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View Full Version : First big challenge-nervous


maxwilbryan
07-02-2008, 01:14 PM
The deal is this: I just completed my first install (4 valves). I have just bid my 2nd job and secured it. It is 325ftx250. Flat/no trees. cost of materials $3,000 (pgp rotors 96, valves 12). How does $12,400 sound? I'll rent a riding trencher (hopefully finishing with that in a day-feasable?). Thinking of assembling valves/heads-flexpipe in advance). I got one dude who helped me on the small install and thats it for his experience. Pump installed, taping into existng, clock has room for these stations. I'm being advised to shoot mainline down middle of yard and branch zones from there.
Could you guys please give me some feedback on #1 if i priced this ok #2 advise on being a efficiant as possible #3 anything

You have no idea how much i'd appreciate some love. Thanks-Max

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-02-2008, 01:32 PM
The deal is this: I just completed my first install (4 valves). I have just bid my 2nd job and secured it. It is 325ftx250. Flat/no trees. cost of materials $3,000 (pgp rotors 96, valves 12). How does $12,400 sound? I'll rent a riding trencher (hopefully finishing with that in a day-feasable?). Thinking of assembling valves/heads-flexpipe in advance). I got one dude who helped me on the small install and thats it for his experience. Pump installed, taping into existng, clock has room for these stations. I'm being advised to shoot mainline down middle of yard and branch zones from there.
Could you guys please give me some feedback on #1 if i priced this ok #2 advise on being a efficiant as possible #3 anything

You have no idea how much i'd appreciate some love. Thanks-Max

Not much to go on but price looks reasonable 130/rotor. Take some pics. Give us a GPS of the site. Remember a 12 zone is just three 4 zone systems. Break it down to small bites. Don't over trench unless you have lots of bodies to keep busy.

Dripit good
07-02-2008, 04:12 PM
What size pump are using? Better hope you're getting a minimum 24gpm from it if you plan on running 8 rotors per zone. What size valves and mainline are you using?

$3,000.00 seems a tad low for what you plan on using. Also $12,400.00 is high.................at least for this area. Maybe you don't have much competition to deal with where you are at. Good luck to you.

(Can't help you out on the love part............sorry)

Waterit
07-02-2008, 06:56 PM
$130 a rotor is excellent money for down here. Cost of materials seems a little low, would think closer to $4K.

Without pics, can't advise mainline layout, we usually stick to one side or the other, seldom go down middle (that's usually where that big-@ss stump was left:laugh:).

As Dripit advised, don't overtrench - cut only what can be piped AND backfilled in a day. We usually average about 1500 ft. of pipe installed per day, 3-man crew (one rides, one cleans, one pipes, then rider and cleaner backfill while piper does manifold/wiring/valve boxes).

Fast isn't always best, especially for someone new.

And as Fimco advised, look at it as (3) 4-zone systems.

maxwilbryan
07-02-2008, 07:05 PM
1 1/2" mline to 3/4" laterals. Existing system is running 7-8 rotors so im guessin it'll be ok. 2 1/2 gpm nozzles. as for price i came in 4 grand below other bidder.
Fimco- So you are saying what now? 3 four zone systems. I know this is elementry but im trying to picture this. Mainline down middle with 3valves per box im assuming.
I'd send a pic but i swear to you its a flat rectangle-cut and dry.

maxwilbryan
07-02-2008, 07:23 PM
Thanks Waterit. I'll role like that.

BrandonV
07-02-2008, 08:38 PM
just curious if it's wide open why don't you step up to a bigger rotor than a pgp?

Mdirrigation
07-02-2008, 09:28 PM
First you are way low , especially when the next bidder was 4 grand higher. second you are basically doing a football field with the sidelines , use a larger head , not pgp something for a sports field . The added cost of the head will be ofset due to using a lot less heads. Dont use 1 in valves , go to at least 1 1/2 if not a 2 in valve , let the water flow and raise the laterals to 1 pvc in minimum. Dont they plow there , save time and labor . backfilling and tamping trenches is time consuming. This is your second job , just remember it has to work to get paid . I believe you may have bid too low .

Waterit
07-02-2008, 10:05 PM
use a larger head , not pgp something for a sports field . The added cost of the head will be ofset due to using a lot less heads. Dont use 1 in valves , go to at least 1 1/2 if not a 2 in valve , let the water flow and raise the laterals to 1 pvc in minimum.

That also occurred to me, of course AFTER my original post.:hammerhead:

Something like a Falcon would be perfect IMO if you have the pressure.

Bigred350
07-02-2008, 11:21 PM
You need to rethink your design. I would use bigger heads, valves and pipe.

AI Inc
07-03-2008, 06:19 AM
I wouldnt , Keep it simple .

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-03-2008, 07:21 AM
1 1/2" mline to 3/4" laterals. Existing system is running 7-8 rotors so im guessin it'll be ok. 2 1/2 gpm nozzles. as for price i came in 4 grand below other bidder.
Fimco- So you are saying what now? 3 four zone systems. I know this is elementry but im trying to picture this. Mainline down middle with 3valves per box im assuming.
I'd send a pic but i swear to you its a flat rectangle-cut and dry.

I was trying to suggest that since you've installed a 4 station system that this is the same thing just three times. You know what it took to do the 4 station so divide the job up and approach it that way. If you look at the whole job at once for a newbie that can be overwhelming. Also good planning and having the right material on hand and avoiding those stupid supply house trips for minor items goes a long way on adding to job profitability.

Dripit good
07-03-2008, 07:55 AM
1 1/2" mline to 3/4" laterals. Existing system is running 7-8 rotors so im guessin it'll be ok. 2 1/2 gpm nozzles. as for price i came in 4 grand below other bidder. Fimco- So you are saying what now? 3 four zone systems. I know this is elementry but im trying to picture this. Mainline down middle with 3valves per box im assuming.
I'd send a pic but i swear to you its a flat rectangle-cut and dry.

It's always painful when you know how much $$$ you left on the table, but $4,000.00 lower than the next bid proposed for that..........................what a great market you're in!

Forget about 3/4" laterals, fittings and clamps for the install. Keep 1" laterals standard on your installs.

hoskm01
07-03-2008, 08:04 AM
Forget about 3/4" laterals, fittings and clamps for the install. Keep 1" laterals standard on your installs.



Well said. Reduce your different number of fittings.

AI Inc
07-03-2008, 12:08 PM
Well said. Reduce your different number of fittings.

same here , 3 trucks . Im not buying different sizes of the same fittings.

maxwilbryan
07-03-2008, 12:09 PM
The "tech" for ewing (my supplier suggested this layout with pgp heads). Makes since to go bigger. duh. now i'm rattled.
I can always abandon ship. I've got a week or 2.No contract-just a goahead. They are in no hurry. That 'way too low' statement was scarey. Dude is rich-so i think previous bidder was high. But....--the 'tech' was the one who bid my cost of materials. He was telling me to bid around $9,500. Blind leading the freakin blind. i may just take a knee and drive an icecream truck. thanks fellas.

Wet_Boots
07-03-2008, 12:25 PM
Heed the comparison to a quantity of smaller systems, if it keeps the work 'manageable'. Unless you have lots more pressure, you don't have to leave the comfort zone of familiar PGP heads. And even a little extra pressure could allow larger PGP nozzles, and wider spacing.

You would have an easier time with your own plow or trencher, when you have a small crew, given that you don't want to open more trenches than you can fill in a day.

Dripit good
07-03-2008, 12:42 PM
The "tech" for ewing (my supplier suggested this layout with pgp heads). Makes since to go bigger. duh. now i'm rattled.
I can always abandon ship. I've got a week or 2.No contract-just a goahead. They are in no hurry. That 'way too low' statement was scarey. Dude is rich-so i think previous bidder was high. But....--the 'tech' was the one who bid my cost of materials. He was telling me to bid around $9,500. Blind leading the freakin blind. i may just take a knee and drive an icecream truck. thanks fellas.

:: slap, slap ::

Pick yourself up, whats wrong with you!! :hammerhead:

You have a great opportunity here, and you will make $$$ on this job. Stay with your original layout..........if not a little more conservative on your zoning. You will be fine.

maxwilbryan
07-03-2008, 12:48 PM
Thank you sir! Can i have another!?

Dripit good
07-03-2008, 12:51 PM
That's all the love you're getting from me.

maxwilbryan
07-03-2008, 01:05 PM
Truck is in shop + long weekend. I'm in agreat position to feel this thing out before i start it. I really appreciate the feedback.

Wet_Boots
07-03-2008, 01:20 PM
I know my first multi-acre system was a bit of a leap of faith, but it's all do-able.

Waterit
07-03-2008, 05:23 PM
I can always abandon ship. I've got a week or 2. No contract-just a goahead. i may just take a knee and drive an icecream truck. thanks fellas.

We can free up the week of July 14-18 and come sub it from you for, say, $11K. You can watch us put it in and learn a little, pocket $1500, and we get a week away from the heat and humidity! Seriously.

Kiril
07-03-2008, 11:37 PM
I'm with Tom and MD. Use a real rotor like the I90.

Ahhhh, hell, just use netafim.

maxwilbryan
07-06-2008, 01:22 PM
So instead of spacing like 9 heads across x 10 rowes I would reduce number of heads that have more distance (instead of using 7-8 a station i would go say 5-6) ? I'll send a pic to a couple of you guys if you dont mind takin a peek. I'm totally with you on using larger rotors.Perplexed why irrigation rep didnt advise it- This area is basically a football field(a little wider).

My email is bryanlandscaping@gmail.com

Wet_Boots
07-06-2008, 01:46 PM
What pressures do you have? Without high pressure, you stick with common rotors.

Mdirrigation
07-06-2008, 08:49 PM
Perplexed why irrigation rep didnt advise it- This area is basically a football field(a little wider).

The guys that work at the distributors sell product they dont install it. They sell what they know . 1 distributor in our area one of the counter guys use to install windows, the other drove a truck .

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-06-2008, 09:26 PM
Perplexed why irrigation rep didnt advise it- This area is basically a football field(a little wider).

The guys that work at the distributors sell product they dont install it. They sell what they know . 1 distributor in our area one of the counter guys use to install windows, the other drove a truck .

You need to be the expert not them. The odds of me taking advice from the supply side are about the same as the odds of the Rangers winning a World Series.

Waterit
07-06-2008, 11:25 PM
You need to be the expert not them. The odds of me taking advice from the supply side are about the same as the odds of the Rangers winning a World Series.

Had one recently where both my area Hunter rep and my Ewing guy told me an ICC had plenty of punch to pull in both a valve AND the mag starter for a 7-1/2HP submersible. Mag starter was 440VAC 3-phase with 24-volt coil. On paper, this should work, they say. So I bid job accordingly.

Except it didn't. Finish hanging (2) ICC's and call owner over for show-and-tell. Hit manual start, coil pulls in, and immediately releases.

Call Hunter guy, he goes, "Oh yeah, I've encountered this before. Let me send you one of our PRS setups." Look in book, no such thing. "Oh yeah, it's new, you won't find it in book". Turns out to be a 110V to 24VAC transformer with an ice cube relay that goes between MV/PS terminal and mag starter, delivers fresh 24V to mag starter.

Hunter guy comped me on the PSR, usual cost about $100. Did nothing for black eye in front of customer.

Last time EVER I'll rely on counter/rep advice. BTW, my Ewing guy has been in it almost as long as I have (27 yrs.), and Hunter guy has been the rep for over 15.

Kiril
07-07-2008, 01:21 AM
You need to be the expert not them. The odds of me taking advice from the supply side are about the same as the odds of the Rangers winning a World Series.

Ditto. Never listen to counter monkeys unless you know for sure they have the field experience to be giving advice, which in most cases they do not.

txgrassguy
07-07-2008, 05:24 PM
Counter monkey????
Why call Wet Boots that:laugh:
Seriously though, my take on vendors and their recommendations is if they know so much they would be in the field earning the $$$$ - not sucking up a/c all summer long.

Mike Leary
07-07-2008, 05:46 PM
Counter monkey???? .

Unless we took the Texas irrigation course, most of us depended on our
distributors for help to learn the trade. 'Course, that was when the distributors
were "to the trade only" and knew their stuff.

txgrassguy
07-07-2008, 06:29 PM
Mike, I have been around commercial irrigation for nineteen years now.
From Florida throughout the mid west to several Asian countries and Australia.
With the exception of one distributor in Australia, I haven't found one distributor I'd trust to change a a foot valve in an old Toro series 600 rotor let alone one to recommend specific material or to design a layout.