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View Full Version : How close to a pool do you get.


TPnTX
07-01-2008, 09:07 AM
A lot of common should apply to where you place lights. Of course you don't place them where they can be a danger.

Consider this. The far side of this pool has moss rocks as coping. Beyond the pool edge is a landscape bed. By design I am placing lights well away from the pool. However Uplighting that edge looks awsome as the illuminated plants reflect into the pool.

As a test we placed a light directly below the lirope you can see in the pic. How can I safely accomplish this. It very cool and I wish I had a good pic of it showing the effect.

I think as a rule it's too close to the pool even though it "Most Likely" would be fine.

TPnTX
07-01-2008, 09:14 AM
could it be as simple as using a water tight fixture. If I do that I still need a TF rated for ponds and water.

Terradek
07-01-2008, 10:50 AM
Within ten feet of a swimming pool or spa the Trans must be "Pool and Spa" rated. It is not enough for it to be "UL 1838 Submersible" rated. Pool and Spa is intended to protect "Human water" and "Submersible rated" is intended for non-human water like water features and ponds. There is a difference so be sure to ask for "Pool and Spa" rated Trans. when you are this close to a body of water where people are likely to be. Also important are the connectors you use, they must also be rated for this application. 3M-DBY, or Nightfall Ace Connectors are good choices in this situation. Also check local ordinances for other requirements and limitations. Good Luck...

Gerry De La Vega
AOLP, CLVLT #0404

Lite4
07-01-2008, 12:42 PM
No problem. Pool and spa rated tranny. Fixture of your choice. I would agree with the Ace connector, but I use them on everything anyway. Inline fusing of that run couldn't hurt either.

JoeyD
07-01-2008, 01:48 PM
FYI
http://www.uniquelighting.com/product_pages/Aquatic_Transformer.htm

Chris J
07-01-2008, 04:16 PM
Gerry,
What about that stipulation that you can't be able to grab the fixture to pull yourself out of the water. Are you saying that as long as the trans is p/s rated it doesn't matter what the fixture is?

JoeyD
07-01-2008, 05:02 PM
Here is the rule!

NO LIGHT WITHIN 5 FT of the pool no matter if its LV or Line.

If the light is further than 5ft but still within 10ft than the fixture must have a ground.

Being that the LV system we use is a 2 wire system there is no ground so our only form of grounding will be at the transformer. In which case the transformer can be no closer than 10ft to that pool or spa as well. The ony transformers that have the grounding that MAY get ok'd for use are those with a copper faraday shield that goes between the primary and secondary windes. That is what we have that gives the ETL Listing 1563 Pool and Spa.

Now I say MAY get ok'd because essentially article 680 of the NEC is written with 120v in mind and not LV. So it really depends on how anal the inspector is and how he interpets it. I have had some that understand this and see that the contractor has taken all precautionary measures and I have had some as of late that said they did not care and they made the guys move the lights.

Bottom line is, if you are working on a project where lights will be around a pool and or spa, you should take precaution and use a Pool and Spa rated unit, insatll it on a GFCI and use a weather proof cover on the outlet. If you are going through inspection I would consult with the inspector to see what it is he is going to require to sign off on the job.

Terradek
07-01-2008, 05:33 PM
Chris,
Personally, I would not put any fixture within 10' of a pool or spa...but local regs. may not have a restriction on this. The other thing to make sure of is that the outlet is gfi protected, regardless of the trans. used.

Gerry Delavega
AOLP, CLVLT #0404

Pro-Scapes
07-01-2008, 05:49 PM
you should be doing alot of this regardless of the system and where it is going. GFCI's and in use covers need to be installed.

Now we had a pool deck that was 8 ft across. We placed pathlights in the beds around the pool. No one will be grabbing them to get out of the water. We did use a pool and spa rated transformer and it is of course on a GFI and has magnetic breakers and we even installed inline fusing just to be even safer.

Are thoes mature trees in your photo ? Downlighting oppurtunities ?

TPnTX
07-02-2008, 12:53 AM
yeah they are tall trees downlighting won't do.

sprinkler guy
07-02-2008, 01:28 AM
Pool and Spa rated trans, GFCI outlet w/ watertight cover, inline fusing, 100% waterproof connector (DBY, ACE, FX Splicegel) - all neccessary when doing an install, especially around a pool or water feature, but Joey D references what some of us have dealt with in the past. Depending on the inspector, even meeting all electrical codes, I've still had to move lights. Now, I just don't put them in until after the final inspection. If you don't have an inspection to deal with, then the point is mute.

irrig8r
07-02-2008, 01:30 AM
How about fiber optics?

irrig8r
07-02-2008, 01:31 AM
... then the point is mute.

Voices can be mute, re: points, use "moot".

irrig8r
07-02-2008, 01:32 AM
repeat. delete.

sprinkler guy
07-02-2008, 01:34 AM
Voices can be mute, points are moot.

Spell checking doesn't catch them all. Thanks Gregg.

JoeyD
07-02-2008, 10:06 AM
How about fiber optics?

Fiber optics carry no current they just carry the light from another source.......so as long as the illuminator is 10ft away then you can run fibers all day in and around the water.