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koster_irrigation
07-09-2008, 10:22 PM
Installed them in my backyard a while back. Found them on ebay, some guy had them and never used them.


These sprinklers have the forward and tail nozzles, for full circle only. Like a super 600, but with an additional nozzle for the back side.

Only old school guys might appreciate this, I cant find a date code on them, id have to guess mid-late 80's


Flame on if you like.....

Wet_Boots
07-09-2008, 10:25 PM
Can you unscrew the nozzle 'turret' ?

DanaMac
07-09-2008, 10:26 PM
I will knock any residential sprinkler product that starts with a "T" and ends with "oro" and no letters in between. Couldn't tell ya which one is the Super 604, and couldn't care less. I throw out more Toro products than probably all others combined.

koster_irrigation
07-09-2008, 10:27 PM
Our first flamer!!
I throw out more Super 700's than any other rotor combined.


No, The stem is more like a 300 series, the top 3/4" of the head rotates. a 600's whole stem rotates i do beleive
isnt the 600's stem secured with an allen wrench set screw?

Mark B
07-09-2008, 11:40 PM
So Dana does that mean you really like Toro?? When I worked for Elon that is all they would install was toro everything. I ran into the 600's. I always likes the way the 300 looked when working correct.

Wet_Boots
07-10-2008, 09:26 AM
Sounds like the Super604 is really a full-circle XP-300 with a two-nozzle turret instead of the usual four-nozzle one. Wonder if you could remove the turret and place a half-circle arc disc in it.

DanaMac
07-10-2008, 10:17 AM
So Dana does that mean you really like Toro??

Maybe I did not make myself clear.... no, I very much dislike all residential Toro products :)

Wet_Boots
07-10-2008, 10:22 AM
Awwwww, but what about the stream rotor heads?

DanaMac
07-10-2008, 10:32 AM
Awwwww, but what about the stream rotor heads?

Replaced too many that stopped or were clogged and not spraying properly.

Wet_Boots
07-10-2008, 10:44 AM
Replaced too many that stopped or were clogged and not spraying properly.So, you never installed a system with them? Were the heads you replaced set below grade? When you do a stream rotor job, and have zero head replacements over the next decade, their reliability becomes obvious. Only the Rainbird R-50 has equalled the Stream Rotor reliability record, of recently made heads. (and the old Safe-T-Lawn rotor exceeded it, but that's vanished into the mists of history)

DanaMac
07-10-2008, 10:47 AM
So, you never installed a system with them? Were the heads you replaced set below grade?

No, never installed them. Couldn't tell ya if they were below grade or not. I will say it again, the head i have replaced the least of, is the Hunter PGP.

Wet_Boots
07-10-2008, 11:03 AM
PGPs are good. I have some blocks of systems where I was installing PGPs, but some homeowners wanted, and got, Toro S600 heads. Early on, the S600s failed more often, especially the 1.3PC, but as time has passed, it looks like all the original PGPs will fail before all the S600s will fail. Stream rotors are still more reliable, even with them having lost the (vegetable) oil they packed the gear drive with.

Mike Leary
07-10-2008, 04:42 PM
Stream rotors are still more reliable, even with them having lost the (vegetable) oil they packed the gear drive with.

Streamies put me in a good mood: I don't believe I've ever had one go bad.
Replaced nozzles, arc disks & seals, but never the guts, even the ones without
the lube oil. :)

Wet_Boots
07-10-2008, 04:54 PM
Streamies put me in a good mood: I don't believe I've ever had one go bad.
Replaced nozzles, arc disks & seals, but never the guts, even the ones without
the lube oil. :)I think the gear-drive failures happen more in freezing climates. I wonder if they could ever build a water-compatible version of the drive.

Mike Leary
07-10-2008, 05:01 PM
I think the gear-drive failures happen more in freezing climates. I wonder if they could ever build a water-compatible version of the drive.

Imagine how cool that head would be if Ed Hunter had been able to hold onto
the patent & keep tinkering.

Wet_Boots
07-10-2008, 05:09 PM
True that. I'd think he'd have tried a bit more with the XP-300 model, since it seems to lack the good performance of the Rain Pro 320 gear drive.

Waterit
07-10-2008, 06:22 PM
I think the gear-drive failures happen more in freezing climates. I wonder if they could ever build a water-compatible version of the drive.

We get our share of failures down South too, caused either by sand or by our highly acidic well water that simply dissoles metal internal parts. Just ask RB about the T-Bird - hundreds failed due to dissolved metal in the return mechanism.

Mike Leary
07-10-2008, 06:39 PM
Just ask RB about the T-Bird - hundreds failed due to dissolved metal in the return mechanism.

Wowser! We had the first batch fail, but RB was great about it. NW has
acid water, as well as iron & manganese, but I had problem zero with those
little dears & still have many in service. One of my favorite heads, but most
of you don't share my opinion. :cry:

AI Inc
07-10-2008, 07:42 PM
Wowser! We had the first batch fail, but RB was great about it. NW has
acid water, as well as iron & manganese, but I had problem zero with those
little dears & still have many in service. One of my favorite heads, but most
of you don't share my opinion. :cry:

Neither did RB, they redesigned it 3 times before tossing it completly

irritation
07-10-2008, 07:54 PM
T-Birds and R-50s are junk, I hope the 5000's stand up in time. I need a good rotor that will last. I had to switch from PGP'S to RB 5000's because of the seal problems. :hammerhead:

Mike Leary
07-10-2008, 08:00 PM
I hope the 5000's stand up in time.

I'll let you know, we've got a 5000 stainless w/MPR turf layout going now.

irritation
07-10-2008, 08:04 PM
Trust me, I'll know. I've installed a crap load this year.

Mike Leary
07-10-2008, 08:29 PM
Trust me, I'll know. I've installed a crap load this year.

You tell me if they stop rotating, & I'll tell you.

irritation
07-10-2008, 08:33 PM
Yea, or leak around the seal.
At least they have a 5 year warranty, better than Hunter.

Mike Leary
07-10-2008, 08:35 PM
Yea, or leak around the seal.

If anyone will cause them to fail, it'll be me...pumping out of a cistern.

Waterit
07-10-2008, 09:10 PM
Wowser! We had the first batch fail, but RB was great about it. NW has
acid water, as well as iron & manganese, but I had problem zero with those
little dears & still have many in service. One of my favorite heads, but most
of you don't share my opinion. :cry:

I happen to share your opinion (what's wrong with this picture?). RB replaced everything we returned and gave us Rainbird Bucks (remember them?) to help offset the labor.

I loved the TBird, was sorry to see it go. Still have handfuls in service, too.

5000's are a worthy replacement - have had 2 go bad in 3 years.

Wet_Boots
07-10-2008, 10:18 PM
T-Birds and R-50s are junk, I hope the 5000's stand up in time. I need a good rotor that will last. I had to switch from PGP'S to RB 5000's because of the seal problems. :hammerhead:Did you ever install the R-50 heads? On city water, I found them to be more reliable than any gear drive rotor like a PGP or 5000. Annoying to work with, when you changed nozzles.

irritation
07-10-2008, 10:29 PM
About the only problem I have with the R-50's is they don't retract after a few years. However, that's a big problem in my view.

Wet_Boots
07-10-2008, 10:49 PM
Rainbird heads not retracting are rare birds indeed. Never saw that on the ones I installed. If the installer spazzed out and slid the little ring up, instead of down when setting the arc, then that could distort it, and lead to hangups.

irritation
07-10-2008, 10:53 PM
Rainbird heads not retracting are rare birds indeed.

I'm sorry but that was known problem with the R-50 head.

Mike Leary
07-10-2008, 11:32 PM
I happen to share your opinion (what's wrong with this picture?).

Yup, how about this pic ?

Wet_Boots
07-10-2008, 11:44 PM
I'm sorry but that was known problem with the R-50 head.I didn't install enough of them to see every possible problem they had. Probably started using them in the mid-late 90's, after I noticed a few service accounts I took on never needed any R-50 heads replaced. That trend continued for me. I miss a lot of grief by waiting a few years before installing new designs. I charged more for R-50 systems, so most folks went with PGPs.

Waterit
07-11-2008, 01:40 AM
Yup, how about this pic ?

:clapping::clapping:

I have GOT to get to the beach this weekend with the digicam.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-11-2008, 08:09 AM
On rotors again I was talking to a counter guy whose opinion I give credibility. He says in general all the rotors out now are pretty good with very little returns. Only rotor that doesn't sale is the Toro.

KRain, Hunter, RB, W. Matic all seem to be good rotors these days. Says the Wmatic turbo is getting really popular. I've never tried one and may see what the big deal is.

Wet_Boots
07-11-2008, 08:24 AM
Which Toro rotor(s) does he refer to?

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-11-2008, 08:38 AM
Which Toro rotor(s) does he refer to?

I'm guessing the one that competes with PGP, 5004, KRain etc. I'm clueless as to the Toro product line.

Wet_Boots
07-11-2008, 08:49 AM
Since Toro is all over the map with rotors, I have to wonder. They got ancient goodies, like stream rotors, the S700, the PGP wannabee Super 800, the TR-50 (of which I'm most curious)

Dirty Water
07-11-2008, 06:06 PM
I don't understand you boots.

R-50's, and Toro 300's were the least reliable heads I've ever worked with. I've had more 300's that fail to work out of the box than any other head. A nozzle swap is all they ever need, but then because their nozzles are 60% of the heads, I consider that a full failure. Additionally, they cannot handle any debris in the line, or they stop spinning.

A far too temperamental head for my taste.

We had an entire subdivision that someone had done with R-50's that we would replace a head or two with a PGP on a weekly basis.

Mike Leary
07-11-2008, 07:09 PM
I don't understand you boots.
A far too temperamental head for my taste.

Gee, a Stream Rotor nozzle costs a whole $4.00 & takes 5 sec to replace,
what's the big deal?

Dirty Water
07-11-2008, 07:38 PM
Gee, a Stream Rotor nozzle costs a whole $4.00 & takes 5 sec to replace,
what's the big deal?

Thats what I'm saying, half the cost of the head is the nozzle. Having to replace a nozzle is akin to a bad head in my book.

PGP nozzles are free and take 2 seconds to replace? :)

Mike Leary
07-11-2008, 08:02 PM
Thats what I'm saying, half the cost of the head is the nozzle. Having to replace a nozzle is akin to a bad head in my book.:)

Back away from the water cooler, the only way Stream Rotors fail are:
(A) Improper attention to spacing. (B) Not enough pressure.
(C) Lack of service.

brookviewlawncare
07-11-2008, 08:17 PM
Now if dirty is talking about the 300 with the plastic arc disk and adj nozzle i will concur!! But if these are the the older older ones with the stainless arc plate red nozzle seal and 03/02/63/93 nozzle then i would have to agree with boots.

brookviewlawncare
07-11-2008, 08:21 PM
I have also wonder after reading allot of post on hear does anyone think they may test market some changes or different quality heads of the same series in different parts of the country . I know we all have different tastes in product but never hear anything bad about the nelson 6000 which has got to be the worst head ever

Dirty Water
07-11-2008, 08:22 PM
Back away from the water cooler, the only way Stream Rotors fail are:
(A) Improper attention to spacing. (B) Not enough pressure.
(C) Lack of service.

(D) Dirty Water (as in a crummy well, or a canal pump system...not me)
(E) Improperly set head (or Turf buildup)
(F) Garden Gnomes attacking them at night
(G) Not sacrificing a goat to the irrigation god before installing.

AI Inc
07-11-2008, 08:25 PM
I have also wonder after reading allot of post on hear does anyone think they may test market some changes or different quality heads of the same series in different parts of the country . I know we all have different tastes in product but never hear anything bad about the nelson 6000 which has got to be the worst head ever

I used to service a few systems with nelson rotors.I would swap out 3-4 every yr even if they didnt need it just because.

Waterit
07-11-2008, 08:29 PM
I have also wonder after reading allot of post on hear does anyone think they may test market some changes or different quality heads of the same series in different parts of the country . I know we all have different tastes in product but never hear anything bad about the nelson 6000 which has got to be the worst head ever

Because Nelson isn't worth the energy to bash?

brookviewlawncare
07-11-2008, 08:32 PM
We have been cursed with on of the best Nelson dist. just one mile from our shop so I would say that 30% to 40% of the systems we service started as Nelson it can make for some boring service just swapping out heads because the covers are gone or no retraction

AI Inc
07-11-2008, 08:36 PM
As the saying goes, the more a service call sucks , the bigger the bill.

Mike Leary
07-11-2008, 09:07 PM
As the saying goes, the more a service call sucks , the bigger the bill.

Not really, I looked at one today, sucked so bad I bailed.

irritation
07-11-2008, 11:38 PM
We have been cursed with on of the best Nelson dist. just one mile from our shop so I would say that 30% to 40% of the systems we service started as Nelson it can make for some boring service just swapping out heads because the covers are gone or no retraction

That's gotta suck. Nelson makes Toro look good.
If I get a service call with Nelson rotors I triple the bill.

Wet_Boots
07-11-2008, 11:51 PM
I slowly transform a Nelson system into PGPs

AI Inc
07-12-2008, 07:39 AM
Not really, I looked at one today, sucked so bad I bailed.

Funny about 8 yrs ago it was a Saturday and both my partner and I were out selling. Between calls I called him on the nextel and asked him if he ever just walked away. He laughed and said no , but there are some I wish I had. My next sales call was an add on estimate for a system that the HO installed. 3/4 toro valves , shitty water pressure and ledge blast everywhere. Told the lead, " Im realy not interested"

Waterit
07-12-2008, 11:27 AM
ledge blast everywhere.

What is "ledge blast"?

Only one I ever walked away from was a HUD development - 40 zones of misery, compounded by absence of any plans for property. Add in the fact that ALL of the staff carried guns for personal protection, and we were informed that even the police wouldn't enter after 3PM without backup.

Wet_Boots
07-12-2008, 11:59 AM
What is "ledge blast"?

Only one I ever walked away from was a HUD development - 40 zones of misery, compounded by absence of any plans for property. Add in the fact that ALL of the staff carried guns for personal protection, and we were informed that even the police wouldn't enter after 3PM without backup.I think he means the kind of homesite that wouldn't exist but for dynamite. More rubble than soil. I've worked in a few of those, and loved them not.

Wet_Boots
07-12-2008, 01:28 PM
I don't understand you boots.

R-50's, and Toro 300's were the least reliable heads I've ever worked with. I've had more 300's that fail to work out of the box than any other head. A nozzle swap is all they ever need, but then because their nozzles are 60% of the heads, I consider that a full failure. Additionally, they cannot handle any debris in the line, or they stop spinning.

A far too temperamental head for my taste.

We had an entire subdivision that someone had done with R-50's that we would replace a head or two with a PGP on a weekly basis.If I install a system, and it needs no heads replaced for ten years, I figure they were reliable heads. I could say that for a system with Toro 300s. I could say that for the R-50 systems I installed. (City water) I could say that for Safe-T-Lawn ball drive rotors, and probably up the time frame to twenty years.

Can I make the same claim for PGPs, or S700s, or 5004s, or Maxipaws? Not that I've observed.

Mike Leary
07-12-2008, 01:35 PM
My grandfather owned Studebakers all his life, claimed the dealer got him "Wednesday
Cars" 'cause he was such a good customer. I wonder if contractors are treated the same?

Wet_Boots
07-12-2008, 02:00 PM
I was thinking that maybe R-50s worked for me because "they knew" they were in the hands of someone who understood ball drives. I did make one concession to reliability, and used the LP (low pressure) stator setting for whenever I used the smallest 1.5 nozzle, since I didn't have complete trust in the rotor on the 1.5 stator setting.

Mike Leary
07-12-2008, 06:31 PM
"they knew" they were in the hands of someone who understood ball drives.

That could be said for a few of us that have had no problems with certain
brands, & others had nothing but problems. "Sprinkler Whisperers".

AI Inc
07-13-2008, 07:55 AM
I think he means the kind of homesite that wouldn't exist but for dynamite. More rubble than soil. I've worked in a few of those, and loved them not.

Thats exactly what I mean. When used as backfill its called rip rap. All it is is the remains of ledge that has been dynomited. Working in it is about as fun as getting a vasectomy with a chain saw.