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Ric
06-14-2008, 11:28 AM
If we want cheap gas we need to get off our azz. Read the link, watch the U tube and then SIGN THE PETITION.

http://www.americansolutions.com/actioncenter/petitions/?Guid=54ec6e43-75a8-445b-aa7b-346a1e096659


This is but one step to putting America back on track. If congress listens to the people and this Petition it will bring down gas prices and all related prices plus create JOBS here in America. This is but one step that is needed to turn our economy round and rebuild our country.

Ric
06-14-2008, 11:30 AM
Please leave this thread in Commercial Mowing Forum where it will be seen by the most people.

Thank You

dishboy
06-14-2008, 11:37 AM
Lowering the national speed limit to 60 M.P.H. with $1000 fines for 10 over with fines going to research would also bring down fuel prices fast.

kleankutslawn
06-14-2008, 11:39 AM
do you think this will help?

kleankutslawn
06-14-2008, 11:41 AM
how many signatures do you think you will need to be heard?

zemzabob
06-14-2008, 11:48 AM
Ok I'm in all they had to say was Chuck Norris.

Ric
06-14-2008, 11:49 AM
do you think this will help?

Many many Signatures and Yes It will help, But not right away. There is no quick fix for America. We need to realize our Country is no longer a first rate power.


KleanKut

You are in Tampa and just west of you in the Gulf of Mexico is a bigger oil reserve than Middle East. China has signed a 100 lease with Cuba to slant Drill into the Gulf of Mexico from Cuban waters.

AWR
06-14-2008, 12:09 PM
guys this needs to work Venezula pays 11 to 14 CENTS a gallon because they drill their own oil , but we can't this is getting out of hand

dougmartin2003
06-14-2008, 12:12 PM
i don't think it would make a difference where we drilled for oil, the corporations that have the money to drill for it is going to sell it for the going rate. weather it be $140 per barrel or $60 per barrel, its all about greed.

XterraJohn
06-14-2008, 02:26 PM
i don't think it would make a difference where we drilled for oil, the corporations that have the money to drill for it is going to sell it for the going rate. weather it be $140 per barrel or $60 per barrel, its all about greed.

So you don't think a new, huge supply of oil coming online would cause the "going rate" to go down? You know, that whole "supply and demand" thing?

dougmartin2003
06-14-2008, 02:52 PM
no i dont think it would go down, i would love to say it would go down, but with the greedy oil companys and stupid investors bidding outrageous prices on oil futures, i dont see it happening

Ric
06-14-2008, 03:05 PM
So you don't think a new, huge supply of oil coming online would cause the "going rate" to go down? You know, that whole "supply and demand" thing?

Price isn't the whole consideration. What about keeping our country solvent? Dependence on Foreign oil and resources is an other issue to consider. We may not be taken by war, But we sure are being taken over by Dollars.

Green Might be good, But Green People are getting in their own way to solve the problems. We need more Nuke power plants instead of Coal and Oil for Electric. We need to bring industry BACK to our soil. What do have we to offer the world Market?? China manufactures it and India offers the Technical support. Brazil and Argentine are feeding the world. What is left?? Lawn Mowing???

dougmartin2003
06-14-2008, 04:32 PM
[QUOTE=Ric;2373869]Price isn't the whole consideration. What about keeping our country solvent? Dependence on Foreign oil and resources is an other issue to consider. We may not be taken by war, But we sure are being taken over by Dollars.

Green Might be good, But Green People are getting in their own way to solve the problems. We need more Nuke power plants instead of Coal and Oil for Electric. We need to bring industry BACK to our soil. What do have we to offer the world Market?? China manufactures it and India offers the Technical support. Brazil and Argentine are feeding the world. What is left?? Lawn Mowing???[/QUOT


there are too many green groups that wants to save the forest, or save the beaver, or save this or that, what about saving ourselfs.

Mr. Vern
06-14-2008, 05:18 PM
Opening up offshore drilling absolutely would work to lower the price of crude. If you understand the free market system, you know that if competition is allowed to enter a market, the prices come down. It's all cyclical and we are on an upswing in price cycle. The system will eventually correct itself and prices will drop again - this assuming that the government ceases the insanity that is limiting competition.

The current players have no incentive to drill in the Gulf and to reduce the price of oil. However, if the government would get out of the way and allow folks to join the party, guys like us could form an investment group and hire some hotshot oil experts and become a competitor. I would be tickled pink to have the profit margins that the oil industry was making when oil was $40/barrell. If the goverment were to grant access to these reserves and allow new players to drill there, oil prices would drop like a rock.
As to the futures market driving up prices; it's absolutely the single greatest driver of prices. What causes the speculators to buy these futures is the sense that there is a shortage coming. If you opened up these wells, that confidence would erode quickly and oil futures would drop over night.

Ultimately, our entire government and economy are brilliantly designed to purge themselves of radicalism and to balance over time. Today, radical environmentalism is destroying this country. Oil prices are one of the major forces that will help to flush out the insanity of the current day environmentalists. The wildfires and droughts are some of the other forces that will push them out. Just watch as the system corrects itself. Once enough people lose everything they have due to economic woes, or wildfires caused by unmanaged forests, or droughts and floods due to no longer being able to build new damns and reservoirs, this nation will vomit these idiots out of control. It will be very painful, but it will ultimately bring the nation back to health.

XterraJohn
06-14-2008, 05:29 PM
Price isn't the whole consideration. What about keeping our country solvent? Dependence on Foreign oil and resources is an other issue to consider. We may not be taken by war, But we sure are being taken over by Dollars.

Green Might be good, But Green People are getting in their own way to solve the problems. We need more Nuke power plants instead of Coal and Oil for Electric. We need to bring industry BACK to our soil. What do have we to offer the world Market?? China manufactures it and India offers the Technical support. Brazil and Argentine are feeding the world. What is left?? Lawn Mowing???

I agree. I was addressing the poster who implied that even if we drilled here, because of "greed" oil companies would just sell our oil at today's high prices. :rolleyes:

dougmartin2003
06-14-2008, 06:14 PM
i just don't trust big oil companies,, too bad we couldn't starting drilling for oil in our own backyards:)

jsf343
06-14-2008, 06:33 PM
Many many Signatures and Yes It will help, But not right away. There is no quick fix for America. We need to realize our Country is no longer a first rate power.


KleanKut

You are in Tampa and just west of you in the Gulf of Mexico is a bigger oil reserve than Middle East. China has signed a 100 lease with Cuba to slant Drill into the Gulf of Mexico from Cuban waters.

Hey Ric, can you send me the link to the story about China drilling off our coastal waters? I heard the same but can't find the link.

Thanks

joshlawn
06-14-2008, 06:52 PM
Instead of signing petitions, passing crazy laws, or fighting over our dependence of oil products. Why not implement alternative fuels that are already available? Such as HHO, which is hydrogen on demand fuel systems. i.e. Cars that run off of water. There's plenty of water available right? 2/3 of the planet is covered with it. The hydrogen is produced on demand as it is needed, rather than being stored in some tank (which is very dangerous). It's very safe, much cleaner burning, produces more power, etc... Pound for pound, hydrogen has 3 times more energy than gasoline. Go to youtube and research it for yourself.
Just my 2 cents.

SNAPPER MAN
06-14-2008, 07:01 PM
I dont know if yall heard but just recently in North Dakota a oil reserve was discovered and it is believed to be at least twice as big as the middle east oil reserve. If our big oil companies would start drilling there then we could almost be selfsufficient.

Ric
06-14-2008, 08:29 PM
jsf343

China-Cuba Slant Drilling

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/china_starts_oil_drilling.html


joshlawn

What do you think Hybrid and Electric cars are?? Calf is working on Hydro Filling station up and down the coast but these things take time. If the Tree Huggers would have used common sense maybe we would be a lot closer to a real solution. But when the Scrub Jay habitat takes presidencies over a Nuke power plant that saves tons of sulfur Dioxide pollution, we are not using common sense.


SNAPPER MAN

Not only North Dakota, There are many Oil finds not being pumped. Gull Island is also Bigger than the Middle East and a purer oil that costs less to pump and refine. Do a search on the North Slop, Purdome Bay and Gull Island. The Tuscaloosa Trend is a sore point for me because I had 100 acres of oil rights at one time.

vbmike
06-14-2008, 08:50 PM
So you don't think a new, huge supply of oil coming online would cause the "going rate" to go down? You know, that whole "supply and demand" thing?

Real quick and dirty: anyone would be foolish to think that supply and demand has any bearing on this market. Supply is artificially low; peak oil is very dishonest. Unfortunately, this situation is not as easy as supply and demand, or even corporate greed; it is about redistributing the middle and lower class wealth of the US.

Gasoline is a utility here at home and abroad. It is very much so the new currency. It also reflects upon the value of our currency. Don't blame the president, either. Look at all of your--and your neighbors'--imported goods and vehicles. Then, ask your congressperson about the state spending habits. Newsflash: wars in the middle east don't drive up the prices of gasoline of a nation who imports less than a quarter of its oil from said locale.

:usflag:

tb8100
06-14-2008, 09:48 PM
Lowering the national speed limit to 60 M.P.H. with $1000 fines for 10 over with fines going to research would also bring down fuel prices fast.

Yes!! Bring on the government regulation!!!! :hammerhead:

DavidR
06-14-2008, 10:09 PM
I'm sorry to all of you that actually believe this is a viable possibility. We don't have that much oil on our soil and it will take at least a decade to get to it.

doubleedge
06-14-2008, 10:48 PM
i don't think it would make a difference where we drilled for oil, the corporations that have the money to drill for it is going to sell it for the going rate. weather it be $140 per barrel or $60 per barrel, its all about greed.

What info do you have to back this up? The oil companies get a whopping 7% profit. How can they lower prices?

XterraJohn
06-14-2008, 11:02 PM
Instead of signing petitions, passing crazy laws, or fighting over our dependence of oil products. Why not implement alternative fuels that are already available? Such as HHO, which is hydrogen on demand fuel systems. i.e. Cars that run off of water. There's plenty of water available right? 2/3 of the planet is covered with it. The hydrogen is produced on demand as it is needed, rather than being stored in some tank (which is very dangerous). It's very safe, much cleaner burning, produces more power, etc... Pound for pound, hydrogen has 3 times more energy than gasoline. Go to youtube and research it for yourself.
Just my 2 cents.

Find out how much energy input is needed to separate Hydrogen from Oxygen, then compare this to the energy output that you get when you burn the HHO. Please report back to us with your findings.

topsites
06-14-2008, 11:05 PM
So you don't think a new, huge supply of oil coming online would cause the "going rate" to go down? You know, that whole "supply and demand" thing?

To stifle the demand we need to pump in excess of 550,000,000 gallons of petrol a day, and that might bring prices down by about 10% BUT once the prices start to drop drivers will hit the road! So that in turn drives the prices right back up, then what we got is more and more petrol flowing and being burnt here every day, do you have any idea what the HEAT created from burning 5.5 BILLION gallons of petrol in one day is doing to our temperatures?

Each car idling produces something like 80,000 Btu's / hour, that's enough to heat a whole house in the nastiest winter. And there's what, 10 billion engines per day that run for at least an hour, what's that, 10 bn x 80k = omg we're into like trillions or quadrillions of BTU's / hour being released into the atmosphere, never mind the Co2 just the heat figures are astounding... I'd bet with a few more billion engines we could shut the sun down, maybe not quite but we're certainly producing enough heat already.

Does anyone still think 100+ degrees in June is an accident of nature?

See that's the whole problem here is greed on one end yes, but consumption and this feeling entitled to it, as if we DESERVE to have it, as if it was our birth right to burn petrol any time we want.

Lowering the national speed limit to 60 M.P.H. with $1000 fines for 10 over with fines going to research would also bring down fuel prices fast.

Not entirely disagreeing but just enforcing our current ones with stiff fines would be a grand step already... I see this crap folks doing 70+ mph in a 65 is down right ridiculous too... See if we think about it, the Speed LIMIT is actually the Maximum speed we should be allowed to touch on that speedo, so if the limit is 65 we really should be doing 60-64 and I really hope that makes some kind of sense...

The Speed Limit isn't a 'recommended' speed, it is the FASTEST we're allowed to go, getting down right technical we shouldn't even exceed it at all.

That right there would save us from having to replace all of the signs, because that's just more raw materials going to waste, so to speak. So to back up your point, slow it down.

dougmartin2003
06-14-2008, 11:07 PM
What info do you have to back this up? The oil companies get a whopping 7% profit. How can they lower prices?

all I'm saying is if we drill in our own country, doesn't mean the price of oil is going to go down, if the market is going for a $130 per barrel then the oil company are going to sell it for $130 per barrel, why would they sell it for less,

XterraJohn
06-14-2008, 11:09 PM
all I'm saying is if we drill in our own country, doesn't mean the price of oil is going to go down, if the market is going for a $130 per barrel then the oil company are going to sell it for $130 per barrel, why would they sell it for less,

The question is why would the market price not change AT ALL if all of a sudden there was more supply.

dougmartin2003
06-14-2008, 11:15 PM
i don't know, you tell me why stupid people are putting all there money on oil futures and raising the price up

XterraJohn
06-14-2008, 11:18 PM
i don't know, you tell me why stupid people are putting all there money on oil futures and raising the price up

So far it seems to be working for them. The higher the price goes, the more they make. It seems like it would be AGAINST these people's interest to increase supply. That raises the question, why are YOU against it?

dougmartin2003
06-14-2008, 11:20 PM
im not against it, i just dont believe it would bring done the price any

dougmartin2003
06-14-2008, 11:23 PM
they have already got the people used to $4 a gallon gas, so give it time and they will drop it to about $2.50 a gallon , and then everyone will say thank god they droped they price of gas, but the funny thing is there will be no new drilling operations going on

dougmartin2003
06-14-2008, 11:26 PM
high-flying tech stocks crashed. The roaring housing market crumbled. And oil, rest assured, will follow the same path down.

Not everyone agrees. In an echo of our most recent market frenzies, some experts pronounce that the "world has changed," and that the demand spikes, supply disruptions, and government bungling we face now will saddle us with a future of $4, $5 or even $10 a gallon gasoline.

But if you stick to basic economics, it's clear that the only question is when - not if - prices will succumb.

The oil bulls are correct in their explanations of why prices have jumped, to a record $138.54 a barrel on Friday. It's indisputable that worldwide demand has surged, chiefly driven by strong growth in China, India and the Middle East. It's also true that most of the world's reserves are controlled by governments in places like Russia and Venezuela that mismanage production, thus curtailing supply growth.

But rather than forming a permanent new plateau for prices - as the bulls contend - those forces are causing a classically unstable market that's destined for a steep fall.
What do you think: Is $4-a-gallon case here to stay?

In a normal oil market, the cost of producing the last, most expensive barrel of oil needed to satisfy worldwide demand sets the price for every barrel the world over. Other auction commodity markets work much the same way.

So even if Saudi Arabia produces at $4 a barrel, if the final, multi-millionth barrel required to heat houses and run cars costs $50, and is produced, for argument's sake, at a flagging field in West Texas, the world price is $50. That's what economists call the equilibrium price: It's where the price that customers are willing to pay meets the production cost, including a cushion, naturally, for profit or "the cost of capital."

But today, the sudden surge in demand and the production bottlenecks have thrown the market radically out of balance.

Almost exactly the same thing happened in the housing market. And both housing and oil supply react to a surge in demand with a long lag. In housing, the lag is caused by restrictive zoning and development laws, especially in coastal markets like California and Florida.

So when the economy roared back in 2002 and 2003, builders couldn't turn out homes fast enough for buyers armed with those cheap mortgages. As a result, prices spiked. They no longer bore any relation to the actual cost of buying and improving land, or constructing and marketing a new house (at some reasonable profit margin). Instead, frenzied buyers were setting the price.

Because builders were reaping huge windfall profits, they rushed to buy and develop land. And sure enough, those new houses were ready just as buyers were retreating to the sidelines because they could no longer afford to buy a home. That vast overhang of unsold homes is what's driving down prices today.

The story is much the same with oil, with a twist. A big swath of the market isn't really paying that $125 a barrel number you hear about seemingly every hour. In China, India and the Middle East, governments are heavily subsidizing oil for their consumers and corporations, leading to rampant over-consumption - and driving up prices even more.

But sooner or later the world won't keep paying those prices: Eventually, the price must fall back to the cost of that last barrel to clear the market.

So what does that barrel cost today? According to Stephen Brown, an economist at the Dallas Federal Reserve, that final barrel costs just $50 to produce. And when the price is $125, the incentive to pour out more oil, like homebuilders' incentive to build more two years ago, is irresistible.

It takes a while to develop new supplies of oil, but the signs of a surge are already in place. Shale oil costing around $70 a barrel is now being produced in the Dakotas. Tar sands are attracting investment in Canada, also at around $70. New technology could soon minimize the pollution caused by producing oil from our super-plentiful supplies of coal.

"History suggests that when there's this much money to be made, new supplies do get developed," says Brown.

That's just the supply side of the equation. Demand should start to decline as well, albeit gradually.

"Historically, the oil market has under-anticipated the amount of conservation brought on by high prices," says Brown. Sales of big cars are collapsing; Americans are cutting down on driving. The airlines are scaling back flights.

We've learned another important lesson from the housing market: The longer prices stay stratospheric, the worse the eventual crash - simply because the higher the prices and bigger the profit margins, the bigger the incentive to over-produce.

It's even possible that, a few years hence, we could see a sustained period of plentiful oil supplies and low prices, meaning $50 or below.

A similar scenario occurred following the price explosion in the 1970s and early 1980s. The price spike caused the world to cut back sharply on oil consumption. By the mid-80s, oil prices had fallen from almost $40 to around $15. They remained extremely low for two decades.

It's impossible to predict how the adjustment this time will take shape, just as it was in housing. There the surge in supply came in places the experts swore there was "no supply," and wouldn't be any. Builders found a way to extend vast tracts of homes into California's Inland Empire and Central Valley, and even build "in-fill" projects near the densely-populated coasts.

An earlier bubble is also instructive. In the early 1980s silver prices jumped from $10 to $50 on the theory that the world was facing a permanent shortage of silver. Suddenly ads appeared asking homeowners to bring their tea sets and jewelry to Holiday Inns for a big price. Silver supplies poured from seemingly nowhere, out of America's cupboards, of all places.

And so it will be with oil. We don't know where the new abundance will come from, from shale, or tar sands or coal or an OPEC desperate to regain market share. We just know that it will appear. With prices like these, it always does.

Ric
06-16-2008, 04:14 PM
dougmartin

While your lecture on Economics 101 is well founded I will not agree with your prediction of falling Gas Prices with out many changes in the system. Drilling our own Oil is not the total solution as you have pointed out. But just the message to congress might make points for the Working class and negate the Green Movements power of standing in their own way. Hedge Fund investors do control final Gas spot market pricing, But supply and demand controls the price of oil per Barrel. As nations like China and India emerge, More fuel is consumed by them. Not just in the form of gasoline but also their diet becomes more meat instead of grain. It takes more grain to produce the meat and more grain requires more fertilizer and fuel to irrigate and grow and transport it. These same emerging Nations will want new housing with air conditioning and clothing etc which all call for modern technology which Uses Fuel.

There must be a Short and Long term solution to this problem. Drilling will take 10 years to show any real effect. Hybrid cars might be a more immediate solution. Nuke Power and Wind Generators are also years away, But if the Tree Hugger stop using the Scrub Blue jay Habitat to stop the solving the problem we might get there. At my age I have about 7.5 years left statistically, I don't believe problems started in WW II will be resolved in my life time. I do believe America could go into a deep depression and be taken from within in that time frame.

hockeypro1411
06-16-2008, 04:50 PM
wow dougmartin... if you wrote that (read the entire thing. understood about half), then i have to ask... are you like a professor or something?

tb8100
06-16-2008, 05:58 PM
See that's the whole problem here is greed on one end yes, but consumption and this feeling entitled to it, as if we DESERVE to have it, as if it was our birth right to burn petrol any time we want.

Why wouldn't we deserve to burn petrol? Who does it belong to? Are you personifying the earth? :dizzy:

Not entirely disagreeing but just enforcing our current ones with stiff fines would be a grand step already... I see this crap folks doing 70+ mph in a 65 is down right ridiculous too... See if we think about it, the Speed LIMIT is actually the Maximum speed we should be allowed to touch on that speedo, so if the limit is 65 we really should be doing 60-64 and I really hope that makes some kind of sense...

I agree, there are alot of crazy drivers out there, but I'm sorry, I'm not for increased regulation, and neither should you be. There are times when we are accidentally exceeding the speed limit, and while that is not right, there is no reason we should have to go bankrupt for such a nominal mistake. So no, that really doesn't make sense at all.

The Speed Limit isn't a 'recommended' speed, it is the FASTEST we're allowed to go, getting down right technical we shouldn't even exceed it at all.

I totally agree here.

That right there would save us from having to replace all of the signs, because that's just more raw materials going to waste, so to speak. So to back up your point, slow it down.

Like I said, I agree we should slow down and quit speeding, but the reason should be to preserve the safety of the American people, NOT to appease the misguided consciences of an elite group of individuals.

tb8100
06-16-2008, 06:04 PM
The question is why would the market price not change AT ALL if all of a sudden there was more supply.

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but there's no question, when the supply increases, and competition increases (namely, the US emerging as a competitor against OPEC), prices come down. They always have and always will. Especially since the US wouldn't have near the importation costs that OPEC would have.

tb8100
06-16-2008, 06:07 PM
do you have any idea what the HEAT created from burning 5.5 BILLION gallons of petrol in one day is doing to our temperatures?

Nothing. It's doing nothing to our temperatures. In the city, temperatures are a bit higher due to all the concrete. However, let's all remember what really is responsible for global cooling and warming- the sun. Did that even have to be said ? :hammerhead:

Richard Martin
06-16-2008, 07:57 PM
The Speed Limit isn't a 'recommended' speed, it is the FASTEST we're allowed to go, getting down right technical we shouldn't even exceed it at all.

That right there would save us from having to replace all of the signs, because that's just more raw materials going to waste, so to speak. So to back up your point, slow it down.

As a little experiment my wife and I drove the 325 miles from NC to MD a couple of weeks ago at the speed limit all the way up I-95. We wanted to get as good a mileage as we could as well as see how fast people are still driving. If the speeds they're doing on 95 is any gauge then the price of gas isn't too high yet.

We were on 95 for about 4 hours at the posted speed limit. We passed a total of about 12 cars. We were passed by thousands. On the return trip we did the same thing (on a Sunday morning) and we had the same experience. In addition to that the VSP and local cops were out writing tickets like crazy. We saw no less than 10 cars pulled over going through VA.

I read a story once and a gas company executive said they'll be able to tell when the price is too high by the way people drive. From what I'm seeing, the price isn't too high yet.



BTW, I signed the petition.

lawnworker
06-16-2008, 09:47 PM
The price of oil will drop when China, Japan, and America and Europe's people can no longer pay these prices. This is coming soon, so look for a price drop in a month or two.

huntw11871
06-16-2008, 11:03 PM
Look at what is going on in Spain... We might get there soon.

dougmartin2003
06-16-2008, 11:27 PM
i just going to start making my on alcohol, to use in my cars:drinkup:

topsites
06-16-2008, 11:36 PM
One thing that needs to be understood as well is there exist more than a few countries currently subsidizing petroleum... You know what that means...

The sick of it is, there is no shortage.
There might be, but not if everyone charged what it should cost.

Between speculation and subsidies and politicians I would bet money the price of gas ain't right too!

they have already got the people used to $4 a gallon gas, so give it time and they will drop it to about $2.50 a gallon , and then everyone will say thank god they droped they price of gas, but the funny thing is there will be no new drilling operations going on

Yeah I see that sick garbage also...
Except I see more like 2.99-3.25 fuel or thereabouts, whatever, same thing.

And it will be some kind of person or company 'came up with the solution' and then everyone will love that person or company... And such is life, but the garbage sure looks semi-planned out, influenced to the hilt lol

high-flying tech stocks crashed. The roaring housing market crumbled. And oil, rest assured, will follow the same path down.

And I hate to say it, but if that happens I will REJOICE!
I think you're right thou, only a matter of time.

Skindog
06-16-2008, 11:40 PM
He plagurized it off the web. Ive seen it beforewow dougmartin... if you wrote that (read the entire thing. understood about half), then i have to ask... are you like a professor or something?

Skindog
06-16-2008, 11:43 PM
I was there in April this year, the $9/gal gas didnt seem to be keeping anyone off the roadsLook at what is going on in Spain... We might get there soon.

topsites
06-16-2008, 11:51 PM
Why wouldn't we deserve to burn petrol? Who does it belong to? Are you personifying the earth? :dizzy:

No but it's also not our 'constitutional' right to burn it, nor is it our right to have it for free, and what I mean by free is the same dang thing when a customer wants it cheap, cheaper, and cheapest... Sure it isn't really free, but once someone's cheapness cuts into my profit and then they want the entire profit too and still it's not cheap enough until it looks like I'm going to supply a part of the cost myself?

It's the same thing, to a point, with petrol.
They demand we pay a price, what choice do we have?
Because driving is a privilege, we choose to do it.

But as for my self-righteousness, petrol is a limited resource.
And maybe peak oil is a scam, it could be, I'm not arguing.
But what if it's true, what if the earth really is running out of petrol?
Because one day it will run out.

It will not be around forever, it might be around another 50 or 100 or maybe even 500 or 1,000 years.
But we don't know for sure, and we're consuming the equivalent of a great lake, every day.
It could run out any day now, too...

Like I said, I agree we should slow down and quit speeding, but the reason should be to preserve the safety of the American people, NOT to appease the misguided consciences of an elite group of individuals.

Ah I like that, well said.

AdamChrap
06-17-2008, 12:30 AM
Bottom line if our country practiced capitalism (like it is supposed to) we would not have these problems, In stead we are much closer to socialism

bahamamills
06-17-2008, 05:12 PM
dougmartin
There must be a Short and Long term solution to this problem. Drilling will take 10 years to show any real effect. Hybrid cars might be a more immediate solution. Nuke Power and Wind Generators are also years away, But if the Tree Hugger stop using the Scrub Blue jay Habitat to stop the solving the problem we might get there. At my age I have about 7.5 years left statistically, I don't believe problems started in WW II will be resolved in my life time. I do believe America could go into a deep depression and be taken from within in that time frame.

No offense but when one oil company reports 40Billion + profits where does that 7% come from(earlier post)

Think back in times 20-40 years ago, we have many intelligent people in this country that have been working towards alternative fuels and transportation. Many of those companies that make that 7% 40Billion in profits some how make them disappear. I would love to see a few states in the US to take it upong themselves to make their state RICH just as the nutjob in venezula and now Brazil will do the same. I assure you if a company private/public see the profits being made that could accomplish this very quickly.

Simple fact is there is nowhere near a shortage and this is simple market manipulation that is not just hurting us SUV/Truck owners but everyone. Until the government steps in unfortunately nothing will happen because they not the oil companies have cut private/public from accessing the existing oil.

As many have pointed out the foreigners have access just off the US borders offshore and they are living large. So cry environment, global warming or blame us truck/SUV drivers but the a gallon of gas has caught up to a gallon of milk $4 and its going to get far worse for a large population.

Ric
06-17-2008, 07:58 PM
No offense but when one oil company reports 40Billion + profits where does that 7% come from(earlier post)



bahamamills

7% is the ROI.

ROI- Return On Investment. If 40 billion is 7% of total investment, then the total investment is 571 billion. I am sure you want more than 7% profit.

Charles
06-17-2008, 08:35 PM
bahamamills

7% is the ROI.

ROI- Return On Investment. If 40 billion is 7% of total investment, then the total investment is 571 billion. I am sure you want more than 7% profit.

So, what was the ROI when it was $1.25 per gallon 6 years ago?

bahamamills
06-17-2008, 11:30 PM
bahamamills

7% is the ROI.

ROI- Return On Investment. If 40 billion is 7% of total investment, then the total investment is 571 billion. I am sure you want more than 7% profit.

Ric,

Not doubting you but yes I am skeptical.... one company invested 571,000,000,000.00 (how long ago) and only made a 7% profit. Keeping in mind no new refineries have been built in over 20years I would love to see that report.