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INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
06-13-2008, 08:32 AM
Has anyone else using UPB controls noticed that the UPB dimming switches used to control the primary side of the transformer tend to reduce transformer input voltage by several volts?

Yesterday while finishing up an installation I noticed I had secondary output voltage at the taps of 12.2V when in the transformers control over-ride mode, and then when I switched this off and used the UPB Switch to control the transformer I only had 11.5V out. I checked the line voltage into the UPB Switch and had 122Volts, I checked the line voltage out of the UPB Switch and had 115Volts. Clearly the UPB switch was 'eating' or choking 5 Volts internally.

Now that I know this I can work around it and compensate for it but yesterday it posed quite the issue. Anyone else found a similar situation?

Regards.

Pro-Scapes
06-13-2008, 08:45 AM
Which switch are you using ? I use the simply automated most the time and have only had this happen on 1 I think. Are you using Upstart ? If so ensure your at 100% but its not unrealistic to think a dimmer would be eating a couple of volts since there is no bypass inside.

This is why your systems need to be checked AFTER full load and the system is in operating mode.

JoeyD
06-13-2008, 09:45 AM
HAI does this from what I hear?

NightScenes
06-13-2008, 10:20 AM
Since dimmer switches actually cut the syne wave, you will usually run into this problem with dimmer type switches. You just have to compensate for it when designing the system.

Eden Lights
06-13-2008, 03:01 PM
All dimmers have a efficiency rating and I have never had one that was 100%, there is always some loss. That's one of the reasons we have the multi-tap transformer, due to need for proper voltage at the lamp on interior low-voltage cans. And you thought it was just for us landscape guys? To answer your question it's a dimmer thing (triac) and not a UPB thing.

Pro-Scapes
06-13-2008, 06:26 PM
I guess we dont notice it here as much since our line voltage is usually a bit higher than most but definatly need to adjust acordingly.I will check some other systems. I have some with HAI and some with simply automated but I am betting its the same.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
06-13-2008, 11:37 PM
I am using the Simply Automated line.

I am going to run a test on this: When setting up the US11-40 Switch that I use to control the NS Powercenter it asks if you want the unit to be dimmable. I have always set this to yes. Next time I will set it to NO, take measurements then set it to YES and take measurements. Perhaps if we bypass the dimming circuit in the switch the voltage will not drop so much across the switch.

Have a great day.

Eden Lights
06-14-2008, 01:15 AM
I happen to have a bunch of stuff in the office right now, so I just put a meter on them.

123.1V House Voltage

116.0V HAI 600W Dimmer
116.0V HAI 600W Non-Dimmer (Same device, it just has dimming not enabled by default)
116.0V HAI 1000W Dimmer (Made my PCS)
123.1V HAI 15A Relay Switch
114-116V SA 240&1140 (House Voltage could have dropped on the 114V Reading)
123V On HAI, PCS, SA, and Web Mountain Appliance Modules

When you do your design work with any dimming control system, if you plan on a solid 14-15V tap always spec a hotter trans: FX, Unique, or Vista. (Example the 14Volt Tap on a FX trans will have a higher output than a Kichler 15Volt tap based same House voltage and full load.)