prices killing me!

[ProTouch Groundscapes]

how have you guys been handling the price spikes in fert this season? we only do granular apps and i can not touch the prices of companies like Tru Green and Scotts. a bag of fert sometimes costs me as much if not more than the $35 that trugreen charges per application.

What do you guys charge for labor for application? We just find out how many bags we need for the sq. footage, then add say 20-30 in labor for the application depending on the difficulty of the yard. Some of my seasonal clients, 5 step applications: $300 whereas Tru green would charge less than 200! how are you guys doing it? i swear they dilute their stuff...

[FdLLawnMan]

TruGreen usually only applies straight urea with about 2% iron and then spot sprays as needed. Whrn they apply it they only put down 1/4 to 1/2 lb of nitrogen per application. Any more and you would burn the lawn. So, during 5 applications they have applied 2.5 lbs of a non-slow release fertilizer for the season. I tell people my 4-step is the same or better than their 5-step. With my 4-step the customer gets 3 lbs of nitrogen, most of it slow release.

[indyturf]

5 apps!! I thought TG did at least 7!! lol but your 4 apps are still much better at any rate!!

[ted putnam]

Scott's Lawncare was in my local Lesco/JDL branch buying fert the other day. If I'd had a digital camera with me, I'd have followed him to his first stop. It would have been hilarious to post a pic of him dragging a bag of Lesco fert out of his Scott's van to fill up his spreader. Someone said EPA/DOA pulled the plug on some of their fert(not registered properly or something like that).

[KACYDS]

Scott's Lawncare was in my local Lesco/JDL branch buying fert the other day.

I worked for Lesco for many years before I started my own business. We use to deal with two Scott's Lawncare Franchises and they had to use Lesco products and not Scott's. I was told that Scott's believe that Lesco's Fert. was a superior product vs. Scott's.

[bug-guy]

i was told scotts fert is too expensive for commercial use it's a homeowner product also some scotts are franchises not all but some

[ProTouch Groundscapes]

so do you guys just try and do your best to convince your customers that even though your more expensive that its worth going with you? is that the only way to combat this issue?

i know labor rates are different for different markets, but for sake of comparison, what is the avg charge to spread one bag of granular that say covers 10k sq. ft.? depending on the yard we charge between 20-35 per app for labor and we have never needed to use more than 2 bags.

[whoopassonthebluegrass]

TruGreen usually only applies straight urea with about 2% iron and then spot sprays as needed. Whrn they apply it they only put down 1/4 to 1/2 lb of nitrogen per application. Any more and you would burn the lawn. So, during 5 applications they have applied 2.5 lbs of a non-slow release fertilizer for the season.

While I don't contest TGCL's practices, I will disagree with your concept of burning a lawn. I spray liquid all season long here in the desert. Even in the heat of summer I have applied as much as the standard 1#/M and have NEVER burned...

5 apps!! I thought TG did at least 7!!

It's a marketing gimmick. 5 ferts + 2 weeds. If I counted each chemical as a separate "application", my program is a 14 application program. Maybe if I did that, but just told people it's only $25 per app...

[turf hokie]

My per app prices are always more expensive if you look at them individually. But I cant tell you the number of people that come back the next year b/c of poor results or the fact that their 7 step $39 program cost them $600 at the end of the year.

[humble1]

so do you guys just try and do your best to convince your customers that even though your more expensive that its worth going with you? is that the only way to combat this issue?

i know labor rates are different for different markets, but for sake of comparison, what is the avg charge to spread one bag of granular that say covers 10k sq. ft.? depending on the yard we charge between 20-35 per app for labor and we have never needed to use more than 2 bags.

You can sell yourself simply by saying, I do the apps, if there is a concern I will address it, at the end of the day when the big guys summer help is rushing to finish so they can go out with their friends, I will be finishing up the detail work just like its my own lawn.

[whoopassonthebluegrass]

My per app prices are always more expensive if you look at them individually. But I cant tell you the number of people that come back the next year b/c of poor results or the fact that their 7 step $39 program cost them $600 at the end of the year.

Yeah. My sales pitch always includes an "apples to oranges" when-comparing-packages speech.

[FdLLawnMan]

While I don't contest TGCL's practices, I will disagree with your concept of burning a lawn. I spray liquid all season long here in the desert. Even in the heat of summer I have applied as much as the standard 1#/M and have NEVER burned...


whoopass

Is that straight urea you are putting down or a type of slow release that you are using. How much water do you apply per 1000 Sq. Ft. when fertilizing?

[whoopassonthebluegrass]

whoopass

Is that straight urea you are putting down or a type of slow release that you are using. How much water do you apply per 1000 Sq. Ft. when fertilizing?

Straight urea, no slow release. 2g/M. This year I'm going 1.33g/M - though I will only be applying .75#/M, and focusing heavily on K and other nutrients...

[cod8825]

Look most of us who have done this a while will never be able to compete with Scotts and TruBrown on price but we also don't have to either. I competed against Scotts for a job in KC they did 10 steps and overseed for 1400 in KC for a 10K yard the guy was like you got to be kidding. I won that on shere price. Down the street I competed against another lawn $60 for 7K to Scotts $45 for 7K and won but I won because of sales.

I told the guy in a very straight forward manner. "We are a small operation I am the only technician in our business all of our mowing accounts get mowed by the same crew every week with the same guys. I will be the one treating your yard. I will be onsite every five weeks to treat and inspect your yard. If you have issues you will talk to me you might call the office and they forward the call but I will talk to you I will fix the issue". I didn't need to explain the program after that. He told me that was all he needed. If you don't have the name recognition that the large companies in your town have you have to be different in some way.

[FdLLawnMan]

Straight urea, no slow release. 2g/M. This year I'm going 1.33g/M - though I will only be applying .75#/M, and focusing heavily on K and other nutrients...

Wow, I am amazed you have not burned a lawn at that rate. I applied a mix of 0.25 lbs urea with 0.75 lbs of UMAXX per 1000 Sq. Ft. and used 2.12 gals to do it and I had some tip burn on lawns on the days the the temps got to 80 and it didn't rain for about 4 days. Your way must work but I would think applying a lb of urea at one application would cause the grass to grow like nuts for a while.

[whoopassonthebluegrass]

Wow, I am amazed you have not burned a lawn at that rate. I applied a mix of 0.25 lbs urea with 0.75 lbs of UMAXX per 1000 Sq. Ft. and used 2.12 gals to do it and I had some tip burn on lawns on the days the the temps got to 80 and it didn't rain for about 4 days.

I'll get the tips, but I don't count that - b/c they get mowed off and the grass is fine. As for rain, out here everybody waters like crazy, and so my applications (when it's hot) never even make it 48 hours before watering. AND b/c they're watered frequently, the lawns don't suck the chem's in quite so greedily...



Your way must work but I would think applying a lb of urea at one application would cause the grass to grow like nuts for a while.

Part of the reason I've changed gears. I'm focusing more on true health, than just wowing the customer with a jungle. I did the straight Urea and Fe for a season in the past and it bit me in the butt over the long term. Those lawns suffered drought stress early on the following spring...

I mow many of my customers, as well, so I hate to shoot myself in the foot by over applying. My N goals now are to give it enough to grow-out all wear patterns/matting from use. I don't feel that anything above and beyond that is doing anything more than wasting my/their money and time... So now lots of K, lots of Fe, and just a bit of Mn, MG, Zinc...

[Frank Fescue]

scotts and chemlawn have a goal. and that is to make sure you find another line of work. if you're complaining about prices then i'd suggest you give up, they've already won and you'll be doing something else 2 years down the road anyway

[whoopassonthebluegrass]

scotts and chemlawn have a goal. and that is to make sure you find another line of work. if you're complaining about prices then i'd suggest you give up, they've already won and you'll be doing something else 2 years down the road anyway

You know, prices keep going up on the chems, but I redid the math the other day on my costs per M - and I was thrilled at how low the chemical-only costs were. All this hype we put into it had blown it out of proportion in my head... My profit margin, even with the other increased expenditures is still as high or higher than it has ever been with the modest increases we put on this year...

[rcreech]

Maybe it is just me...but I feel that we little guys have a BIG advantage over the big boys during these times.

I think their overhead is going to kill them as inputs go up. They are not going to have good employees unless they pay them good.

If they pay them good, and with the cost of inputs going up (fert and fuel) I think we will not only be able to kill them. I am already higher then them and as thier prices go up, so will mine. Most of my lawns are within 5-10 miles of my home...and I know a guy that worked for them and he would sometimes have to drive 45 minutes to his first stop! That costs $$$$.

Companies like TG are already in the hole, so I think they will have to start charging much more.

I sell on quality and not price, but it is good to have the big guys out there to remind the customer how much they need us little guys who care and do a great job on their lawn!

My business has grown this year by leaps and bounds and I should send a Thank You to TG for it!

[greendoctor]

I'll get the tips, but I don't count that - b/c they get mowed off and the grass is fine. As for rain, out here everybody waters like crazy, and so my applications (when it's hot) never even make it 48 hours before watering. AND b/c they're watered frequently, the lawns don't suck the chem's in quite so greedily...





Part of the reason I've changed gears. I'm focusing more on true health, than just wowing the customer with a jungle. I did the straight Urea and Fe for a season in the past and it bit me in the butt over the long term. Those lawns suffered drought stress early on the following spring...

I mow many of my customers, as well, so I hate to shoot myself in the foot by over applying. My N goals now are to give it enough to grow-out all wear patterns/matting from use. I don't feel that anything above and beyond that is doing anything more than wasting my/their money and time... So now lots of K, lots of Fe, and just a bit of Mn, MG, Zinc...

I do not mow any of the lawns that I treat, but I do know the people mowing it, so I am the same way. If I want green, it is not done by loading the lawn with N. Even the hacks around here can get green by throwing 10 lb ammonium sulfate. I do it with soluble micronutrients and potassium nitrate. My goal since getting into this business is a healthy and attractive lawn. I use up to 1 lb of urea per M as well in combination with K and micros, however almost all of my lawns are on automatic irrigation and I personally water in each application. It is not as though I am ever spraying on a dry lawn that never sees water until the next time it rains, which can be months here.

Even with the price of urea and potassium nitrate headed for the moon, I am not suffering. My business is not based on quantity and speed, it is based on quality and results. The difference between myself and the "landscapers" with several crews trying to do it all from fertilizing to mowing is results. They throw granules, I apply a liquid that is often custom blended according to a soil test. I broadcast spray for weeds using callibrated power equipment, they have illiterate labourers spotting and burning holes in lawns with hand sprayers. This is one of the many reasons why I can ask for $1200-1500 per year per M. I am not filthy rich though. I do not do the same volume of business you do on the continent, and the chemicals I bring into every property do cost something. However, I make a comfortable living not working very hard.

[whoopassonthebluegrass]

I am not filthy rich though. I do not do the same volume of business you do on the continent, and the chemicals I bring into every property do cost something. However, I make a comfortable living not working very hard.

Are you kidding me? You have A DREAM JOB!!!!!! You live in Hawaii (I visited this winter), you don't have to work hard, and you make a good living! What more could you want? You're not, by any chance, looking for a partner, are you? Haha.

Living the dream, my friend, living the dream!

[greendoctor]

Are you kidding me? You have A DREAM JOB!!!!!! You live in Hawaii (I visited this winter), you don't have to work hard, and you make a good living! What more could you want? You're not, by any chance, looking for a partner, are you? Haha.

Living the dream, my friend, living the dream!

I count my blessing every day. This was a long time coming though. I used to work for a "landscaper". Finally got fed up with watching and being caught in the middle of them screwing customers. Not to mention being really underpaid for a certified applicator. I have been certified for the last 14 years and I am only 35 years old. There is nice beach weather every month of the year and now that I am self employed, I have the time and energy to treat myself regularly. As someone else's employee, I would work monday to friday 7-5, but would be too run down to do anything. It was not the job, its me. I live with some medical problems that really affects my energy level and makes me heat intolerant. I am not amused by some of the posts about pushing a spreader in 90 heat. Doing something like that will kill me. I work from 7-11 then 4-6 from now till December. If it is not warm and humid, I can work from 7-7 no problem.

[whoopassonthebluegrass]

I have been certified for the last 14 years and I am only 35 years old. There is nice beach weather every month of the year and now that I am self employed, I have the time and energy to treat myself regularly.

Sounds sweet to me. I was on Oahu for about 10 days right around Christmas. MAN it was sweet. Body boarded till I couldn't hardly move, got stuffed at a luau, checked out the PCC (very fun), stayed on a bungalo on the beach for a couple nights, hiked in the forests, snorkeled at Hanauma... just spectacular! I'd probably never get ANYTHING done (work-wise) if I lived there. :laugh:

[greendoctor]

Sounds sweet to me. I was on Oahu for about 10 days right around Christmas. MAN it was sweet. Body boarded till I couldn't hardly move, got stuffed at a luau, checked out the PCC (very fun), stayed on a bungalo on the beach for a couple nights, hiked in the forests, snorkeled at Hanauma... just spectacular! I'd probably never get ANYTHING done (work-wise) if I lived there. :laugh:

It is hella expensive to live here, so that ought to be motivation to get some work done. If it is too hot for me to be working, I am probably snorkeling at one of the beaches. I always remind myself that I am no good to anyone if I am dead. One of my clients half jokingly told me I am not allowed to die or otherwise get out of the business until she is dead and her surviving children have sold the house.

[whoopassonthebluegrass]

One of my clients half jokingly told me I am not allowed to die or otherwise get out of the business until she is dead and her surviving children have sold the house.

Now THAT'S job security! :weightlifter:

[greendoctor]

This is only a widow with 2000 sq ft of lawn, so I am not making a killing on this one. But I give it the same high quality service a 1 acre estate does. Never know who your client knows.

[ATouchofGrass]

But I give it the same high quality service a 1 acre estate does. Never know who your client knows.

Thats what everyone should be like! Im here getting raped buy these illegals and under charging, butchering every job they get and the people still hire them which is funny! About a month ago i was doing an application, and next door there was an illegal prolly way under pricing them, and the lawn is BURNT out and the lawn i did is green as can be! Im just waiting for the people to come to me and take over there lawn, but im sure they wont like my priceings :nono:

[ICT Bill]

how have you guys been handling the price spikes in fert this season? we only do granular apps and i can not touch the prices of companies like Tru Green and Scotts. a bag of fert sometimes costs me as much if not more than the $35 that trugreen charges per application.

Move to another product that is cost effective, think out of the box rather than buying from the box store

[greendoctor]

Thats what everyone should be like! Im here getting raped buy these illegals and under charging, butchering every job they get and the people still hire them which is funny! About a month ago i was doing an application, and next door there was an illegal prolly way under pricing them, and the lawn is BURNT out and the lawn i did is green as can be! Im just waiting for the people to come to me and take over there lawn, but im sure they wont like my priceings :nono:

My competition are the do it all "landscapers" and the illegal lawn service providers who do not even pay taxes. I know where either one of them has been doing the lawn. The "landscaper" leaves the lawn with green and light patches because they were broadcasting granules. The illegals and the "landscapers" both burn holes in the lawn by spot spraying weeds. I do not use granules and I do not spot spray. Of course both of these types of operations cost less than me, but my work is the best advertisment and when people realize how good a lawn can look, money becomes no object.

[PHS]

Thats what everyone should be like! Im here getting raped buy these illegals and under charging, butchering every job they get and the people still hire them which is funny

If you can hang in there it will come full circle after awhile. At some point, being able to speak English sets you apart from the competition and allows you to charge more.

[Bcb27101]

Contact Prosource One if you work in Florida. We have a Fertilizer plant in Fort Myers and can save you some money on Fertilizer. We also costom blend.

www.prosourceone.com
Chad Burkett
772-260-8660

[naughty62]

One of biggest misconception is all urea solution are the same.I am no expert but a melted tank mix of 46-0-0 left over a hot week end will about knock you off the truck monday morning.tried it ounce .Most ag . distributors have a liquid turf grass fert that is stablized enough for storage ,through manufacture or additive.There so many variable possibilities for combo apps ,but most people can not set up tanks in thier garage .There are so many variables ; soil type,climate,app timing,volume of business,maintenance level of clients,grass type ,equipment.A lot of lco use urea solutions as a main- stay ,but are smart enough to use slow release /dry products when needed .But change comes hard and adding equipment is expensive .