UNIQUE is now our Competitor!!

[Eden Lights]

I really try to stay positive, but this just is just Typical UNIQUE. Years ago a employee of UNIQUE tried to gain my business and long story short he really was my COMPETITOR. Demos, Installs w/ general laborers, and of course no service or followup. Well I have really stayed away from them ever since, It's just in the last couple of months that I would even purchase their products again after really enjoying meeting and talking with Joey on this forum. I could state many more factual experiences, but I have said enough. Just see for yourself and wait for the Spin from Unique.

http://www.visualconceptsllc.com/residential.htm

Unique Landscape Lighting
Nate Mullen
Visual Concepts LLC

[dwightschrute]

Check out his site- he is listed as a contractor

http://www.iaall.com/southerncalifornia.htm

[Eden Lights]

Nate Mullen AKA "The Illuminator" with 1000's of installations.

This stuff is great.

[Mike M]

Eddie;

Is he cutting in to your profit share?

He personally is not in my market. If you came out with your own fixtures for building mounts, including some propriety concealment methods/materials, I would be on the phone with my distributor asking to get my hands on your stuff. Same with anyone else on here. Should Mike G. stop installs now that he is offering transformers?

I'd rather buy materials from the best installers with lots of experience, who prove ideas in the field, and continue to learn and grow their business, than from a suit who never swung a pick ax at some roots or had to prove great designs in a free market.

I only mention this from my beginner's perspective. Don't take for granted your own expertise. You may not need Unique, but I do, and I need everyone's help as much as they are willing to offer it.

I have little time to waste in developing my biz. With the support of everyone here, I am now getting referrals, and I have confidence and faith in my work.

If all I had was my local irrigation distributor, I would not be emerging and growing the way I'm starting too.

My fear is not Unique, mine is you! Stay in Nashville, please. :)

[INTEGRA Works Lighting]

Oh that is rich! Very Interesting.... and only one very short comment on the Visual Concepts web site that makes any mention of Unique, or Nate's ownership of Unique.

Hmmmmm..... I wonder what products they specifiy in their designs and use in their design/build company?

This would reek of conflict of interest to find out that his design specifications reference products made by Unique lighting now wouldn't it? Even worse if the Visual Concepts designs and specifications carry with them "no substitution" clauses.

Personally, I don't really care about this as it does not affect me or my business at all. It is a really big pie out there and there is a lot to go around. I could see how some people would find this annoying or problematic if they were in direct competition with Visual Concepts.

Questions:

1: How long has this company been around?
2: If it is new, then you would have to ask.... Why?
3: Is Visual Concepts a member of the AOLP?
4: Is Visual Concepts a member of the IALD? ( I sure hope not)

[INTEGRA Works Lighting]

The more I look at this the more I am thinking that Visual Concepts is a Design / Engineering entity only and not a installation or contracting company. It would be good to understand this for certain before a bunch of people go getting all worked up.

Who does the procurement and installation of the jobs that Visual Concepts designs and specifies? Do they use an open bid process for the jobs they Design/Specify or do they handle this in-house, or hand it off to a cherry picked installations contractor?

If they bid the installations, then how does one get on the bidder list?

I would love to see one of the design & specifications packages. It would be cool to see to what level they are documenting and specifying their jobs.

Gotta hand it to Nate... the man certainly does understand "Vertical Integration."

[Firefly Prof. Lighting]

Hey Nate,
Good for you. I can understand the itch to "get your hands dirty" again, so to speak. I personally don't see a problem with it. The day Unique starts hoarding all their fixtures for their own projects and stops selling them to me, will be the day that I stop buying from them. I can understand if creating with light is what you do, sitting behind a desk is not going to be very fulfilling. A guy needs that creative outlet.

[irrig8r]

I saw that website months ago and it doesn't bother me. Nate was a contractor before he was a lighting manufacturer. And face it, Nate has always been good at marketing.

So was Bill Locklin, R.I.P., who maintained his EC license to the end, and was involved in installing many high end projects while still a manufacturer. Bill called himself a "wire twister" with a sense of pride.

I think I even read somewhere that Mike Gambino, though mostly manufacturing transfomers these days, also designs and installs lighting. :)

So, what's the big deal?

[jnewton]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'm having trouble finding a big evil conspiracy here. Nate Mullen has never hidden the fact that he is a lvl contractor; in fact, his books are entirely based on his personal experiences in sales, design, installation and maintenance. From my perspective, it's good that a manufacturer is still willing to get his hands dirty. If he's still walking the walk, he's probably in touch with the industry and the guys who make a living in it. Doesn't seem like a conflict of interest to me.

[Eden Lights]

I just checked in for a second and I will post more on my view later, but when you see a big project or two go to a Manufacturer, Local Rep, and some general laborers you will understand. Unique is not the only gulity ones, its the way of the lust for $$$ for many now days.

[JoeyD]

Gentlemen..Nate wants to respond to this personally today so I will keep my reply short of all the details that he I'm sure will give you. He is in Boston and has been for about 3 weeks spending time with his daughter who is going through some rehabilitation with her leg.....So he cant jump online right this second to defend himself but I have made him aware of your "concerns" of him stealing your jobs and competing with you.

All I can say is that Eddie I wish you would have contacted me before blowing this way out of porportion..I feel you have a legitimate concern here but it is not what you think or have been told. I dont know if you stumbled upon this and manifested all of these pre concieved notions or if someone thought this would be "good for you to know". James' last post was just about dead on in my opinion of what NMVC really is.

In the mean time why dont you guys call Kenny Perez at NMVC and talk to him. I am not going to call him to give heads up or anything, call him and discuss with him what they do, what he specifies, how Nate is tied to the business, what Nate does for the buisness, and anything else you may be concerend about. Kenny is the principal of the company and is a very respected electrical engineer who probably specifies more line voltage than anything and is not afraid and does go way beyond Unique in his projects.

As for IAALL, dont you think all those guys listed in so cal would have a little issue with Nate if he was doing work? Look at all the guys in so cal and think about it for a second....Nate is a CONTACT! He puts NMVC in their so that he can forward work to Kenny IF there is a need for an electrical engineer or a large scale design to be involved. Nate uses his name for marketing and to draw people in, he is known obvuiously as a respected lighting guy. It is no secret that Nate started that academy for Unique's top users to join. Nate is a contact for his academy, should he not be? Who do you call if you want to join? He is allowed to own other companies is he not?

I know what it looks like or what it could be made to look like but reality is Nate uses his name and his talents in more ways then just Unique. I know it can be made to look bad or wierd because you cant find one other owner of a lighting manufacturer today who used to be a contractor like YOU, who understands design principals like YOU, and who is able to utilize his talents in more ways then just creating another pretty path light or better yet stealing someone elses.

Nate is more like YOU guys then you will ever know, but he is not like YOU because he is doing work in the field! He does not need the money so bad that he needs to jeapordize Unique relations by going out and installing jobs.....he did enough of that before creating Unique Lighting Systems in his garage 15 years ago! I ask you kindly to give the guy some credit already and give us a little more respect next time. This could have been taken care of in a 15minute phone call instead of a firestorm that it surely could turn into. I know if someone told me that Eddie was knocking off fixtures or something along those lines I sure as heck wouldnt put a post up here asking the world about it only to smear your name before actually gathering the facts...especially when you have total and complete access to Nate and I!

As for our Rep in TN Eddie, he was never a direct factory employee of Unique Lighting Systems, he was an independent rep for us. What he may or may not have done on his own time is unknown to us. I am sorry that he has caused you to lose money due to his direct competiton if he did indeed do what you claim, had we known this and had proof of this the relationship would have been severed instantly. Our reps are not to be out installing projects UNLESS they ar assisting a Unque Lighting Customer in consulting or training.

I appreciate all you guys do here online and in the industry, I only ask that you give Unique and its owners and employees a little more credit next time something doesnt look inline with what your used to seeing from other manufacturers.

Regards,

Joey D.

[INTEGRA Works Lighting]

Now THAT was well done Joey! You earned your $$$ today.

Ultimately, does any of this really matter? I think not.

Vertical Integration into any market is a proven way to diversify and suceed. Im in the process of doing so right now with: INTEGRA Works Custom Lighting, James Solecki Lighting Design, LEDlightsdirect.com and Needmore Lighting. Might as well get more of your fingers into the pie in novel and creative ways guys.

Have a great day.

[nate mullen]

I really try to stay positive, but this just is just Typical UNIQUE. Years ago a employee of UNIQUE tried to gain my business and long story short he really was my COMPETITOR. Demos, Installs w/ general laborers, and of course no service or followup. Well I have really stayed away from them ever since, It's just in the last couple of months that I would even purchase their products again after really enjoying meeting and talking with Joey on this forum. I could state many more factual experiences, but I have said enough. Just see for yourself and wait for the Spin from Unique.

http://www.visualconceptsllc.com/residential.htm

Unique Landscape Lighting
Nate Mullen
Visual Concepts LLC

Well first of all why only state 1 fact? State them all! I want to hear all of the factual experiences starting with the one you state here. But I would also like to have a little more detail. Not some wild and crazy statement. And please tell me and everybody else at Lawn site what is “Typical Unique”. Please give us all the details about Unique doing work in your area. For one I do not have any Unique employees in TN. The one rep that is in the state works for another company called Neil’s lighting. Your beef may be with Neil’s and not necessarily Unique.

I’m only responding to this to set you straight. So as not to confuse you, please never buy my product again. Its people like you that never check into the real facts that hurts our industry.

In regards to Nate Mullen Visual Concepts. If you had checked out the web site it is a consulting firm that 95% of the work that is done is High voltage for Municipalities and large developers. The business consists of electrical engineering and lighting design primarily focusing on site and roadway lighting. With 5 % LV lighting design. The company is going on its 4th year, the same year I started the IAALL. My intention then and today is the same. Is that one of these days is to start designing LV lighting in high end hotels and resorts and do it good. Matter of fact vary good……………Have you every been to a hotel resort any where that had good lighting????????
If I was to go back into contracting my new company would be called Resort Lighting International design and installation. But I’m not in contracting so what will happen with the design you ask? We will have a list of highly skilled certified contractors given to the owner. I am sorry to say you won’t be on that list.

As for the IAALL it’s an association of some of the best lighting designers /contractors In the US. Again, sorry to disappoint but I’m not a contractor. I wonder if the contractors in the IAALL think I’m a contractor too. I wonder if they would have a problem being part of this association that I’m the President of, if I was a competitor. ?

Thanks for the support of everybody else.

Nate Mullen AKA the Illuminator (retired contractor)

[Eden Lights]

Joey, thanks for your response. I do believe that we should always take our concerns to our brothers first, but this is not of a personal matter but a business matter and considering your involvement here I was looking for answers from you and others here that I value very much as a resource. My intent was to point out a practice that is getting all to prevalent. The role and bounds of manufacturers, dist, reps, and contractors seemed to getting very blurred as of late. Unique is not alone here, your just the only one that is advertising it out in the open. Your comments did not answer my concerns, but I did take in all that you said. I really like some things that I see coming from Unique so I guess that's why it was upsetting to me. The past is the past, but I am still cleaning up the mess from a rep and a dist in my area so its really hard to forget. I have I lost because of them, No but many clients got burned beyond belief and I really felt sorry for them. I have said before that Unique has been great with warranties for these clients, but they still got burned on labor for all the repairs.

Nate and Joey, your presence on this site is unbelievable considering the exposure that you risk from crazy contractors like myself. You guys can clear the air if you want by letting us know how your system works in the ways of Manuf, Rep, Dist, and contractor protocol. To make it easy I will propose a what scenario?

Tomorrow, a developer calls Unique from northern Florida and says he is developing a massive project that includes Residential, MDU's, and some Retail space with alot of hardscapes, softscapes, and etc. and it will all need lighting. How would Unique respond?

[INTEGRA Works Lighting]

Have you every been to a hotel resort any where that had good lighting????????

I stayed at the Wynn in Las Vegas about 4 months after it opened... I have to say, the lighting there was (is) pretty amazing.

But other then that, I would have to agree with Nate on this one.

[Chris J]

I would hope they would refer them to Me!!!! As I'm the only qualified lighting contractor in N. FL. Well, other than Randy anyway, but he's further south.

[Eden Lights]

Well first of all why only state 1 fact? State them all! I want to hear all of the factual experiences starting with the one you state here. But I would also like to have a little more detail. Not some wild and crazy statement. And please tell me and everybody else at Lawn site what is “Typical Unique”. Please give us all the details about Unique doing work in your area. For one I do not have any Unique employees in TN. The one rep that is in the state works for another company called Neil’s lighting. Your beef may be with Neil’s and not necessarily Unique.

All the systems that I have restored where demoed and installed by the dynamic duo in the 2004-2005 era. One of the clients is one of my favorite and I just got off the phone with him, he is going to try to produce the check that he wrote, but that's been four years ago so I don't expect him to come up with it. The name that he remembers was listed here during that era. http://www.uniquelighting.com/company_info/contact.htm
You guys win and I lose, no problem here. I just have always thought Unique could be the custom landscape lighting contractors partner, but it's presence in Nashville has proved otherwise for me. I feel hated after some of the remarks made and I want to make it known that I never intended for this to become personnel. I am done with this thread because nothing good is going to come from it and I have the answers to my questions and concerns.

[Pro-Scapes]

Yeah nates got the time to do installs. I can see this now between tending to his not so well daughter to running a multi million dollar lighting manufacture hes got plenty of time to be handeling installs. Crap in fact I think I seen him and joey putting well lights all over the place in my area.:laugh::laugh:

Eden your also bringing up 2004 ??? Just because someones name is on the Unique site now doesnt mean they didnt at one time do lighting installations.

I swear guys. These forums are going to be the end of our industry and its getting to where I dont even wanna log on anymore because you find more drama than info dramasite.com I guess this is now.

[David Gretzmier]

I guess I don't know the facts on this one but it seems pretty simple to me. Listening to Nate's response, he seems pretty blunt- Don't buy my product anymore. I think Eden's point is they don't want to compete with a manufacturer. I figure If I'm a manufacturer, and I sell to customers, If I had nothing to hide, I probably would go out of my way to be nice to my customers, not thumb my nose at them. Nate's attitude seems out of place as an industry representative, unless there is something to this.

If I smelled a manufacturer in my backyard doing installs, I probably would be hopping mad too, as would most other installers in theis forum. And truth be told, many of us have been wrong about a thing or two about our competition. . .and many of us have posted it. I for one want to sit back and see how this plays.

[nate mullen]

David, my blunt response is because this isn’t kindergarten anymore. Eden needs to state facts not unfounded statements. You don’t think with 750 points of distribution and Ten of Thousands of contractors installing my product it would be thirteen years later that I now got caught being a installer.

Your right it’s a conflict of interest. I walked away from my lighting company 13 years ago. l chouse that side of the fence which I’m still on. How much time does it take to run a lighting construction company ????????????????? I wish I had that much more time.

Anyway, back to my blunt response, It like the old saying Have You Stop Beating Your Wife? Eden for what ever reason started this post with no facts. Just threw stuff on the wall. I learned a long time ago not everybody is your customer, the best jobs I ever did were the ones I walk away from.

David I don’t have time for unfounded statements …….Its is stupid………and a waste of time.

In my opinion kissing Eden’s ass is a cover up.

So give me facts I’ll stay here forever defending my position. Unique Lighting Systems DOES NOT DO JOBS OR DO THERE Employees . Eden here you chance prove me wrong………your challenge which as we all know from your previous post is you got stuff, air it out now. I don’t have anything to hide so bring it on.

Nate

[Pro-Scapes]

I agree with Nates approach. Why would he want to do business with someone who attacks him without facts and without warning ? As much as I admire Edens work and his ability to do an outstanding job. This is nothing personal about him as we have swapped many great ideas in the past (thanks Eden!)

I just strongly feel this wasnt the place for such a questioning and I would almost think Nate has a case against someone for this. I am also pretty certain if Nate found one of his reps doing installs for profit they would be history. Its no secret Unique does alot of on site hands on training with contractors so I wouldnt be surprised to see a unique truck at a clients home but like Nate said. Bring some facts. I bet if you dig deep enough and far enough back you could find someone who wrote a Check to Bill Locklin or Nate or Dave Beausolie (spelling) for a lighting installation. Its not a secret they used to be contractors so bringing up something that happened years ago is rather void I would think.

I recently had dinner with Nate in Vegas and I gotta tell ya, He was a stand up to the point type of guy who really cares about his customers large and small.

Joey on the other hand... well who knows about him lol just kidding Joey!!!!:laugh::laugh:

[JoeyD]

Tomorrow, a developer calls Unique from northern Florida and says he is developing a massive project that includes Residential, MDU's, and some Retail space with alot of hardscapes, softscapes, and etc. and it will all need lighting. How would Unique respond?


I would first ask if they have a lighting design done and if so is it LV or line..I do not care about all the landscape and stuff, not my buisness.....we would assist and help with the lighting side....There are a bunch of other details I would cover such as time frame, project phase they are in, etc.....

(Now if this is a full scale huge project like you stated and they need infrastructure and electrical engineering then of course I will probably get Kenny Perez involved. But even then sometimes he may not be able to take it on so we have to look for another big lighting designer/electrical engineer...but then we would still assist in making sure we still get the right installer...)

No matter if the design is done or not, if he says we want the lighting to be LV, then I will ask who is in charge of the lighting design and install?

They will either respond with we have a sub who will do it, or we will do it, in which case I will then take steps in helping him achieve the right design, specification, and infrastructure either through our SDSP program or by having our rep come oniste....In some cases if they are complete newbies our rep will do a full on training install with them in a section of the project depending on size.

If he responds with, "we actually need an installer" then I will look to who in the area is bets suited to do the job.......In this case it would be Chris J......LOL...In most cases it tends to be a guy on the IAALL because they are usually the guys who are the most familiar with Unique and tend to be our top guys in their respective areas.

( I do try and give everyone a fair shake, I will refer jobs to guys based usually off of location most of the time but some jobs are just better suited for our top guys that I know will not try and switch the job out to other lines after we spend time with them and generate the lead for them!)

We then would do whatever we could in our power to participate along with the contractor or whoever in any onsite meetings, we will help with creating anything custom we may need to do for the job etc......

Some times we help with getting them lined up with distribution (we do not sell direct)...if they are a sesoned Unique guy then they are usually already dialed in with distribution.


This is the saem process essentially i take with every lead call, whether it be a big developer or a homeowner. Bottom line is I dont say hmmm....got a budget? $100,000? Great, I will be on the first flight out!

Hope this helps...

[irrig8r]

Doing a quick search on the CSLB website turned up a "Nate" Mullen in Escondido with a long history of electrical contracting, but I'm not sure if it's the same Nate.

The most recent is Illumination Electrical Contractors, which expired in 1997. Nate was that your company?

http://www2.cslb.ca.gov/General-Information/interactive-tools/check-a-license/Personnel+License+List.asp?SeqNumber=0204695&PersName=MULLEN%2C+NATHANIEL+EUGENE

[JoeyD]

. My intent was to point out a practice that is getting all to prevalent. The role and bounds of manufacturers, dist, reps, and contractors seemed to getting very blurred as of late. Unique is not alone here, your just the only one that is advertising it out in the open. Your comments did not answer my concerns, but I did take in all that you said.


What do you mean by we are the only one that is advertising out in the open? And what else to we need to say to make sure you fully understand that we do not compete with you? What were your concerns? I thought your concern was that we are competing and doing install work, taking money out of your pocket? I think we have been pretty clear and detailed with addressing this.

Everyone should know that we are one of the few companies that truly puts the contractor first. We do things and try to do things to make your lives easier in the field. I do my best to particiapte here to help not just our customers but everyone when I can. I started to take a lot of heat for being too heavy handed here in defending Unqiue...I have tried my best to not be that way anymore, but it is stuff like this that has been happening for years against us that has made me this way. No matter how hard we try to be PC and try to help and be cordial, someone always wants to kick us in the balls and make false statements and treat them as fact. Then when we defend ourselves they want to take their ball and leave the playground.

My point is, if you are going to make such statements, encourage a thread of slander, then you should be able to see it through and either one make sure we give you the answers you are looking for or two own up to making a mistake and admitting the insinuation that Unique is doing jobs was wrong. Again you made this a public thing therfore a public apology or at least a little bit of admiting that maybe your insinuation was really geared towards a distributor and rep and not Unqiue Lighting and it's employees.

I still have respect for you Eddie either way. You do a good job and are a good guy. I just feel like you flew off the handle a bit when creating this thread and therfore ammends are in order.

[JoeyD]

Doing a quick search on the CSLB website turned up a "Nate" Mullen in Escondido with a long history of electrical contracting, but I'm not sure if it's the same Nate.

The most recent is Illumination Electrical Contractors, which expired in 1997. Nate was that your company?

http://www2.cslb.ca.gov/General-Information/interactive-tools/check-a-license/Personnel+License+List.asp?SeqNumber=0204695&PersName=MULLEN%2C+NATHANIEL+EUGENE

Those were Nates companies...it expired in 97 but he stopped contracting in 93 I think? I was with Unique in 97 and I know for a FACT he wasnt installing! LOL! Because he was working my butt off on the road!! I remember that year very well....some good stories from 97!:laugh::drinkup:

[Eden Lights]

This is the saem process essentially i take with every lead call, whether it be a big developer or a homeowner. Bottom line is I dont say hmmm....got a budget? $100,000? Great, I will be on the first flight out!
Hope this helps...

This really should clear it up for everyone and set things straight in a more civil manner. When I stated Unique is a competitor, is was not from the wire twister aspect it was from the aspect of crossing the comfortable line of the Manufacturer to Design-Build-Maintenance Contractor relationship. We don't do demos nor designs for free so I feel that neither should my Manufacturer, Rep, or Distributor should be doing these things for free either. If you read Nate's and Joey's responses, not only are these practices "Typical Unique", they have programs, companies, websites that do it very well. From a business aspect this allows them alot of control of a project: Design, Product choices, and etc. This business model is not one I care to support, while it could be lucrative for the contractor that drinks the kool-aid, it's just not for me. If I would have wanted to bury someone's else wire and just make alot of money I would have bought a couple of OLP franchises 15 years ago when I started all this. Everything I said was factual information and if anyone wants to discuss this further please feel free to call me, since text never gets written, read, or understood in original context. I will be around all weekend except from 8-1pm on Sunday. Thanks

[Eden Lights]

In all fairness I want to say that these practices that I don't condone are not just a problem with Unique, it's a problem that I see and hear about more and more and thus was the reason for this thread. Last year another Large Manufacturer flew his crew to Nashville to design a 100K system for a local home and decided that with their support the Landscape contractor could handle the install. Long story short we got a call from the Homeowner for help, we worked with the homeowner and the local manufacturer's rep for two days to trouble shoot problems and rework major design flaws. The next week The national sales manager flew to Nashville to take us to lunch and apologize in person, he was a class act that knew they crossed the bounds in a moment of greed. For that reason this is in the past and I will not discuss who it was. This does give you some more background to a growing problem.

[JoeyD]

Thanks for making Unique the topic here Eddie! I appreciate you giving me the respect to hash this out in private....glad you are protecting the company that took a $100K job from you yet you are pissed at us because we teach guys how to light and help them with designs and demos? Still confused here as is everyone else who is emailing and PMing me as to what we did to deserve the topic title? ...why didnt you make a post that says ALL MANUFACTURERS ARE NOW YOUR COMPETTION!!

Thanks Eddie....I guess I wasnt classy enough to have an opportunity in private to discuss this before you dragged our name and our name only into this when your beef is with every manufacturer and every distributor......


FOR THE RECORD.....I am glad Eddie did not release the name of said company....I am glad that they were able to have the opportunity to make good in private.

THIS THREAD IS DEAD!

[nate mullen]

This really should clear it up for everyone and set things straight in a more civil manner. When I stated Unique is a competitor, is was not from the wire twister aspect it was from the aspect of crossing the comfortable line of the Manufacturer to Design-Build-Maintenance Contractor relationship. We don't do demos nor designs for free so I feel that neither should my Manufacturer, Rep, or Distributor should be doing these things for free either. If you read Nate's and Joey's responses, not only are these practices "Typical Unique", they have programs, companies, websites that do it very well. From a business aspect this allows them alot of control of a project: Design, Product choices, and etc. This business model is not one I care to support, while it could be lucrative for the contractor that drinks the kool-aid, it's just not for me. If I would have wanted to bury someone's else wire and just make alot of money I would have bought a couple of OLP franchises 15 years ago when I started all this. Everything I said was factual information and if anyone wants to discuss this further please feel free to call me, since text never gets written, read, or understood in original context. I will be around all weekend except from 8-1pm on Sunday. Thanks
Eden I would check the kool-aid your drinking because you don't make any sense but if you want to call me my cell is 760-580-4980 I would love to here the factual info you love to talk about not do not share.

[TXNSLighting]

what a crappy thread to start

[Pro-Scapes]

Is anyone else as lost as I am about these claims and such ?

I cant even start to think why I wasted so much time trying to understand the jumping around. I see nothing wrong with a manufactures crew coming to help another contractor. The other manu was trying to help the clients LC and not install it themselves ?

Im sure If I was about to buy 50k in unique for a huge project I could get joey and nate to help me engineer and design it if needed.

Ph well its Friday and raining. Out with the washwater... Close the thread already Joey

[Lawnman90]

I talked to the "rep" you are reffering to today and he informed me of this post. I don't know all the details of what you are taking about but he has been nothing but a help to me. He has walked me throught the pricing and installing many projects and has been a big selling point for using the Unique products. Many time people get on these forums and say things that are not true. I hope this thread goes away adn anyone who uses the Unique products knows thier quality and how they stand behind thier products. As for the person you are talking about, he is the sole resaon I really got into lighting and using Unique fixtures.

[Gr1ffin]

Not referring to this specific situation because I don't know it, but in general, its a big World out there and there is plenty of business to get without worrying about the other guy. Build your own business, product and service to be the best and you will do well. You can't protect your business but you can build your business. The successful businesses I've seen (in all industries) are so busy focusing on how to constantly grow and do it better--the guys who are complaining about others or protecting usually stop growing and start shrinking.