my most recent job!!!

[Junior M]

well here are some pics of the most recent job me and my dad did..... it was thirteen feet from the bottom of the track and to the top of the pool wall

got to go run an electric service with the father will post the rest of the after pics later!!

[bobcat_ron]

That's one deep small pool!

[KrayzKajun]

Gotta love playing in the dirt!!

[Junior M]

That's one deep small pool!
actually ron it was one of the shallower pools we have ever backfilled..... only bout five or six foot deep but it had a really wide deep end, two maindrains in the bottom if that gives you any idea how big it is... but most of the pools are six or eight feet deep....

this one pool had three foot shallow ends on both ends with a little tiny deep end in the middle......

[kreft]

Cool pics!

[Junior M]

ok well since i am still waiting on "beavis" what everyone calls my dad......

i am goin to upload the finish pics of this job......... oooo yeah forgot to add we not only backfilled this pool but we dug the retaining wall out for the guy... and thats what theses pics show with the finish grade ready for concrete.......

there are a few more to post but have got to get off for now cuz we are getting one of those bad afternoon storms.......

1) what i did with a walk behind mtl..
2)is the finish product
3)if you look in this pic you can see the bent pipe that is water line my dad hit... wasnt anybodies fault cuz he told us we would hit it and it was no big deal becuz it was suppose to be done already and if it wasnt done when we got there then we could go ahead and dig.....
4)finish product
5)finish product

[Bleed Green]

So are you guys just going to knock that other side down more and finish grade everything now? It looks like there is going to be a lot of dirt to truck off.

[Junior M]

we tried to talk the guy into letting us do that but he insisted on renting a walk behind mtl and using and he also said his neighbors also wanted some of the dirt..

and if you notice in the last pic we dug the wall footer all the way out so the wall would just dissappear where i had done all the purty work with the walk behind mtl

[bobcat_ron]

What kind of reatining wall materials is the home owner wanting?

[Junior M]

we didnt build the wall but he buried 6x6 posts and some how put up tongue and groove 1x6 up... i dont know i havent seen it since we rolled out.... but my dad went back the other day to turn the pool on and thats what he said it was... i dont know but i think the wall will be dyed red from all the red clay cuz he didnt put any drainage.. ooo and i found out he built the wall right up against what we dug....

do it yourselfers!! hahahahahaha

[Junior M]

we didnt build the wall but he buried 6x6 posts and some how put up tongue and groove 1x6 up... i dont know i havent seen it since we rolled out.... but my dad went back the other day to turn the pool on and thats what he said it was... i dont know but i think the wall will be dyed red from all the red clay cuz he didnt put any drainage.. ooo and i found out he built the wall right up against what we dug....

do it yourselfers!! hahahahahaha
well i went back to this job today.........

wow.......found out while i was out that this guy didnt pay the contractor we are working for becuz the concrete cracked......

well while we were lookin over the job a nieghbor had some how gotten our card or saw us in a magazine but he asked us what it would cost to build a 50 foot long wall that is bout four feet tall and backfill it for him... well he didnt like the price one bit.....
people dont realize how much a block retaining wall costs, in fact they dont realize how much any retaining wall costs... but i thought he was goin to fall over when we gave him a rough estimate at 18 dollars a block.... and we are actually cheaper than most people. alot of the people around here charge any where from 23 to 26 dollars a stone....

[Junior M]

well here are some pics from the job we did today... we did it all today!! so far it is our fastest backfill that was ready for concrete when we left.. but i think it was because of the brand (BOBCAT) and the huge bucket that the BOBCAT could handle because of all the power:clapping::laugh::dancing:

oh yeah there are a bunch of random pics i took, while waiting on my dad to come out, and i am goin to post them...:waving:

1)our truck from the sidewalk in front of my house
2)up close pic of our beast 335!!
3)the three foot bucket (what a freakn bucket.. its almost to much bucket for it)
4) a new tooth
5) an old tooth... see the difference?

[bobcat_ron]

It's not the capacity of the bucket that shows how much power you have, it's the width, put a 44" on it and then see.

[Even Cut Lawn Care]

Dude, your grass is pretty dang tall. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Junior M]

more pics... read the back of my dad's shirt in the last pic!

[Junior M]

well with a full bucket you can make it feel like a bobcat zts mini....


yeah i know... i dont have no time anymore between homework, high school my extracirricular activities and my dad has been workin late we just dont have enough time and the days are getting shorter... i suggested just letting it grow and then bale it and sell it but they vetoed that for some reason...

[CAT powered]

Hey, JLM. Looks like that Bobcat is going to need a few more straps to be legal.

You need to have a strap on the 4 corners. When I move my excavator I can hook a binder directly from the steel track to the edge of the lowbed. Then you need a strap over the blade and one more strap over the bucket. At least that's what you'd need for it to be legal up here in the north.

Everyone knows that the blade on a D8 isn't going to run anywhere, but those DOT boys still want you to chain it.

Just trying to save you guys a little hassle over an "unsecured load" violation.

[Junior M]

Hey, JLM. Looks like that Bobcat is going to need a few more straps to be legal.

You need to have a strap on the 4 corners. When I move my excavator I can hook a binder directly from the steel track to the edge of the lowbed. Then you need a strap over the blade and one more strap over the bucket. At least that's what you'd need for it to be legal up here in the north.

Everyone knows that the blade on a D8 isn't going to run anywhere, but those DOT boys still want you to chain it.

Just trying to save you guys a little hassle over an "unsecured load" violation.
not here.. you only need four points of contact on the trailer and five points of contact on the machine if the boom isnt a locking boom... and the binders have to be on the passenger side so if they pop off they wont go into traffic.. but the way we strap it down it isnt possible and we have been told by the dot it is ok....

[Scag48]

I suggest not using straps, I don't even think they're legal. 3/8" grade 70 chain, invest in some and a set of good binders of your choice.

[Junior M]

more..............

[NateV]

I suggest not using straps, I don't even think they're legal. 3/8" grade 70 chain, invest in some and a set of good binders of your choice.

Took the words out of my mouth. I would get one to put over the bucket too even if its just for looks.

[Junior M]

more............................... oooooo yeah look its me in the last one! shaved head and all!! hahaha

[Junior M]

why chains? I hate chains! they get rusty and there heavy and just i dont know i dont like them you cant strap down a piece of equipment with chains without getting dirty.. my dad and I have never had a piece of equipment fall off.. i can remember one strap breaking in the whole time i have been around this business (was always hanging around the shop when i was five) i can remember only one breaking and my dad has been doin this 20+ years and has always used straps and he has never lost a piece of equipment...

[Junior M]

more......................

[RockSet N' Grade]

Chains and straps? Check out the law. As far as binding on four corners, your are partially correct. The way you have your rig tied is illegal...period. In short, you need to secure the four corners of the piece of equipment and each hydraulically driven implement ( ie: your blade and your boom/stick/bucket). If you want to get a little more technical, you also need to secure your load from moving forward, which requires a separate tie down to the rear of the machine. All is good and fine until that one day when shiat happens and whatever some lax dot official may have said does not mean a hill of beans when you are found negligent........There are pretty consistant federal laws throughout the states with regard to securing a load......I have read them and you should too. It is just what it is but when push comes to shove, ignorance of the law is no excuse............go to www.1st-Chainsupply.com and read the law, they also sell chain.

[CAT powered]

Hmm.

Let's think about this. Nylon or steel. Which is stronger? Let's look at this. Grade 70 3/8" chain with a binder is rated for about 5500 pounds. I don't know about your straps, but mine are only rated for 3,333 pounds each.

And what's this crap about gettin dirty? Do you have lily white hands that can't get grease or rust on them? If you're that afraid of gettin dirty I've got a tip. Wear gloves.

Another thing is straps will get frayed and lose most of their strength. Chains don't fray.

[Scag48]

why chains? I hate chains! they get rusty and there heavy and just i dont know i dont like them you cant strap down a piece of equipment with chains without getting dirty.. my dad and I have never had a piece of equipment fall off.. i can remember one strap breaking in the whole time i have been around this business (was always hanging around the shop when i was five) i can remember only one breaking and my dad has been doin this 20+ years and has always used straps and he has never lost a piece of equipment...

You've never had a piece fall off? I'd hope not. The fact of the matter is, the DOT couldn't care less about that pointless fact. Law is law, you aren't legal with that setup. Like RSG said, all hydraulic implements need to be chained. So one over the blade and one over the bucket.

The reason your dad has never lost a piece of equipment is because he's never been in a situation where those straps would actually be put to the test. In an accident situation, that machine would be off that trailer so damn quick it's not even funny when bound down with straps as opposed to chains. Seriously, get some good chains.

[CAT powered]

If anyone doesn't feel that tying their equipment down as best as they possibly can is important I can put you in contact with a man who is now paralyzed because he was hauling a large JD tractor on a trailer and he either didn't properly tie down his load or it broke loose and it crushed the cab of the truck leaving him paralyzed.

Meeting someone with a story like that is enough to make you double-check your tiedowns every time you go out.

[Even Cut Lawn Care]

This guy cant be more than 16... He probly cant pick up a 30' 3/8 grade 70 chain. So therefor he uses straps.

[RockSet N' Grade]

Its kinda off thread, but tie down system is important. I upgraded all my chains and binders (yes, binders are rated also) to grade 80 some time ago and it cost me $1000 for the upgrade. But, I am legal. All chains are secured to the trailer inside the rub-rail (important little point if you get into a fender bender), all chains/binders are marked "grade 80", and I secure the machine front and rear, one chain to the rear tie hook on the sub frame to prevent it from going forward, one chain on the blade and one chain over the bucket to secure the boom/stick/bucket. For me, that is 5 chains and I am legal. Read the law, don't just do it because "it has been done that way"......I am all fun and games until it comes to safety and then it is time to get real. Equipment can kill and mutilate in a heart beat ( I have seen it ) and this is no place to be lax or just ignorant.

[Gravel Rat]

When we were hauling mini excavators on flatdeck trucks we used 4 inch straps two over the tracks and one over the boom.

The way that excavator is strapped on the trailer isn't really strapped down well enough for me. I would still use the straps but they would be cross strapped on the back then strapped from the blade mount on the undercarriage down to the trailer on each side. The boom tucked under with a strap over the stick.

You can get those ratchet straps with a 10,000lb load rating. I never have broke a ratchet strap and I have used them to strap down scrap vehicals to my truck.

I learned from lowbedders that have been lowbedding for 20 or more years they say the DOT rules are just to cover the gov'ts azz. The loggers have moved 130,000lb machines on lowbeds with 5 chains usually 1/2 inch grade 70.

The roads are not straight and the trucks are climbing and decending 10% grades.

[coopers]

Besides having chains to be legal, it makes you h ave more manly hands! :) Not sure on your laws there but in this state it is a crime to loose a load. Even if it's strapped down, if it is not properly done you run the risk of jail time if substantial bodily injury occurs.

[talus]

Hey jlm335. Did Kreft sell you those straps?:laugh:I think we finally convinced him to go the chain and binder route. Even if nobody gets hurt,would you like to see that mini ex on it's side? Think of it this way. If I saw a machine on it's side in the road I would say to myself "What a moron". If I saw a machine with 10 chains on it I would say "Holy crap that thing isn't goin anywhere" It's a lot of $ on that trailer. If it does fall off you could always do it Gravel Rats way with 5 gallon buckets,a mattock and some sort of zip line.

[CAT powered]

Do you have any sort of specs on the weight and length of that vehicle there, JLM?

[Even Cut Lawn Care]

Is That Your Miniex? It Looks Like Rental Numbers Or Something On The Side?

[kreft]

Hey jlm335. Did Kreft sell you those straps?:laugh:I think we finally convinced him to go the chain and binder route. Even if nobody gets hurt,would you like to see that mini ex on it's side? Think of it this way. If I saw a machine on it's side in the road I would say to myself "What a moron". If I saw a machine with 10 chains on it I would say "Holy crap that thing isn't goin anywhere" It's a lot of $ on that trailer. If it does fall off you could always do it Gravel Rats way with 5 gallon buckets,a mattock and some sort of zip line.

So how are those straps I sent you holding up jlm335?:laugh:

[Gravel Rat]

I guess you guys don't realize if the machine is strapped down to regulation it will cause your truck and trailer to roll over which will cause more damage and the chance of killing more people.

You can have all the chains on the machine you want but if the trailer tie down points are not strong enough a high test chain does nothing.

You guys in the USA fear the DOT so much and they know it so its just a license to steal. The DOT in the USA is the worst in North America.

The regulations I have to follow is each tie down has a capacity atleast 5000lbs it says atleast 4 tie downs shal be used. The regulations don't say if chains need to be used.

If you used 2 of these straps on a small mini you will tweak the trailer before the straps break. One strap over the tracks behind the idler and one over the tracks at the sprocket end and a strap over the boom you have 16,000lbs worth of holding capacity. When you have a machine with rubber tracks you are not going to cut the straps. When your hauling a rubber tired machine a 4 inch belt will pull down a machine so tight you will flatten the tires.

When I was hauling scrap cars I used to beable to cave the roof of a car in with a 4 inch load strap.

http://www.kinedyne.com/flatbed/flatbed-detail.asp?FamilyName=4Inch&Cat=WinchStraps

[Even Cut Lawn Care]

[QUOTE=Gravel Rat;2480827]I guess you guys don't realize if the machine is strapped down to regulation it will cause your truck and trailer to roll over which will cause more damage and the chance of killing more people.

You can have all the chains on the machine you want but if the trailer tie down points are not strong enough a high test chain does nothing.

You guys in the USA fear the DOT so much and they know it so its just a license to steal. The DOT in the USA is the worst in North America.

The regulations I have to follow is each tie down has a capacity atleast 5000lbs it says atleast 4 tie downs shal be used. The regulations don't say if chains need to be used.

If you used 2 of these straps on a small mini you will tweak the trailer before the straps break. One strap over the tracks behind the idler and one over the tracks at the sprocket end and a strap over the boom you have 16,000lbs worth of holding capacity. When you have a machine with rubber tracks you are not going to cut the straps. When your hauling a rubber tired machine a 4 inch belt will pull down a machine so tight you will flatten the tires.

When I was hauling scrap cars I used to beable to cave the roof of a car in with a 4 inch load strap.[QUOTE=Gravel Rat;2480827]

Uh...Actually no. Wrong on most accounts there. Fear the DOT? WHY? Steal what? Tie down points are there to tie to they are not going to break. Thats why the manufacturer puts them there. And i seriously doubt you will tweak any good trailer before breaking a strap. I grew up with my Dad in an OTR truck pulling a flatbed with all kinds of different loads and we broke numerous straps but never a chain. Just use chains and you wont have anything to worry about. If you roll your truck and trailer because it is properly tied down, then you have no buisness pulling a trailer with any kind of equipment on it.

[Gravel Rat]

Like I said I learned from lowbedders and truck drivers that haul heavier loads than what you guys can legally gross. The other day I was helping load a 100,000lb log loader on a lowbed we put 5 chains on it and the truck headed down the road. I have been in trucking for 15 years been loading trucks for 18 years. I'am a owner operator and have a motor carrier number.

This isn't where I live but we have hills like this ones

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOWETaeLMY4
www.youtube.com/watch?v=perk3nXtkUo
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrieXuofynU

[Even Cut Lawn Care]

Yeah that sounds about right there is a limit to how many chains you can put on a piece of equipment. Ive been in, around, or driving a truck since I could walk. Dad and I have hauled about anything you can think of. But, you dodged my questions.

[CAT powered]

I would MUCH rather roll my own trailer over than have a machine slide off the trailer and kill someone. If you use a bumper pull like that and the trailer is going over you're probably going to pop the hitch open or snap it before you flip the rest of the truck. And even if the hitch doesn't break I'd rather wreck my truck because I'm not going to sue me. If I wreck some idiots car because my machine slides off my trailer he's going to sue me for every penny I've ever had and then some.

[Junior M]

The straps on the on the tracks are to keep it from goin to forward and if you look we strapped off of the blade which will keep it down and it wont roll backwards either.. and we have used this strap set up in over 12 states while goin to through wieght stations and never got in trouble and these straps are rated for 10,000 pounds each so it is all good... and I am fourteen and did you ever think that i go pick up equipment after school in good clothes and if i used chains i would get dirty and bull shiat if i am goin to ruin the clothes i paid for... and it isnt illegal we arent the only ones around that use straps. If you put the straps on the right place on stuff they wont fray... and the guy i used to work for used chains and the whole summer i saw four chains snap...

so what if we use straps its ours i just posted this to show the work not to get freakn ranted at because of the way we do things...

[Junior M]

Do you have any sort of specs on the weight and length of that vehicle there, JLM?
the truck is maxed out right now but it pulls it just fine... the trailer is a 24ft long 14,000 pound axles with brakes on both axles.. the trailer wieghts 4,000 the machine with fluid wieghts a little over 9,000 pounds i believe.. i cant quite remember what it wieghts but we are more legal on wieght and tie down than our bobcat dealer and the local cat dealer.. we have seen both tie down equipment that was slammed right on the nose of the trailer with only two binders no chains or straps just binders...

and it is a rental machine for now.. it is being sold in the spring of 2009 and we have first dibs on it as of right now.. and it will come with three buckets, new tracks (big chunk of track missing that i am afraid that will snap if i turn alot on asphalt or concrete) and we are goin to put new pins and bushings in it.. the sad part is it shouldnt need pins and bushings but i cant stand all the slop in the stick and bucket.. but we will grease every day so it will stay like new. and no we arent taking that stupid thumb! I hate that thing i dont think that bobcat makes a thumb for it so they took a thumb off of a 337 and stuck it on there because it is always in you way and it is freakn huge.. but we have got other excavators with thumbs and they never got in the way like this one...

[CAT powered]

Old rentals can be a bad choice in machines. Usually they are VERY worn and broken even with low hours. I had to rent a small JD tractor with a 3pt backhoe on it for doing a drainage project at my inlaws and I ended up bending part of the backhoe boom because the pin that connected the cylinder to the stick was half broken off. I pulled it out after I'd bent everything up and the pin was DRY to the touch. That pin should have been covered in grease. Things like that wear machines very prematurely and from my experience it isn't all that uncommon with rentals.

Any idea of the weight/height/length of that Bobcat?

[RockSet N' Grade]

The job you were doing looks pretty cool and nice work. Thanks for posting the pictures of that work......we do pools too, and it is always good to see someone else's work and system of install......You obviously did not go read the 75 pages of DOT info on tie down info on the link I posted because, yes, straps can be legal to tie down a piece of equipment. My point was, and still is, according to the law you missed a few tie-down points regardless of what anyone else is doing. I do not begrudge your age and the previous posts by others knocking on your age is pointless and gets us nowhere. I am here to learn, and the learning comes in all shapes and forms. I am here to improve and make my business better........constructive criticism is invited.....none of us have the site improvement holy grail........

[Junior M]

yeah i know but it is the only thing that we can afford and we have had alot of little 500 dollar jobs lately that we had to turn down or charge out of the a$$ because of rental where if we owned a machine we could do little jobs like that and not have to worry about time or getting them back and forth to the dealer.....

and i told you the wieght earlier and the hieght and length i have no clue....

[Junior M]

The job you were doing looks pretty cool and nice work. Thanks for posting the pictures of that work......we do pools too, and it is always good to see someone else's work and system of install......You obviously did not go read the 75 pages of DOT info on tie down info on the link I posted because, yes, straps can be legal to tie down a piece of equipment. My point was, and still is, according to the law you missed a few tie-down points regardless of what anyone else is doing. I do not begrudge your age and the previous posts by others knocking on your age is pointless and gets us nowhere. I am here to learn, and the learning comes in all shapes and forms. I am here to improve and make my business better........constructive criticism is invited.....none of us have the site improvement holy grail........
sorry about that... what points did we miss? I was just so aggravated... i didnt mean to be an ******* about it... i am sorry...

[CAT powered]

Well everyone's got to start somewhere. Keep pluggin along and you can upgrade somewhere along the line.

First step: Go from Bobcrap to CAT.

[Junior M]

Well everyone's got to start somewhere. Keep pluggin along and you can upgrade somewhere along the line.

First step: Go from Bobcrap to CAT.
nope!! I will go to crapmotsu before i go to cat!!

[Junior M]

here are some more....

[RockSet N' Grade]

We just finished a pool where the happy-homeowner fired their first guy.....after doing a grundle of these, I have learned a few little things. Strip the entire yard of sod before doing a pool......leaving sod anywhere in the area asks for trouble down the road because the homeowner always, and I mean always, change their mind to the type and size of deck surrounding the pool. The other little tid bit I have learned is compact compact compact the area as you are going OR if the home-owner does not want that and does not want to pay the price, have them sign a piece of paper stating so........because down the road a year or two when the deck settles or cracks, memories seem to be selective if ya catch my drift.

[Junior M]

when we backfilled it we (my dad and I) had only been on the job once before and that was to decide if we might need any additional equipment. the only parts we do for this pool builder is backfill and wire the pools.. the settling we cant help with all the sand.. we would still be there trying to compact it.. but by the time the concrete guys get there it has settled about as much as it is going to settle. the concrete guys have to do some dirt work.. we cant help that they are goin to have to throw some dirt back in on some of the ledges.. but if the dirt has alot of rock and trash in it we might go back again but most the time we wont because the pool contractor is just so cheap and greedy. so most of the time sod is left.. but this one we tried as hard as we could not to bury sod.. when we were grading it out we would pile the sod and then throw it in our excess dirt pile. most of the pools we backfill dont usually have alot of sod and where the concrete will be is usually within the three or four foot overdig.

[Gravel Rat]

That has to be the easiest digging conditions you can get no large rocks no hard pan you could dig that with a shovel its so soft.

To put a pool like that in my neighbourhood would require a day of rock hammering with a 200 sized machine.

[CAT powered]

Well then at least you won't need a liner. Just make a hole in the rock and throw the hose in!

[Gravel Rat]

It will be a little sharp on the skin with a hammered hole :laugh:

Very few in ground pools in this area or pools in general because if you want to go swimming there is lots of nice lakes with sandy beaches.