What is he using?

[DeepGreenLawn]

I was doing some apps today and the other, there are only two of us, organic-based company in town was also making an app down the street. I wandered what he was putting down though, he was using a lesco spreader and it looked like synthetic ferts, difinitely granular and was going down at the app my synthetics go down, but I wasn't sure. I was originally under the impression that they were fully organic but got home and found that they were organic-based. Or that they had the option. It is a franchise so I am certain he is having to follow their rules and procedures.

As I left the neighborhood I went by his two lawns and they were both a good green. Do you think it was a traditional fert he was putting down or have they found the secret granular formula to use? I think it was traditional. Unless it was a bridge product. Their site says that certain dealers(?) have the organics option. So that makes me think they are actually more traditional than they are organic.

One day I plan on dropping all my traditional and going straight organic. Especially with this drought coming back again, every time I make a traditional treatment, and I don't make many, I picture myself begging the customer to let me do organics instead. I just hate the idea of putting the chems on the lawn with the stresses they are under.

[treegal1]

you drove by and did not get a sample of his fert, and a soil sample...... what can ya do..............

he dont have your address yet does he, industrial espionage

[wallzwallz]

DeepGreen, even organics need some water. Are you under water restrictions ? There are full organic, granulated ferts. The better they are, the more they cost, at least around here, usually 35-50$ per bag and a recommended 20 lbs/K. I've used Roots, Fertrell and Natures Turf w/ very good results but not all can afford that price. I also like to use Cheep-Cheep, composted chicken manure, fert for building OM. I use before customers will be around as it smells a little fowl when applying but is good in a day or so.

[DeepGreenLawn]

I am using a liquid, I know there are organic products but like you said, they are through the roof. I think either next year or next treatment, I am going to start putting down more and more compost. I just have to figure my cost until I can get my own going. This guy was in and out too quick for it to be anything like that though. And I don't see him making any money if that were the case with the franchise fees and all. He is still a one man crew. I met him on the street once. I wanted to stop by and talk to him but he was gone by the time I got finished.

Treegal, I bet it takes A LOT of compost to be able to treat all of your customers, how many apps/year would you say you make avg per year?

And water restrictions? You wouldn't believe what we got. My county just backed off enough that we can use our irrigation systems again. I don't know how they did it but I sure am glad I live where I do right now. Everyone else is still under the old, if that tells you anything, water restrictions. You can HAND water and nothing else. Literally, no sprinklers at the end of the hose, no sprinkler systems. The hose has to be in your hand while watering. It has been like this for more than a year now. Going on two I believe. We thought we were coming out but it looks like it was just a break. Last year we all of our lakes were literally drying up. We were in fights with Florida because they wanted to save some muscles. I know they are beneficial, but... how much water do they need anyways?

[treegal1]

dont know maybe 6, we use a lot of post, so far this year 475 tons. the net income from that is a shocker, we get paid....

35% of that is manure, the other 35% is wood waste,30% other inputs/waste.

[DeepGreenLawn]

so basically it is half and half manure and wood with additives along the way?

[treegal1]

the additives are where its at, the sea weed, muck, veg waste, sea critter waste................ you seen the list.

the manure removal has blossomed to be very lucrative

also we do weight so the water throws the volume off, picture 25 dumpsters full, that's one dumpster per week, 4 yards cu per day, 5 days. 2 guys putting down and one making it(blending)

[JDUtah]

Tree, all of your 'composting' is done via redworms... correct?

[treegal1]

no there are several ways we do it, worms, silos/ towers indoors, and on the dump trailers(air under static pile)

[treegal1]

on wheels composting 40 tons per 60 days
indoors in vessel(towers) 40 tons per month( some pre composting )
worms, close to 5 -7 tons per week

alot of the foods are pre composted/started off site

[DeepGreenLawn]

That is a good question JD, also, in what fashion are your 2 guys putting it down? Are they using one of your gadgets or wheel barrel and rake?

I have began talking to a friend who has some horses. She said she has two piles, one that is old and hard to get to and the other is pretty new. I am going to go look at them on thursday. I am also going to stop by all the horse farms around here, there are quite a few. The only problem is that I would have to keep them on site, so I don't see me making any money right now carrying it off as I have nowhere to put it. The amount of customers would require A LOT more compost than I need right now. How many farms, or horses I guess, would it take to support about 30-40 customers? I am sure I will probably be relying mostly on bags and suppliers for right now. I read on another old post that one yard will cover about 1K sq ft. Do you find that to be about right?

HEHE, I had a fun idea, seriously doubt it would work but it was fun to imagine it, I saw a concrete truck going down the road turning its load.:D

[JDUtah]

ahhh. ok.. and nice use of resources! :clapping:

[DeepGreenLawn]

I wander what it would take to turn a concrete trucks holding tank(?). If you could find a used parts place that had them I am sure they wouldn't be that expensive and that could hold a load of compost. and you could off load it however they get the concrete off. I have never seen the inside of their tanks so I have no idea how it works. Even still, you could just cut a door in the side and have it swing open when you were ready. Shoot, you probably could get a welder to make a something like that with lighter material pretty cheap wouldn't you think? Then you wouldn't need such a big power source to turn the thing.

[treegal1]

it all get loaded into nursery containers 25 gallon?? loaded on to little trailers, 5x8s, and used at every stop, around 1 ton per 4000 K sq. the spread is done in many ways, roller-screen( rolling wire drum) towed with an old Dixie, lesco 48 inch drop spreader(old and some mods),hydro seeder,red plastic sling-er( looks like a wiffle ball bat with one side missing), quite honestly I dont care as long as it hits the ground(in mass amounts) after the spread blow and go!!!


DGL drain pipe????3-5 foot diameter

[JDUtah]

deep... maybe not ecomomical, and maybe so if it was just on a trailer... but that would be awesome.. I could see you load a concrete truck with your different materials, turn it daily(or fairly constantly?), and when ready to spread, drive to the site and unload it just like concrete... and right into your... http://www.ecolawnapplicator.com/index.html

My back is thinking... Winner!

[treegal1]

bills been here, along with several others, one guy from up there drove all day for the nickel tour. or look at the pictures of compost t brewer posts again ??

those trucks are heavy try plastic, or rent a dumpster

[ICT Bill]

And I have to say I was treated like a KING, Thank you guys again for your wonderful hospitality, I am still talking non stop about meeting you and Phil and King Phillip.

I have to say, I have met a few folks around the US and I have never seen technology meet the aztecs quite like you guys, very up to date and able to rely on yourselves.

My hat (shoot I don't wear one) is off to TG and company

Lets do the Jensen Beach dance
:cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2:

[DeepGreenLawn]

yeah, it would be a pain to load it too, the 5 gallon drain pipe would work though... then when your ready to turn it just hit it with your truck, get it to roll a few times and then in a day or so, hit it again. It would be clean too, that I could put in more inconspicuous places.

I hear you when you say just get it on the ground. I would like to come and just look at all your little gadgets you got going. You sound like Agent M(?) from james bond.

I got the 5X8 trailer, but I am not sure what you mean by nursery containers. I will research that one.

[DeepGreenLawn]

Yeah, I know, I am an idiot. Nursery container = plastic pot they grow stuff in. I know, I know, I amaze you guys with my smarts.

Moderator... feel free to erase my last post.

Thanks,

[treegal1]

Bill we enjoyed having you, thanks.

DGL stop moving the sh*t, air is light and easy to move, turn it why, oh it needs air, got it, so one air pumper is in order, don't ask wiki it first, we don't want another container incident.........what is to become of that old pile, wire and a shovel??? soon to be spread??? take a meat thermometer when ya go or get a good one for 40 pesos,

and pesos, any new labor to work this stuff with, think how many N's you get and pay for 1/2 of what you use v BAGGED GOODS. trust me low wage = low cost fert, some one wants the job, find them.2 men = 3 times the work....

or just chuck some dingles(animal biscuits) down and hit it with the mow

[DeepGreenLawn]

I finally found one of your pics tree, it has your plastic drain pipe in it. Is this being composted by time or do you have worms working on it? I was thinking capping if off, don't exactly know how as of yet, and just rolling it around to get the air moving in it from time to time, but if I can just stick the end of my blower in it for a minute to get the air flowing that works too.

[DeepGreenLawn]

I like the idea of the black totes, clean and simple. I could even put a few in my own yard and I don't think my wife would be too mad. Especially if I covered them up. My parents have about 1/2 acre with a barn and I know I could get quite a few back there. How did you say you got the air into it?

Hey tree, or anyone else, I know we have looked at something like this before, but what do you think the mechanism looks like at the bottom that feeds the compost out? The spreader I had posted had a bar with teeth that fed the fert out so I figured it would be something similar.

[ICT Bill]

There is no way around it Compost is difficult and time consuming to apply. You will find with that applicator, if the compost is a little wet it will bridge and stop the flow. You are constantly having to stick something down there to get the flow back. It is a pain, unless the compost is dry

For the small units like that it is best to have 1 or 2 more people with you so while one is pushing the unit others are meeting you with wheel barrows of compost so you can keep moving, it goes much faster

[treegal1]

DGL 3/8 inch screen. that green thing will pass a stone its just expanded wire mesh on the bottom nothing special. and bill summed it up, compost = hard work, get a labor to do it not a 50$ hour soil specialist like your self. we have even used a cone style spreader on a tractor, just compost it(wish i had a compost swish,like Nike)

[jeffinsgf]

DGL

Spend as much time on eBay as you do here. You'll find a used topdresser in your budget in a matter of weeks. Scrape the rust off, replace the severely broken parts, throw a couple of cans of Krylon at it, and get to work. Until you find it, wheel barrow, pitch fork and rake.

You need a source of ready-to-go compost. Now. I have a hard time believing that there isn't someplace within a reasonable distance from you where you can buy good 'post for under $20 a yard. Check the cities around you -- many of them are getting in the game. Making your own is an admirable goal, but if you had the space, raw materials and equipment tomorrow morning when you woke up, it wouldn't help you or your customers for a few more months. Don't give up on the goal, but don't let it get in the way of serving your current customers.

[treegal1]

yep , i dont want to be an I told ya so but ................

[ICT Bill]

Jeff, well said

find it......or do it...........get it done

[Kiril]

or just chuck some dingles(animal biscuits) down and hit it with the mow

Just make sure they ain't too wet. :laugh:

[jeffinsgf]

BTW, DGL:

I googled: "compost georgia" and got 379,000 hits. One of them is near you and waiting for your call.

[jeffinsgf]

...
or just chuck some dingles(animal biscuits) down and hit it with the mow

About a third of the organic matter in my vegetable garden is from the herbivores at our zoo. They compost it for a year and sell it for two weekends in the fall and two weekends in the spring. $40 for all you can fit in a pickup bed -- limit one load per customer. They call it Zoo-Doo. Most of it is 'posted really well, but occasionally you can still judge what type of animal dropped what. The zebra looks just like horse (duh) and there's no problem distinguishing the elephant from the antelope. I added the leftovers from the garden project to my compost pile, and boy, did it fire up the activity.

TG: I like the drain pipes on end. It kills me when I scatter stuff with my tractor when I turn my pile. If I had a couple of those and an improvised funnel, I could speed up the process and reduce my scatter waste dramatically. Now, to locate the biggest ones I can find that someone is trying to get rid of.

[DeepGreenLawn]

There are a few places around that sells compost, but they all take a lot of pride in their product if you know what I mean. I found some mushroom compost down the street I am going to check out today, when I called to ask they asked if I wanted bags or bulk. I said bulk and they had to actually go look up the price. They literally have mountains of mulch and compost so I am guessing that they are a supplier to other companies. I have never seen amounts like these.

[ICT Bill]

The bane of mushroom growers is the left overs, the waste literally controls their business model in a bad way.

Step carefully here, mushroom left overs are not always a good source of compost, if it was that pile would have been gone a long time ago. Make sense?

Mushroom growers use a lot of inputs that other plants don't like, you will have to discuss it with them or speak to your local extention agent about the product. Take some and do a soil test first, the couple of dollars that you will spend on a test may save your butt in the field

[DeepGreenLawn]

OK thanks. The thing is though is that they have mountains of everything. You know how most places just have a little section of blocks full of products? Well, this is LITERALLY mountains. Like a good 100' maybe? or more in the air mountains. You can see them coming down the road. But I will still look very carefully into their product.

Here is their website...

http://www.woodtechmulch.com/

[treegal1]

there pictures of soil........ that's gonna take some work to fix that....and its not going to get out of a spreader that nice........your headed down the blend path now, pile of that( i would want to be paid to take that stuff)some OLD manure, little lime? and screen what you need the day before.

fyi the tubes get air from the bottom with a pump

[DeepGreenLawn]

a pump? I am sorry for my ignorance, you just have a hose hooked in the side and a pump pushes it through? I guess that makes since. Never mind. I will find the right pump on my own. Thanks for the info.

I went by there today and looked at their products. The compost didn't impress me and it still needed to be screened which meant more $$. They did however have a mix, their soil ammendment or something? that was cheaper, $15 rather than $20. They said it was a mix of pot ash(?), top soil, and mushroom compost. It looked pretty good, about as good as the compost itself, but it made me feel better looking at that for some reason, and it was already screened.

Does that sound feasible or should I just go buy black cow from HD by the bag and be done with it?

[treegal1]

whoa, coal plant ash or slag from smelting, run dont walk away from that stuff, not me, sounds like heavy metals!!!

look you just went to some large operations waste stream out put, you got to start on the other end( or rear end) at the farm or waste sorce, tree guys pay to get rid of chips, manure( like i says so often start with some old shite) them get your compost on, dads old barn or a small 25x25 pile will be a gold mine in 6 weeks!!

air pump= think how many air pumps there are in the world, vacume, bath fan, ring blower, duct fan.... just keep your eyes open for an air mover, air is air is air

[treegal1]

go to the hose farm today and get a load of old manure, you need a wire cloth, any kind will work, ( today is not brain surgery day)sime wood to hold it flat?? like sides and a bottom?? take a shovel and a pitchfork and figure it out, the screen sets at an angle.watch this carfuly no sound first then sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLFnng9Oqew

50 kg = 110 lbs

[DeepGreenLawn]

that is awesome, I saw the screen you were talking about too.

The manure... will it burn the lawn if it is not finished enough? I went by a farm and talked to another. This is fun. I have to service treatments to do today and a few tomorrow and then I will be set.

Thanks

[treegal1]

thats it walk the walk, im taking my camera and going to do it and post the photos, not my usual 20 yards, just a 5x8 so you get the feel, walk the walk rite?? see ya later, with my new poo!!!!

dont be afraid to say your inputs arent ready yet??

[DeepGreenLawn]

where do you get this wire cloth from? I can't find it anywhere, I tried wire mesh I think and it pulled up like a wire fence.

[Yard]

watch this carfuly no sound first then sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLFnng9Oqew

50 kg = 110 lbs

Wow. What a great thing that kid is doing. Best of luck to him. Talk about making the best of your situation!

I just feel sorry for the azz pulling the delivery cart with all those 110 lb bags. ;)

[treegal1]

HD or ace 1/8 - 1/2 or larger?? chicken wire x 2 layers, masons lath. go to a home store and wander around, ask some one. look at some google images (compost screen) how about YOU TUBE ????

got a load of horse gold, pics will be along asap, the fire wires gone bad.

[DeepGreenLawn]

Sorry, I was going to post earlier but my computer is a peice of the stuff we were both looking at today. Anyway...

Whoever says being a pack rat isn't worth it is dead wrong. I went out to my parents barn and started rumaging around. I found an air compressor for one that I don't think anyone in the family new we had and by the time I came out of there I had a preassembled frame for the screen, a pitchfork, not mine just another one laying around, a shovel, two wheel barrels, and a whole truck load of tools, which I left in place. That is just the top of the list, I felt like I had walked into a hidden temple, I was finding stuff that I could use with every turn. This is also where I found the sprayer I am currently rebuilding.

Yes, I am currently working on a project and yall are not getting bumbarded with questions. Trust me, I only ask questions for as long as I need to, once I get going I go. Hard to believe I am one pump away from having this sprayer finished and you haven't heard a word about it for about a month or so isn't it.

Once you get back from double checking who is making this post we shall continue.

So, I went by two horse locations. The first is a pretty new farm here in town just down the street. She didn't really know manure about what she was doing let alone the concept I was trying to explain to her. But she was extremely nice and VERY helpful so I don't mind. Her pile of "manure/compost" was really a pile of fresh from the barn shavings. I am sure it was about 99% shavings and 1% manure. I couldn't even see any trace of manure, just shavings. Is this common?

The second pile had truly been there a while. And was easy to get to, I don't know about getting it out though. It is built basically by dumping it down a slope. You can follow the slope from the sides to get an idea of where the ground goes and I walked out about half way to the end of the pile and just started digging. Again, the stuff on top was still pretty "fresh" looking. I take it shavings don't decompose to well. I figured the ground was about 5-6 feet below me at this point, took my fork and started digging. I got down about 3-4 feet down and it finally started getting gooey and black. I figured I finally hit the treasure. Digging was easy, I figured I could get my truck up to it or a wheel barrel to the pile pretty easy and start flinging. The question I did have though is I got a good hand full and looked, and smelled, really close. It smelled great, no fowl smell at all, but... it was still basically shavings. I figured you had a reason/remedy for this, maybe the whole reason for the screen, but I couldn't figure out how you were suppose to use this as a topdress.

Again, I am a newborn when it comes to composting. My partner doesn't want to even consider getting into it. I am currently ignoring him because his thought is that it will take too much time and work to get it down without the proper equipment. We shall see, I don't mind getting dirty and it is the KEY element from what I am told. (See I do learn after a while). He is very pro traditional though, mainly because it is so much easier, but he is also a silent partner who is looking at this from a business aspect and not the organic aspect like we all do. Maybe in a year or so when we are making money from both the front and rear he will understand but I don't have the time to sit down and try to explain this stuff to him. He's just along for the ride whether he likes it or not.

So... to make a long story short, now that you have read the long version... I went and looked at some horse farms today. I found a TON of shavings and very little manure. Is this common and there for why we need the screen? Will the shavings decompose or do we want to keep them out of it? I got the screen, well, the parts, and am now working on finding the drain pipe.

Thanks,

[treegal1]

the shavings are OM also, the thing of wood is that it is a N thief, it will steal N away from soil, if it already has stolen the N from the pile that's good, then when it dies slowly it releases the N back into the soil, so some wood is great, all wood, eh its OM, also the majority of soiled shavings are urine soaked, pure N (so to speak)that's a good base to start with, now you need old leaves and some grass clippings, stir and wait 4 weeks, turn or air every day and thats it.

explain to your partner that a pallet of .... 10-2-8 ??? costs 800$+ del. so thats 100 lbs N per 1000 lbs pallet

now horse gold, call it 3-1-2 plus OM and some other goods.

4 truck loads should only take 2 days to put together?? that's 3 hours to haul and screen per load=2000 lbs
4 loads at 60 pounds N per load is 240 lbs N with 4 loads

that's 240 lbs N at 8$ per pound that's 1920$$$$ US that can be made in 2 days. 2 days labor 400$? truck for 2 days 200$ parts 200$??? for a net savings of 1120 $$$

and then there's the hidden N . the stuff that that wood stole??? when does that come in???? I ain't that smart with my math after 2 sips or was it bottles of wine.... urp....happy composting