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Juan if by land
07-04-2008, 01:57 PM
Hey guys, I managed to get myself into a tight situation on a job involving the construction of a new home on a very high end site,construction has been going on for 9 months with no end in sight.

This entire job (meaning the construction and all trades) is just very unorganized,with changes being made on an hourly basis (for all trades).I couldn't begin to explain,never seen anything like it.

I am very friendly with the owner and have his complete trust.He's been getting hammered from day one because of the way the job is run(the project manager).I give it to him straight,I'm the only guy on site dealing direct with him.I give him some advice on things when he asks,because of my experience in construction,building ,carpentry and landscape contracting(horticulture degree).

Anyways,I was brought in to clear undesirable and thorny shrubbery in a wooded area at the front of the propery,we also selectively cleared some trees,to leave the better ones. It is about a 60'x120' area.The clearing reduced his privacy quite a bit,so we designed a woodland garden and began planting to get the major elements in before the end of the Spring planting season.

An irrigation system is in order,however the scheme of the entire project are unclear.It's about a 500'x120' property.The scheme of the woodland garden will change with time as plants mature and smaller perennials and ferns are added.Some shrubs will mature at about 12' but are now 2' tall.


He would like me to handle the irrigation,which is fine,but I would like to put together a plan that will handle the addition of plants and maturation without having to dig a whole lot in the future.The soil drains like a sieve,so it is going to need a decent amount of irrigation,with good coverage and future flexibility and of course be unobtrusive.

As for the rest of the place,nothing can really be done at this point,final grade isn't done,tennis court has issues,drywell issues,driveway issues.And finally,I don't know where my water source is...I suggest to do the tap near the meter(located within the woodland garden) where I can count on about 13gpm.But others on site would rather tap where it come into the house Crawl space(???) then run it back 200' back the other direction,then feed a water fountain,then feed some zones(???)

I'll eventually get the water source the way it needs to be,just help me with some ideas on watering plants and shrubs in this 6000sf area.Surprisingly,the digging is fairly easy in the wooded area.

Waterit
07-04-2008, 06:28 PM
1. Can you get a meter JUST for irrigation? That solves your supply problem.
2. If not, I wouldn't tap in inside, I'd "T" the line outside womewhere so it'll be easy to expand for future system.
3. For today and tomorrow in wooded area: MP ROTATORS!

BrandonV
07-04-2008, 06:45 PM
2 wire, would also be a good idea

WalkGood
07-04-2008, 07:52 PM
I suggest to do the tap near the meter(located within the woodland garden) where I can count on about 13gpm.

Where is this site located that you only get 13 gpm on a new meter tap?

If there is big money on this site then get the largest water main/meter that you can get. You should think about a separate irrigation meter (or two), along with booster pumps. With a lot of irrigation needs on an estate, people do not want to see their sprinklers running all day long. They want them done very early.

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-04-2008, 07:59 PM
Where is this site located that you only get 13 gpm on a new meter tap?

If there is big money on this site then get the largest water main/meter that you can get. You should think about a separate irrigation meter (or two), along with booster pumps. With a lot of irrigation needs on an estate, people do not want to see their sprinklers running all day long. They want them done very early.

I would pitch a well...tough upfront cost but in the long run the system properly installed will pay for itself..

Waterit
07-04-2008, 09:44 PM
I would pitch a well...tough upfront cost but in the long run the system properly installed will pay for itself..

:::CSR showing off some of that knowledge he's picked up from here!!:weightlifter::::

WalkGood
07-05-2008, 01:04 AM
I would pitch a well...tough upfront cost but in the long run the system properly installed will pay for itself..


Depending on where the site is located he may not be able to have a well.

Kiril
07-05-2008, 01:08 AM
Design/Plant regionally appropriate landscapes and you won't need irrigation.

If that is not an option, and you want the least hassles with the landscape as it matures, netafim is the clear winner.

Juan if by land
07-05-2008, 02:26 AM
Checked my notes and have about 17gpm available with a 1" copper supply and a 3/4" meter,the existing service.

The place will not have an overly large lawn area when all is said and done,maybe 7K sq.ft. at most.Not much left after the dwelling,tennis court,swimming pool,driveway,walkways,decks,etc.

Maybe another 1K sq.ft. in shrub/flower beds.The woodland area,because of the obvious conditions should not need more than 2x weekly watering.

A seperate irrigation service or well would be a tough sell,espsecially with the resistance I am having with others on site,with anything plumbing related.

So...MP rotators on risers for the shrubs?

Drip system looks good on paper,never installed one,should I be looking at one here?

Wet_Boots
07-05-2008, 06:35 AM
Drip on sandy soil? More work than on clay, since the water won't spread horizontally.

Kiril
07-05-2008, 10:58 AM
Drip on sandy soil? More work than on clay, since the water won't spread horizontally.

Nothing some OM won't solve.

Wet_Boots
07-05-2008, 11:24 AM
Nothing some OM won't solve.O-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:naADz2EVz8QxvM:http://www.gelisy.com/meditation.jpg

Juan if by land
07-05-2008, 11:58 AM
O-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:naADz2EVz8QxvM:http://www.gelisy.com/meditation.jpg

That saved me the question.

BTW,entire area has 4" or more of shredded mulch on top of the soil and will probably be maintained as low maintenance area with leaves and such allowed to remain and further mulch the area.

If I consider Netafim,at what depth am I going to bury it,what kind of longevity can be expected,and what problems can I expect/avoid?

How do you winterize a Netafim system?

Kiril
07-05-2008, 12:20 PM
OM = Organic Matter -> Compost

Kiril
07-05-2008, 12:32 PM
BTW,entire area has 4" or more of shredded mulch on top of the soil and will probably be maintained as low maintenance area with leaves and such allowed to remain and further mulch the area.

Perfect and as it should be.

If I consider Netafim,at what depth am I going to bury it,what kind of longevity can be expected,and what problems can I expect/avoid?

Burial depth, if any at all, would depend on your soil composition. Got a soil test? Problems would include any/all problems you would faced with any buried PE system + emitter clogging (debris and/or roots) which is pretty much taken care of by using a TechFilter (limited lifetime warranty against root intrusion when using the filter).

Longevity also similar to a PE system.

Juan if by land
07-05-2008, 01:22 PM
What is techfilter?

How long should the tubing itself last,similar to poly?

How much do you have to mess with emitters,maintenanace wise?

Do I want to bury everything under the mulch 2" or so?

Kiril
07-05-2008, 02:28 PM
What is techfilter?

http://www.netafim.com/Irrigation_Products/Landscape_Drip_Products/Integral_Dripperlines/&mod=search&searchWords=techfilter&st_id_search=91&time=0&sub=1

How long should the tubing itself last,similar to poly?

Yes

How much do you have to mess with emitters,maintenanace wise?

Changing/cleaning the filter, and possibly periodic flushing depending on your setup.

Do I want to bury everything under the mulch 2" or so?

Yes, bury under the mulch unless you expect to be driving heavy equipment over it, in which case you would do a sub-surface install.

http://www.netafim-usa-landscape.com/Landscape/p-dripperline/p-dripperline-Techline-CV-17mm.php

AI Inc
07-07-2008, 06:59 AM
a 6000 sq ft bed in sandy soil, I would hit it with rotors running shorter times twice a day.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-07-2008, 07:02 AM
a 6000 sq ft bed in sandy soil, I would hit it with rotors running shorter times twice a day.

What if they have shrubs? Rotors and shrubs don't mix well.

AI Inc
07-07-2008, 07:10 AM
Depends on placement. 12" rotors will do fine if placed properly.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-07-2008, 07:46 AM
I'd do the beds with netafim but use micro sprays. No drip.

Kiril
07-07-2008, 10:32 AM
Depends on placement. 12" rotors will do fine if placed properly.

What about water stains on trees or low canopies?

Wet_Boots
07-07-2008, 11:22 AM
What about water stains on trees or low canopies?Heaven forfend a tree should get wet.

Mike Leary
07-07-2008, 04:00 PM
Heaven forfend a tree should get wet.

It never rains in California.:rolleyes:

Juan if by land
07-07-2008, 09:55 PM
Just to explain the conditions a little better...it is a well shaded woodland situation.Existing brush and weak trees were cleared,existing organic matter was graded out and about 4" of shredded mulch was added to entire area.
Soil is basically a sand box,but where new shrubs and small trees were planted,the planting holes were dug HUGE and replaced with topsoil and organic matter,probably removed 20 yards of sand just from the planting holes.

In other words,area will not need excessive amount of water,especially once plants are established.More plants,especially ferns will be added over time. Nothing too lush and water-hungry will ever be planted because of the large deer population...Hosta would disappear overnite.

The drip-system,just under the mulch,makes a lot of sense,I just don't want to baby-sit the thing,ever.

Can I run this stuff off a 1" valve or should I figure 3/4".I mean,can I run enough emitters to justify a 1" line?

Is Netafim the best way to go,as far as drip equipment? I go for tried and true.

Mike Leary
07-07-2008, 10:06 PM
aby-sit the .

Means nothing.

Kiril
07-08-2008, 12:45 AM
Heaven forfend a tree should get wet.

Leave it to Boots to be a wise azz.

BTW, if you have never seen a water stain on a tree from sprinklers you haven't been in the biz very long.

Kiril
07-08-2008, 12:48 AM
Is Netafim the best way to go,as far as drip equipment? I go for tried and true.

Netafim is top dog.

Design it like any other irrigation system. Use the resources provided by Netafim to do your design.

AI Inc
07-08-2008, 06:44 AM
What about water stains on trees or low canopies?

Thats where placement comes in.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-08-2008, 08:02 AM
Netafim is top dog.

Design it like any other irrigation system. Use the resources provided by Netafim to do your design.

I'd still go microspray off the netafim first. I've seen poor results from trying to establish new plants with drip. Start off with microspray to cover the entire ball area with water and after establishment convert the micros to drippers.

Kiril
07-08-2008, 09:39 AM
I'd still go microspray off the netafim first. I've seen poor results from trying to establish new plants with drip. Start off with microspray to cover the entire ball area with water and after establishment convert the micros to drippers.

In some cases yes, you will have problems, but those problems will be the same with micro-sprinklers and even conventional sprays. I generally have no problems establishing new plantings on a properly designed Netafim system with the exception of improperly planted plants or plants with sandy root balls (in my clay soils). I have a good test going right now. Sub-surface drip with all new plantings in 100+ degree heat.

I do however like using micro-sprinklers to water orchards.

Kiril
07-08-2008, 09:41 AM
Thats where placement comes in.

This one goes entirely over my head, especially in your neck of the woods.

Juan if by land
07-08-2008, 10:30 AM
What should I figure on paying for 1000' of Techline CV?
Should I use their fittings for my connections to Poly?

Juan if by land
07-08-2008, 11:55 AM
Another question about winterizing this setup.
I found the Netafim illustration showing a strict grid,with a "Supply Header" with the neatafim laterals coming off of it and all the laterals terminating in a "Exhaust header" that contained a drain.Seemed a good setup for irrigating lawn,that needs a strict grid.

Should I try to terminate my shrub laterals into a "Header" so I can open the header and blow it out,come fall?

Kiril
07-08-2008, 12:26 PM
What should I figure on paying for 1000' of Techline CV?
Should I use their fittings for my connections to Poly?

Depends on where and what type you get. Cost me about $300/1000 of 0.26GPH @ 18" spacing.

Use their fittings.

Kiril
07-08-2008, 12:43 PM
Another question about winterizing this setup.
I found the Netafim illustration showing a strict grid,with a "Supply Header" with the neatafim laterals coming off of it and all the laterals terminating in a "Exhaust header" that contained a drain.Seemed a good setup for irrigating lawn,that needs a strict grid.

Should I try to terminate my shrub laterals into a "Header" so I can open the header and blow it out,come fall?

http://www.netafim-usa-landscape.com/Landscape/technical-cad-specs.php

Juan if by land
07-08-2008, 09:27 PM
http://www.netafim-usa-landscape.com/Landscape/technical-cad-specs.php


That's what I need...thanks.

Juan if by land
07-10-2008, 05:09 PM
How/where are you placing the flush valve.

Are you using clamps on the Netafim?

Mike Leary
07-10-2008, 05:19 PM
How/where are you placing the flush valve.

Are you using clamps on the Netafim?

Place the flush valve in a "Texas Jumbo" (6" v.b.) with a gravel sump.

Netafim is pressure-compensating, so no clamps are needed below 50psi.
Any higher, throw a Netafim prv in after the valve.

Juan if by land
07-10-2008, 06:08 PM
This is close to what applies to my situation:
http://http://www.netafim-usa-landscape.com/Landscape/Design-Details/pdf/103lite.pdf

I should try to keep the flush valve in roughly the middle of the Netafim lateral? When I tee off of the Netafim for the flush valve,I guess I can run it as far as I need to make it accessable?

Are you using Netafim blank tubing when necessary?

Mike Leary
07-10-2008, 06:14 PM
I should try to keep the flush valve in roughly the middle of the Netafim lateral? When I tee off of the Netafim for the flush valve,I guess I can run it as far as I need to make it accessable?

Are you using Netafim blank tubing when necessary?

The flush valve should be at the lowest point in the system.
Netafim blank should be used wherever water is not needed,
if you're doing loops, remember to use two, as 12" centers don't
give much application. I had heard they make a 6", check with your
supplier.

AI Inc
07-10-2008, 07:45 PM
6"/ 12" and 18" we double wrap roties and triplewrap trees.

Mike Leary
07-10-2008, 08:40 PM
6"/ 12" and 18" we double wrap roties and triplewrap trees.

Got my vote. (I hear the spelling Nazi is in your area)

Juan if by land
07-10-2008, 11:45 PM
The flush valve should be at the lowest point in the system.


How critical is that? On this project the area is nearly flat...should I create a low point for the valve?

Mike Leary
07-10-2008, 11:59 PM
How critical is that? On this project the area is nearly flat...should I create a low point for the valve?

Not critical as long as the manifolds are interconnected. Some installers
use multiple flush ports depending on the water quality.