Traitors!

[DeepGreenLawn]

OK, I have found many traitors in my organic customers. What I don't get is how they expect me to not notice, I am a lawn care company, it is my job to notice changes in your lawn! It's like your kid stealing a cookie, and when you ask, they can barely say no because their mouth is so full their cheeks are poking out.

Here's the scoop,

Apparently my organic fertilizer is not fast enough at making the deep green that the customers are looking for. I knew this was going to be an issue. I am kind of torn on what to think. On one hand, they didn't drop me and go back to traditional, on the other hand, they are putting chemicals on the lawn and not telling me, I don't want to mess anything up and it's screwing with my results. I can no longer see how my products are doing because I don't know if the customer put their own chems down or not.

Do a lot of you guys deal with this? I can't tell them not to put fertilizer on their lawn, it's their lawn, they can do what the want.

There is one lawn though, on one side of the driveway it is apparent that the house next door is using a traditional fert. I think they are doing it themselves, you know the usual grows 5' a week and a really dark green. But the other side, there is a driveway cutting it off, it is still the same dark green but the grass isn't taking off.

Is that my ferts or is it just a fluke, and the fact that the lawn itself is only a year or so old? It is looking great though. If the customer would just ask I would not have a problem putting down a traditional fert. That is why it is a "Hybrid" program.

I don't know, it is just a little frustrating.

[k911lowe]

organics are nice but regular fertilizer works faster and better.customers all want to use the "in" green thing.

[DeepGreenLawn]

Yeah, they like the idea of organics but then loose their patience. I am slowly trying to ween(?) them off. I knew this would be an issue, organics are pretty new here, so I will have to earn their trust and apparently give them a little "fix" from time to time to keep them happy. At least they are trying, and they should be getting a healthier lawn in the long run.

We shall see, I am sure I will have to get a few totally organic lawns that look great before I can get their complete trust.

[NattyLawn]

I don't get why a customer would pay you to fert, then go buy more product and apply themselves. Wouldn't you be dealing with possible burning issues (that could be a lot of slow and fast release N) and disease. Are you soil testing before switching over? What products are you applying?

[NattyLawn]

organics are nice but regular fertilizer works faster and better.customers all want to use the "in" green thing.

Define how regular fert works "better".

[DeepGreenLawn]

Right now I am using a basic natural fertilizer, from what I understand and percieved is that the organic ferts, I have my own mix of a couple, will not burn the lawn because the organisms break them down as needed. I apply them about every 6 weeks. One of the products is Bills ICT. So I am not too worried about that. It is good though because my ferts, especially at the rate that I apply them, can not burn the lawn so if it does get burned I know it is not my fault.

Like I said, I guess it is a pride thing? My own father-n-law was the first person I caught. He just said he wanted the green effect and that the fert I was using was too slow. His neighbors have companies that just pour N on the lawn and get that fast green grass. Makes me look bad, but... you have to go back to the whole reason they went organic in the first place.

This is what I have been trying to tell you guys, I don't know about your communities but where I live you have to have a greener lawn than the next guy. I have played organics as the newest thing, something your neighbors don't have and it is healthy too. But then the lawn doesn't turn green overnight like their neighbors and it goes back to the whole appearance thing.

That is the #1 complaint I get. My lawn isn't as green as the next guy. Well, because we are growing a healthy lawn and not just pouring chems everywhere. You won't be cutting your grass every other day either like they have to. I have a maintenance customer that I only cut grass for. She uses a small chem company who obviously uses straight N, he/she has to be just going to the local lesco and getting whatever has the highest N #. I cut their lawn everyweek. Compared to my lawn, and all the lawns I treat, it would take about 3 weeks to get the growth she gets in one week. I can't keep up hardly. IT'S INSANE!

OK, sorry for the rant.

[treegal1]

sounds like you need a soil sample, the chem green lawn and yours! then i think that you need to sit down and go over your program, we had the same problems in the beginning, not as green, some patches happened, then we sat down and really got a shedule of what works and what does not work. off the top of my head, your top dress program needs to get stepped up and less product spent, fert is good but it costs, so your in square foot to $$ frame of mind from the start. bottom line more compost and less spray time.

[Kiril]

You need a better bridge.

[Smallaxe]

They simply have the attitude that you are doing a "good thing" and they can brag about being a part of it. However, you have some shortcomings that need to be helped along. Common attitude.
If you found a 'purist' in your customer base they would not have you do anything more than mow. And would probably make you use the manual reel style mower to do it :)

[mrkosar]

sounds like you need a soil sample, the chem green lawn and yours! then i think that you need to sit down and go over your program, we had the same problems in the beginning, not as green, some patches happened, then we sat down and really got a shedule of what works and what does not work. off the top of my head, your top dress program needs to get stepped up and less product spent, fert is good but it costs, so your in square foot to $$ frame of mind from the start. bottom line more compost and less spray time.

what do you use to topdress to avoid breaking your employees backs and still making it a profitable trip?

[treegal1]

we have 2 sources of compost home made and some stuff from a recycling plant, they are composting for me to save themselves disposal.

we have several tools for applying it!!!

[ICT Bill]

The high N fertilizers will make copious amounts of top growth, organic programs grow at a steady rate not a big flush of growth all at once. You need to set your own and your customers expectations. There are some simple things that you could use if you want to compete with the neighbors.

Iron will green up any turf almost immediately, you could move to a bridge fert like Bradfield organics or nutrients plus, you could add some off the shelf NPK to your spray rig.

These sites have turf that are used to getting their nutrients in the top couple of inches of soil, you are changing that factor and trying to encourage healthy root growth and healthy soil, it does not happen in a couple of weeks. Its like someone quitting smoking, it take a little time to transition. Try to set your customer expectations correctly

Plan on core aeration, overseeding, compost tea and compost topdressing in the fall in that order. It is not often that you are able to spray biology down into the soil take advantage of that when core aerating

[DeepGreenLawn]

OK, a little disheartened, disappointed, don't know what to do... this morning.

I have customers that are cheating by putting down their own traditional ferts to get the greening they want. My thoughts are, they are hiring me to give them a nice GREEN lawn. My lawn I have been pouring my ferts on and am about to do a compost topdress. It is as green as it was already without fert, and it is taking it's time filling in.

Where am I going wrong and what can I do to try to keep this going. I am now running out of "juice" to keep this going. My excitedness of going organic is starting to be overrun with customers starting to hint at the fact that it is just not cutting it.

PLEASE HELP!

Where am I going wrong?

Here is the basis of my company,

Fert: Aggrand Natural Fertilizer (this stuff REEKS!) and 123 ICT (not so bad, all the good guys)

Programs: I have traditional and organic-based programs

Traditional: we all know what this is
- this is doing fine, ofcourse it is, there is nothing to it

Organic-based: Traditional weed control and organic ferts
- weed control is great, again, duh... ferts, this is where my problem lies

Organic: Lawn has to be "approved" to go organic, cuts out the weed control and only uses organic ferts.

Aeration, compost, AACT, Overseeding (fall) are all added services.
- I have done a TON of aeration because it is a common practice
- Compost topdress, I have my first estimate this week
- Overseeding, done in the fall

That is about it, my organic prices are higher due to the added cost of ferts and what not, or the potential there of if my crap don't work now.

I am thinking about making an annual agreement type deal where we can piece together a custom program that may include all the services at different times of the year and then broken down in payments each month. That is down the road a little. Right now I just want to get a handle on this stuff and get it working. I know organics takes a little longer, and my expectations may be a little high, BUT, my expectations don't even touch that of my customers.

[DeepGreenLawn]

Cool, the FE won't hurt the biology?

90% of my lawns are bermuda, so my best time to aerate has past, now I believe is still a good time though and I spray the good guys with every treatment. I am trying my hardest to set expectations, I definitly know the growing problem on top, I don't know if it was this post or not but I cut grass for a lady in my neighborhood and her lawn grows as much as mine does in a month in a week. Every time I cut it I have to ask myself if I had cut it the last week or not. Last week I had a delayed response with cutting due to the FD and she cut it herself because it was "out of control." Seven days with very little rain, if your lawn is out of control, something isn't right.

[JDUtah]

Deep, it sounds like you are on the right path. Keep going... The principle of the flywheel might be helpful...

Imagine you are standing before this huge stone flywheel. You want to get it spinning. You put forth a huge amount of effort to spin it and it barely budges... moves like on inch. The trick is to keep pushing at it with everything you have. The next effort will move it a little more, and more. Each effort will add to the last one and eventually the flywheel is spinning freely, easily, and all of your efforts combined will make it unstoppable. (For a more thorough explanation I would recommend you go buy and read the book "Good to Great" by Jim Collins.)

Now having said that, like I said, I think you are on the right path. Organics is a program, a process. Chems can be a one time short 'fix'. Packaging your complete organic program from the start and selling it that way will help the customer understand the whole process before they bite. Selling each NECESSARY service as an up-sell might be too much of a hassle.

If you find what I said useful, just chalk it up as lesson learned and spin the flywheel more by putting together your full organic program and sell as a package... contract? Might be a good idea to help keep the customer commit ed when they want that quick band-aid.

Good luck!

[DeepGreenLawn]

no contract, "agreement", the only reason I would use that is to make sure I get my money if they still owe if, the idea is they won't, they decide to cancel the service. I picked up some FE today to mix in with my product, I will keep it light but that should help with the greening and hopefully the customers satisfaction. They could care less if they have a HEALTHY lawn, they just want a GREEN lawn. Period, end of story. Make my yard green and I will be happy.

[treegal1]

well, that was the problem with our start out program.alot of products and no compost. one day we woke up almost broke from "stuff". the only tangible results were from compost, so we got some dirt from the home store and did a 911 style response, compost for everyone. now we skip the products and head strait for the raw OM ( compost). fert is good, but sadly is out of the price range for most lawns, so compost and then the fert if needed. plus you can monkey around with the compost to add some foods to it that would normally be unregistered or off label, after it hits the dirt it is dirt. most yards get a truck load every 3 months, (about 6/10, 25 gallon containers per quarter)

[DeepGreenLawn]

Is there a compost that you can recommend that I can get being I don't have the time or space to make my own right now? You say the "home store" so I didn't know if you found a good place or not. Also, compost is pretty expensive is it not? I would think that it would be a lot more than fert apps for the customer. How did you put down your compost at first? I guess we should invest in a top dresser of some sort? Why not, just something else to spend the money we don't have on.

Sorry, so your saying compost is where you get your results. It is going to be a pain though, I can't just tear up the yard and reseed like everyone else. All of the yards here are sod. Maybe an old lawn tractor could be an investment to pull something with. Any thoughts in this? It seems the pull behinds are cheaper than the ride or self propelled.

[treegal1]

we started of with black cow brand compost .5 .5 .5 on the bag. we got out the shovel and the rake and the blower.

it goes like this, throw sweep and blow, repeat as needed.

compost expensive??? black cow was 2$ per bag do some math at the .5 .5 .5 and let me know how it stacks up to fert??? try cagles dairy off toonigh rd?? if you need an address get the milk out of the fridge and see if it has an address

or go to a horse farm and talk to them about your compost needs, say can you turn your piles a few times and let me get a temp reading or 2??? THEN YOU SCREEN IT AND GO !!! PAY THEM SOME $$$ NOT A LOT!! also there's a chicken house on every dirt road, see idf theres an OLD pile that you can have, get some cold beers to take with and pour on that fireman charm. happy poo hunting

[DeepGreenLawn]

Your so smart... Cagles is just on the other side. When you say pay them something what do you suggest as a price? And you are correct, there are chicken farms and everything else scattered through out. There is a horse farm just down the street that I am going to go talk to hopefully tomorrow.

I don't know why I haven't thought about this before. I was considering talking to the city and asking if they had an area that I could start a pile, they could have what they wanted to help with plantings if needed, or if it got big enough open it to the public. Maybe even sell a little of it. But your idea sounds a lot easier and makes a lot more since.

[treegal1]

start with cold ale and move up from there??? they may pay YOU to take it so don't blow you cover!!! think country slow and steady

[DeepGreenLawn]

yeah baby, SHOW ME THE MONEY! AND being that I am like the only organic guy around that is probably even considering using compost it is like Free reign!

[JDUtah]

Deep, PM sent. (well sending)

[treegal1]

rent a dumpster and see if they will go get the "stuff" and drop the can off at your (fill in blank as needed) to let it set a while. need air, black drain pipe and a fan???

comon read between the lines, this is survival time get tough, almost out of product and the customers are on the fence???? look at that cuba vid again, no oil no chems no nothing, and they did it!!!

[dishboy]

Ive had a few do that also. Americans are IDIOTS what can I say, they can't wait three weeks. All they see is the neighbors lawn is darker green as they drive by at 45 mph. What they don't see is that the guy is pulling a garbage can of grass off for every 2000 ft and the cut sucks because the five inches of growth and it needs mowing in three days.........stupid Americans.......