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bblawncare
07-08-2008, 09:19 PM
My next door neighbor is having his concrete driveway torn up and replaced this week-the discharge line from his pump to the index valve runs under the driveway (don't yell at me, I did not do it that way-we're in FL, remember?) along with 1 other zone line. I am wondering what precautions he might take to prevent the pipe from being damaged when they re-pour the driveway. (or does the concrete company worry about that? :laugh: (funny, huh?) They (the pipes) are not much deeper than the existing concrete-and I know we can check them for damage after the demolition of the old, but what about when they pour? Wouldn't that stink if one of the pipes got damaged during the pour?? Could/should we sleeve them or lower them? Anyone ever have this problem or have suggestions to help prevent problems?

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-08-2008, 09:27 PM
My next door neighbor is having his concrete driveway torn up and replaced this week-the discharge line from his pump to the index valve runs under the driveway (don't yell at me, I did not do it that way-we're in FL, remember?) along with 1 other zone line. I am wondering what precautions he might take to prevent the pipe from being damaged when they re-pour the driveway. (or does the concrete company worry about that? :laugh: (funny, huh?) They (the pipes) are not much deeper than the existing concrete-and I know we can check them for damage after the demolition of the old, but what about when they pour? Wouldn't that stink if one of the pipes got damaged during the pour?? Could/should we sleeve them or lower them? Anyone ever have this problem or have suggestions to help prevent problems?

I would sleve with a few 2 inch poly pieces of pipe.....or some large cheap pvc....

Ive even see people sleve with corrugated drainage pipe.....good luck...

WalkGood
07-08-2008, 10:24 PM
Be careful that the sleeves do not get filled with cement!!!

Mike Leary
07-08-2008, 10:29 PM
I would sleve with a few 2 inch poly pieces of pipe.....

Sleeve with 4" sch 40,( accept no substitutes.)

geardriven
07-08-2008, 10:31 PM
SCH 40 is the ticket...code in some places. Duct tape the ends, stake the ends and burry it till the concrete is done. Take note as to where the stakes are at b/c more than likely they'll get removed, knocked, etc...and you'll be searching for the sleeve.

Mike Leary
07-08-2008, 10:44 PM
SCH 40 is the ticket...code in some places. Duct tape the ends, stake the ends and burry it till the concrete is done. Take note as to where the stakes are at b/c more than likely they'll get removed, knocked, etc...and you'll be searching for the sleeve.

Good point, we mark multiple sleeves with appropriate colors for future.

bblawncare
07-09-2008, 06:47 AM
SCH 40 is the ticket...code in some places. Duct tape the ends, stake the ends and burry it till the concrete is done. Take note as to where the stakes are at b/c more than likely they'll get removed, knocked, etc...and you'll be searching for the sleeve.

Just to be clear here, we should cut and remove the old lines, place the sch40 sleeves-mark their places, tape ends to prevent concrete entrance, and then when concrete is complete, replace the lines by running them through the sleeves? Thanks for your help guys.

AI Inc
07-09-2008, 06:54 AM
Definatly mark the sleeves, as the saying goes " an unmarked sleeve is the same as no sleeve"

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-09-2008, 08:18 AM
I elbowed my sleeves up and cut a pipe to extend 2-3' above grade. Not any big secret trick though.

WalkGood
07-09-2008, 12:47 PM
I elbowed my sleeves up and cut a pipe to extend 2-3' above grade. Not any big secret trick though.


45 degree elbow ? Or a 22 ½ degree? Or are the elbows just for during cement pour (yes I know the 2-3' above grade is temp)?

Elbows for sleeves used for poly make sliding pipe easier. But I imagine are awkward for glued PVC?

geardriven
07-09-2008, 04:40 PM
On larger projects....where there's a lot of grading, etc. elbow's on the end of the sleeves with a stub up is ideal. It could be weeks before having to access that sleeve and a stake isn't going to stick around.

So...to recap, bury the sleeve. You can either duct tape the ends and place a stake out of the ground at the ends of the sleeve OR put 90's on the ends with another piece of pipe 12-18" out of the ground. I just think for a driveway, it's costly and wasteful to use 4" elbows and short piece's of pipe for stub ups.

Waterit
07-09-2008, 04:48 PM
I'd lay (3) 2" sch. 40 pipes, both extending 6-12" past edges of driveway. One would be for future use (control wire, lighting, whatever). It will save you some time and work to run the active piping (zone pipe and the indexer feed) through the sleeves when you lay them. 90 up the inside piping well away from the pour area, or measure from 2 fixed points where the ends are. If the feed pipe is 1-1/2", you'll have to upsize the sleeve.

Laying 4" across a 16' driveway is a waste of money. You can lay the 3 2" for the same cost.

Mike Leary
07-09-2008, 05:03 PM
Laying 4" across a 16' driveway is a waste of money. You can lay the 3 2" for the same cost.

Not a waste down the road when the property changes hands & gates, lighting &
communication are wanted + more zones. We put three runs of 4" sch 40
wherever it's prudent.

frumdig
07-09-2008, 06:47 PM
i agree with the 4". its saved me on a bunch of jobs, esp when drainage is a concern... i mean certain areas are obivous where a 2" will do...
and why is it that no one ever sleaves planters? ive had a couple with planters, 6-8', stepping down multiple levels... i guess its not really sleaving, because you do actually have to glue the pipe together. and for electric, you have to install sweeps... theyll call before they pore conrete, but not before they backfill the planters...

-Evan

Mike Leary
07-09-2008, 06:52 PM
theyll call before they pore concrete, but not before they backfill the planters...


Don't count on anyone thinking of you, got to stay on top of it. I'm blessed
to have a contractor who calls whenever he's got a trench open.

Dirty Water
07-09-2008, 06:54 PM
Mike, you do realize that 4" SCH 40 is thinner than 4" class pipe? At least, if memory serves me right, I think that is the point where they cross over, either that or 6".

Regardless, at that size, class pipe has a very thick wall, so no need for SCH40.

I actually prefer to use the 3080 4" Green Sewer pipe for sleeves. The bells are shallow and its easy to push pipe through them.

Mike Leary
07-09-2008, 07:03 PM
Mike, you do realize that 4" SCH 40 is thinner than 4" class pipe? At least, if memory serves me right, I think that is the point where they cross over, either that or 6"..

The cross over is 6", back away from the water cooler & get back to work.

Dirty Water
07-09-2008, 07:06 PM
The cross over is 6", back away from the water cooler & get back to work.

Fine....

Still like my sewer pipe :)

http://thenetworkgarden.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/watercooler_4.jpg

Mike Leary
07-09-2008, 07:09 PM
Fine....

Still like my sewer pipe :)

You are right, that green pipe is cool, not sure about the price difference, tho.

Dirty Water
07-09-2008, 07:35 PM
You are right, that green pipe is cool, not sure about the price difference, tho.

When I was in the biz, the price difference was a pretty good savings. I seem to recall 20' sticks of 4" sewer pipe being around $16, while 4" SCH 40 was around $22

WalkGood
07-09-2008, 07:41 PM
I actually prefer to use the 3080 4" Green Sewer pipe for sleeves. The bells are shallow and its easy to push pipe through them.


What is "3080" ? Part #? A classification ?

Mike Leary
07-09-2008, 07:45 PM
What is "3080" ? Part #? A classification ?

Call your rep, I'm not sure that's the right #, but it's green, gasket pipe,
for sewer use, the price difference is what you want to look at.

geardriven
07-09-2008, 08:17 PM
Someone mentioned that 3- 2" pipes cost the same as 1- 4"....."it's a waste of money." ??? Well, if 4" costs the same, then I'd surely prefer to use 4". 4" is better in the fact that you're not limited to 1 1/4" pipe.

S&D pipe used to be way cheaper than SCH40. 3080 would be a S&D pipe...being much thinner than sch40. The problems with using S&D pipe is: 1. Not all irrigation suppliers keep S&D pipe in stock regularly 2. S&D pipe is not upto snuff for codes in certain areas.

WalkGood
07-09-2008, 08:29 PM
Call your rep, I'm not sure that's the right #, but it's green, gasket pipe,
for sewer use, the price difference is what you want to look at.

The thicker-walled green sewer pipe with an o-ring at the bell end? Bell is short but tight fitting, right? That pipe is STRONG :weightlifter: I don't know it's brand name nor numbers..... the few times I have needed it I just ask for "that green sewer pipe thick walled with the o-ring end".

We have cesspools here mostly (shallow ground water prevents municipal sewage system). I've used that pipe to replace "orangeburg" sewage line from house to cesspool. Have to smack the tapered end into the o-ring bell. Did I mention that the pipe is strong?

BrandonV
07-09-2008, 08:37 PM
there is sch 40 for pressure and non-pressure cell-core sch 40 that we use for ALL sleeves under concrete. sometimes it's 4 inch and sometimes its 6". Sleeves are cheap insurance for future h20, lighting and more than once drainage projects.

Dirty Water
07-09-2008, 08:52 PM
What is "3080" ? Part #? A classification ?

Sorry, its 3034 (As in meets or exceeds ASTM D3034 specs). I've been out of the biz for a while.

Its great stuff.

Dirty Water
07-09-2008, 08:53 PM
The thicker-walled green sewer pipe with an o-ring at the bell end? Bell is short but tight fitting, right? That pipe is STRONG :weightlifter: I don't know it's brand name nor numbers..... the few times I have needed it I just ask for "that green sewer pipe thick walled with the o-ring end".

We have cesspools here mostly (shallow ground water prevents municipal sewage system). I've used that pipe to replace "orangeburg" sewage line from house to cesspool. Have to smack the tapered end into the o-ring bell. Did I mention that the pipe is strong?

Its strong, but there is technique to the gasket joints. Don't just beat on them with a hammer or you will shatter the pipe.

Its only for non pressure usage, perfect for sleeves, cesspools and drainlines.

Mike Leary
07-09-2008, 09:04 PM
[QUOTE=Dirty Water;2411322. Don't just beat on them with a hammer or you will shatter the pipe[/QUOTE]

If you're using it for a sleeve, remove the gasket & glue.

Dirty Water
07-09-2008, 09:06 PM
If you're using it for a sleeve, remove the gasket & glue.

No need, a quick wipe with pipe lube and the right technique and they pop together by hand.

Or, since we always had heavy equipment sitting around, you can push them together using the tip of the plowblade from the 410 or a backhoe bucket without any lube.

Mike Leary
07-09-2008, 09:12 PM
No need, a quick wipe with pipe lube and the right technique and they pop together by hand.

Or, since we always had heavy equipment sitting around, you can push them together using the tip of the plowblade from the 410 or a backhoe bucket without any lube.

You sure miss the bizz, don't you, Jon?

Dirty Water
07-09-2008, 09:14 PM
You sure miss the bizz, don't you, Jon?

Like you wouldn't believe.

geardriven
07-09-2008, 10:32 PM
No need, a quick wipe with pipe lube and the right technique and they pop together by hand.

Or, since we always had heavy equipment sitting around, you can push them together using the tip of the plowblade from the 410 or a backhoe bucket without any lube.

seems like an aweful lot to do for sleeving.

koster_irrigation
07-09-2008, 10:33 PM
We have used double walled corrugated in some instances to save money,

its super strong.

Dirty Water
07-09-2008, 10:35 PM
seems like an aweful lot to do for sleeving.

Takes less time compared to glueing them.

geardriven
07-09-2008, 10:41 PM
I have a difficult time believing that one guy gluing 2 pcs. of pvc pipe together takes longer than 2 guys putting 2 pcs of gasketed pipe together....let alone using a mini excavator or some other equipment to put them together.
Given....this thread was originally talking about a single driveway and one sleeve!
You start getting different types of piping for a job...there will be more money waste in material. If you were to use sch40, you could atleast use it for irrigation at some point (intake, etc).

WalkGood
07-09-2008, 10:59 PM
If it is a very wide driveway and you could only get 10 foot lengths then you have 2 or more pieces to put together.

IIRC, it didn't take much to pop the 2 pieces together. Lubed the o-ring and smacked w/shovel on a 2x4 held on the end of pipe. No damage to pipe.

WalkGood
07-09-2008, 11:01 PM
We have used double walled corrugated in some instances to save money,

its super strong.


Doesn't the inside corrugation snag the pipe you try to push thru? How much could you really save to make it worthwhile?

Dirty Water
07-09-2008, 11:01 PM
I have a difficult time believing that one guy gluing 2 pcs. of pvc pipe together takes longer than 2 guys putting 2 pcs of gasketed pipe together....let alone using a mini excavator or some other equipment to put them together.
Given....this thread was originally talking about a single driveway and one sleeve!
You start getting different types of piping for a job...there will be more money waste in material. If you were to use sch40, you could atleast use it for irrigation at some point (intake, etc).

Who said 2 guys?

Its a one man job.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-09-2008, 11:50 PM
On larger projects....where there's a lot of grading, etc. elbow's on the end of the sleeves with a stub up is ideal. It could be weeks before having to access that sleeve and a stake isn't going to stick around.

So...to recap, bury the sleeve. You can either duct tape the ends and place a stake out of the ground at the ends of the sleeve OR put 90's on the ends with another piece of pipe 12-18" out of the ground. I just think for a driveway, it's costly and wasteful to use 4" elbows and short piece's of pipe for stub ups.

We don't glue the elbows on. Just take off after you dig the the sleeve ends out and toss back into the truck.

geardriven
07-11-2008, 01:38 AM
no glueing elbows....only glueing pipe IF you are over 20'.


how can you use a mini escavator with 2 pieces of gasketed pipe?