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cgaengineer
06-17-2008, 10:34 AM
As a home owner I have installed some low voltage lights (Yes from Home Depot but they are all metal). Before anyone says I should hire a professional or use better equipment I just want to let you know I am going to use what I have. I also do not live in a $500,000+ house or even a $200,000+ house for that matter (In other words I am not going to spend $250 per light on a house that is my first home). If you want to be negative please do not reply...either help me make the best of the materials and equipment I have or do not reply. I'm not trying to come off as an a$$, but you have to understand I have a budget and I am not going over my budget for low voltage lighting. I am trying to come up with the best looking setup for the money. What I have right now is better than about 90% of the homes in my area as most are using solar lights (Yuck!).

I have a 600w transformer with 2 300w outputs (12v and 14v legs).

Around the rear of my home I have 6 18v path lights and 2 20w spots. One of these spots goes all the way around the front to the right side of house to illuminate the rock fascia. Around the front I have 4 path lights and 3 spots. My path is about 10 feet and leads to driveway, the 3 spots will be on the rock fascia of my home


I understand due to voltage drop I cannot daisy chain all of the lights on one run...even if I am using 12 gauge wire. So my question is does anyone make a distribution block that will allow 2 sets of 10 gauge wire out of my transformer to some sort of multiple tap connector for distributing smaller individual runs? This system cannot be looped due to the driveway and I need a way to distribute maybe 8 individual runs of 10-12 gauge wire. I plan to distribute the front with 2 separate wires, one wire for the 4 path lights and one wire for the 3 spots. The rear will be 3 separate wires, one wire for each side of the house with path lights and one wire for the 2 spots (Also the longest run).

Total system usage:
148w (8 lights) rear
132w (6 lights) front
280 Total


For those who choose to help me I appreciate your advice. Since I am a regular poster on the lawn care side I see lawn care snobs over there...I am sure they are here too.

The Lighting Geek
06-17-2008, 10:58 AM
In order to receive a complete answer you should include the length of each home run to the first fixture and the total length of each home run. The hub method is the best method to get equal voltage to each fixture. It consists of a home run to a connection point or hub, and equal length wires to each fixture from there.

cgaengineer
06-17-2008, 11:05 AM
In order to receive a complete answer you should include the length of each home run to the first fixture and the total length of each home run. The hub method is the best method to get equal voltage to each fixture. It consists of a home run to a connection point or hub, and equal length wires to each fixture from there.

OK. I will measure each run tonight and wattage of each light and post back my findings. Thank you for your help.

cgaengineer
06-17-2008, 11:13 AM
In order to receive a complete answer you should include the length of each home run to the first fixture and the total length of each home run. The hub method is the best method to get equal voltage to each fixture. It consists of a home run to a connection point or hub, and equal length wires to each fixture from there.

Pardon my ignorance, but can you point me in the right direction for one of these "hubs"?

Lite4
06-17-2008, 11:41 AM
I use Ace connectors for my hubs. They are made by nightscaping. Unique also makes a hub juction as well. You will find these at locations where professional quality lighting is sold or online lighting only distributors like Cascade or FOLD.

JoeyD
06-17-2008, 12:13 PM
http://www.uniquelighting.com/product_pages/Satellite_hub.htm

The Hub is not a distributor of voltage as much as it is a "wiring method". The Hub itself is nothing more than a connection that gives you a housing so you always know where these connections are at int he ground.

Like Tommy Said, you need to know your distance and load per run! That will help us help you determine your VD and establish whether or not your TF is adequate to produce proper voltage for your lights.

cgaengineer
06-17-2008, 01:47 PM
Thanks fellows for the replies. I will get cable lengths tonight and wattage of each fixture for each run. When using the hub method I assume you use all equal length runs to each individual fixture so that the voltage drop is consistent? I also assume that you can run for example a 10 gauge wire to the hub location and run 14 gauge from the hub to each fixture? This hub would be best placed in a central location to the lights?

As you can see I don't plan on going into low voltage lighting anytime soon and this is for my own benefit. If I can get satisfactory results with my current equipment I will be tickled to death.

JoeyD
06-17-2008, 01:50 PM
you are on the rigth path.....No sense in picking apart your product choices.....if I could make one suggestion that would be to change those 18w incandescent lamps to 20w halogen/Xelogen, better light and color.

cgaengineer
06-17-2008, 03:00 PM
you are on the rigth path.....No sense in picking apart your product choices.....if I could make one suggestion that would be to change those 18w incandescent lamps to 20w halogen/Xelogen, better light and color.

Didn't know you could do that...they are standard automotive style alternating bent loop glass bulbs...do they make a halogen for that? If so I will order some for my new install. If you know the bulb type that may help, if not I will post a picture.

Thanks

JoeyD
06-17-2008, 03:10 PM
post a picture...I think you are describing what would be single contact or double contact bayonet lamps in which case they do make halogen versions.

does it look like this?

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/lighting/bulb4.jpg

klkanders
06-17-2008, 03:53 PM
From his description Joey it could also be the wedge base 921's.......or S8 wedge 3155's?

cgaengineer
06-17-2008, 04:49 PM
From his description Joey it could also be the wedge base 921's.......or S8 wedge 3155's?

Its this style

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/elights_2004_67406973.gif

The path lights are standard and the spots are halogen.

Yes, just like the Kichler 921's

cgaengineer
06-17-2008, 04:54 PM
I found some Xenon 18w bulbs, but I do not see halogens. You all have been a BIG help!!

JoeyD
06-17-2008, 05:11 PM
yeah those are wedge base. You should be able to find some halogen or xenon lamps in wedge base.

Good luck!

Chris J
06-17-2008, 05:16 PM
If you have trouble getting all the home runs into the transformer lugs, then simply use one small length (6-10") of 10ga coming out of the trans, then splice 3-4 home runs to it. This would be a hub at the transformer, splitting off into multiple home runs. You then would split off the end of each home run with a hub to feed your fixtures.

cgaengineer
06-17-2008, 10:49 PM
OK here are my measurements.

Front:

Light Distance Type Watt

1 27 spot 20
2 35 spot 20
3 54 path 18
4 57 path 18
5 60 path 18
6 63 path 18
7 67 spot 20

132 total watts

Rear:

Light Distance Type Watt

1 20 path 18
2 27 path 18
3 35 path 18
4 53 path 18
5 61 path 18
6 67 path 18
7 88 spot 20
8 121 spot 20

148 total watts

Distance is in feet. All lights measured from point of connection at transformer.

cgaengineer
06-18-2008, 07:29 AM
When you do runs across grass areas do you normally place low voltage cable inside conduit or do you direct bury? If placing wire in beds do you also use conduit?

Chris J
06-18-2008, 08:46 AM
It would be a good idea to use conduit when crossing the bed lines, but other than that just use direct burial cable. I prefer to just lay it deep. It's easier for me to find a cut wire once in a blue moon than it is to conduit every single job.

cgaengineer
06-18-2008, 08:56 AM
It would be a good idea to use conduit when crossing the bed lines, but other than that just use direct burial cable. I prefer to just lay it deep. It's easier for me to find a cut wire once in a blue moon than it is to conduit every single job.

I assume 6"-8" would be deep enough for low voltage and allow enough protection from aerator spoons?

JoeyD
06-18-2008, 11:16 AM
OK here are my measurements.

Front:

Light Distance Type Watt

1 27 spot 20
2 35 spot 20
3 54 path 18
4 57 path 18
5 60 path 18
6 63 path 18
7 67 spot 20

132 total watts

Rear:

Light Distance Type Watt

1 20 path 18
2 27 path 18
3 35 path 18
4 53 path 18
5 61 path 18
6 67 path 18
7 88 spot 20
8 121 spot 20

148 total watts

Distance is in feet. All lights measured from point of connection at transformer.


2 hubs in front and 2-3 hubs in back. More than likely you will run that last fixture that is 121 feet away strait back to the transformer on its own line. I dont think you will need more than a 14v tap max, more than likely you wont go beyond 13 but again I dont know what kind of unit you are using and what kind of VD you have right at the transformer taps. Your 12v tap may really only operate like a 12v tap once loaded up.

You only need 12ga wire at these distances and wattages.

Good Luck!

cgaengineer
06-18-2008, 11:30 AM
2 hubs in front and 2-3 hubs in back. More than likely you will run that last fixture that is 121 feet away strait back to the transformer on its own line. I dont think you will need more than a 14v tap max, more than likely you wont go beyond 13 but again I dont know what kind of unit you are using and what kind of VD you have right at the transformer taps. Your 12v tap may really only operate like a 12v tap once loaded up.

You only need 12ga wire at these distances and wattages.

Good Luck!

Thanks Joey,

I am afraid to tell you the transformer model (:cry::cry:Hampton Bay 600w :cry::cry:). It does have the 12 and 14 volt taps though. Well it looks like everyone should buy stock in wire as I will need a ton of it...at least I will have the wiring down if I ever want to replace the lights and the transformer with better equipment!!

JoeyD
06-18-2008, 11:34 AM
Hope for the best but plan for the worst!!! LOL

You figure worst case scenario you have to go out and buy a good transformer. Someone told me that Unique makes a pretty good unit, life time warranty on the whole transformer including EVERY COMPONENT IN THE UNIT (minus timer and photo cell)!

Shameless I know!!

Have fun and good luck, let us know if you have any other questions!

cgaengineer
06-18-2008, 11:50 AM
Is this the correct way to splice my hubs? (This is not correct wire, just an illustration from some wire I had laying around at work). I will solder and tape of course.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/IMG00278.jpg

Am I correct in assuming I will run 2-3 12 gauge leads to the first 3 paths, the second set of 3 paths and spot and one single to my last spot for the rear. From these three leads I will "hub"
See picture:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/20080618104328032_0001.jpg

cgaengineer
06-18-2008, 12:02 PM
Hope for the best but plan for the worst!!! LOL

You figure worst case scenario you have to go out and buy a good transformer. Someone told me that Unique makes a pretty good unit, life time warranty on the whole transformer including EVERY COMPONENT IN THE UNIT (minus timer and photo cell)!

Shameless I know!!

Have fun and good luck, let us know if you have any other questions!

You and I know what I am working with...yes not the best quality...not even close, but for my small house and the fact that in my spare time I like to get out in my yard and work...this should be a fun experience for me and a definite learning experience for sure...I will have the right wire installed for a good base for upgrading at a later time if I am not happy (Hopefully I will be happy). I am normally not one to buy cheap stuff just look at my sig, but for me, lighting is not something I want to spend a fortune on right now...not at this house anyway.

I thank you all for your replies and although doubtful I would ever go into business installing lights...I will have learned some of what it takes to do it right. Considering the lower quality equipment I am using this should be a challenge as I am sure higher quality equipment is a little more forgiving of wiring errors do to long runs, high internal resistance of the transformer and poor connections at each light (Which I plan to solder).

Lite4
06-18-2008, 12:14 PM
Chris, for me the issue of the transformer is more an issue of safety than it is of cheap equipment. Yes, the transformer is cheap, but those things seem to be big fire hazards in my opinion. Certainly your house is worth more than the price of upgrading to a 300 or 600 watt professional grade transformer with all the built in overload protection. Just thinking out loud here. Keep your fixtures, no big deal. But, If it were me and knowing what I know about trannies. I wouldn't screw around with that part of it. But, that's just me.

JoeyD
06-18-2008, 12:25 PM
NO NO NO!!!! dont make a hub like that or you will create a short....I was looking for some graphics or pictures. I have a meeting so I dont have time but go to this link and see what you can learn from the instruction book when it talks about the hub system.

I will see what else I can find.

http://www.uniquelighting.com/customer_support/Guide%20to%20Technical%20Services.pdf

cgaengineer
06-18-2008, 12:27 PM
Chris, for me the issue of the transformer is more an issue of safety than it is of cheap equipment. Yes, the transformer is cheap, but those things seem to be big fire hazards in my opinion. Certainly your house is worth more than the price of upgrading to a 300 or 600 watt professional grade transformer with all the built in overload protection. Just thinking out loud here. Keep your fixtures, no big deal. But, If it were me and knowing what I know about trannies. I wouldn't screw around with that part of it. But, that's just me.

I understand where you are coming from. I do have the tranny mounted outside and plugged into a GFCI outlet (Fast tripping circuit breaker too). The transformer is metal with plastic outer shell and is actually very heavy...it seems to be built pretty well. If you still think its a fire hazard I can move the unit away from the house and mount it on my wood fence (Worse case scenario the pressure treated wood would smolder for a few hours). I will likely upgrade the transformer to a heavier model soon as the prices are really not too bad for a good one.

cgaengineer
06-18-2008, 12:40 PM
NO NO NO!!!! dont make a hub like that or you will create a short....I was looking for some graphics or pictures. I have a meeting so I dont have time but go to this link and see what you can learn from the instruction book when it talks about the hub system.

I will see what else I can find.

http://www.uniquelighting.com/customer_support/Guide%20to%20Technical%20Services.pdf

My illustration is one leg of the wire, not both. Notches in the 10ga wire for each +/- side. See image

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/20080618113606016.jpg

Chris J
06-18-2008, 09:49 PM
That's still not a hub even though you are maintaining polarity. What you are doing in this illustration is creating a daisy chain where each light is in series down the main home run. What you want to do is have the home run go to a central point. All of your fixture wires will then extend back to that central point. You will strip all of the wire ends, put all of the commons together and put all the hots together in which ever manner you choose. The point in which all of these ends meet is called a hub. Your reading too much into it. A hub is not a "thing" so to speak. It is simply where the voltage from the transformer is split off to feed various fixtures.
You should just hire a professional already. I'm tired.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
06-18-2008, 10:53 PM
Well it looks like everyone should buy stock in wire as I will need a ton of it...

Thanks for the tip but I will hold off for now. :laugh:

I just ordered 1800 meters of 12/2 and 300 meters of 8/2 for a single job I will be doing in July... (That is about 6930 feet for you American / Imperial unit types)

In case any of you want to buy stock in that company, the Manufacturer is Domtech here in Ontario. :canadaflag:

Have a fun day!

cgaengineer
06-19-2008, 12:28 AM
That's still not a hub even though you are maintaining polarity. What you are doing in this illustration is creating a daisy chain where each light is in series down the main home run. What you want to do is have the home run go to a central point. All of your fixture wires will then extend back to that central point. You will strip all of the wire ends, put all of the commons together and put all the hots together in which ever manner you choose. The point in which all of these ends meet is called a hub. Your reading too much into it. A hub is not a "thing" so to speak. It is simply where the voltage from the transformer is split off to feed various fixtures.
You should just hire a professional already. I'm tired.

I will draw another picture tomorrow.

cgaengineer
06-19-2008, 10:26 AM
Please see the following pdf that shows how I plan to wire. If this is correct I appreciate all of the help.

http://www.gaengineer.com/hl.pdf

JoeyD
06-19-2008, 10:58 AM
Thats Perfect!!

cgaengineer
06-19-2008, 11:25 AM
Thats Perfect!!

Thats the idea I was trying to convey yesterday with my hand sketch but it didn't work. The notches in the cables were for the 10ga wire leads coming off the transformer and would be a better connection then trying to wire in 4 runs with wire nuts. I would solder and tape these connections.

Now is it important that the wires leading from each hub to lights be of equal length or close or since they are going to be short runs it really shouldn't matter very much? And I assume that equal wire lengths for the home runs leading to the hubs from transformer should also be of equal length?

I may just lay everything out just like in my cad drawing and measure my voltage drops, once I get everything working within 1-2 volts drop I should be good. My lighting should be fairly even across my setup. I will then replace the Incandescent bulbs with some Xenon bulbs for a whiter light.

Thanks Joey for being patient with me (saw some frustration in your post last night)...sometimes its hard to describe on a forum how to do stuff...especially technical stuff, but I appreciate you taking time to explain as well as the others who replied.

Once complete I will come back here and post a night shot with my camera gear. I happen to be an amateur photographer in my spare time so if you ever need help with camera settings or pictures please let me know. I use all Nikon Digital gear and have a bag full of lenses with my widest lens being a 12mm for taking shots such as this.

Here are a few night shots I took:

All shots except balloon were taking at my house.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/DSC_8849_sm.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/DSC_2589.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/DSC_2469.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/DSC_4781.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/Night%20Shots/DSC_0559_sm.jpg

JoeyD
06-19-2008, 11:46 AM
Great pics!!

I wasnt frustrated at you just frustrated at not being able to dig up a photo of a made hub and frustrated that i couldnt convey properly what i was trying to explain! I cant belive I cant find one...I have thousands of photos at my disposal so sometimes tracking certain photos can be time consuming.

As for the wire lengths.....The Home Run wire lengths (wire from transformer to Hub) do not need to be equal lengths. The length of those runs will be determined upon your hub locations.

But the lead wires from Fixture to Hub should be as close to equal as possible just to ensure equal voltage distribution. That is really the whole purpose of the Hub system. But just know this.....we put 25ft of 16/2 or 18/2 on our fixtures. We know through 25ft we will lose approx. .5v. So ideally we set our hubs somewhere between 11.5 and 12.3-5. So now we lose our .5v and we are between 11 and 12v at our fixtures.

So lets say I set my Hub at 11.5 and I have 4 lights on the hub. 3 are 25ft away but one is only 13ft away. So I cut the wire lead on that light down to size........what I need to know is that the 3 lights at 25ft will be burning at 11v but the one that is cut down to 13ft will probably be burning aroun 11.3v. This is OK. The human eye will never see the difference and it is still operating in the halogen range required. Point is to make sure that all lights are burning between the required 10.8 and 12v. I say between 11 and 12v just to be safe.

Good Luck with the install, let me know if you have any other questions. If you would prefer to talk by phone by all means feel free to call me. Make sure to post some night time pics of your home when your all done!

Joey D.

cgaengineer
06-19-2008, 11:48 AM
And one more, this was taken in Atlanta, GA

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/Night%20Shots/ATLANTA.jpg

JoeyD
06-19-2008, 11:49 AM
that is a sweet picture!

cgaengineer
06-19-2008, 12:00 PM
that is a sweet picture!

Thought you would like it. Its a shame I don't have much time anymore to do photography...I have a D200, D70 and a D80 sitting at home collecting dust!

I have a ton of photos I should post one day...lots of birds of prey (Most in the wild), animals, motorcycles and air shows.

Since you commented on my photos I will post a few more.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/DSC_0420.jpg

RT Hawk (Wild)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/DSC_7496_sm.jpg

Osprey (Wild)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/DSC_1375_SM.jpg

Deer (Wild)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/DSC_9992-01.jpg

Green Heron (Wild)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/Green%20Heron/Green-Heron.jpg

RT Hawk (Wild and quite a rare catch)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/Redtail%20Hawk%20Sept%2014%202006/DSC_7067_sm.jpg

RT Hawk (Same bird as above)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/Redtail%20Hawk%20Sept%2014%202006/DSC_7076_sm.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/Redtail%20Hawk%20Sept%2014%202006/DSC_7045_sm.jpg

Green Tree Frog (Wild and on my 4 O'clocks)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/Green%20Tree%20Frog%202006/DSC_1858.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/Green%20Tree%20Frog%202006/DSC_1852.jpg

Red Shoulder Hawk Pair(Wild)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/RS%20Hawk/Untitled-1.jpg

F-16 (Vapor Trail)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/The%20Great%20Georgia%20Air%20Show/DSC_8352.jpg

RT Hawk (Wild)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/cgaengineer/Red%20Tail%20Hawk%20and%20Rabbit%20Sept%202006/DSC_7329_sm.jpg
If you want to see more let me know...consider these shots as a thank you.

JoeyD
06-19-2008, 12:44 PM
Nice.....Do you want to sell one of those cameras???? Mayeb a trade? I need a New camera.

cgaengineer
06-19-2008, 02:39 PM
Nice.....Do you want to sell one of those cameras???? Mayeb a trade? I need a New camera.

I would consider selling the D70 actually. Let me come up with a price. I do not have any lenses to let go, but I could point you in the right direction for a good one.

JoeyD
06-19-2008, 02:40 PM
check your PM

cgaengineer
06-19-2008, 03:19 PM
check your PM

Replied...

Chris J
06-19-2008, 06:49 PM
Dang Joey, you beat me to the question! I need a camera also.
Chris, you may already know this, but when you start trenching, you want the trench to run past all of your fixtures so you can lay all the wires in the same trench. Even the light on the front will go in the same trench, it will just be all by itself once it passes the last light on the back of the house. Of course, the trench is going to have to split off at some point to get to that spot way in the back. Just make that trench the shortest route to that spot from your main trench. Good luck, and great pics by the way!

JoeyD
06-19-2008, 06:51 PM
you snooze you lose...I will sell it to you for $700! LOL

Chris J
06-19-2008, 07:09 PM
Bite me.....

JoeyD
06-19-2008, 07:12 PM
LOL..........I love you Chris!! Your posts truly always crack me up!! Is it hot in FL yet?

Chris J
06-19-2008, 07:19 PM
Is it hot? Does a duck have a water-tight a**hole? I spent the day putting up privacy fence at my new home, and I had to come in a few times to cool off. But one of those cooling off periods was due to a nosey neighbor who stopped by to introduce herself and ask if I had pulled permits and got an approval from the ARB. I told her to go fly a kite. "This is my house, and I'm the one paying for it. If I do something that degredates the community, then please let me know. Otherwise, get the hell off my property!"

I've stated before that I hate subdivisons and "restrictions". But the one I moved into has to get the award for "MOST UPTIGHT PEOPLE ON THE PLANET!" These people need a hobby. I can't wait to hear what they have to say when I put in the lighting! This should be fun.

JoeyD
06-19-2008, 07:21 PM
I couldnt imagine! I choose to live in the woods!

103deg. here today! SMOKIN!

David Gretzmier
06-19-2008, 10:48 PM
There's a d100 body on ebay for 473 buy it now, and a few d70's for around the same price smaller zoom lens. check the picture count.

cgaengineer
06-19-2008, 11:41 PM
Joey,

Got the camera all boxed up and ready to go. I have included a small CF card (128 mb) and an extra camera strap.

Box contents:

-D70 Camera
-Body Cap
-50mm f/1.8 Nikon lens (front and rear caps) To be sent back to me when you get a lens...I suggest the Nikon 18-200 VR for what you described you would be shooting. No hurry sending back the lens...BUT I DO WANT IT BACK!!
-Battery
-Emergency Battery Pack
-Charger
-Eye Piece Cover (For blocking eypiece during long exposure at night)
-Camera Straps x2
-CD containing two in depth books describing in detail how to use the D70 (The book that should have came with the D70) and the software for processing and viewing RAW files (Your graphics guys will or should be familiar with Nikon Capture 4.4)

All of this will either be shipped UPS or Fed Ex and I will supply you with a tracking number once the shipping has been complete. Everything is packed in the original D70 box and wrapped in plastic.

This is a great camera...so great in fact, I had 2 of them! You should get years of service from this camera and I hope you enjoy every minute learning how to use it. If you ever have any question on how to use feel free to contact me anytime.

cgaengineer
06-19-2008, 11:52 PM
Dang Joey, you beat me to the question! I need a camera also.
Chris, you may already know this, but when you start trenching, you want the trench to run past all of your fixtures so you can lay all the wires in the same trench. Even the light on the front will go in the same trench, it will just be all by itself once it passes the last light on the back of the house. Of course, the trench is going to have to split off at some point to get to that spot way in the back. Just make that trench the shortest route to that spot from your main trench. Good luck, and great pics by the way!

I will do this...I will be digging by hand as most of my runs are in the beds beside the house and are too narrow with my shrubs for a trencher (Luckily the soil near house on all 4 sides is very soft top soil so digging will go pretty fast). Eventually the 2 grass areas I have to trench will become beds so I wont have to wait on bermuda to grow back either. This is a job for directional boring!!

cgaengineer
06-19-2008, 11:55 PM
Is it hot? Does a duck have a water-tight a**hole? I spent the day putting up privacy fence at my new home, and I had to come in a few times to cool off. But one of those cooling off periods was due to a nosey neighbor who stopped by to introduce herself and ask if I had pulled permits and got an approval from the ARB. I told her to go fly a kite. "This is my house, and I'm the one paying for it. If I do something that degredates the community, then please let me know. Otherwise, get the hell off my property!"

I've stated before that I hate subdivisons and "restrictions". But the one I moved into has to get the award for "MOST UPTIGHT PEOPLE ON THE PLANET!" These people need a hobby. I can't wait to hear what they have to say when I put in the lighting! This should be fun.

Sounds like my neighbor...same situation...installing fence she said it was too close to the front of the house...installing sod and was hauling water in by truck to keep alive during drought and she kept calling police. If I am not harming anyone and I am increasing my real estate value by imporvements...leave me the hell alone!!

JoeyD
06-20-2008, 10:15 AM
Thanks Chris...Look forward to getting the camera!!

klkanders
06-20-2008, 10:53 AM
Hey I want that camera! Joey you are too busy to use it! :) I know Chris J was second in line but he will be too busy also arguing with his lady friend and the rest of the neighbors. Did you offer her some lemonaide? :)

Nice Pics Chris!

JoeyD
06-20-2008, 10:58 AM
your a day late and a dollar short Kieth!! I need a good camera for my off road photo taking....Obiously I will play with it for night time photos as well but my boy Paul here at Unique has us taken care of with the lighting photos...he is getting really good!

cgaengineer
06-20-2008, 04:29 PM
Camera has been shipped....

JoeyD
06-20-2008, 05:55 PM
wooohooooo!!!! Time to sell the old Camera!