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View Full Version : Need Help On Estimate!! Quick!! Thanks


DillonsLawnCare
06-16-2008, 08:12 PM
hey guys this is one of the lawns i mow and the guy wanted me to do some landscape work for him. Pic are below.

he wants:

Weeds pulled:dizzy:
Hedges Trimmed
Mulch Installation

I was going to spray weed killer down to help out with all that bermuda growing should i spray the killer down before i pull the weeds or after?? or both? i was thinking it would make it a little easier to pull dead weeds up rather than alive. idk.

How should i go about chraging this job? This is my first job like this.

ALSO, the big tree right in the middle, what in the hell am i supposed to do with that??????

any input is greatly appreciated, as i told him that i would give him a quote Tuesday Afternoon.

Thanks!!

agm
06-16-2008, 08:14 PM
wheres the pic?

DillonsLawnCare
06-16-2008, 08:14 PM
heres some pics!

DillonsLawnCare
06-16-2008, 08:16 PM
Sorry The First Picture Was Mistakenly Put In There!! My Bad!! Thats Not The House! The Rest Of The Pics Are!!

Thanks

DillonsLawnCare
06-16-2008, 08:17 PM
MOREpics..............

DillonsLawnCare
06-16-2008, 08:18 PM
More Pics...........

k911lowe
06-16-2008, 08:24 PM
hey guys this is one of the lawns i mow and the guy wanted me to do some landscape work for him. Pic are below.

he wants:

Weeds pulled:dizzy:
Hedges Trimmed
Mulch Installation

I was going to spray weed killer down to help out with all that bermuda growing should i spray the killer down before i pull the weeds or after?? or both? i was thinking it would make it a little easier to pull dead weeds up rather than alive. idk.

How should i go about chraging this job? This is my first job like this.

ALSO, the big tree right in the middle, what in the hell am i supposed to do with that??????

any input is greatly appreciated, as i told him that i would give him a quote Tuesday Afternoon.

Thanks!!

it is easier and more efficient to pull dead weeds instead of live.that way the don't multiply.pulling bermuda is a waste.its going to take at least 2 sprays about 2 weeks apart to kill it.then sprayed when noticed.always charge any job by man hours and product usage charge.

freshprince94
06-16-2008, 08:25 PM
For hedge trimming, my starting price is $25 and that is only if the bushes are not overgrown and there aren't that many of them. I would say you should charge at least $35-40 based on the amount of bushes and the growth.

For weed pulling, I pull than spray Bear weedkiller (available at Home Cheapo), it kills weeds but not trees and plants and you don't need a liscense for it. My starting price is $30 and that is only for light weeding. Based on the pics, I would charge maybe $50 or so. But that is the going rates in my area, and some LCOs are lower ($25 for mowing and edging, trim hedges, pull weeds). If the going rates are higher in your area, charge more.

As far as mulch goes, I haven't a clue as I don't do mulching. :cry:

derbydon
06-16-2008, 08:28 PM
Looks like bermuda grass in there, if so, better plan on removing 2-4" of dirt with that, putting down a barrier, and make sure the customer is aware bermuda always comes back. It's hard to advise how much to quote on a job like that without knowing your experience level (I've got a couple of guys I'd put on that and they'd be done in 4 hours, my other 2 guys would be 4 days and still not look right).

Safe bet to say 16 man hours, maybe 5 "scoops" of mulch bulk or 50 3 cu/ft bags, bag of treflan weedstop, couple rolls of barrier, fuel (depends on how far for mulch and disposal) and disposal fees, if any.

Varsity L&G
06-16-2008, 08:30 PM
Solo I charge $60 hour for clean-up. Looks like it might take you 2 hours of prep.

Then for that job $75 to $85 per yard of mulch used depending on type of mulch.

3 to 4 yards plus prep

$460? I don't know the measurements.

You mow that property and don't run the wacker in those beds?

DillonsLawnCare
06-16-2008, 08:37 PM
ok, thanks for all the replies. it goes about 6ft deep from the sidewalk, and the deepes is like 10-12 feet, but only in that one spot.

ive got a helper and i currently pay him $10 an hour, so im thinking i wont pay him by the hour. by the job.

any thought on what to pay him???

AND, what am i supposed to do with the big tree in the front??

so, how do i kill the bermuda and keep it gone??

mowerbrad
06-16-2008, 08:54 PM
If you would rather pull dead weeds I would spray the beds one week while your there mowing, then the next week come and pull them out and spray another round of weed killer or put a pre-emmergant down so more weeds don't come.

DillonsLawnCare
06-16-2008, 10:18 PM
ok. i need some more advice guys, come on! quotes for the whole job.


thanks for all replies so far!!!

billslawn89
06-16-2008, 10:42 PM
first i would take a string trimmer and knock down the weeds and bermuda grass. the grass will come back because it turned to seed. after string trimming, trim all the bushes and rake, then spray roundup on all weeds and grass. if possible, apply the mulch a few days later to let the roundup to work. i would charge per bush to trim, $ 4 to $ 6 each, plus mulch and materials and disposal.

billslawn89
06-16-2008, 10:50 PM
AND, what am i supposed to do with the big tree in the front??

i would either trim up the bottom to see the trunk and shape it round, or totally cut it down...don't look good, its too big for the area..by the way what is it?

KatKutter
06-16-2008, 11:42 PM
Tree would have to go If it was me. Also its allready been landscaped just not taken care of. I would spray and kill all the bermuda, and trim all the shrubs back as much as I could, without makeing them look bad. Then in a couple weeks spray again. This will be an on going thing, pull out all that dead junk an theres proly allready fabric down. If so mulch the heck out of it and keep it sprayed when you mow, maybe once a month. Alot of work there to make it look right, plus the mulch. I would proly charge between 4 and 5 hundred to get it back in shape. And the tree just is to much in front of the house, if it remains it will be a problem for the home owner in the near future. Its not so big yet that it would be hard to get out of there.

N.TX
06-17-2008, 12:08 AM
I would charge 135 just to trim the shrubs. I would charge a min of 50 to haul off the waste. I would spray it with R up if you can before. I would charge 35 bucks to weedeat the weeds after they are dead or 75 bucks to pull the weeds then 25 to spray it later when they come up again. I usually buy mulch at the local home depot or lowes. Around here nobody sells bulk for cheap. I will usually buy a bag and double the price and add a dollar and that will be my cost for material and labor. 27 cubic feet in a yard so 9 bags of 3 cubic feet equals a yard. I usually get a bag for like 3 bucks and charge 7 - 7.50 a bag. I cant tell you how much you need by looking at the picture but if say you needed a yard well thats 9 bags at $3 = 27bucks a yard cost 9 bags charge customer 7.50 a bag = 67.50 a yard installed. I like the bags because they are easier to handle then a wheelbarrow and shovel. Some guys can buy it bulk for like 10 or 15 a yard even then i like the bags better.

tomflan947
06-17-2008, 12:17 AM
How do u stay in bussines with prices that cheap.

N.TX
06-17-2008, 12:28 AM
I would be making around 100 per hr after labor and material expenses before overhead... which isnt much.

Lawn-Scapes
06-17-2008, 12:31 AM
i would either trim up the bottom to see the trunk and shape it round, or totally cut it down...don't look good, its too big for the area..by the way what is it?

He doesn't know how to do the job or what to charge.. you expect him to know what kind of tree it is?

SchultzLawnCare
06-17-2008, 12:33 AM
charge by the man hour (mines $55.00).
Then measure up the mulch beds go to landscapeyard. buy mulch and charge him for your time going to the landscpae yard and to the jobsite. (per man hour)

There ya go. Just estimate how much time itll take you and add a coupld more hours just to be safe.

MJS
06-17-2008, 01:27 AM
charge by the man hour (mines $55.00).
Then measure up the mulch beds go to landscapeyard. buy mulch and charge him for your time going to the landscpae yard and to the jobsite. (per man hour)

There ya go. Just estimate how much time itll take you and add a coupld more hours just to be safe.

That's pretty much it - my man/hour charge for a job like that is usually $75. . .but whatever your think is reasonable.

That "grace period" of extra hours can sometimes come in handy. If you've never done this kind of work before, chances are you're gonna underestimate the amount of time it's gonna take you.

KS_Grasscutter
06-17-2008, 01:32 AM
Kinda unrealted, but how is your toro working out now?

DillonsLawnCare
06-17-2008, 09:52 PM
i measured everything and it came out to be 515 sq. ft. or cubic or whatever....

$90 - Install Mulch
$55 - trim bushes
$65 - pull weeds
$15 - spray round up
$45 - Haul off waste

SO...... $270 for labor and then the rest for supplies.

Round up - $30
Landscape-weed-block- fabric - $60


$360 before mulch. is this too much?? if so, PLEASE tell me what i need to reduce.


thanks

DillonsLawnCare
06-17-2008, 10:01 PM
ok i googled stuff and figured out that a bobcat scoop covers about 50 to 60 sq. ft.

so 515/60 = 8.5. so 8.5 scoops of mulch needed. my local dealer who carries mulch quoted me $18 a scoop for brown mulch. this is what the guy wants.

so $152 for mulch. $350 for labor and supplies, so $500 for the whole job. is that too much??

thanks.

Albery's Lawn & Tractor
06-17-2008, 10:06 PM
Hell thats an easy job. Me and one helper start to finish would be less then 3 hours. Cut the weeds down, spray, trim shrubs, prune what looks to be maybe a crepe myrtle (can't tell for sure), edge the left bed, throw down the new mulch, then knock on the door to get paid.
My price: $240 for labor ($80 per hour), $120 for mulch (customer's cost), $40 for spraying, and $50 for bed edging. TOTAL:$450

KS_Grasscutter
06-17-2008, 10:08 PM
i measured everything and it came out to be 515 sq. ft. or cubic or whatever....


thanks


:laugh::laugh:

Our public schools at work!!!!!

Sorry, I just had to....

In all seriousness, a square unit is length times width, while a cubic unit is length times width times depth/height.

DillonsLawnCare
06-17-2008, 10:13 PM
:laugh::laugh:

Our public schools at work!!!!!

Sorry, I just had to....

In all seriousness, a square unit is length times width, while a cubic unit is length times width times depth/height.


yeah my bad, cubic is 3 dimensional, square is 2 dimensional.

i had a brain fart

Albery's Lawn & Tractor
06-17-2008, 10:14 PM
:laugh::laugh:

Our public schools at work!!!!!

Sorry, I just had to....

In all seriousness, a square unit is length times width, while a cubic unit is length times width times depth/height.

I was trying to be nice and let that slide. Good thing he knows now before he had to figure where he was going to put 2/3 of the mulch he over ordered.

DillonsLawnCare
06-17-2008, 10:24 PM
how do you prune a crepe murtle, or how is it supposed to look?

DillonsLawnCare
06-17-2008, 10:37 PM
$425 for the whole job without putting down landscape fabric.

$535 with the landscape fabric put down

$150 for mulch (worst case)

so $275 for labor and round up.

is that good??

ed2hess
06-17-2008, 10:44 PM
Don't put that landscape fabric down it basically seems good on paper but doesn't help at all. Then if you have to do weeding later you are screwed. And that myrtle should be down to the point where you can see both of those windows but that should have been done in the spring. It won't hurt it to cut it now but no blooms this year. The process is go in and weedeat all that grass down. Then do your bushes and mulch that up with mower and pick up the little bit that is left. Then you do the roundup thing,wait a week and weed eat again and roundup. Everything will be dead then just put the mulch on it. And if you areconcerned go to Home Depot and get some preem to spread around to prevent weeds from sprouting before putting down the mulch.

DillonsLawnCare
06-17-2008, 11:08 PM
ok, sounds good. what should i do about that shrub hanging over the walkway?? Trim it? i dont know what to do with that.

thanks so far!!

billslawn89
06-17-2008, 11:18 PM
the shrub growing into the sidewalk looks like a juniper. i would trim the edge of it to the form of the sidewalk..might like like crap at first, but once grown back in where you trimmed it, it will look nice. i agree with the others..skip the fabric..waist of time and money with mulch. only use fabric when putting down stone.:dancing:

Lawn-Scapes
06-17-2008, 11:22 PM
I don't think that's a Crepe Myrtle... I've never seen a Crepe with leaves that hang/point downward and there are no dead blooms from last year.

Looks like Juniper on the sidewalk. You can trim it back some.

Lawnut101
06-17-2008, 11:58 PM
I usually figure at least $10 to trim each bush (usually more than that, but that's like a minimum), a dump charge and $50/yard of mulch installed + cost of mulch. Weed pulling I charge by the hour, usually $30 or $40/hr, and to spray I'd charge about 3x whatever it costs me. I wouldn't put down a bed liner, because they don't do a lot. I'd be fairly close to Albery's bid. Good luck to you.

DillonsLawnCare
06-18-2008, 12:26 AM
so does $400 sound fairly good??

$150 mulch
$30 round up

$220 Labor??

Ive got a helper, what should i pay him if i end up with $220 or around $200?????


Thanks

Grits
06-18-2008, 12:44 AM
so does $400 sound fairly good??

$150 mulch
$30 round up

$220 Labor??

Ive got a helper, what should i pay him if i end up with $220 or around $200?????


Thanks

...by the hour.

DillonsLawnCare
06-18-2008, 12:51 AM
ok. will do. i pay him $10 an hour right now. more or less.???

thanks

Lawnut101
06-18-2008, 01:01 AM
ok. will do. i pay him $10 an hour right now. more or less.???

thanks

I'd say $10/hr should be fine for him. At least, that's the going rate around here.

Lawnut101
06-18-2008, 01:03 AM
so does $400 sound fairly good??

$150 mulch
$30 round up

$220 Labor??

Ive got a helper, what should i pay him if i end up with $220 or around $200?????


Thanks

Yeah, that sounds like a good price to me. Wish I could get called for a job like that again. It's starting to get slow around here. Good luck with that job.

DillonsLawnCare
06-18-2008, 11:52 AM
Ok ,I got some new quotes on the job. tell me if these are too low.

$345

Mulch - $105 w/ delivery
Round up - $30

$210 For Labor.

Albery's Lawn & Tractor
06-18-2008, 12:22 PM
Why do you keep lowering your price? Your suppose to make money.

DillonsLawnCare
06-18-2008, 04:12 PM
i got the job for $345. i lowered the price cause the mulch ended up being less than i had estimated.

ill take before and after pics when i get to it on friday.

KatKutter
06-18-2008, 11:43 PM
Like I said $400.00 - $500.00. Thats your call, your the one doing the work. And dont even sweat the fabric, cause if your gonna be mowing this place. Its gonna be real easy to keep it looking fresh. Ed2hess is right about trimming all that first. Just cut the heck out of the weeds then spray,, wait a week and do it again. Trim all the evergreens and mulch then get paid. (lol )simple hu???

l3en007
06-18-2008, 11:49 PM
are a waste of money and time. you ever try to pull a weed that comes through the barrier? it sucks. weed barriers are a horrible invention. i would recommend just spraying ..mulching..then coming back and spraying a second time. Also, before you mulch put down your snap shot(a weed preemergent) and ornamental fertilizer. Lets not forget these applications are money makers!

CGlisson
06-19-2008, 01:42 AM
Please post a reply with how this job goes. I just finished one about the same size. The weeds were more overgrown, but it took me almost 2 days to do it solo. I was kicking myself for only charging them $450. I hope you have better luck than I did, and are able to make money with your price. I ended up making 3 trips to dump the weeds I took out. Good luck!

DillonsLawnCare
06-19-2008, 01:58 AM
Please post a reply with how this job goes. I just finished one about the same size. The weeds were more overgrown, but it took me almost 2 days to do it solo. I was kicking myself for only charging them $450. I hope you have better luck than I did, and are able to make money with your price. I ended up making 3 trips to dump the weeds I took out. Good luck!

ill do some before and after pics and some pics on the job. ill let you guys know everything!

thanks:weightlifter::cool2:

DillonsLawnCare
06-20-2008, 08:54 PM
ok, i got the job done and here are some pics of the after. i didnt get any pics on the job, cause i forgot my camera.

quoted $335.

$75 Mulch
$12 Preen
$17 Tarp, bungees
$15 Lunch
$20 other BS
------
Total Labor = $209

I, Myself, made $100 on the job which is bullshit.:cry:
My helper made about $80.

Pulled weeds, trimmed hedges. = 3 1/2 hours
Put Down Preen, weed preventer = 5 Minutes
Went to get the mulch = 1 hour
Got mulch off trailer = 1/2 hour
Mulch application = 2 Hours
Clean-up/ disposal = 1/2 hour
Total time = 7 1/2 HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!:cry::dizzy:

I have not done a job like this before, so it was my first.

i think i did an ok.. job.

That bermuda will probably come back so......idk.:drinkup:

Thanks

DillonsLawnCare
06-20-2008, 08:56 PM
more.................................................

DillonsLawnCare
06-20-2008, 08:57 PM
more...........................

Albery's Lawn & Tractor
06-20-2008, 09:00 PM
Dillion I have to admit I think you did a pretty good job. You didn't charrge enoug but that will come in time.

DillonsLawnCare
06-20-2008, 09:04 PM
yeah that job was definately underquoted. i had the same problem with lawns. i got over it. people around are just so damn cheap. its hard to do anything.

but, thanks Albery's Lawn.

It makes me feel good i did a good job and a prof. says so.

Thanks!!

customcurbdesigns
06-20-2008, 09:27 PM
WTF....

I would cry if I did 7.5 hrs of work for 100.00

DillonsLawnCare
06-20-2008, 09:36 PM
WTF....

I would cry if I did 7.5 hrs of work for 100.00

i beat you to it.

customcurbdesigns
06-20-2008, 09:54 PM
How many yards of mulch did you need or use?

Why did you make the quote all complicated.

I would have done the estimate in my head at lets say for example, 6 yards of mulch, 60.00 per yard installed...thats 360.00 + prolly another 125.00 for the weeds and about another 50.00-100 so a total of 575-600.00

Thats what I would have done. And why the hell did it take 3.5 hrs to pull weeds?

customcurbdesigns
06-20-2008, 09:56 PM
By the way, looks great. Now you just need to hope that you get more neighbors and charge them accordingly.

I did a house here recently, 3 yards of mulch, pulled some weeds, fixed 1 sprinkler head and planted 7 plants and got 360.00 and was done in 2hrs....

So you wayyyyy undercharged...oh well, live and learn.

DillonsLawnCare
06-20-2008, 10:11 PM
i ordered 3 yards of mulch. ended up using about 2 1/2.

The weeds were thick as ****. I was pulling bermuda that has been there for years. i seriously didnt think it would take that long, but it did.

yeah, owell.

JNyz
06-20-2008, 10:45 PM
Hi Dillon,

This might seem harsh but I think you need to do it. It will save you time and money in the long run. Get a job with the biggest LCO in your area and work there for 6-12 months. Ask lots of questions and try to go out on different crews. It will help. Get rid of your worst clients and just work for your best ones after work and on weekends. I am sure you will make the same money at the end of the week. Good Luck.

topsites
06-20-2008, 11:07 PM
The big tree appears to be a memosa (sp?), the dark bushes some type of boxwoods, the light colored ones nandinas, the shiny dark leaf one(s) are likely hollies (if the leaves are dark and shiny and prickly it is usually a type of holly) and there appears to be a juniper shrub in there as well, and monkey grass... Oh yeah, and those pine looking things, some type of fir tree...

The weeds, yeah that's bermuda grass and there's some thistle looking things there as well, probably some other things but the weed kingdom is as wide and big as the one I like trying to remember, so I'm not sure.

175 if there's a place to dispose shrubbery waste on the property, mulch and all, done deal.

...........
And after I walk around with the customer pointing at these various little things as I say that,
nobody ever asks me to pull weeds by hand.

But I didn't know all of this when I started.
I did what I had to do, and it sucked and blew, but hands on is how I learned.

So, it gets better with time.

bajabodin
06-20-2008, 11:34 PM
I too charge about 35-45/hour; you just have to give yourself an idea of how much time it will take to do the job. Be careful with weed killers; you don't want to kill any of those nice bushes. A good weed barrier is newspaper; it's cheap and good for the environment, lay it on about two to three pages thick and then cover with mulch. You may want to tell your customer about that, because if they see it you want them to know it is not trash in their garden, but they may like the environment thing. Don't forget when adding your time to remember clean up and haul away, it may take you more than one trip to the dump or where ever you bring your stuff.

topsites
06-20-2008, 11:39 PM
Hey well I posted before I realized it was already done.
And that looks nice.

With my quote it likely would've took me 2-3 maybe 4 hours, minus the cost of mulch I'd also say about 100 left...
I did a job just like that not long ago, I didn't get there until 4pm...
I was finished shortly before dark, customer paid me 180.
Win some, lose some.

Also a correction, that tree is a crepe myrtle.

Grits
06-20-2008, 11:46 PM
The big tree appears to be a memosa (sp?), the dark bushes some type of boxwoods, the light colored ones nandinas, the shiny dark leaf one(s) are likely hollies (if the leaves are dark and shiny and prickly it is usually a type of holly) and there appears to be a juniper shrub in there as well, and monkey grass... Oh yeah, and those pine looking things, some type of fir tree...

The weeds, yeah that's bermuda grass and there's some thistle looking things there as well, probably some other things but the weed kingdom is as wide and big as the one I like trying to remember, so I'm not sure.

175 if there's a place to dispose shrubbery waste on the property, mulch and all, done deal.
...........
And after I walk around with the customer pointing at these various little things as I say that,
nobody ever asks me to pull weeds by hand.

But I didn't know all of this when I started.
I did what I had to do, and it sucked and blew, but hands on is how I learned.

So, it gets better with time.

Mimosa? 175? I swear the hotter it gets, the more insane Topsites gets.

topsites
06-21-2008, 07:07 AM
Mimosa? 175? I swear the hotter it gets, the more insane Topsites gets.

No, I would've done it for that by myself, been done within 2-4 hours and made the same money, showed up like yeah whatever because this isn't that big of a job. Insignificant it isn't, but this whole thing, it takes Time.
Not one or two dozen jobs, not a few months, but years...
Years in this business makes a big difference.

What does surprise me is how you guys get away with bids twice mine.

JNyz
06-21-2008, 07:14 AM
No, I would've done it for that by myself, been done within 2-4 hours and made $100 after paying for the mulch and all of my business expenses, showed up like yeah whatever because this isn't that big of a job. Insignificant it isn't, but your costs are way higher than mine.

What does surprise me is how you guys get away with bids twice mine.
Which isn't to say I particularly enjoy it when I give a customer my price and they then 'offer' me about half of that again either :laugh:

The way you get away with it is you throw enough **** against the wall, some sticks.

tamadrummer
06-21-2008, 09:11 AM
.

For weed pulling, I pull than spray Bear weedkiller (available at Home Cheapo), it kills weeds but not trees and plants and you don't need a liscense for it.


I am surprised no one else has jumped on this. Yes you do need a Limited Commercial Landscape maintenance license. If you are applying any kind of treatment that is not a plain fertilizer (NOT weed/feed) you have to be licensed to use it on a customers property and then you have to keep records of what you sprayed and what you were targeting and flag the property that it has been sprayed with a pesticide.

Sure there are not too many ag inspectors out running the streets but if your luck is like mine, they will find you on a dead end street in the middle of nowhere spraying and ask for your records and license.

Google florida statute 482 and read it. You will understand after that.

Grits
06-21-2008, 09:37 AM
I am surprised no one else has jumped on this. Yes you do need a Limited Commercial Landscape maintenance license. If you are applying any kind of treatment that is not a plain fertilizer (NOT weed/feed) you have to be licensed to use it on a customers property and then you have to keep records of what you sprayed and what you were targeting and flag the property that it has been sprayed with a pesticide.

Sure there are not too many ag inspectors out running the streets but if your luck is like mine, they will find you on a dead end street in the middle of nowhere spraying and ask for your records and license.

Google florida statute 482 and read it. You will understand after that.

I caught that too. I just didn't say anything. I was stopped last week by the Dept of Ag, I have my limited license and I do things by the book, so no big deal.

Green Team Landscaping
06-22-2008, 08:20 PM
probbaly too late, but, they've got some $ so use that to your advantage.

swampthing
07-05-2008, 06:47 PM
Hey man, that looks really good. Sorry to nit pick, but the bushes aren't all the same height and some look a little rounded and some look somewhat squared. It will look like doo doo at first but I would cut them all the same height and either round them or square them off. Also, on the left side of the entrance under the first bush it looks like there is a grass (like mondo or something) just like on the right side. Are there any more on the left side? If not, pull that one or put more in on the left, because it doesnt look like it really belongs.

JNyz
07-05-2008, 08:40 PM
Hey man, that looks really good. Sorry to nit pick, but the bushes aren't all the same height and some look a little rounded and some look somewhat squared. It will look like doo doo at first but I would cut them all the same height and either round them or square them off. Also, on the left side of the entrance under the first bush it looks like there is a grass (like mondo or something) just like on the right side. Are there any more on the left side? If not, pull that one or put more in on the left, because it doesnt look like it really belongs.

Why would you cut them all the same height???? That would look like sh t

swampthing
07-06-2008, 01:05 AM
Either you are being sarcastic or I should've just said the ones against the house...