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lowvolumejeff
07-11-2008, 04:57 PM
Homeowner has groundwater spring(s) piped to an underground 750 gallon cistern. He wants to use it to irrigate his lawn and shrub beds. The cistern is a length of concrete conduit and is placed horizontally. It is 18 " to the top of the water in the cistern, and about 4 feet to the bottom. The empty cistern recharges in about 3 hours. The suction head is 5 feet. The maximum discharge head is 20 feet. The water recharging is remarkably clear, however there is a fine silt buildup at the bottom of the cistern.

questions:

1) what type and HP pump would you recommend?

2) What type of filtration?

3) What type of spray heads should I use?

Thanks in advance. Jeff

Mike Leary
07-11-2008, 05:01 PM
Find out what the recharge is before you get carried away, 750 is not much storage.
You'll need a clock that has multiple programs/delay between zones or ISC.
It's tricky, but it can be done.

lowvolumejeff
07-11-2008, 06:09 PM
Thanks mike. The recharge rate is 3 hours. Jeff

Mike Leary
07-11-2008, 07:01 PM
Missed the point..got to figure the re-charge vs. the demand. Roughly, I have one with
a 6gpm charge...got some big demand turf zones....for every 20 min of run, rest 1 hour.
Get my drift?

lowvolumejeff
07-11-2008, 07:39 PM
Missed the point..got to figure the re-charge vs. the demand. Roughly, I have one with
a 6gpm charge...got some big demand turf zones....for every 20 min of run, rest 1 hour.
Get my drift?

Mike: Not sure I understand. I may be approaching this incorrectly. Here is an attempt to explain my thinking (a dangerous undertaking - at best). If I design the system based on , say 6 GPM, with recharge, that would let me run it approximately 75 minutes (350 gallons in catchment plus recharge of almost 100 gallons). For practical (and fudge factor insurance) I would probably only run it for 60 minutes. Boots recommended Maxipaws in another thread with silty water supply, so if I wanted to, I could run 4 with a 07 LA @ 25 PSI for an hour, let the cachment recharge, and run another zone in 3 hours. I plan to sell him on a WM SL1600 with all the whistles and bells.

I am hoping for other options as to which spray heads to use. Think what i could do with MP's and proper filtration. Also, I am aware that increasing the PSI, throws my plan off as at 35 PSI the same head increases output by 0.4 GPM. Of course this allows me to use 3 heads per zone = more zones, and I can sell him more modules,etc..

Thanks for your help, it is appreciated. Jeff

Dirty Water
07-11-2008, 08:00 PM
Your recharge rate is roughly 4 GPM (750 gallons / 180 minutes).

If you shoot for a reasonable 10 GPM, You'll get an easy 75 minutes of watering with the water currently in the tank, During that time, the recharge will bring in an additional 570 gallons, so you have a 240 gallon buffer.

This leaves you with a 2 hour recharge time to bring the tank back full.

I'd set it up to water on odd/even days and have a one hour delay between rotor zones. On sprayheads pushing 10 GPM you probably don't need to much of a refill delay, maybe 15 minutes.

I'd run Rainbird 1800's, avoid VAN nozzles as they clog easily. I'd also add a rusco spindown silt screen on the pump output.

Mike Leary
07-11-2008, 09:02 PM
Something you can't avoid with cistern systems is daytime runs, I try to run drip &
shade spray zones then.

lowvolumejeff
07-12-2008, 02:08 AM
Well, DUH. Should have known recharge rate expressed as GPM would clearify things. As you can see, I don't do wells. Interested in learning more however.

Has anyone a suggestion for pump size and type? Jeff

Dirty Water
07-12-2008, 02:22 AM
A small one :)

I'm not a pump expert, perhaps Wet Boots can weigh in, otherwise I usually trust the local pump guy to pick the appropriate pump when I can give him the lift, desired GPM and pressure.

Some how this thread has ended up being entirely pacific northwest people. Odd.

Wet_Boots
07-12-2008, 07:34 AM
I think you wind up using some midget jet pump, and a lot of zones. One basic question, is the 4 gpm enough to water the areas desired. (If it's more than an acre, forget the whole thing)

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-12-2008, 09:13 AM
I think you wind up using some midget jet pump, and a lot of zones. One basic question, is the 4 gpm enough to water the areas desired. (If it's more than an acre, forget the whole thing)

This is a PAC NW conversation Boots. Now you've added some personality to the whole thing. way to go.:clapping::p

Wet_Boots
07-12-2008, 09:20 AM
This is a PAC NW conversation Boots. Now you've added some personality to the whole thing. way to go.:clapping::pOh, sorry. Y'know, one wonders why they're so big on premium coffee and prozac up thereabouts.

Waterit
07-12-2008, 11:39 AM
Oh, sorry. Y'know, one wonders why they're so big on premium coffee and prozac up thereabouts.

Let's not forget they also gave the world Jimi Hendrix and the Space Needle.

Dirty Water
07-12-2008, 11:46 AM
Let's not forget they also gave the world Jimi Hendrix and the Space Needle.

And the 747, and the computer your using, and a host of other rock acts (Nirvana anyone?)

:)

Mike Leary
07-12-2008, 12:03 PM
And the 747, and the computer your using, and a host of other rock acts (Nirvana anyone?)

:)

How about Quincy Jones and The Ventures?

Wet_Boots
07-12-2008, 12:03 PM
I'll take the coffee, you can keep the rest. I prefer an Earth-friendly computerhttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:sFLc1hL3WhAlYM:http://gregplaysbass.com/images_index/abacus-1-AJHD.jpg

lowvolumejeff
07-12-2008, 01:54 PM
OK, before this thread goes away, maybe someone can help me choose a type and HP of the pump needed. Thanks Boots for thje suggestion of a small jet pump and lots of zones. The property has a total of 3700 sq. ft of grass, and 50 sq ft of shrubs. So, not a large lot.

Can anyone suggest a pump type, nmanufacturer, and size I should use. Thanks, Jeff

Wet_Boots
07-12-2008, 02:15 PM
I've used a Goulds J5SH for low-flow applications. It gets higher pressure at lower flows than a standard 1/2 HP jet pump, and is one of the few pumps I'd trust in an exposed outdoor mounting. They have an interior diaphragm that keeps the pump primed.

lowvolumejeff
07-12-2008, 02:47 PM
I've used a Goulds J5SH for low-flow applications. It gets higher pressure at lower flows than a standard 1/2 HP jet pump, and is one of the few pumps I'd trust in an exposed outdoor mounting. They have an interior diaphragm that keeps the pump primed.

Thanks Boots, that is what I need. Anyone else have suggestions? Jeff

Mike Leary
07-12-2008, 02:58 PM
[QUOTE=lowvolumejeff;2415259 Anyone else have suggestions? Jeff[/QUOTE]

Yup, one more before we wreck the thread: I think you're sailing into
un-charted waters with a sugar paddle. Consider finding a pump guy that has
experience with this sort of lash-up as you'll need a pump-start relay, too.:)

Waterit
07-12-2008, 03:51 PM
I'll take the coffee, you can keep the rest. I prefer an Earth-friendly computer

Here in NW FLA (that stands for Freakin' Lower Alabama) that'd've been a picture of your feet.


OK, before this thread goes away

Oops, too late! Sorry!

DW, I was trying to avoid thinking about Eddie Vedder. But we did get Chris Cornell out of the grunge:clapping:

Mike Leary
07-12-2008, 04:07 PM
This is a PAC NW conversation Boots. Now you've added some personality to the whole thing. way to go.:clapping::p

At least we manifold.

Wet_Boots
07-12-2008, 04:10 PM
The property has a total of 3700 sq. ft of grass, and 50 sq ft of shrubs. So, not a large lot.You know, when you think about it, 3700 sq ft is about the coverage of a single full-circle rotor spraying 35 ft ~ it would not be beyond the realm of possibility to do this as a single zone, and match the pump to the design. You could run 15 gpm for an hour, and not empty the full cistern.

Mike Leary
07-12-2008, 04:24 PM
it would not be beyond the realm of possibility to do this as a single zone

Reads like a line from a Mickey Rooney/Judy Garland film. :p

Wet_Boots
07-12-2008, 04:36 PM
Reads like a line from a Mickey Rooney/Judy Garland film. :pI thought their line was "Let's do a show!!"

Mike Leary
07-12-2008, 05:03 PM
I thought their line was "Let's do a show!!

Yup.........www.youtube.com/watch?v=loTnVc-uhQM

lowvolumejeff
07-12-2008, 05:10 PM
Yes, boots, not a big area, but has split up layout, with a back and front yard, a multilevel (just so somebody doesnt recommend spraying over it) a house inbetween, and a driveway strip. To compound it, The back yard is 10 feet lower in elevation than the front, but I think I can easily compensate for the change in head with more (or bigger) nozzels. Boots, thanks for your input.

Are there any other pump recopmmondations out there? Jeff

Mike Leary
07-12-2008, 05:16 PM
pump recopmmondations

Nope, except the spelling nazi. :hammerhead:

Wet_Boots
07-12-2008, 05:35 PM
You figure out your system first, then worry about a pump.

Mike Leary
07-12-2008, 05:48 PM
You figure out your system first, then worry about a pump.

East meets West.:clapping::clapping:

Wet_Boots
07-12-2008, 05:52 PM
East meets West.:clapping::clapping:No-brainer, since any pump will draw down the cistern, so let the system layout suggest the gpm needed, then go shopping.

Mike Leary
07-12-2008, 06:03 PM
No-brainer, since any pump will draw down the cistern, so let the system layout suggest the gpm needed, then go shopping.

I know better than to suggest on-demand for fear guess who will surface.

Wet_Boots
07-12-2008, 06:32 PM
You could go all sprays (all-brass, even!) and use a centrifugal pump, with its flat performance curve. If you can equalize the zone flows and precipitation rates, that will simplify the programming.

Mike Leary
07-12-2008, 06:38 PM
(all-brass, even!)

Yep, I like that kind of talk, though I notice the guy that bought my biz is
using RB plastic.:cry:

Wet_Boots
07-12-2008, 06:49 PM
Yep, I like that kind of talk, though I notice the guy that bought my biz is
using RB plastic.:cry:I wonder what a brass popup spray costs now. Must be at least 20 years since anyone demanded I install all-brass sprayheads.

Mike Leary
07-12-2008, 06:58 PM
I wonder what a brass popup spray costs now. Must be at least 20 years since anyone demanded I install all-brass sprayheads.

As I recall, I billed out a WM brass for about $3.00. The coolest f.c riser head
in the world, the 105, went for about $4.00. Sad day when brass nozzles end.

Wet_Boots
07-12-2008, 07:28 PM
Buckner has an online price list - twenty-seven bucks for a brass popup spray.

Mike Leary
07-12-2008, 07:46 PM
The glory days of all brass are gone, the nozzle days are prolly numbered.
They don't mow with reel mowers, (twice to get the pattern) anymore.

lowvolumejeff
07-12-2008, 09:00 PM
The glory days of all brass are gone, the nozzle days are prolly numbered.
They don't mow with reel mowers, (twice to get the pattern) anymore.

"prolly" ???

Despite that. Thanks for everybodies help. Yes, I can design a system baed on available flow. That was never an issue. The original questions:

1) what type and HP pump would you recommend?

2) What type of filtration?

3) What type of spray heads should I use?


Boots helped with pump, filtration, and sprayhead suggestions....THANK YOU....

So, with silty water and filtration Boots suggested, would you go brass?

Thanks to all that have helped. Jeff

Mike Leary
07-12-2008, 10:16 PM
[QUOTE=lowvolumejeff;2415657]"prolly" ??? I can design a system baed
"Prolly" comes from a good friend that no longer posts here; I use it in his
memory. You're a time waster, pal.

Mike Leary
07-12-2008, 10:20 PM
"prolly" ???

A term I picked up from a former hi-poster, who had a clue.

Wet_Boots
07-12-2008, 10:34 PM
"prolly" ???

Despite that. Thanks for everybodies help. Yes, I can design a system baed on available flow. That was never an issue. The original questions:

1) what type and HP pump would you recommend?

2) What type of filtration?

3) What type of spray heads should I use?


Boots helped with pump, filtration, and sprayhead suggestions....THANK YOU....

So, with silty water and filtration Boots suggested, would you go brass?

Thanks to all that have helped. JeffSo go to work and design your system, and create a clear layout, with pipe and heads laid out, with all the zones using an equal amount of water, more or less, then post it here.

If you can't do that, then maybe you aren't ready for this job.

lowvolumejeff
07-12-2008, 11:13 PM
So sorry if I insulted you. Not my intention. I value your sage advice, and wished to tap it. Definitely don't want to waste anybodies time. Thanks to all that contribute. Jeff

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-12-2008, 11:21 PM
Hey I think you are hungry boots. LVJ ignore and post. I did an agrifim courtyard today. Pretty happy with results and plant choices were excellent as well and knowing the Lscaper and her knowing my style. I love drip when I can trust the situation.

Anyway smoking pork rib racks and thighs/sausage so as to not waste good burning wood. Also cooking/smoking a deer backstrap. No seasoning just want to try the meat unflavored for taste evaluation.

Wet_Boots
07-12-2008, 11:35 PM
I'm trying to make the point that this cistern system is all over the map. Pin down the system details, and advice to the point can result. All I can contribute with what's been given, is that I like Goulds pumps. Big whoop. You might not have any space for rotors, but do we know that?

GIGO

Mike Leary
07-12-2008, 11:44 PM
I like Goulds pumps. Big whoop.

Yup, ditto...maybe Jr. will do some homework.