Help with aquatic application

[start2finish]

Ok, I have a acre or so pond and I have surface algae I need to get rid of. I am located in central NC. the weather for the last month was two weeks of 95-98 degrees. 2 weeks of 85 or so and now creeping into the 90's again. 1/2 inch of rain last month or so. Pond level is down 5 inches. No water has been pumped out of the pond. No chemicals applied to pond or surrounding areas.

I have about 1/2 coverage of a thick algae. It makes the fishing tough and I would like to reduce it. I am aware that I cannot kill too much of it or during this hot period the decompositon will deplete the oxygen and kill my fish, but I need to get this in check.

any suggestions?

[kbrashears]

Copper Sulfate, but you're going to have to do some homework.

You need water volume, alkalinity, methodology, etc...

Google it.

[bug-guy]

go to jdl and look at pond champs they have a 4 step program

[Ric]

Start

Assuming this is a closed pond with out flow.

1st you have to find the volume of your pond or ACRE FEET. That is surface area times the average depth. If your pond is one acre surface area and 6 foot at the deepest point, the AVERAGE Depth might only be 3 or 4 feet because of the sloping sides. You must make the guessimate from your knowledge of the pond bottom.

Once you have calculated the ACRE FEET of your pond, you can make correct application. 2 lb of copper sulfate per Acre Foot is standard label rate. Apply it by placing the copper sulfate in a sock of burlap bag with a rope attached to it. Drag the bag through the water so you distribute the copper sulfate evenly. Controlling the algae will not deplete the oxygen or kill fish. It is the decomposition of weeds that depletes oxygen.

[shaneb]

I would recommend www.lakelawnandpond.com. This is a full service website that has excellent pond maintenance information. You can also call their 1-800 number and speak with aquatic specialists.

[Ric]

I would recommend www.lakelawnandpond.com. This is a full service website that has excellent pond maintenance information. You can also call their 1-800 number and speak with aquatic specialists.

Shaneb

I am not saying your link is a bad company. But with a little research and the knowledge of what to use, products for Aquatic can be purchased less expensive at your regular supplier.

[teeca]

what ric said.. adding that what i do is mix the coppersulfate into a slurry in a 5gal bucket, put it in a back pack sprayer and top it off with water and spray using the strait nozzel (or whatever it's called) this will one help get the mats further in the pond and also churn the water up a little. if you have a lot of algae and its been that hot and without any rain to speak of, what i do is treat no more then 1/3 of the pond, then wait a week and do the other. you can treat up to 1/2 of the pond but your pusing the desolved oxy rate. what kind of fish do you have? if you have grass carp, koe(sp?), or trout to name a few, the copper sulfate will float them within hours (kill them). if you do have these fish you can use barly straw to control the algae. adding a colorant/shade will help to reduce the algae blooms and using a fert that cantains no 'P' will also help. also when you spray the algae it will turn brown/green and smell really bad. it's dead and will continue to rest atop of the water until you or mother nature rain sinks it or you pull it out or churn it up.

[start2finish]

thanks, the copper sulfate was forgotten. I estimate 1.5 acre feet of water. I remember from my aquatic licensing class years ago how to do this, but couldn't remember the copper sulfate. I only have large mouth bass and bream(panfish) in the pond. Maybe a few carp would help keep things under control. I always treat the water with a dye/colorant but this hasn't stopped the problem.

the pond is spring fed, but during the summer it falls below the standpipe and no water leaves the pond with the exception of heavy rain. It will take 3+ inches at one time to top it off. so I don't see this as a problem.

as for the application techniques, the sock idea was interesting, I have a skid mounted sprayer for my gator, I thought of using it to direct the application to the algae itself. I have hydrilla under water, but really it serves as good fish cover, just the surface algae is bothering me. any thoughts on mechanically removing the algae or will it return?

[teeca]

if you have a skid sprayer (with good pressure and volume) that would be about the best to use. it will knock the mats down the same time your killing the algae. another option is 'cutrine' you can buy it at tractor supply. it's alot better then regular copper sulfate because it is chelated and will stay in suspension longer. want a good kick in the wallet try killing the hydrilla with 'sonar AS' $650 a pint and works great and turns ALL the plants in the pond white and kills them. takes a month or so, but it does do the trick. you can also use 'reward' (diquat) but its only good for a top kill. the grass carp ar a bad idea, and if you have a water source that connects to your pond, then you probly wont get a permit from the DNR. atleast thats what they do here.

[start2finish]

what a about a permit from the DNR department of Natural resources?
I am not aware of anything regulating carp here. Or are you speaking of the treatments?

[Ric]

if you have a skid sprayer (with good pressure and volume) that would be about the best to use. it will knock the mats down the same time your killing the algae. another option is 'cutrine' you can buy it at tractor supply. it's alot better then regular copper sulfate because it is chelated and will stay in suspension longer. want a good kick in the wallet try killing the hydrilla with 'sonar AS' $650 a pint and works great and turns ALL the plants in the pond white and kills them. takes a month or so, but it does do the trick. you can also use 'reward' (diquat) but its only good for a top kill. the grass carp ar a bad idea, and if you have a water source that connects to your pond, then you probly wont get a permit from the DNR. atleast thats what they do here.

Teeca

Why are Grass Carp such a bad Idea??? I use them very successfully.

[teeca]

there life span and there eating habits are in question.. they are classafied as an 'exotic' and not too much has come good of any exotic. the grass carp don't do much the first 1-3 years, then they eat the crap out of everything from 4-6 years, then they quit eating again until they die in 20 years (do a google on grass carp, there is a guy selling them and his site even gives a feeding spectrim of the grass carp, and it's pretty consistant of what purdue and the DNR have posted). thats what they do in indiana the northen waters if you would. indiana has a permit prosses to go thru to obtaine the 'triploide' grass carp and if your pond/lake has any feed weather in or out or has the posssibility of access to a body yof flowing water, you can not get a permit to stock a pond with the fish, and the fish need to be purchased from a licensed fishery.

[teeca]

what a about a permit from the DNR department of Natural resources?
I am not aware of anything regulating carp here. Or are you speaking of the treatments?

not so much carp, but the 'triploid' (unable to reproduce) grass carp.. and they do not eat algae. just vegitation.

[Ric]

Teeca

Maybe because I am over a 1,000 miles south of you, our conditions are different. We have a year round growing season. The State of Florida has used Grass Carp for over 40 years that I know of with great success. My ponds have had Grass Carp for 5 years now and are doing well. Smartest thing I ever did.

[shaneb]

Ric,

I know what you are saying about lakelawnandpond, but it is a fantastic option for someone with little knowledge of aquatic weed control and yes, you will pay extra for the service and knowledge. If a professional with good knowledge of aquatic applications is interested in product, I would recommend standard chemical suppliers who deal in aquatic herbicides.

I do agree with Teeca on the difference between simple copper sulfate and a chelated copper like K-Tea or Cutrine. Again, there are cheap options and better options for any control product be it aquatic or terrestrial. And then, as mentioned you could use the cadillac, Sonar for complete and long lasting weed control.

Grass carp are an entirely different deal. Glad they seem to be working for you, but again, Teeca's points, in my opinion are spot on on this subject as well.

[teeca]

Teeca

Maybe because I am over a 1,000 miles south of you, our conditions are different. We have a year round growing season. The State of Florida has used Grass Carp for over 40 years that I know of with great success. My ponds have had Grass Carp for 5 years now and are doing well. Smartest thing I ever did.

most northern (again, most, not all) fish are meat eaters and not vegitation eaters. we have regular carp that just feed on the bottom crap, and the catfish that are meat scavangers. and then the fresh water game fish like bass and the like that eat meat. the itroduction of 'exotic' fish to public waters here tend to cause MAJOR eco problems, mybe it is because are growing season is so short compaired to your warmer climate, again i'm not an expert know it all, but i do read up on research when i get time, and ask the extension office questions about things that i see/hear/ and customers ask me about. we have a big problem with 'exotic' plants too, like eurasion water milfoil, looks like our native coon tail which is not that big of a problem, but euasian takes over FAST, forms a canopy in the water, and propagates very easy. the best part of living in the northern states is that we are able to take control of the euasian with a couple apps per year of 'reward' at a resonable cost to the property owner. i'm not disagreeing with you at all ric, i do respect what you are saying and your knowlage.

[teeca]

just thought of the perfect example of an exotic causing damage... the emerald ash borrer! sure our ash trees had borrers, but they were native to the area and, yes they would kill some trees now and again, but the EAB is a MONSTER that has killed 20million+ ash trees and is still going, and it's only been around for several years! the ash tress in china where they came from are not effected by the EAB nearly as much, because it's native there and there eco system has abapted to them.

oh, and the last post i guess i should have used 'preditors' insted of meat eaters.

[start2finish]

thanks guys, this thread has been a class act. to the point, great information. I am going to double check my pond measurements with a range finder and a little geometry. We re-did the thing a couple of years ago and memory should serve the depths.

one last thing, would you try and error on the lighter side on the acre-foot estimates or the heavier side. not way off, but it will be an estimate?

[teeca]

i have always just done 1 acre foot on a surface application, and went from there... chemicals are expensive (for the algae anyway) doesn't take ver much to kill it.

[Ric]

Teeca

I don't want to drag on about Exotic Grass Carp benefit or determent to the environment. But they are Sterile and controlled by state issued permits and limited as to where they may be released. They also have cut out the use of many chemicals applied directly in to the Water.

[teeca]

Teeca

I don't want to drag on about Exotic Grass Carp benefit or determent to the environment. But they are Sterile and controlled by state issued permits and limited as to where they may be released. They also have cut out the use of many chemicals applied directly in to the Water.

agree, everything does have its a place*trucewhiteflag*