Thanks for the reply....

Richard Martin
01-02-2002, 03:41 PM
Since the brakes on mine didn't work (bought it used, no dealers anywhere near me) I had to learn how to operate it without the use of the brakes. It you give it a slight bit of forward motion and then pull backwards on one of the handlebars you can get one wheel to go forward while the other one goes backward. It's not as hard to do as it sounds and with a little bit of trial and effort you can do lots of stuff with a SD mower. If you slow down as you enter a turn and pull on the handlebar of the side you are turning to you don't even need the brakes and the mower will just whip right around.

LAWNGODFATHER
01-02-2002, 06:04 PM
On a Ferris SD you use the brakes to make your turns. It has 1 hydrostatic transmission, turns on the inside wheel. On a duel drive hydrostatic, it has a true zero turning radius, meaning you could turn one wheel forwards and one backwards.

On the Ferris DD it has (2) two hydro trannies, a sealed low pressure system, it does not have actual brakes but a pin that locks the tranny up. You do not use it to turn.

On the Ferris SD it has (1) Hydro tranni, (2) two disk brakes, (1) one on each wheel, you use the brakes to make the machine turn.

Each of these configurations are made the way their made and neither will hurt the machines if you turn.

The Ferris SD is an inexpensive hydro unit. It is designed to run like a hydro and turn like a belt drive.

Richard: that's a lot of extra work, I'm surprized you haven't fixed that yet.

GLS
01-02-2002, 06:34 PM
As Richard said, it shouldn't hurt the transmission to stop one wheel...You may have noticed if you ever get stuck, one wheel stops, and the other takes all of the power...If you have both the wheels jacked up off the ground, one will go foward, and one will go backward (unless you have a differential lock). Thus, it should not hurt the tranny.

Ryan

dmbhmg
01-02-2002, 06:42 PM
Thanks to all that replied, this has put my mind at ease...

Richard Martin
01-02-2002, 07:05 PM
LawnGodFather wrote:
..............................
Richard: that's a lot of extra work, I'm surprized you haven't fixed that yet.
..............................

Well ,as I explained there were no dealers near me. It really wasn't that big of a deal to turn it without brakes anyway. I sold the mower (it was a 1990 model) in 2000 for $750 and it's still cutting grass for a LCO.

Henry
01-02-2002, 08:41 PM
Doesn't it tear up the lawn when you brake to turn?

dmbhmg
01-02-2002, 08:54 PM
It does tear up the lawn if you completely lock one of the wheels, but if you just slow one side down, you shouldn't tear it up to badly(not a true zero turn then...)

LAWNGODFATHER
01-03-2002, 12:52 AM
It take technique, but it does not tear up the turf.

That happens if your GOING TO FAST.

How do you think that a WB turns?

True zero turn is not necessary, how do you think they mowed before zero turning mowers?

I ran belt drives for years and rarely tore any turf up.

As with any mower it take technique to use.

johnnywalker
01-03-2002, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by LAWNGODFATHER
It take technique, but it does not tear up the turf.

I ran belt drives for years and rarely tore any turf up.



I'll bet the belts ran alot slower than the hydros on the turns. Half the technique with the dinasaurs is a slower turning method.

LAWNGODFATHER
01-03-2002, 01:59 AM
I run all hydro's or ZTR's, and 1 belt 36".

Turn all WB's just like they were belts, but they will smoke a belt drive any were and every were.

Nathan
01-03-2002, 06:17 PM
There is a reason the single hydro's are so cheap, they aren't worth while for commercial use. Most quality customers will not settle for tear marks on each turn.
Spend the extra money on a true hydro or accept the fact that you will only retain lesser quality customers.

LAWNGODFATHER
01-03-2002, 07:41 PM
Nathan: is this just your thought or fact?

Either way it is untrue. There is absolutly nothing wrong with belt drive or single drive hydros. They do not tear turf up at ever turn, as a matter of fact, a hydro will tear up the turf more than a belt drive.

As far as retainging customers, an LCO here runs 230 52" belt drives, yes 230. They have no problem retaining customers.

Cheap, aint nothing cheap.

Richard Martin
01-04-2002, 04:40 AM
I should also point out that the Ferris single drive hydro has been in production longer than any other hydro walkbehind mower. I used one of these mowers for a long time and there never was any problem with tearing up turf on turns.

Just so Nathan knows, these mowers aren't exactly cheap. The pricing usually falls right in between a belt drive and a dual hydro mower.

Nathan
01-04-2002, 08:07 PM
You guys may have had other experience but we have gained many customers after they fired other companies for tearing up grass with the mowers. Yes, I have used all three types of mowers and agree that belt drives are very easy to turn without tearing turf, dual hydro's are even easier. If anyone thinks that a dual hydro is difficult to turn without tearing, they need more experience. Anyhow, my question is why you would put your services at a disadvantage by starting out with less than the best equipment. It is true that you have to spend money to make money.

LAWNGODFATHER
01-04-2002, 08:21 PM
why you would put your services at a disadvantage by starting out with less than the best equipment. It is true that you have to spend money to make money.

That's been my saying for many years.

we have gained many customers after they fired other companies for tearing up grass with the mowers.

That's because they were piss poor LCO's not the mowers.

The mower doesn't tear the turf up, the operator does.

dmbhmg
01-05-2002, 06:38 AM
I've been mowing for about six years now, with my current seven customers, and have only lost one customer to date(it was a gas station, who said the other guy is cheaper...). I have yet to do this job full time for myself, but plan to in the near future, maybe in the future I can justify a larger machine, but for now the ferris is more than enough. And it wasn't that cheap to begin with!

geogunn
01-05-2002, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by dmbhmg
....My question is , when I do zero turns,...., am I putting too much stress on my machine(transmission)?

This is my first walk-behind, not to mention my first hydrostatic, so this question may be an easy one.



I can't imagine why you would think turning the mower would "stress it". it is designed with turns in mind!

any way, belt or hydro. it's the one point turn that's important because if you are mowing and you do a zero turn-180 then you are going back where you done been!

GEO

dmbhmg
01-05-2002, 07:53 AM
One point turn makes more sense to say than zero turn, your right and thanks for the correction. As I said, it was probably an easy question, but I just wanted to ask. By the way, If doing a one point turn with the single drive isn't stressful on the trans, why then do they make a dual-drive.........Just a thought.......

Thanks to everyone that has replied.............!:)

LAWNGODFATHER
01-05-2002, 06:45 PM
Ferris does it like that for 3 levels of mower types, in stead of 2.

Belt drive

Single drive hydro

Dual drive hydro, most other brands of hydro mowers are all dual pump and motor set up, but Ferris are all in one as a hydraulic tranny.

ANd of course the price goes up as you go up in levels. Also the performance is increased as you do.

Hydro's do much better in wet conditions, and the have a true infinate variable speed, plus reverse.

Richard Martin
01-05-2002, 08:20 PM
dmbhmg wrote:
.......................
If doing a one point turn with the single drive isn't stressful on the trans, why then do they make a dual-drive.
.......................

Most likely it is because it is easier to make the turn at the end of a row of grass and go back in the other direction. The dual hydro does take a little bit of time to get used to. That is about the only advantage the dual has over the single though.

geogunn
01-05-2002, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by dmbhmg
By the way, If doing a one point turn with the single drive isn't stressful on the trans, why then do they make a dual-drive.........Just a thought.......

another thought could be...if it were stressful, then why would they even make the single drive at all?

I can see stressing a mower in grass too tall, I can see stress as running the pumps wide open all the time...and I can understand your question about mower stress, but not about turning the lawn mower as being stressful.

I'm sure this wont be a problem for you.

good luck.

GEO